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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Oh, I should mention about tomorrow's show as well. We'll have New York Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney who's very much in the spotlight right now because she will be leading that House hearing with the new postal service appointee from President Trump, Louis DeJoy. We will preview that with Carolyn Maloney with the post office in the crosshairs. Carolyn Maloney as well as Miami Mayor Francis Suarez on tomorrow's Brian Lehrer's Show.

Now to your calls about being a college student or a parent of a college student in the time of COVID. Anabel in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi Anabel, thanks so much for calling in.

Anabel: Hi Brian. Longtime listener. Big fan.

Brian: Glad you're on.

Anabel: I just want to share that--

Brian: Where do you go? Go ahead.

Anabel: I got into the Yale School Drama in New Haven Connecticut. I've been a resident of New York City for seven years and their year is online, virtual. They're not producing theater this year, so Theater Management Program. I could stay put but I go back and forth with all the pros and cons, and even my mom was like, "Just make a list of the pros and cons," because I'm so close. I could also just take Metro-North if I have to be there in person. It is definitely a big decision. It is one that I've been sitting on since I found out in the middle of the pandemic in March that I had been accepted to the super prestigious. I'm just excited, but it's all just a strange time.

Brian: First of all, congratulations. What do you envision when you-- Maybe we can help you make this decision. [chuckles]

Anabel: Oh my gosh Brian, that would be--

Brian: What are you envisioning as the pros and cons of staying here and the pros and cons of going to New Haven even though you're not going to be going to class in person?

Anabel: To be honest, it's to focus on the energy of being in a new place because I'm going to have to-- It's a master's program. I'm going to have to focus. A lot of my peers decided to move. That's the pro. The con I guess would be being used to New York City in my neighborhood and be able to walk to the bodega to get anything I need and just the familiarity right now during this time.

Brian: Your peers in the program who are going up there, why do you think they're going? What do they say to you?

Anabel: We found out in late March and the pandemic-- Everything was shut down in mid-March and by the time that people were deciding to make this move, they had already planned on leaving their jobs, moving to Connecticut. One person is actually staying in the West Coast in Portland. There's many people that are doing virtual. Yesterday I met somebody that is just parking it up, going home for the year to California and then coming back next year. There's all sorts of-- [chuckles] There's a lot of different things [crosstalk].

Brian: Yes, all sorts of back and forth. If you're out there, do you think it would be like I was saying about, for some people seeing maybe it's different by the time you're in grad school, but in-person classes, no partying yes and you put yourself in more coronavirus risk.

Anabel: Yes. The news from our Notre Dame definitely hit yesterday and I just-- They are welcoming some students back to Yale. Our graduate program decided to just do everything virtually but there is a mix. There are students that are going to live on campus and things like that. I am very worried about a potential outbreak to just shut down the entire thing down.

Brian: Did you think about not--

Anabel: It's all--

Brian: Did you think about not going because it's all going to be remote and that it wouldn't be worth your tuition? I don't know if you're getting grants or whatever but that like, "Do I really want to do this for remote learning?"

Anabel: I did. I did Brian, but I'm a first-generation American and I have parents that worked really hard and I need to do this. I'm still very excited.

Brian: It's exciting.

Anabel: It's been a big deal for me and my family. We're doing it no matter what. It's just this decision of what-

Brian: Do it here or do it there.

Anabel: -different person or what is--

Brian: Good luck. At least New Haven isn't that far, and even if you do stay here, you can go back and forth to some degree, like you said. Good luck and congratulations. Super congratulations on getting into that program. Keep us posted, okay.

Anabel: Thank you. Thank you, love, everything you do, Brian.

Brian: Thank you so, so much. Peter in College Station, Texas. You're on WNYC. Hi, Peter.

Peter: Hi, good morning, Brian. Longtime listener. First-time caller.

Brian: Thank you.

Peter: I moved to College Station, Texas from New York, which was quite a cultural shock, to say the least, right at the start of the current administration in 2016. Right now at my very large Southwestern Texas University, there is an extraordinary internal struggle debate among the graduate student employees who were not given a choice to basically teach online versus in-person. The undergraduate students at this college were given a choice of whether or not they would like to attend classes online or in-person.

Brian: On an individual basis.

Peter: Yes. The university in what I think mirrors the Trump administration's handling of the COVID crisis has made it departmental by choice. There's no consistency. There's no alignment in how graduate student employees and even staff are given the choice to come into campus and teach or do what they have to do versus online. Faculty on the other hand are given the choice.

Brian: College Station. I presume that's Texas A&M, right?

Peter: Yes, sir. [chuckles]

Brian: Why do you think that is? Why do they tell you that is? Why would undergrads be given the choice but not grad students?

Peter: I suspect that it has to do with capitalism. I suspect it has to do with making their money because undergraduates are the big cash cow for any university. That's a given. That's how most universities make their money. I suspect that once the coronavirus numbers spike and I think they will because folks aren't masking down here at students' return. I suspect that as these numbers rise and once the census date hits and the university can say, it has this many folks attending, that's when they'll give the choice to graduate students to say online versus in-person, or they'll just send everyone home and it'll be all online.

There's an actual non-university affiliated coalition that's been forming that sent an open letter with demands to the university asking for things like PPE, asking for things like hazard pay. They were essentially told this coalition that reminds me of early labor unions. They were essentially told, "If you don't like it, you don't have to come here," by the university. This has been part of the internal strike because Graduate Student Senate, the graduate student organizations on campus are caught between a rock and a hard place. Do we jeopardize our good relationship with the university by endorsing this open letter, or do we just sit on the sidelines and wait? In the meantime--

Brian: What do you have to lose? What do you have to lose? You're paying them presumably or I don't know, maybe you're a teaching assistant, grad student and they're paying you, but nevertheless they're not going to fire you from your position as a grad student, even if you are a TA or an RA or something if you sign a petition to protect your safety. You don't know. [laughs]

Peter: Texas, number one, is a right-to-work state. That basically means that it does not encourage unionization, unlike New York. That was a big cultural shock for me. Also in academia, unionization just doesn't have the same pole. Even if they don't terminate your employment, even if they don't, folks can make it very difficult for you, especially at the grad student level in which you're extremely vulnerable based on your position.

Brian: I hear you. Maybe you all can do something short of actually joining a union or going on strike, organizing a union or going on strike and maybe the petition will do something, but Peter, I'm going to move on. Keep us posted, but thank you for letting us know about this. I think this is a revelation for a lot of the listeners that undergrads would be given choices that grad students are not being given for individual decisions on in-person or remote. Peter, thank you, and good luck.

Peter: Thank you so much. Have a good day.

Brian: Nicholas in Williamsburg, Virginia. You're on WNYC. Hi, Nicholas.

Nicholas: Morning Brian, how are you?

Brian: Good. How are you doing? If you're in Williamsburg, do you go to William & Mary?

Nicholas: I do. It's my first year in grad school.

Brian: And.

Nicholas: It's a little bit interesting here. What they're doing is they're doing online classes until everyone can submit a negative COVID test. Right now, I start class today, and then by sometime next week, we'll be doing half-online half in-person which I'm excited about to get that physical human interaction, but hopefully last, with everything going on. The community seems to be very supportive of the university, everyone wears a mask, everyone seems to be following the rules. Hopefully, it can continue in-person as long as possible.

Brian: That's interesting about the coronavirus test requirement. Will they require it periodically during the semester because we know that a coronavirus test result is only good until the next time you breathe in somebody else's airspace?

Nicholas: Right, and I submitted my test last week and I still haven't got my results yet. I've had a week to-- I drove down from New Jersey though I stopped at a gas station, talked to people, went grocery shopping. I know that they're doing periodic random testing. 5% of students will get a random test. I'm not sure if it's every day or every week, but they're trying to keep on top of it the best way they can.

Brian: That's an interesting way to do it, population testing instead of individual testing. I know a number of places, not necessarily colleges and universities that are doing that to get a sense of-- Like they are doing that in Sunset Park I believe, doing population testing to get a sense of the prevalence of the virus in a community and I imagine in the university setting. If there's a certain prevalence, they can shut it down or shut it down for a while for remote and have everybody in effect quarantine from each other. That's an interesting way of doing it. In fact, you might want to call up Texas A&M and tell them what they're doing at William & Mary. It might be good advice for our last caller school.

Nicholas: Right and I am.

Brian: More questions. Go ahead.

Nicholas: [unintelligible 00:12:38] undergrad here but I know that they set aside an entire dorm building. In case people do end up getting coronavirus, they can quarantine there. They're definitely trying their best down there.

Brian: Thank you very much, and good luck down there. How about Stephanie in Randolph, New Jersey. You're on WNYC. Hi, Stephanie.

Stephanie: Hi Brian, nice to talk to you. My daughter is a current freshman at Seton Hall University in New Jersey. Seton Hall came out with a very comprehensive plan back in May for a hybrid approach to part in-person, part remote, but a couple of weeks ago they decided to go fully remote because our governor had yet to say that it was okay to have in-person classes. At that point, my daughter decided that she would just stay home because she didn't want to spend all of her time online in a dorm room.

About maybe a week and a half ago, they said that they had a meeting with the governor, the governor said it was okay to go hybrid. Now, she has moved into her dorm, it's been a whirlwind last-minute packing and things. She has moved into a dorm. They are going remote until August 31st and then on the 31st, they are going to try this hybrid approach.

Brian: Interesting and why August 31? It's like basically to have a two-week quarantine, is that what you were just explaining and then hopefully everybody will be clean?

Stephanie: I think probably that's part of it. She was tested on getting onto campus before we were even allowed into her dorm and then for other out-of-state students that are on this quarantine list, they were tested also but then had to go directly to a two-week quarantine on, I believe, an off-campus dorm facility. I believe they're just trying to give it a try. Right now it's all outdoor dining, for the most part. They set up tents around the campus and I think they just maybe want to see how it goes at first and then hopefully switch to this hybrid model.

Brian: How are you feeling as mom in this equation?

Stephanie: She's my firstborn. That's a little bit strange but I am only about 40 minutes away and I'm grateful for that. There are a couple of other colleges that she got in. She was looking mostly Northeast. Three hours away, six hours away. I do feel better that we're in a state that has low numbers at this point and be that she's not six hours away. If I did need to go get her in a bind, then I could.

Brian: Good luck. Thank you for checking in with us.

Stephanie: Thank you.

Brian: This is WNYC FM HDN AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are in New York and New Jersey Public Radio. Have time for a couple of more calls with your stories of going to or taking your kids to college for fall semester as we hear there are many different ways that schools are handling it. We're going to be following this with election rules coming up on the show this fall. 50 different states, 50 different ways of handling mail-in or in-person ballots. We're hearing about all these different ways of approaching the college situation. Let's just get a couple more on here before we run out of time. Jordan in Ridgewood. You're on WNYC. Hi, Jordan.

Jordan: Oh, hi Brian. My daughter is going to be a freshman at Rowan University in New Jersey this year. She is starting in the dorms on Sunday. In fact, we are about to leave to a certain Swedish furniture store [chuckles] to pick up dorm gear and linens and things like that.

Brian: Are they still serving the meatballs or did they shut that down for the pandemic?

Jordan: [laughs] I don't know. We haven't gotten there yet. I guess the point I'd like to make is just that my daughter is very aware of what's going on and more aware than her parents of what's going on at the university and right now the last we heard it was going to be fully remote learning, but with the dorms open. Based on what we all know dorm life is like and what my daughter predicts it will be like, she's expecting the university to close them down. She thinks it's inevitable that there's going to be a breakout. She really wants to do it because, in part, she really feels a loss of the senior year of high school and she didn't get a prom. She didn't get the post-prom weekend party, whatever that is. Then even graduation parties were socially distant, very small backyard affairs.

Brian: Jordan, tell me one other thing. Maybe you said this already and I missed it, but is she going to have her own room in the dorms or are they going to have roommates as usual?

Jordan: She's actually going to be in a suite of three rooms where she would have one roommate, but she was already notified in the official student chat area by her roommate that her roommate wasn't coming. She's lucky that she's going to have her own bedroom, but she will be in a suite.

Brian: Jordan, thank you very much for checking in with us. More complexity from Jordan in Ridgewood as you hear. Let's take one more because Becky in Montclair. It looks like has a son who's a sophomore at the school I mentioned at the beginning of the segment which is in the news, Michigan State, which started in-person and has already been forced to cancel classes for in-person for the fall semester. Becky, do I have that right? Your kid is at Michigan State.

Becky: Hi.

Brian: Hi.

Becky: Yes, he is. They actually hadn't started yet. They were supposed to start September 2nd.

Brian: I see.

Becky: We were getting ready to go out next week and, of course, everything changed yesterday. He's going to be going remote.

Brian: What made them change yesterday-- If they hadn't started, what made them change yesterday after planning in-person?

Becky: President Stanley has a really interesting background. He's the president of, I think, SUNY Stony Brook, but he's an epidemiologist and an MD. I think he's maybe been looking at this very conservatively all along. Back in the spring, they shut it down pretty fast and he had just been out here for spring break, and we had to go out and pick him back up again. I think with these big universities that have thousands upon thousands of kids living on campus and around campus, I think it's just really, really difficult. I think they just took a look and said, "We can't do this." Some of the programs, the law schools, I understand it, and the College of Veterinary Medicine and perhaps some of the performing arts colleges are going to allow some students back on, but for undergrads, it's 100% remote. We just said, "Okay, that's it."

Brian: Is your son coming home or staying in Michigan?

Becky: He is here now. He never left and he's staying here. The big thing I think for us and for other families who pay out-of-state tuition is, is it worth it to continue paying out-of-state tuition? We decided that it is because the program that he's trying to get into is very competitive and it's a very well ranked program out there. We just feel like when you go through with the credits transfer, it makes a lot of sense to save the money, but at the same time, if we look at it as a longterm investment, it makes sense to just go ahead and pay that out-of-state tuition for this semester and see what happens in the spring. Anyway, we're not surprised. We're all very disappointed and now, of course, we have to keep buying all the [unintelligible 00:21:18] [laughs]

Brian: [laughs] That's right. Still on you.

Becky: That's the way it is.

Brian: Becky, thank you for checking in. Thanks to all of you for checking in on this. Obviously, we'll keep following the college experience like we're following the PreK-12 experience. Many moving parts as everybody tries to figure out the best thing to do.

 

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