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Mayor Eric Adams: We are releasing our blueprints to end gun violence. I want to be clear, this is not just a plan for the future, it is a plan for right now. Gun violence is a public health crisis. There's no time to wait. We must act.

Brian Lehrer: We must act. Mayor Adams announcing his blueprint to end gun violence yesterday. A collection of plans and proposals most of which he ran on in his campaign so would not be completely new if you've been paying attention, but that he is moving up the announcement of because of the headline acts of violence that have greeted his first weeks in office. Here's the first minute of the mayor's speech.

Mayor Eric Adams: In my three weeks as your mayor, I have been with an officer who was shot in the head as he slept in his own car, I have met with a mother of a 19-year-old girl who was killed as she worked the night shift in East Harlem. I had been at the bedside of a police officer who was shot by a 16-year-old as they struggled for a gun. I have seen a topless blood-stained pink jacket in the street. I have held hands and prayed with a mother, that 11-month-old baby was shot in the head by a gunman who didn't care where those bullets went. On Friday night, two officers were ambushed when they answered a domestic violence call.

The suspect had a 45 caliber in his hand and a loaded assault rifle under his mattress.

Brian Lehrer: Mayor Adams then went on to announce specific things, some more controversial than others depending on where you sit. A big summer jobs program for young New Yorkers, uncontroversial. Expanded mental health services and life coaching for at-risk teens and young adults, uncontroversial. A residency requirement for NYPD officers, that'll be controversial with a union. Asking Washington for help with gun trafficking from out of state, uncontroversial here, very controversial with Mitch McConnell. New plain clothes anti-gun officers could be called neighborhood safety units, controversial here because of the way such units have behaved in the past.

The mayor says they will basically be in plain clothes, but also wear something that identifies them as cops. We'll get into those differences. Allowing judges for the first time to keep people accused of crimes in jail based on the judge's perception of their dangerousness, controversial in the state legislature at very least. Lowering the age at which teenagers can be charged as adults for carrying an illegal weapon from 18 back to 16-years-old to be charged as an adult. Here is the mayor on that.

Mayor Eric Adams: Far too many men above the age of 18 are victimizing children, are forcing them to carry the weapons. This is evidenced by the statistics. In 2019, 2.5% of all youths under 18 who were arrested had a firearm. In 2021, that number was 10%. Children are being used as pawns. If a 16 or 17-year-old is arrested on a gun charge, the NYPD should ask the individual where they got the gun from. If the individual refuses to disclose that information, prosecutors should have the ability to charge the individual in criminal court rather than family court.

Brian Lehrer: Mayor Adams yesterday. Listeners, we invite your reactions to the mayor's anti-gun violence blueprint from any neighborhood in New York. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. With us now, the new Bronx Borough President, Vanessa Gibson. She has appeared with the mayor several times since Friday night's police shooting. Before being elected Borough President, she was in City Council for two terms, including one as chair of the Public Safety Committee. Borough President, you were on one time after your election on a day that I was out. I haven't gotten to personally congratulate you on your election. I've appreciated your previous appearances on the show as a City Council member. Congratulations from me, and welcome back to WNYC.

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: Thank you so much, Brian. Happy New Year to you and I'm so glad to be back on your show.

Brian Lehrer: Before we get your reaction to the mayor's specific proposals, can you describe for our listeners how you see the violent crime situation in the Bronx, and how that's changed during the pandemic?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: I see it as a state of emergency, as a call to action and attention. It's been very painful and heartbreaking during my short tenure as the Borough President four weeks in now just seeing a wave of violence, including an 11-month-old baby shot while sitting in her car seat with her mom. It's very painful to see a police officer in Belmont shot in the line of duty. Thankfully, both police officer and 11-month-old baby Catherine are going to be okay. We know that residents and families in the Bronx are no strangers to the plague of gun violence. The gun trafficking, the over-proliferation of guns, the overabundance of supply of guns in our borough has really been alarming.

As the Borough President, it's my job, my responsibility to build a collective of all stakeholders to make sure that we address gun violence, we address trafficking, but we also reimagine public safety from a very holistic perspective. In addition to dealing with violence, my job has been very challenging as you know because we had a five-alarm fire three weeks ago in the Fordham Heights community that claimed the lives of 17 neighbors, and we also had a building explosion in Longwood. It's been very busy Brian, and I'm so thankful to New Yorkers and fellow Bronx sites for the overwhelming love and support extended to their neighbors during the greatest time of need.

Brian Lehrer: Residents in the Bronx, call in, talk to your Borough President, specifically about violent crime in your neighborhood and what you would like to see done about it, and what you would not like to see done about it for that matter. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, not like to see done about it when you think the cure is worse than the disease. 212-433-9692, from the Bronx or anywhere else on this topic, or tweet @BrianLehrer for the Bronx Borough President Vanessa Gibson. Well, the mayor talks about how 80% of the serious crimes are committed in just 30 of the 77 NYPD precincts. How much do you think that pertains to the Bronx and are there ones you would identify?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: I think it's a significant amount, Brian. I could tell you just in my time as an elected official, being in the City Council, I represented a precinct in the West Bronx, the 424446. PSA 7 are no stranger to a significant cycle of gun violence and dealing with unfortunately a number of crews operating in the Bronx. When I hear that number from Mayor Adams, I know that a majority of those precincts will be in the Bronx, in the South Bronx, in the West Bronx, in the central Bronx, and potentially the Northeast Bronx. It's going to be a majority of our 12 precincts. I think it's very telling, it means that there has been a systemic system that has really, really not been addressed.

We've not dealt with the long-term issues of why young people engage in violence in the first place, some of the root causes of why young people are involved in the criminal justice system. We believe the answer are jobs, holistic approaches, alternatives to incarceration, keeping people out of the system, not being reactionary, but being more preventative and focusing on prevention and not detention.

Brian Lehrer: You're talking about prevention, you're talking about root causes. The mayor has been very clear since Friday night, and really throughout his campaign, that he's talking about both short-term solutions to get crime down right now, that would be things more on the streets, and some of these longer-term economic and social justice issues, but can he balance the two? I guess that's one of the big questions right now. Here's another clip of the mayor from yesterday's speech. Let me get your reaction.

Mayor Eric Adams: We will start by putting more officers on patrol in key neighborhoods throughout the city. We will enhance existing public safety units with new neighborhood safety teams which will focus on gun violence.

Brian Lehrer: First of all, Borough President, do you want more police officers in the Bronx? You know some progressives would say that's the old solution that does as much to ruin lives by over-policing as it does to stop violent crime.

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: I think, Brian, that Mayor Adams and all of us have a task of achieving a very delicate balance in what public safety looks like. I think for many residents in our borough, public safety means the deployment of more police officers, more of a presence on the ground, seeing the beat cop, the officer that you know by first name that knows you. I think for many residents, younger generation, it means anti-gun violence organizations, it means a crisis management system, it means community centers and safe spaces and jobs like some youth. I think it's a combination of all. I don't think this is a one size fits all approach.

We know that the deployment of more cops as the only solution is not the right approach. If that was the approach, then we would not have the wave of crime we have today. We know there are other elements that have to be incorporated when you talk about reimagining public safety. I think, as I said, it's a combination of all factors and all elements and really striking a very delicate balance. We don't want to be regressive in rolling back a lot of great initiatives that we've seen success from, but we know that some things may need to be tweaked. Nothing is perfect and no idea through the legislative process ever ends on a perfect note.

There are multiple factors. The court system, the prosecutors, the DA, the NYPD law enforcement, clergy, elected officials. There's so many players in this entire conversation and everyone's role is important, but I think we just have to find that balance. I'm going to be working with Mayor Adams and working with all of our stakeholders because I will not accept the wave of violence in this borough. I will not accept 11-month-old babies being shot in car seats in our borough. People are telling me all the time they don't feel safe. Small businesses are being vandalized. Supermarkets are being robbed and they don't feel safe.

We have to get people to a place where we know, not only do they have to feel safe but they have to believe their neighborhoods are safe. It's about perception and reality of what public safety means.

Brian Lehrer: One of the other proposals that we played a clip of from the mayor, lower the age for some gun crimes back to 16, treating those younger teenagers as adults again in the justice system as they used to be before the Raise the Age reforms. You heard him say in that clip if they won't give up people up the chain wherever they got the gun from, then they should be treated as adults for illegal gun possession. Do you want the Bronx to go back to that?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: I think that we passed Raise the Age in the state legislature for a reason. New York and North Carolina were the only two states that continued to prosecute young adults as adults. I think we did it for a very important reason. Now, I understand that there are some concerns about the magnitude of this implementation, but I also think that young people as victims of a crime, as witnesses of a crime, are very hesitant to come forward for a myriad of reasons, Brian.

Number one, they have to live in these communities. Number two, there's something called retaliation where if you come forward as a victim of a crime or a witness, your life is in danger and so is that of your family. We can't relocate every single family that we would like to. We can't transfer schools as quickly as we would like to, but the reality is many of our young people are fearful to come forward because of retaliation and retribution. We have to get over that. We have to make them feel at ease and conceal their identity and make sure that their safety is protected if they're going to come forward because if you come forward as a witness, it's not just the beginning of the process.

You have to go all the way through potentially a trial if the case goes to trial. A lot of young people tell me all the time, "Ms. Gibson, I know who did it, the streets always talk, but snitches get stitches and that's the code of the streets." I think that's a reality for our young adults. Until we get over that, we're going to continue to have a resistance on the part of young people coming forward. I think we have to be very delicate in looking at any changes to Raise the Age. We have to work closely with our legislative leaders in Albany and the Assembly and the Senate, and we have to make sure that it is the right balanced approach.

Brian Lehrer: You're saying there are ways to lower the age but there are ways not to?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: Yes, correct.

Brian Lehrer: Judges' discretion to jail defendants they perceive as dangerous rather than let them out with or without bail, good idea according to you? New York has never had that discretion for judges to just jail somebody on the basis of dangerousness.

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: Right. This goes along the same lines of bail reform and how bail has been used as a financial mechanism to really suppress a lot of Black and brown New Yorkers and the system of mass incarceration that we've seen for generations. This is nothing new following the Rockefeller Drug Laws that occurred years ago in the Assembly and Senate. I think that judges have a lot of tools in their toolbox, and for many reasons, judges are not always using those tools.

I think the messaging has to be much much better. When bail reform was codified in 2020, I think on the ground, a lot of residents did not understand what it meant and they used it as a mechanism to blame and use that as a reason for the cause of the increase in violence. I think our legislative leaders and my colleagues in Albany, we have to really do the messaging on the ground. We have to engage these businesses and merchants and those that don't feel safe to assure them, number one, of what we've done with bail reform. If there are instances where we have to go back and make revisions, what are those minor revisions?

What are we going to do to keep everyone safe that does not roll back any of the progress that we have made? Because even though people have been critical of bail reform, we have to acknowledge the majority of the young men and women of color that are out on bail do not recidivate, do not get rearrested, do not go back to prison, and are actually in our community and are productive members of our communities. I think we have to acknowledge that. Is that the case for every single individual? Absolutely not.

To me, this work is about balance and I think we have to work with the office of court administration and making sure that judges understand all the tools that they have in their toolbox and resources and look at a case in its totality.

Brian Lehrer: Again, yes to the mayor's plan if it's well done, but how much do you trust judges to frankly not make racist determinations, not to see young people of color in particular as more dangerous than they might be or than they might see a white kid or white young adult who committed the same crime?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: Right, and I agree with that. It's a level of trust and a level of confidence of the members of our judiciary. I think for many young adults, it's a long history. A very painful history of mass incarceration and of just being judged by the color of your skin and your ethnicity and not by your individual potential case. Young people deserve second and third chances because many of them have not been given a first chance. As I said earlier, if we do not address the root causes of why young adults engage in violence in the first place, then we are continuously going down a very destructive path of not ensuring that everyone is given a fair shot.

I think our judges come to the table with a great deal of credibility and experience, those that are sitting in criminal court and Supreme Court. Many judges are elected, some are appointed by the mayor, and I know the mayor's been very clear on reappointments of his judges. I think we have to have a level of trust but we also have to make sure that OCA is working closely with law enforcement and prosecutors on training. Making sure that as we introduce new laws that are implemented, judges are carrying out and enforcing those laws but they understand what the laws mean and they're following those laws. We have to make sure that the training is there, it's comprehensive.

To me, there's a lot more work that needs to be done, and with the rollout of this new public safety initiative, it really gives Mayor Adams a chance to create a blueprint that addresses the issues, that gets to the core of why we are addressing public safety in this way, mutual common goals with the same priorities, but also a real engaging conversation of all stakeholders that must be involved in this dialogue.

Brian Lehrer: My guest if you're just joining us is the Bronx Borough President Vanessa Gibson. Like the mayor, she's only been in office a few weeks. She has been appearing with the mayor the last few days on several occasions since the police shooting in the Bronx to talk about crime and criminal justice and criminal justice reform, as well as the crackdown on crime. Of course, the Bronx was the scene of that horrible shooting.

In addition, so many other horrible crimes that don't become headlines but some do, sometimes because of the victim, sometimes because of the perpetrator, whatever, but that horrible one where an 11-month-old baby that you probably all heard about was shot in the Bronx by a stray bullet just recently. We are getting Bronx Borough President Vanessa Gibson's reactions to the mayor's anti-gun crime blueprint that he released yesterday including some of the controversial proposals. Vanessa Gibson was also chair of the City Council Public Safety Committee for one of her two terms in council before becoming Borough President. Listeners, be patient.

We're going to go to your calls in a couple of minutes, but also joining us for a few minutes is David Caba, senior program director of the group Bronx Rises Against Gun Violence headquartered on Fordham Road, part of the larger community nonprofit called Good Shepherd Services. David, thanks so much for coming on. Welcome to WNYC.

David Caba: Thank you, Brian, appreciate the opportunity.

Brian Lehrer: For people unfamiliar with the whole concept of what's called cure violence groups, I see you consider yours to be one, so what is a cure violence group?

David Caba: Well, a cure violence group is credible messengers that come from these very communities that are highly impacted by gun violence and use that credibility to influence young people to move away from aggressive violent behavior towards peaceful conflict resolutions and better lifestyles that will benefit the community in the long term. The model has three parts to it. Part one is to mediate and interrupt conflicts on the spot in the communities during the hours where it most likely takes place, which is usually in the evening towards the early morning towards the later part of the week.

The second part of it is to bring these young individuals that are involved in these high-risk activities into our program and provide them with all the resources and the service that we have, provide them mentoring to get them to move in that right direction. The third part is a major public education campaign because the cure violence model basically states that this is a public health issue. Violence spreads like a contagion and it goes from the older to the younger and it gets perpetuated and systematized where it permeates the community over years and years of a period. It's a three parts credible message that is strongly effective in what they do and it is a workforce that's unlike any you've ever seen.

Brian Lehrer: Do you work with the police? Do you ever feel like the police are getting in the way of the work that you're trying to do because they sort of don't get it on some level about the community?

David Caba: No, we don't work with the police. We have a relationship in which we do what we do and law enforcement does what they do. My job as a senior director is to ensure that the commanding officer of the precincts that we're in understand who we are, what we look like, what area they're going to find us in, and we're basically in hotspots on a regular basis because that's part of the job, and what are our approach is to stemming the violence in our communities. It's a mutual respect thing, so they do what they do and we conduct our program in the way that we do that.

One of the things that I have to make sure of when we first started in the 46 Precinct, for example, is to get the commander to understand that utilizing data, we identify the area that's most impacted in the 46 Precinct with gun violence over three to five years, and that's where we're going to hire our credible messengers from, deploy them, and work in those areas, and the days and the hours we're going to be there.

To my amazement, the commander that I did encounter was a progressive commander that understood what we were trying to do and literally said to us, "You're in the worst part of my impact zone, and here's the information I can give you understanding that there's no information coming back in this direction." We'll be out there doing this work, interrupting conflicts on a nightly basis, dozens of them that can easily turn into stabbings and shootings and what you've seen currently in our borough.

Brian Lehrer: When you talk about interrupting, this is a phrase that people have heard violence interrupters and again, a lot of people may not know what that means. They might think well, if there's an act of violence in progress, it only takes a split second to fire a gun or something like that, so you can't get in the middle of that at that point, so how does a violence interrupter interrupt violence?

David Caba: Great question. A violence interrupter is somebody who used to be that young person engaging in these high-risk activities, involved in violent street organizations, et cetera, et cetera. They suffered the consequences of that lifestyle and we all know what those are, incarceration, loss of employment, you name it, and the final one is, unfortunately, the loss of life, but those of us that are engaged in this work in B.R.A.G, Bronx Rises Against Gun Violence, we suffered those consequences, took a good look at our lifestyles, and realized that if we continue, we will end up like a lot of our family members and friends, and so we decided to make that change. However, we never moved out of the community.

We still live there. Our family still live there, our aunts and uncles, so on and so forth. The young people coming up behind us remember who we used to be and what our fame was, if I can call it at that, and because of that, they listen to us. When the time comes that let's say at two o'clock in the morning, one person is pointing a weapon at another person, it has to be someone from that community, it has to be someone that's credible, that's experienced in knowing what that's like because then that young person will turn and listen to what they have to say before they actually pull that trigger. That is the effectiveness of a credible messenger, a violence interrupter.

They can't be a stranger that comes from some other part of town to try to get them to put that weapon down. What'll happen to that individual is the weapon will be turned on them and they'll be asked, "Who are you?" Now, you put yourself in a dangerous situation, but with our credible messengers, they're already going to know JC. They're already going to know Love. They're already going to know [unintelligible 00:25:24] because they [unintelligible 00:25:25].

They know David Caba, they know [unintelligible 00:25:27], for example, and they'll go, "What you doing here?" I'm like, "Listen, before you pull that trigger, let me holla at you for a second because you about to take a path that you're not going to be able to come back from." That is the essence of a violence interrupter.

Brian Lehrer: Borough President Gibson, I imagine you know David Caba Caba from Bronx Rises Against Gun Violence. Do you want to say anything to him or about him or the place of groups like his in the efforts to come?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: Absolutely. Yes, I know David Caba and B.R.A.G very well. They are a part of our crisis management system, credible messages on the ground in the Bronx that I believe are doing God's work. They are interrupting violence, preventing violence, giving young people safe spaces, mentoring them, giving them jobs, keeping them out of the streets, out of the system, and really saving their lives. This work is not easy. They're on the ground every day, hospital responders, outreach workers, violence interrupters with no vests, no guns, no pepper spray, but just the power of their voices and their credibility that is capturing young people in a real significant way.

Mayor Adams realizes the value of CMS and we had a meeting last weekend in the Bronx and I'm so grateful that B.R.A.G, S.O.S, Guns Down Life Up, so many other organizations across the five boroughs that are really a family. We work together no matter where violence is and I love that. If I need soldiers in the Bronx to join B.R.A.G and S.O.S, guess what? [unintelligible 00:26:58], man up, G Mac, they're all coming to the Bronx to stand shoulder to shoulder with us. That's what I love.

Mayor Adams is going to not only give them support, expand their capacity so that they can hire more staff and more credible messengers so we can continue to occupy the blocks and streets and meet young people where they are so they do not become a victim of their circumstance but rather they can be success stories.

Brian Lehrer: Would that be public funds? The city coffers that that would fund hiring more people for groups like David's, which I know is from a private social services organization because I saw you used to be Public Safety Committee chair and City Council, I saw the current Public Safety Committee chair on TV last night on NY1 say the problem with talking about cure violence is a matter of scale, that these are great groups but there aren't enough to go around. Is that a part of the mayor's plan as you understand it to throw a lot of city money at scaling up groups like David's?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: Yes. It means investing further in their vision. It means allowing them the capacity to grow beyond their catchment area so they can hire more outreach workers and staff on the ground. It means identifying a dedicated anti-gun violence liaison in every city agency that oversees the crisis management system, and I think that's very important because many of our CMS partners last weekend talked about bureaucratic red tape. They talked about contracts that are not expedited, not being paid on time, and obviously, wanting to grow beyond their catchment but really needing the support from city hall to do so.

I believe Mayor Adams believes in that concept and he's going to put money where his commitment is and that will be reflected in this budget.

Brian Lehrer: David, before you go, is there a story you could tell us? It sounds like you were talking to some degree about yourself and your own background when you were talking about your group in general before. I don't know if you want to tell us a story of yourself either how you got into this movement or well, maybe one particular moment when you or somebody else in your group actually staged a successful intervention to interrupt violence?

David Caba: 100%, and I want to thank the Borough President for her words. She's been on the ground in the streets with us for many, many years prior to being the Borough President, so thank you for that Borough President Gibson. I got a story for you that actually involves a young person when we first started years ago in like 2014. Brad was brand new. We had this young person that was calling one of our violence interrupters on a regular basis, calling him incessantly, incessantly, when he finally reach back out, and this was on a Monday, and we don't work on Sundays and Mondays because a lot of the things happen towards the end of the week, Tuesday through Saturday into Sunday morning.

He finally called the young person back, went to go get him, and brought him to the office. When I spoke to the violence interrupter, he explained to me that when he got to the community where this young person was, it was him and about 15 to 20 other young people that were getting prepared to basically retaliate for what had happened the previous weekend to one of their other members who had, unfortunately, suffered a serious stabbing. This young person was really scared, about 18, 19 years old, and was terrified, come to learn that this young person had just moved here from Georgia.

The gang recruited him specifically because this individual had his driver's license, came from Georgia, and they will basically utilize this individual to travel down south to then return back with a cache of weapons for the violent street organization that he became part of through aggressive recruitment and threats. What we did was we made a full arrangement for this young person to get engaged in a stipend with a check for $2,000 upfront to begin the training that would eventually lead to full-time employment and move in the right direction. We created a portfolio, a folder, got him set up, everything was arranged.

What we also did was we made sure that we went back with this young person to the community because we knew they were going to be waiting for him afterwards. When we got back, what we found are a bunch of his colleagues who had broken bones, busted lips, slashing, cuts, you name it. They were obviously irate that this young person wasn't with them but when they saw our violence interrupter, they showed some respect because they remember who this person used to be and how influential that they currently still are.

When we open the folder and showed them all the paperwork, the training, specifically the $2,000 stipend check, after that, we got eight phone calls from his young brothers in that crew to come be part of B.R.A.G, and that was the beginning of B.R.A.G. This is what I mean about how this works. This also tells you the story about the proliferation of guns in our borough, which is something that I think needs to be talked about more and more on a city, state, and federal level.

Brian Lehrer: That is some story. David Caba, Senior Program Director of the group Bronx Rises Against Gun Violence, headquartered on Fordham Road, part of the larger community nonprofit called Good Shepherd Services. David, thank you for giving us a few minutes this morning. Good luck with your work.

David Caba: It's my pleasure. Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Borough President, if you have a few more minutes, we'll take a break and come back and take a few phone calls for you. Vanessa Gibson Bronx Borough President as we react to Mayor Adams' gun prevention speech yesterday here on WNYC.

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Mayor Eric Adams: NYPD is doing its job. Thousands of guns have been removed from the streets of the city of New York, thousands. Since being elected, over 300 guns were removed off our streets, but it appears as though for every one we take off the street, five find its way back on the street. We need help.

Brian Lehrer: Mayor Adams as we talk about his blueprint for ending gun violence in New York City with the Bronx Borough President Vanessa Gibson. Diallo in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in today.

Diallo: Hi, good morning. Thank you, Brian, for your show. I always listen to your show-

Brian Lehrer: Thank you.

Diallo: -and Ms. Gibson as well. The one thing I was going to say, I was opposed before during Bloomberg's time about the stop and frisk. I believe right now at this point, they need to bring that back on because the things that are going on in the Bronx is too much and we need more cops on the street. I support Ms. Gibson and the mayor. I'm a liberal guy, but I do support this policy. If any liberals are out there that are saying, "Oh, it's this or that," you come to the streets of the Bronx and live here and get to see what's going on. When I'm taking my kids to school, I'm always scared because everything is changing in the Bronx, it's utter lawlessness, people double parking. You can't even talk to your own neighbor.

It's not good. We need more cops on the street day and night.

Brian Lehrer: Diallo, thank you very much for chiming in. We're going to go right to another caller. Larry in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Larry.

Larry: Hi, good morning, Borough President, and congratulations, and good morning to you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Good morning to you, sir.

Larry: Brian, I have so much to say about this, so much to say, I don't know time will allow me. First shot, I think the mayor and borough president got to do things differently. They got to have [unintelligible 00:35:25] meetings. There's this thing that people think that when elected and appointed people have the answers to everything. Case in point Borough President Gibson at one time she wasn't an elected person, she had ideas. She has ideas. There's a lot of people out in the community who have ideas, so meeting up. The Borough President also need to have their own community [unintelligible 00:35:52] meeting and with law enforcement top brass and listen to the community.

Another thing is [unintelligible 00:36:00] about the church. Every [unintelligible 00:36:03] family, every young man whoever commits crime as a family. New York is a place of lots of churches and especially Black community, there's so many churches. Where are the church in this because religiously speaking, crimes are sin? Who is speaking to this aspect of it? Where's the church in terms of molding people to stay away from such things, not being dangerous to their fellow man, because it's a violation of the spiritual aspect of life.

Brian Lehrer: Larry, I'm going to have to leave it there because we're almost out of time in the segment. You put a couple of interesting things on the table. Please keep calling us. Borough President Gibson, two really very dramatic calls. Diallo from the Bronx who really had a change of heart over the recent years, and how much policing he wants in his Bronx neighborhood as he sees deterioration of the quality of life, at least as he described it. Larry, there talking about the role of church, the role of parents. What were you thinking during any of that?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: I have heard both concerns numerous times, Brian, and that's why I try to take a very balanced approach as the Borough President because I know that there are a lot of residents that want to see more cops. The police present is equal to safety for many of them but I also speak to young people that are scared of cops, and they don't want to see more cops because they feel harassed and stopped and frisked all the time. As I said, I think this work is really about balance. I want people to feel safe.

When you hear parents talk about the idea of not being able to walk down the street without fear of being attacked, remember, a few weeks ago last year, we had a 15-year-old walking to school in the North East Bronx that was shot, and all he was doing was walking to school, and thankfully, he's alive. This is the reality that we are facing in the Bronx every single day. We cannot lose sight of that. Something needs to be done. What that something is, is a comprehensive collaborative plan that includes everyone, and shout-out to my brother for including churches because I always talk about clergy and faith leaders.

I talk about the work outside the church doors, and not necessarily inside because a lot of people don't want to come to church. They don't feel safe coming to church. We need pastors and preachers and deacons to come out of the church and talk to our people in the streets, on the corners, on the blocks. We need to be able to meet young people where they are and be compassionate and be sympathetic, understand the history of stop, question, frisk, and mass incarceration, and the impact it has had on Black and brown communities. That's why this work has to be delicate, it has to be deliberate, it has to be collaborative, and I agree it has to include everyone.

Elected officials don't know it all, and neither do the cops and the DAs, but there are credible messengers on the ground, community boards, civic leaders, business leaders, merchants, educators, everyone has a role to play. I want to say to my Bronx sites that we all have a role to play. Join the local community board, be a part of your precinct council, be active with your PTA, with your CEC. Join us, be a part of the solution and not the problem. Your voice is important to empower our young people, to love on them. We need your community. We need you like never before. I'm really grateful for people stepping up in a real major way because when you see crisis, we step up.

We're resilient and we're strong as Bronx sites and I really thank so many people are coming to us and their commitment to working with us on this new journey as the Borough President.

Brian Lehrer: We had a colleague yesterday as a follow-up on that, who said, "Democrats don't want to talk about family breakdown as a root cause." Is that a third rail you don't want to touch?

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: I've touched it and I will touch it. I think a lot of our families need support. We need to empower parents, we need to work with our mothers and fathers because we know that our parents are the first educators in their children's lives. So many of our parents are struggling. One in two-parent households, single parents, struggling, going to school, raising their family, working, trying to provide stability, a roof over your head, food on the table, so it's important. We talk a lot of times about some of the warning signs that parents need to be aware of as it relates to their young people. Following them on social media, seeing what's happening in their lives, talking to young people.

Our parents need to be engaged, but we need to support them. I absolutely believe the role of family, the tradition of family is very important in this conversation.

Brian Lehrer: We'll continue to talk about this with our next guest here on the Brian Lehrer Show, City Council member Keith Powers who was chair of the Criminal Justice Committee last term is now the City Council Majority Leader. We'll see what City Council's role is in this after Mayor Adams announced his blueprint to end gun violence yesterday. For now, I want to thank the new Bronx Borough President, Vanessa Gibson, former chair of the City Council Public Safety Committee. Thanks for giving us so much time today. Congratulations on becoming president of the Bronx. We look forward to having you on in that role many times.

Borough President Vanessa Gibson: Absolutely. Thank you, Brian. You can always call on me. Thank you so much. To all the listeners out there, God bless you all.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Stay with us.

 

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