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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. New York City isn't just experiencing a pandemic, it's also, as you know, experiencing deep economic troubles and a surge in some forms of violent crime. These things may well be decisive issues in this year's mayoral race, with the primary coming up and that in less than six months. The pandemic, the economic emergency for many people, and the rise in shootings also make the work of violence interrupters that much more essential to the overall well-being of the city at this crucial moment.

With me now to talk about the place of violence interrupters in the context of New York City in 2021 and beyond, is Iesha Sekou, CEO of Street Corner Resources. That's a nonprofit organization that works to provide youth in the city, "the resources to help them develop holistically and serve as a positive alternative against the ongoing trend towards violence in urban neighborhoods" as it's put on the group's website.

One of Street Corner Resources' recent initiatives has been the Cure Violence program in Central Harlem. You may also know the organization from the New York Times article published last May about the role of violence interrupters and encouraging people to follow social distancing rules. Iesha Sekou, welcome to WNYC. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Iesha Sekou: I am excited about being on and I want to thank you for having me as a guest. Thank you so much.

Brian: For people who have heard the term but don't really know what it means, what is a violence interrupter?

Iesha: A violence interrupter is one who is also a credible messenger, who has participated in some ways in the same behavior that they now try to stop. The violence interrupter doesn't just jump between two people having a fight. Violence happened long before we see the gun come out and long before we see the violence happens. The violence interrupter's job is to really know when there is what they call a beef, a disagreement. Something that could lead to a shooting, that begins to happen and so that before we see the shooting, that we have the violence interrupter interrupt that situation, and help to mediate that situation so we don't see violence.

I know, oftentimes, people think violence interrupter just means that they break up the fight. No, they actually break up the beef so that we don't see a fight. They disrupt the violence, and then the alternative is to try to get those who are participating in the disagreement to come to a point of a truce, and then figure out how we can better use them in the community and within our organization, and help them to get employed. The violence interrupter's job is multifaceted. They don't just stop it. We stop the beef because you can stop it for a minute, but that same situation can erupt again if other people are promoting violent behavior.

We have to get that person who has the possibility to be involved, get them involved in some other things, make them see their value other than just pulling out a gun and pulling the trigger. The violence interrupter, that's their job.

Brian: It might even be worth saying because a lot of people when they think about shootings, and when they fear the rise in violent crime in the city, they're thinking of random violence, walking down the street, standing on the subway platform, whatever, and all of a sudden, they're victims. Really, the vast majority of shootings are between people who know each other, right?

Iesha: Absolutely. Some of those do become random. I just want to be clear. A lot of the shootings that we see happen because people have access to guns so easily. There wouldn't be a shooting if there was no gun. Maybe there would be a fistfight, but there wouldn't be a shooting. One, having access to a gun in a time of anger on a small situation, it becomes bigger, or someone gets heated and the emotional level of that person raises, and they make the bad decision to use a gun.

It's usually because the gun is so available that the decision is quickly made to use the gun. The situations that we see, you're right, if you have access to a gun, you're more likely and I think statistics show that you're more likely to use it in your house against someone in your house, not to protect yourself in the house, but against someone in the house or someone that you know.

That is a lot of what we're seeing. Whether you know them on the street, it's a street beef, or it's a beef in your building, or on the block, well, that's when guns are usually drawn, and it's usually that the people wind up knowing each other, some we see have gone to grade school together. They grew up in the same housing developments, which some people call the projects and they wind up having differences. They live in different buildings, maybe those buildings or blocks are beefing, and next thing you know, there's a war between two groups and all of those young people wind up knowing each other. You're correct in that point.

Brian: Listeners, we can take a few phone calls for Iesha Sekou, CEO of Street Corner Resources, and an anti-violence activist. 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280, or tweet a question on Twitter @BrianLehrer. How engaged in your work, has the NYPD been? Should we see groups like yours as an alternative to policing or something that works hand in hand with policing?

Iesha: Well, I just want to be clear. While we are within the confines of a preset area, most pure violence programs are within the confines of a precinct. We are not the police, but we try to do our own community policing, meaning to get in front of situations that can become difficult, and sometimes small situations. My team, the Street Corner Resources Speak Peace Forward team has been on the street, and a young person is going back and forth with the police, especially during the pandemic about a mask. One, the police didn't have a mask, nor did the young person but it was turning into something ugly.

It gave us an opportunity to interrupt or intercede on behalf of both parties, the police, and the young person. Why? Because everybody was highly stressed. That was the early part of the pandemic, people were very nervous about their own health and safety and, of course, young people, we saw people going out into the streets. We use our work and our presence to help keep peace. I think the keyword more than the word violence being the keyword, here at Street Corner Resources, our Speak Peace Forward team, our young people, the I Am Peace Movement, we use the word peace.

We're always looking to de-escalate, to engage calm in a situation, and make our community stronger and better for it, not have these engagements excited. In that way, you would see us acting, not in a policing kind of way, but we do acts and we have said to NYPD overall, we just had a conversation yesterday with the chief of patrol, Ms. Holmes, and we were just talking about our organizations Cure Violence can get in front of some of these situations so they don't have to become big. Let us use our voice, our presence, people know us, our community really knows us.

We have a lot of officers that come in and out of our community quite often, that are not known to the community. We're hoping that we see better engagement from the police, with the community, and of course, that we can better support that engagement and we can better engage our community. That's what we've been doing. Our work is mainly focused on engagement, engagement, engagement because if we know the community, we know the shop owners, we know the people in the barbershops, in the hair salons where the barbers even have voice to help de-escalate violence, that we want people to use their voices. It's not just our organization, it's our community that can do community policing, and that we all help to keep peace in the community.

Brian: Let's take a phone call. Iman, in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Iman.

Iman: Hi, Brian.

Iesha: Hi.

Iman: I love what your organization does, and I have a question. I sometimes witness fights, and I don't want to call the police because I don't want to get the young folks in trouble because they're being young folks. I'm not talking about violent fights, but things that are close to approaching something where the kids could get in trouble.

Iesha: Tell me what that is. Tell me what you mean.

Iman: This has happened-- Sure. A few times, I've driven by and I've noticed young men in each other's faces yelling, and screaming, and one of them, clearly, he wants to back down, and the other one is continuing. It looks like it's about to come to blows and the few times that I've come out of the car and said, hey guys, it's not worth it. I feel like [crosstalk]. I'd like to know who I can call, and is there a way to call 311 and connect to an organization like yours where it's not the police but it's someone who truly respects and loves the youth and wants to help them rather than incarcerate them?

Iesha: Let me [unintelligible 00:10:23]. One, I'm going to ask that after this call, you call my office and I'll give you the Brooklyn site because there is a Cure Violence site, more than one in Brooklyn, I can think of at least three. I'll give you those numbers and you can call my office 126-948-759. These are our brother and sister organizations within Cure Violence and they're very powerful and resolving conflict in the community and they will work with you. Of course, you have access to us. If you don't get in touch with them and they don't get back with you for some reason because we are in this COVID time, you can call me back and I'll navigate that for you.

Okay, but one of the things I want to make sure that you don't do because I think that it's good that you used your voice because sometimes screaming towards a situation is better than putting yourself physically in the situation. Okay? I want you to be safe. I want you to use your voice because that was great like, "Hey guys, it's not worth it" because you know what? The anger in the heat of the moment, you don't think about doing 25 years in prison, you don't think that you will not see your child get up and go to school for 10 years or 20 years if you take somebody's life or if you pull out a gun, just seven years for having a gun, right?

You don't think about that when you're in the heat of the moment, but a voice of reason that says, "Hey guys, stop. Don't do that. It's not worth it." It sounds corny but it brings a person's mind back to reality and we've done it. That's one of the tactics that we use. We have a card that we actually have that written on. I'm going to thank you, Iman, for even using your voice and being courageous enough to do that. Just don't go too close to the situation because you don't know if a weapon or a knife will come out and do call me so we can talk more about how you can get support for making things better in your community.

Brian: Iman, hang on and we'll give you that contact information off the air as Iesha just promise. This is WNYC-FM-HDN-AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey public radio with a few more minutes with Iesha Sekou, CEO of Street Corner Resources, a Cure Violence group based in Harlem as we talk about their work and the work of cure violent groups around New York city in this time of surging shootings. Thaddeus in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Thaddeus.

Thaddeus: Hey, how you doing? Happy New Year, Brian.

Brian: Same to you.

Thaddeus: I'd like to ask your guest, I live in Brooklyn and we seem to have a lot of shootings and I would like to ask your guest, do you feel that your organization is successful in stopping these shootings, or do you feel you're on your way to be successful?

Iesha: I think I heard your name was Thaddeus. Thaddeus, thank you for your call, and thank you for your question. Our organization, Street Corner Resources Speak Peace Forward team, we-- Can you hear me?

Thaddeus: I'm so sorry. I hope I didn't lose the call.

Iesha: I can hear you.

Brian: We lost you for a second, but you're back.

Thaddeus: I'm back, yes.

Iesha: We service Harlem but there are sites in Brooklyn. The work is not as easy as it sounds. Oftentimes, if we know about a beef, and even the organizations in Brooklyn, if there is knowledge that there is a disagreement and we know who the parties are just in this work in general, it's called cure violence and you can look it up, cureviolence.org will show you their sites all across the country.

We're part of the crisis management system but if we know about a beef, we can help to interrupt that beef, but there are so many different situations going on for so many different reasons and just like we said earlier, there are easy access to guns, guns in households, people who know each other that now everyone's under crisis and stress and now we see the guns come out quicker or the knife come out quicker because families are feeling like they're going to get evicted. They not working, they had [unintelligible 00:15:05] and now people were let out of prison.

There's a whole host of reasons why we're beginning to see this uptick in violence and then we throw in the pandemic itself, just being afraid of all that we saw in the beginning, the amount of bodies stacked up, people's mothers and fathers and aunts and uncles dying and them not knowing what to do. We're seeing that for a lot of different reasons and so we in Cure Violence, we do the best we can do to get in front of a situation that has the high potential for violence. Are we always able to do that? No. Sometimes it goes off like a hotbed and sometimes those violent acts are not even related to each other.

Sometimes, the more people you have in a borough like Brooklyn, you'll have a higher incidence because there are more people, the influx of guns may be coming into that area, we may not know that, the police may not know that and so it's a whole set of variables and I wish that we didn't have them. I'll tell you what you can do that is, and this is what I welcome our community at large in New York City and even across the country to do, to begin to have conversation with young people in your community, to begin to think what is missing, what do you think is needed to make your community more peaceful and talk to the people in your borough.

One, you have Eric Adams, the Brooklyn Borough President who's a great borough president to begin to talk about what's needed and then demand that some of those things begin to happen. Our mayor has been open to hearing what we need. I'm on a committee with him and Kevin McCall who comes out of Brooklyn, Mike Tucker, and some others that come out of Brooklyn that are bringing messages back to the mayor so that we can begin to develop community centers. I know I've been a big advocate for opening up places where young people, one, can be heard. Not being heard, leads to a kid pulling the trigger and then he's heard after he pulled the trigger in front of a judge. You understand?

We have to get in front of it as a community. Your part, Thaddeus, is to say, what can I do? What's my small part or big part and there's probably things that you bring to the table. Other people that you know, doors that need to be open that have been locked where community activities have taken place, and let's get those places open. Let's get our voices going so that we don't wait to see these shootings. We do preventive work and if you need support on that, feel free to call my office and schedule some time to have a conversation.

My number is 212-694-8759. That's 212-694-8759. I just talked with the mayor about four days ago, and I would be willing to put some of the concerns that you have before him and it's probably some that others had that we are already working on, but it's always good to have that extra assurance of what people need.

Brian: Thaddeus, thank you. I hope you got that number, and thank you for calling us. Please call us again. Mulu in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Mulu.

Mulu: Hello?

Brian: Hi, you’re on the air, Mulu. Hi.

Mulu: Hi. I'm calling from Harlem from 125th street.

Iesha: You remind me [inaudible 00:18:25].

Mulu: Okay. We have a problem between Amsterdam and Morningside. People from across the street, there is a project house, young people come and sit by our-

Iesha: The Grand House.

Mulu: -main door. Yes, they don't live in the building. I live across the street from that. They seat by the door, they play their music, they make a mess. They leave their mess outside and especially summertime, they are hanging around there. When we want to get into the building, they cannot even move. A lot of young people sometimes homeless. We called the 311 many times, nobody helped. We went to the police station. We told them-- The building is owned by HPD City but if you can help us, I don't know. It has been like that and the people who-- The tenants are afraid because of the sickness or the pandemic, everything.

Iesha: One, again, I want to thank you for your call and I hear you. I live in a building. I live in Harlem. I live in the area where I work, and that was an issue in the same building that I live in with young people hanging in the hallways, not moving when you try to walk up the stairs, they just stay in the same spot and block the front entrance. I get it. Not only do I get it, I experienced similar situations. I use my voice and my way of being to help make change in the building where I live, but I don't ask everybody to do that. I'm known in this community, I can do that, but I did just have a conversation yesterday with the chief of patrol, her name is Ms. Holmes. We were talking about the same thing.

I don't think that it's an issue where we always want to call the police, but what do we do about it? How do we help to change that? One of the things that I said to her, and to some folks that were on the same call that I was on with her yesterday, is that we need to create, and you're just validating that for me, that we need to create a campaign about respect, about hallways. I've been thinking about this over, this was just yesterday. Just last night, I'm just thinking, "How do we create a campaign that doesn't create a bigger problem with these young people? That doesn't make them feel like they have to rebel and damage property or anything."

I think that's one of the things that's going to have to happen, is that the same way we created campaigns around a whole host of other issues, including Black Lives Matter, that we have to create a campaign to undo this way of being, that doesn't work for people. Young people have taken up going in hallways and on stoops because they don't have community centers to go in. That just tells you, if they're in your hallway, and they're in mine and even when I go visit my mom, the same thing, that there is an issue. There are not enough places open for young people to come in.

Street Corner Resources has places for young people to go in. We have a music studio, we have workshops, we have a variety of activities, we take young people to the movies, but there's not enough of that going on in Harlem. Our spaces are not big enough, hopefully, we'll get a building soon, but we need places for our young people to go because right now your stoop in your hallway is the hangout, but if we had spaces we would be more able to invite them in and let them play basketball and checkers and chess. Even if they had to disagree, they have a place where they have guided disagreement.

I thank you for calling in and I will definitely make sure to take a note that you're on 125th Street. You can feel free to call my office if you want to give me more information and we would come and visit your block and maybe even engage some of the young people and see if we can get them some help with some jobs. Our telephone number is 212-694-8759. We've been doing some work in that area. It was mainly around when the young woman was murdered in the park over there, in Morningside Park, and we engaged some young people then, but we do need spaces and places to bring young people into. I thank you for your call.

Brian: Iesha, as we begin to wrap up, is your last answer, your message to the mayoral candidates? I'm guessing that your group won't endorse a mayoral candidate, correct me if I'm wrong.

Iesha: No, I won't. What I will-

Brian: Are there words, policies that you want to hear, promises that you want to hear, coming from them as this race take shape, that would contribute to the kinds of solutions that you're looking for and working day-to-day and on the ground floor to prevent violence?

Iesha: Yes. I want to make sure that the mayoral candidates listening know that we need more than talk, we need action, we need to have every NYCHA Community Center open and active, clean and vibrant so that young people want to come in, to make our spaces and places attractive. We need some of these closed storefronts and even we have more now, since the pandemic because people went out of business.

Those that are in the portfolio of the city, we need to open those spaces up so that we can have activities, mental health centers, places where people can drop in and get more support, where young people can get help with applying for college and that kind of thing, and getting jobs. We don't have enough spaces and places for activities to go on and that's why our young people are doing what they do.

We need definitely for our mayoral candidates to stand up, widen their spread of Cure Violence so that we are more visible in the community, we have larger reach because we have more sites. We need that. Right now, we need to cure this violence, and then we can turn this whole thing around and begin to do some other things with our young people even greater. I'm looking for mayoral candidates to really stand up and help to also get the guns out of our community.

Brian: Iesha Sekou, CEO of Street Corner Resources, a Harlem based cure violence or violence interrupters program. Thank you so much for your work, for your contribution to community well-being, and for laying it out so clearly for our listeners today.

Iesha: Thank you. People can find us on Facebook, like us on Facebook, and follow us on Instagram @StreetCornerRes. Thank you very much.

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