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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we'll get an official New York City Council leadership reaction and continue to take some of yours on the phones to Mayor Adams' proposed 5% across-the-board budget cuts due to what he says are big expenses for the asylum seekers arriving at such large numbers, revenue shortfalls compared to predictions for this fiscal year and the end of federal pandemic era special aid money.

The big news that's been differentiating these proposed budget cuts compared to his other recent statements is that the NYPD seems to be included with a reduction in the force from about 36,000 officers to around 29,000 of all those projections pan out as reported. That would be the first time that the NYPD has dropped under 30,000 people since the 1990s. That may change the politics of who gets loudly upset about proposed cuts, but as the mayor said last week, ahead of the Thanksgiving week focus on New Yorkers going hungry, it's not just the NYPD.

Mayor Adams: Every agency in the city is going to be impacted. We're looking at the service providers and see how do we minimize those agencies like the delivery of food, the pantries, the other services that we know low moderate fixed-income New Yorkers depend on it.

Brian Lehrer: The mayor last week. With us now, City Council Finance Committee Chairman, Justin Brannan. He was just reelected in a hotly contested election, which we covered on the show against Republican Ari Kagan from the 47th City Council District, which includes Bay Ridge, Coney Island, and parts of Bath Beach. Listeners, before we talk to Justin Brannan, just a little background, Brannan and City Council speaker Adrian Adams released a joint statement reacting to the mayor's plan cuts.

It says in part, "The administration's approach of reducing budgets of all agencies broadly through additional cuts and a hiring freeze, along with inflicting cuts on our libraries, CUNY, and cultural institutions is too blunt and not the prudent or sole choice. With clear evidence that city agencies are lagging in their ability to provide New Yorkers with necessary benefits and services at historic levels, the administration must prioritize real exemptions from cuts to turn around city agency performance issues." That from City Council Speaker, Adrian Adams, and City Council Finance Committee Chair, Justin Brannan, who does join us now.

Councilmember Brannan, welcome back to WNYC. First of all, congratulations on your reelection. I know that was hard fought.

Justin Brannan: Thank you very much, Brian. It's good to be back. It's good to be back to work.

Brian Lehrer: I wonder if you could tell everybody first how specific the mayor has gotten in any proposed cuts. Is there a bill? Has he put these on paper? What do you actually have from the mayor as opposed to media coverage?

Justin Brannan: We're anticipating actually getting the document today if not tomorrow. Then we're planning to have an oversight hearing in the council right after Thanksgiving to really dig into the November plan, but thus far, we don't have much paper on it, unfortunately.

Brian Lehrer: In the statement that I just excerpted from you and Speaker Adams saying the administration's approach of reducing budgets of all agencies broadly through additional cuts in a hiring freeze, et cetera, is too blunt. Are you expecting an across-the-board 5% cut that just hits every agency of city government exactly that way?

Justin Brannan: I think that's the easiest way to do it, but I don't think it's the smartest way to do it. Across the board cut actually ends up affecting agencies in a disproportionate way, which is not what we want. I think to zoom out a little bit, and I think you mentioned this a bit in the opening, is that the budget gaps that we're seeing now are not a surprise. They're largely due to the end of the federal COVID stimulus funds.

The headlines that you're seeing are, "Migrant crisis is forcing city to cut cops," but in reality, the council's been warning for quite a while that this money was running out. We've also warned that when you use temporary money to prop up or expand permanent programs, you're going to have a problem when that money runs out. That's what's happening here.

Obviously, the costs related to the unprecedented migrant influx are obviously a big piece of this current budget puzzle, but they're not the only piece. I think what the council takes issue with, what we've been taking issue with for over a year now, that we've been asking the administration for a full accounting, is that the administration has really relied far too much on expensive emergency contracts with for-profit companies that have turned around and build the city for billions of dollars in an unprecedented moment.

I think that money would've been better spent working with tried and true and trusted partners in the nonprofit world who do work with immigrants on a daily basis, and probably would've billed the city for a lot less than what we're dealing with right now. The caveat there, I guess, to the mayor's credit and to something that the council has agreed with, is that managing and financing a international migrant crisis should have never been the responsibility of a municipality on our own. Yet here we are.

We need help from our partners in Washington and Albany and New York City cannot be expected to handle this on our own. We wouldn't be here right now, we wouldn't be talking about these cuts if it were just for the migrant crisis. This is a perfect storm of sorts, but the lion's share of these budget gaps are actually coming from the end of the COVID stimulus funds.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take your reaction to these reports of 5% across-the-board budget cuts, for NYPD, sanitation, the public schools, libraries say they'll be forced to close Sundays or at least one weekend day all across the city. Listeners, what's the alternative? That's the question that the mayor's asking everybody. You don't want these cuts, but we have to balance the budget. It's in the law. What's the alternative?

You can suggest an alternative or ask any question of city council finance chair Justin Brannan, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text. 212-433-9692. Because there has been so much media coverage of projected NYPD cuts, can you confirm that that appears to be part of what you'll get from the mayor today?

Justin Brannan: Yes. Appears to be that he's looking to pause or cancel or defer a number of cadet classes in the NYPD. The reporting you're seeing where that would bring us down to 1990 levels headcount would be due to attrition. The mayor is not proposing to lay off police, but through attrition and through pausing those classes, you would end up with less headcount.

Let's keep in mind that this is a budget modification and come January, we're going to have another preliminary budget for FY25 and we start the whole budget cycle again. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the revenue that we are seeing, that the city council is seeing, will suddenly and miraculously be recognized by the administration. I think some of these cuts would be reversed.

Brian Lehrer: What do you mean by revenue that you are seeing will be recognized by the administration? Do you think the mayor is exaggerating the amount of revenue shortfall that y'all have to deal with?

Justin Brannan: I think it's a shell game of sorts that I've learned. That right now, the post-COVID New York City economy has proven to be durable and resilient. Our jobs are back, our tourism is back. We weren't supposed to recover all the jobs we lost through COVID until the end of next year, and we're already there now. Tax revenues are outpacing even the most optimistic projections, and I think we're going to end up with about $1 billion in extra tax revenue.

The city is recovering strongly, and we're in a good spot. The budget games that we play is that sometimes the administration will choose to ignore the money that's sitting there on the table until they have a way that they want to spend it. The council just doesn't do that. Our revenue folks, our budget folks, our economists, they crunch the numbers and they're much smarter than I am. Then they come and they present to us what's there, and then we make decisions based on those facts.

They're telling us that money is there, and the stake controller is telling us the same thing that city economy, against all odds, is in a good place. We believe that right now, maybe the administration is choosing not to acknowledge those funds that are sitting in our collective checking account, but come January, suddenly, they'll realize these gains.

Brian Lehrer: That's interesting. Do you think the fact that the NYPD cadet classes would be cut in the way you were just describing and the coverage that has gotten has changed the politics of how city council needs to respond to these projected across-the-board 5% cuts? You represent a swing district. You just got reelected, as I said, at the top in a hotly-fought race with a Republican challenger.

Although you did win by a pretty comfortable margin, congratulations again. Nevertheless, there in the Bay Ridge, Bath Beach, Coney Island area, it might be different than a lot of parts of Manhattan or some of the other places in the city. Do you see a different kind of reaction to the mayor's proposed cuts now than on previous rounds?

Justin Brannan: Sure. It's a great question, Brian. I think a couple of things. I talked to as many New Yorkers as you do, and I don't hear any-- We all have different-- I think public safety means, different things to different people. I think that's been the conversation over the past decade or so. I don't hear any New Yorkers that are talking about, "Wouldn't it be great if we went back to having police levels at 1993 levels of headcount?"

The council does not support those cuts. We also don't think that they're necessary. I think there's a deliberate sort of Hail Mary happening here. I think it's a shame that the mayor has to do this, but I think part of it is that, so far, Washington is just not paying attention, and the calvary is not coming here. It's possible that suggesting that we cut cops or we cut street cleaning goes to the heart of all quality-of-life issues is a way to get people's attention, who haven't been paying attention to what the city is struggling with right now.

Brian Lehrer: Unfortunately, that's what everybody in New York City seems to agree about but can't get the federal government to change its policy on, and that's that immigration. The asylum system is a federal responsibility and the fact that there are 100,000 plus recent arrivals should be much more funded by the federal government than as much as being left to the city, but they're just not doing it.

Can't get Congress with the Republican majority in the house, especially to do something about that more than they're doing. Here we all are on the New York City side of the river right now as we talk with City Council Finance Committee Chair, Justin Brannan about the mayor's proposed 5% across-the-board budget cuts. Xander in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hello, Xander.

Xander: Hey there, Brian. Thanks for taking my call. I wanted to call and express my current situation as a community composter in the city. I've been working for environmental justice and serving the people for about five years now. Like I said, it's something that I think is going to be on the chopping block in a way that's going to be really detrimental to the city. We have seen these cuts come through in 2020 when all food scrap drop-offs were closed, and the non-profit compost sites in the city are closed as well.

There was a huge public response. I think it's just a waste of the city's money and time to shut down these programs that the city relies on so well and that it just takes so much effort to sign a petition and get that to city council and to have these cuts reversed. It's sad to see these green jobs get affected, knowing that they're probably just going to get reversed in the near future. To have that wax and wane of funding is just so bad for these programs. It's not efficient at all.

Brian Lehrer: Council member, would there be layoffs in the composting program?

Justin Brannan: Thanks for the call, and thanks for the statement. This is part of what the council is particularly angry about is that these are priorities that council fought really hard for. Some of the priorities, speaking about the, say, for instance, the library funding. These are budget fights that we were ready to walk away from the table if we weren't going to get what we knew New Yorkers needed here, that we shook hands on including the composting program. Deals and budget negotiations that we shook hands on just a few months ago when we passed a budget at the end of June that are now back on the chopping block.

It's hard to understand that these priorities would change from just four months ago when revenue is up. There's just no reason to make these cuts. Look, I think part of what we're going to be looking at when we have our hearing after Thanksgiving is for a real accounting to show us the dollars and cents of why these cuts are happening.

Obviously, composting is important. Right now, when you're talking about cutting police classes, and you're talking about cutting sanitation services and cutting libraries and CUNY, we're going to have to triage now what we fight for all over again. This is literally deja vu all over again because these are the exact priorities that we fought for back in June.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take another call. Maggie, in Manhattan. You're on WNYC with council member Justin Brannan, chair of the finance committee. Hi, Maggie.

Maggie: Oh, hi. Hi Brian. I'm a big fan. Long-time listener. To that composting and the libraries question, I'm always curious when there's budget cuts. Could we do private-- GoFundMe is such a big thing right now? What about private money or corporate donations to keep something like the composting or libraries open on Sundays?

Brian Lehrer: Council member?

Justin Brannan: Sure. Obviously, public-private partnerships are always welcomed, but I think New Yorkers pay their fair share of taxes, and they deserve to see a return on that investment into the city. I think what the council is saying now is that, yes, there are gaps here, and these are gaps that we had predicted in the out years, and now the out years are here, but we're not in a situation now where we need to be making these draconian cuts.

I don't think New Yorkers should feel that we should be running to raise money for the city when we're looking at a $110 billion budget, and the city's revenues look good. Again, I think that's what we're going to get into at this hearing.

Brian Lehrer: Maggie, thank you for your call. Let me be clear. Is your position along with Speaker of the City Council, Adrienne Adams, because you put out your joint statement, the two of you are the top two in leadership when it comes to the budget. Is it your position that there really is no budget shortfall that will require any additional cuts during the current fiscal year, which continues through the end of June, or is it your position that you're going to need some cuts, just not as much as the mayor is saying publicly right now, and you're going to have to try to apportion them differently than just flat across the board?

Justin Brannan: That's exactly it. There are gaps and out-year shortfalls that we need to account for and plan for. It's now the middle of November. We passed the budget at the very end of June. Nothing has changed between then and now that would force us to make these draconian cuts at this moment.

There have always been out-year gaps. These were gaps that we've been warning about since the De Blasio administration that once the federal COVID stimulus money ran out, there was going to be a fiscal cliff because so much temporary money was used to prop up permanent programs. We can work overtime to manage these out-year gaps. The cuts that are happening now are just not necessary. I think, like I said at the start of our conversation, it's not just about the migrant crisis.

If it were just the cost related to the migrant influx, I would not be on your show right now talking about budget cuts. It's important to talk about that. I think, look, we could always have a more efficient government, and I'm obviously all for it, but cuts across the board, they may seem fair because you're distributing the same amount of pain to all the agencies, but the fact is it doesn't affect all agencies the same. It's actually disproportionate.

Brian Lehrer: I also see in your joint statement with the speaker this line, "It is also essential that the city explores new revenues that can support our budget without impacting working-class New Yorkers." Are you proposing new taxes?

Justin Brannan: We're not doing any layoffs and we're not doing any property tax increases. Nothing that's going to hurt or affect working-class or middle-class New Yorkers. There are several proposals, and that the council's going to put forward again, probably after this hearing that we need help from Albany on that we can't do on our own, different revenue raisers that we'd like to explore. As far as raising property taxes councils we're not doing it.

Brian Lehrer: I see on the website, work-bites.com, an article by journalist Bob Hennelly, used to work at WNYC, former colleague keep up with his work. He's got a piece on work-bites.com that says, "Mayor Eric Adams has no problem cutting New York City services to the bone, but a stock transfer tax is out of the question." What about a stock transfer tax? That would be a teeny little bit off the top, obviously of every stock transfer here in the city of Wall Street.

Wouldn't hurt those making the stock trades. The argument goes, I think some of the municipal unions are behind this idea too and could bring in a lot of revenue with a tiny percentage stock transfer tax. Are you looking at that?

Justin Brannan: Sure. I'd love to do a stock transfer tax. We need Albany. We can't do it on our own. Recently the state controller put out a report recently about Wall Street obviously a crucial part of our city's economy. The sector contributed $5.5 billion in taxes, which is 7.5% of total New York City tax revenue. The sector, Wall Street is actually seeing levels of employment that they haven't seen in over 20 years. Stock transfer tax is on our list of priorities we'd like to see, but unfortunately, we can't do it without Albany.

Brian Lehrer: Are they lobbying? Maybe they would just be lobbying in Albany since that's who would have to enact it, but are you hearing from representatives of Wall Street saying why that would be a disaster for New York's economy in some way?

Justin Brannan: Certainly. Some folks that understand the holistic approach that the city needs to take are absolutely talking about it. I think that might be one of the lowest-hanging fruits that we might be able to get done.

Brian Lehrer: Let me, before you go, get your reaction to one New York Post article that dropped yesterday. The New York Post is The New York Post, and the headline is "New York City Council to 'roll over,' and accept Mayor Eric Adams budget cuts to NYPD schools and more," and it cites sources. The quote in here primarily is from former Brooklyn Councilman Sal Albanese who tweeted something that included imploring the council to, "Get a spine." Then it criticized the council for what you do spend money on.

It says, "Unbelievably, the New York City Council in June touted and spent a ton of dollars on 'member items' without considering that the fiscal house of New York City was on very shaky grounds. Of course, irresponsible politics is more important than fiscal prudence." How do you respond to either half of that? A, that the city council is going to roll over, not get a spine and do what the mayor is asking. B, that you're spending things on member items, meaning money that you get to spend in your district and other council members get to spend in their districts, discretionary spending. That that's where a lot of waste is.

Justin Brannan: Sure. Look, I think it's easy to throw tomatoes from the cheap seats, but the fact is the person making those comments just has no clue about how the process works today. As far as discretionary funds, I think it's easy for folks to criticize discretionary funds when really what it is funding nonprofits that do crucial work in our city. Regardless of that, let's talk about how discretionary funds are actually less than 1% of the total city budget. You're talking about $500-$600 million. Discretionary funds are not the reason why we're facing these budget gaps right now.

We want to avoid these pegs and we're going to hold hearings after Thanksgiving to fight this out in the public view because we want the mayor to change course. We're going to ask the administration to show the math, to show us why they feel we need to make these cuts right now and why we shouldn't expect that come January when he releases the FY25 preliminary budget, that we're going to be looking at a very different reality. That's what we're focused on right now. No one is rolling over. We're doing our job as a coequal branch of government to be a check on the mayor.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you one quick politics and campaigns question before you go because you are just in this very covered reelection campaign. I know the district changed a little bit, so it's not exactly the district you were running from, but it was widely considered a swing district, your new district in Bay Ridge, Coney Island, Bath Beach, and you did win against a Republican challenger pretty easily. My one question is, I wonder if you think there are any lessons from your victory for the swing congressional districts in our area?

We know that one of the main reasons that the House of Representatives went Republican majority last year was because Democrats lost seats in the New York suburbs. I wonder if you think that's a completely other political dynamic, or if there's any lesson from your victory in what was considered a swing district to what we see going on on Long Island and north of the city?

Justin Brannan: It's a great question, Brian. I would say, and I've been pretty vocal on this, that for Democrats heading into 2024, simply being not Republican is just not enough. It's got to be more than that. You're seeing a Republican party now that has perfected the art of getting people to vote against their own interests. Unfortunately, this is often bolstered by the fact that the Democrats were barely putting up a fight. In no place is that more evident than right here in my home district in New York's 11th Congressional District where you have some of the largest union membership in the entire country.

I think it's important that we have to put forth a very clear vision, which is what I did in my campaign talking about things that actually matter to working people and what families talk about around the dinner table at night. I think that's how you win elections. Our platform as Democrats nationally can't be grounded in complex or convoluted messaging. You have to talk about what you're going to deliver for the people. Talk about tangible results that we've made to help working people and meet people where they're at.

I think number one, especially for New York City is not to talk down to people. If someone tells you they don't feel safe, or they feel that crime is out of control in this city, while that may not be true, your job as an elected official is not to deny their reality. Your job is to take them seriously and work with them on solutions.

If someone comes to you and says they're experiencing something, your job is not to tell them that they're not experiencing what they tell you they're experiencing. I think that if Democrats can be grounded in delivering results and talking about how the Republicans have done absolutely nothing, in fact, are doing worse and trying to sit on their hands while the house burns down, then I think Democrats can win across the country. You got to meet people where they're at and you got to take people seriously.

Brian Lehrer: New York City Council Finance Chair, Justin Brannan, thanks a lot for coming on today. Good luck with this process on the budget going forward.

Justin Brannan: Thank you so much. Happy Thanksgiving.

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