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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good Friday morning, everyone. You might say there is big news from the Kyrsten Caucus in the United States Senate. Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona made big news last night. Maybe you've heard this by now, she announced she will support the Democrat's big bill, addressing climate change, prescription drug prices, and more. For some reason, she needed a promise that hedge fund managers will get to keep a very questionable tax loophole, but she's on board. There's Kirsten Gillibrand, the New York Senator who made news this week as her longtime quest to find healthcare for veterans of war exposed to toxic burn pits, finally passed the Senate.

Now called the Sergeant First Class, Heath Robinson, honoring our promise to address comprehensive Toxics Act of 19 of 2022, winner of the longest named Bill Of The Week award. Maybe you've seen Gillibrand and Jon Stewart campaigning for this in recent days after some Republicans who were for it decided they were against it, then finally decided they were for it again. Half of the Kirsten Caucuses with us today for her monthly "Call Your Senator" segment here on The Brian Lehrer Show. Senator Gillibrand, we always appreciate that you do this. Welcome back to WNYC.

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be on the call.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners in New York, yes, you can call your senator with anything relevant to United States Senate Business. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Listeners from outside New York, you can call too and ask your question or lobby across state lines. 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692, or anyone can tweet a question for Senator Gillibrand @BrianLehrer. Senator, can we take the big news from your namesake?

First Senator Sinema is a yes for the so-called Inflation Reduction Act on climate, prescription drugs, Obamacare extension, a minimum tax on billion dollar corporations, and federal deficit reduction. I think I got all the major elements in there. Is this it now? Can you say you have all 50 Democrats on board so this can pass with no Republican support?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: I think we can. It's a good day, those votes will start tomorrow at noon. When you have a reconciliation vote, you have to take votes on lots and lots of amendments. It'll probably be a 24-hour effort. We call these things vote-a-ramas. They're exhausting, but it's apparently necessary. We're really excited, this is going to lower the cost of medicines that people take, especially the main medicines that a lot of our seniors take like insulin, it will lower the cost of gas prices, and energy costs and address long-term global climate change. It has a lot of really beneficial things in it. It's something we all support.

Brian Lehrer: For whatever good things are in this bill, things you really cared about got taken out to appease Senators, Manchin and Sinema, most notably paid family leave to not lose your income for a few months when caring for a newborn or an elderly parent. That came out as did the beginnings of a national childcare program. President Biden's original desire to be the new FDR and really make a dent in the massive income inequality in this country got written out. How disappointed or frustrated or angry are you about any of that?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Of course, I'm disappointed. We did have an opportunity to have the first national paid leave program and more affordable daycare and universal Pre-K. Those things really could have helped the economy, could have helped families who struggle, and really are necessary and obvious post-COVID. However, I'm happy to get something done, you can't have everything you want today. We keep working on them for tomorrow. I'm very excited to get these bills done to lower prescription drug prices and lower energy costs. They're two of the biggest stressors that families are facing right now. I would argue the third is childcare.

It's a shame but I'm really excited to pass the other items, I think it's really meaningful. I'm going to keep working throughout the rest of this Congress on a bipartisan solution to see if there is any room for a bipartisan paid leave program or any aspect. Hopefully, with excellent efforts across the country, we can win a larger majority in the Senate, then we would have 50 people who would feel comfortable including these items in a reconciliation package. I'm going to fight for two more senators to join our majority and hopefully, get to do this package next time.

Brian Lehrer: Something like paid family leave that is so popular, it polls around 80% support including most Republicans to better panicle up for some national referendum. Like Kansas, a Republican state, as you know, just voted to preserve abortion rights. Paid family leave would probably be approved in a national popular vote if there was such a thing. Why don't the Democrats in Congress break it out as a separate piece of legislation? Maybe you've done this and hammer the Republicans on the midterms campaign trail for opposing it despite what their constituents think.

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: That's such a good idea. [laughs] I like that idea. I'll certainly share it with Leader Schumer. I also will try to find a bipartisan solution too. My goal is to get paid leave done as quickly and as robustly as possible. I do think that it is something that all of America wants. When we polled, do you want access to a universal paid leave for major life events? It's always a majority of the polled people that are asked and it's a majority of white Republican men.

The group that you would assume would be the least for it are still a majority in favor. We've had good paid leave programs in a couple of big states. We have all the data out of California, we have data out of New York, it works, people need it, it saves families, it saves their ability to provide for their kids and to sustain tough things. Sometimes it's the death in the family, sometimes it's a grave illness, sometimes it's a new baby, enjoy it. We need paid leave and every other industrialized country in the world has it.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. I'm no political strategist for any party, it was just a curious question that I had. It seemed like something that I would have felt would be going on. Republicans are saying the bill, as it's now written, is misleadingly named the Inflation Reduction Act, because it's not about inflation, it's about all those other things that we mentioned. They claim it will increase inflation because it's another hundreds of billions of dollars in federal spending being poured into the economy. How and when would you argue this bill will reduce inflation?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Sorry, inflation is when the cost of things rise. A lot of the rise in costs are because of COVID, are because of supply chain, are because of price gouging. Each industry is different. I can tell you, in the drug industry, a lot of the rise in prices is because they raise prices every year. It's a lot of price gouging going on, this lowers the cost of drugs. That is a huge piece of inflationary pressure for families. The second thing it does is lower the cost of gas, energy, air conditioning, and heating. That is another huge cause of inflationary pressure on families. Both of these aspects of the bill, lower costs for people, which is the definition of inflation.

If they're saying it doesn't affect macroeconomics, I would argue the reason the costs are so high has nothing to do with macroeconomics. It's not the traditional statement of inflation is too much money going after too few goods. That is not what's happening in America today. What's happening in America today is we just had two and a half, three years of COVID, a lot of people have left jobs that were particularly grueling and difficult like truck driving or working in meat processing plants. Those workforce issues are causing the cost to go up, it's not about macroeconomics. That's why going right after why are the costs are going up is anti-inflation.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, did you see the July Jobs Report that came out today? A whopping 500,000 new jobs, unemployment down to 3.5%, lower since the pandemic started, despite the economy technically shrinking in the last six months and despite the Fed raising interest rates to cool the economy. Usually, they do that to cool the job market. Do you understand how these pieces fit together?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: I do. The reason is what I just answered. It's not about the macroeconomics right now. We put so much money into the economy so that the country didn't fall off a cliff. We said during the pandemic, people can't work. They don't have money to buy groceries, they don't have money to provide for their families, pay rent, stay in their homes, and we have to save the country from this pandemic.

That's why the investments that President Biden made they worked, they really worked, they saved families, communities, companies, industries. I mean, we bailed out almost all the major industries, so they didn't have to collapse or declare bankruptcy. Now, people are going back to work, they feel stable, they feel able, they are looking for new jobs, they're going into new industries. That's why you're seeing job growth, you're seeing the economy change.

A lot of people have left some industries because they didn't get enough pay. They didn't have enough benefits. It was too grueling, it was too risky, and so I do think the job creation is just the money we put into the economy is enough for people to start businesses, get businesses back open again and grow things. I do not think what's happening has anything to do with interest rates, and I don't think the cost of things going up, the inflationary concerns was about interest rates either. I think it's the only tool that Fed has, so they try to use it, but it wasn't the answer to our problem, and it's not the reason for the success.

Brian Lehrer: Do you oppose the raising of the interest rates by the Fed?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: I don't think it's as necessary as they do, and I just think it makes it more expensive for people to buy homes, more expensive for people to buy a car or to have a car lease. It just makes things more expensive. I don't think it is needed to keep rating the rates, but that's the fed's job. I just think the dynamics of what's creating the cost of things going up are very specific industry to industry and are largely caused by what happened, because of COVID.

Brian Lehrer: Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, our guest on our monthly "Call Your Senator" segment here on The Brian Lehrer show on WNYC, 212-433-WNYC. I think Joe in Staten Island has a question about something that did not make it into the Inflation Reduction Act after the negotiations. Joe, you're on WNYC with the Senator. Hi there?

Joe: Yes. Hi. Thanks, Brian. Thanks, Senator. You know what? I want to thank you for propping up the economy. It clearly was the right thing to do so thank you for that. I'm wondering about SALT deductions, when are they coming back? That would really help out a lot of people in the economic powerhouses of cities like New York and Los Angeles and all these other communities that pay for their own municipalities and their own local governments, but then also, are paying for the municipalities and local governments of states that don't have state and local taxes. When can we have that deduction back, please?

Brian Lehrer: Right. Thank you. Just for people's background SALT, for those of you who don't know refers to State and Local Taxes, they used to be fully deductible on your federal income taxes, but under Trump, they passed the limit of only the first $10,000 of your State and Local Taxes are now tax deductible, that's a big penalty on wealthier states like New York and New Jersey. Senator, this got negotiated out of the bill fully restoring that deduction.

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Yes. This was one of the worst things President Trump did to New York. It was really just a stab in the back, and it's still something that's affecting all of our businesses, families and to be double taxed on the federal level and state level is really frustrating, so I share the caller's frustration, anger, and concern. This is something we have been advocating for to restore it across the board.

It's not part of this reconciliation bill no matter how much we wanted it to be part of it, it didn't make it in, and so the only thing we can do between now and the end of the Congress is work really hard to include it in a bipartisan package. Must pass bill by the end of the year, and try to make it bipartisan and try to just make the case. It's just not fair. It's not fair to tax a state twice.

Outside of a bipartisan solution between now and the end of the year, we won't be able to get it done. I'm going to keep working on it. I know Senator Schumer's going to keep working on it, and our whole delegation, because it's really unfair, and it really hurts middle-class families.

Brian Lehrer: Now there are progressives like AOC who say, "No, don't restore the full SALT deduction. What you're doing is giving a big tax deduction to the wealthiest among us, because that's who pays more than $10,000 or sometimes a lot more than $10,000 in state and local taxes." What do you say to them?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: I disagree because this is double taxation, number one. Number two, middle-class families are desperate in our state. Our property taxes are exceedingly high. Our state and local taxes are high, and to have double tax on that money is totally wrong. I think we just have to keep fighting to include it. The only reason it looks like it's a giveaway is because Trump put it in his tax cut, so it is something we always counted on. It's something that businesses and homes and families have depended upon. It's just wrong. It was wrong for Trump to do it to us, and it's something that we have to fix. I'm just going to keep working hard on it.

Brian Lehrer: On the other side of that, Senator Menendez, your colleague from New Jersey, was so adamant about restoring the full SALT deduction that he said something the other week I don't have the quote in front of me, but it was something like, "Anybody can be a Joe mansion." Meaning dig in as one Senator make or break on your main issue of choice. For him, it might have been SALT. Menendez seemed to be threatening to hold up this bill which any individual Senator can do because you have no more margin of victory on the basis of SALT, but it looks like Senator Menendez is not going to do that. Is that your understanding?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: That is my understanding, and it's because these investments in climate they're existential investments, we have to make them now. The rest of the caucus have agreed that this is too important and too urgent to stop it. Senator Menendez and I, and others we do not come from red states, we are not the majority makers in the Senate, we don't have the challenges that some of the more conservative senators who are Democrats have, and now is not the time to make your most important issue the most important thing, because we need consensus, and this is where consensus lies.

If you just decide to put your thing in there, I just don't know if you're going to get consensus. This is good and it's going to create a lot of jobs, it's going to address global climate change, it's going to get the cost of gas and heating and air conditioning down, and it's going to get the cost of drugs down. Those things matter, and it's going to help get people back on their feet post-COVID, it's needed. Yes, we will fight for this thing, but not at the cost of losing all that.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a question related to the COVID economy that is hooked to what I think I saw as a story the other day that writes for medical practitioners to do telehealth which were expanded during the pandemic, so people wouldn't have to do things in person, or at the height of the pandemic, so people wouldn't have to do things in person. Those loosen telehealth rules are going to go away.

Here's a tweet from a listener named Marty who writes, "Dieticians, especially in private practice, want to keep telehealth option. We can go into someone's kitchen via phone. Now, someone of lower insurance payment, chart, and prep time is the same. Will you help keep same payments?" Are you familiar with this issue?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: I am. As a mother who used telehealth during the pandemic, it worked wonders. It was really important to be able to call our pediatrician and have those appointments over the computer. When my oldest son was sick, it really made a difference, so I hope telehealth stays. I think it is something that is extremely positive. It helped people, and telework also helps people. We could do a lot of stuff over Zoom now. For example, I just had a call with 20, 30 ladies from Westchester, and those women can't come to Washington to meet with me, but we could spend 30 minutes on a Zoom call, and they could really not only ask me all the questions on their minds, but they could see their senators.

I think one of the positive impacts of having two and a half years of a pandemic is we did learn how to give healthcare and other services efficiently in other ways. I really hope we can keep it, and certainly if it needs legislative permissive language we're willing to work on that. I think right now it's probably up to each individual doctor's practice, but I think it really, really helped and it really helps in rural areas because if you can't get to a specialist quickly, but you could have a telehealth appointment, you might be able to save a life, you might be able to get treated, you might be able to have just better access. I hope it's something that stays.

Brian Lehre: More with Senator Gillibrand and a minute, more of your calls and tweets will get into her big win with Jon Stewart in a bipartisan way this week, and more stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we continue with our monthly "Call Your Senator" segment with New York Democrat Kirsten Gillibrand 212-433-WNYC. New Yorkers, call your senator out of staters may call to 212-433-9692 or tweet @BrianLehrer. This next caller is kind of a ringer because she's a monthly guest herself on the show this year but it's interesting to see her calling in as a caller.

It's Marielle Anzelone who some of you know, is our guide for our BLTrees series, talking about trees in the New York area once a month, for a year that started last November. I think Marielle has a climate question. Marielle, thank you for calling in as just like a regular person out there who called her regular call-in number. I'm glad you got through and meet Senator Gillibrand if you don't know her already.

Marielle Anzelone: Hi, Senator Gillibrand. Good morning, Brian. Oh, please, I listened to you all the time. I'm thrilled to be calling in as a caller. Senator, I'm such a fan of your compassion and the work you do for the underdog. You've done so much work for women's issues, and I really appreciate it. I think a little bit relatedly, I'm calling about environmental issues.

That the federal government, and certainly the Democrats have really led on climate. Climate is a critical, critical issue and a sister issue is biodiversity and nature. As you know, the last president took the country or threatened to take us out of the Paris Climate Accord but the United States has never been party to the Paris Accord for nature, which is actually coming up COP 15 is going to be in December in Montreal and 195 countries are party to this global treaty, the UN CBD, Convention on Biological Diversity.

I'm wondering what you would say with regard to the US's lack of involvement over the past 30 years and this issue, and what we can do on a federal level on a state level, to do more to promote saving local nature and protecting biological diversity, which, of course, is related to climate and intersectional West, but not the same as climate. Thank you.

Brian Lehre: Thanks, Marielle. Marielle [unintelligible 00:23:03] who can come on once a month and help me understand what's going on with a pear tree that lives on my block. Now talking about the fate of the planet with Senator Gillibrand. Senator, go ahead.

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Well, first of all, thank you for being such a leader in this space and for explaining these complex issues to all of Brian's listeners. I think it's wonderful. I think the biodiversity conference in Montreal, would be a very important conference to send a robust delegation from the US Senate to. A number of us went to the COP conference on climate in Scotland several months ago and that was very effective.

I'm going to talk to my colleagues to see if we can send a delegation up to Montreal for this. This would be extremely exciting to be part of and to be able to offer legislative ideas and suggestions. It's also something that, hopefully, the White House will participate in. I think it would go a long way for this president to be heard on these issues and I'm certainly going to encourage them to do that.

I think it's a huge opportunity. I think a Convention on Biological Diversity is really important. I think it's something that we have to safeguard. We have to safeguard plant and animal species, we have to ensure natural resources are used sustainably. It also gives us an opportunity to talk about fair and equitable sharing of benefits from natural genetic materials as well as everything from medicines to new crop species.

Those are things that I support, and I want to be involved in. I'm on the ag committee where we could do a lot of that work, and we might be able to have some provisions on biodiversity in the next farm bill but I look forward to working on this. If you'd like to work with my staff on some ideas for the Farm Bill, Brian will make sure you get our number at the end of the show. We'd love to get some of your ideas and thoughts.

Brian Lehre: Marielle, we can do that. Definitely, we'll do that off the air. Thanks for being a longtime guest, first-time caller. Senator here's interesting, we're getting some pushback on Twitter, not to you, but to AOC in the reference that I made, and others on the progressive side who say the SALT tax deduction should not be fully restored because it's for the wealthy.

Here's one example of such a tweet. It says as a suburban New Jersey resident, single veteran teacher, a mother of three, I have a very modest home in Maplewood, three bedroom house, I pay over $10,000 in taxes, that's the threshold. I am not one of those wealthy people, I could really use that tax break. Maybe I could go on a vacation. Teacher named Suzanne tweeting that just for the record.

All right, Senator, let's talk about your big win this week. The bill to fund health care for veterans of war exposed to burn pits. Remind everyone what burn pits are, and why in their veterans' benefits, their health care for this wasn't already covered.

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Yes, it's pretty outrageous that this wasn't covered but as some people may or may not know, over the last 20, even 30 years, when we sent troops to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, we didn't have the ability to dispose of waste. They would dig massive holes in the ground, and throw all waste into them, whether it was human waste, or medical waste, or electronics or clothing, or building materials and then they lit it on fire with jet fuel.

Unfortunately, that creates horrible toxins. They're similar to the toxins that were released when at ground zero when the towers fell. I was very aware of the nature of these diseases and the hard impact that these horrible toxins have on human health. One of the advocates, a woman named Rosie Torres, had been advocating for a decade for her husband, Leroy, who couldn't breathe anymore and has become debilitated to get access to the VA.

What's shocking is the VA has been underfunded, generation after generation but one of the things they do routinely is they deny coverage if they don't have the science or the epidemiology or the proof, anything. I mean any reason to deny something they deny. They denied Agent Orange for decades. The first bill I introduced in the Senate was the Bluewater Navy that's to include the Bluewater serving veterans from aircraft carriers and from ships to be able to get the same access to Agent Orange coverage because they were denied.

Well, all of these toxic exposures have been denied forever and in burn pits, particularly nine out of 10 are denied right now at the VA. We know these diseases are caused by these toxins because that's what happened after 9/11. The same kind of stomach cancers, throat cancers, lung cancers, brain cancers, are all manifesting and people in their 30s and 40s, and 50s when you would never have these cancers normally.

Rosie asked us to get involved. She asked Jon Stewart and John Feal to get involved. We had just succeeded in making the 9/11 Health Bill permanent for all first responders and family members who lived to ground zero. We understood the fight and we understood the urgency. We said, "You bet, we're in." We got to work and we created, with the help of all of these veterans groups, an enormous push on congress and enormous fear all across the country.

It mattered because one thing Jon Stewart and John Feal can do well, is lift other people's voices up and that's exactly what they did. We told the stories of these service members, families who had lost their service members, spouses, or children and explained to members of Congress that this is an outrage and they have to be covered. After many bumps and shortstops and defeats, we succeeded. We got the bill done this week. I think we got a vote of 86 to 11, which is pretty darn good and this bill will be signed into law on Monday. It's an example of congress actually working.

It's an example of democracy actually working where people's voices are lifted up and heard and people fought for this. These veterans were down to the 11th hour. They literally stayed on the Capitol steps all weekend after a failed vote last week to make sure it passed the week was a failed vote two weeks ago to make sure it passed this week. It worked and it was meaningful. I can't thank Rosie and Leroy enough for not only asking me to be part of their team, but to fight for all the people that this bill's going to save. It's going to save millions of people's lives.

Brian Lehrer: Congratulations on something truly bipartisan. Yes, 86 to 11, the Senate vote that I saw reported as well. Why did a bill like this-- Because both sides say they honor veterans if they agree on nothing else, why did it take 13 years? Never mind the temporary politics of the moment. I think I understand what went on with Senator Toomey and some others in the last few days. Forget about that. Why did it take 13 years, the number of years I saw someone say they've been working on it, and John Stewart to get unfunny to pass?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: There's a lot of challenges and needs in the country, and there's a lot of noise. Unless Congress is made to pay attention, sometimes some of the most important issues never rise to the surface. It's one of the reasons why I ran for president, Brian, because one of the biggest cultures of corruption in Washington is the money in politics. The money in politics flows, and so a lot of important issues never see the light of day, and only the moneyed interests get their issues looked at. It's just the corruption here.

When regular people, our veterans and their families, need something done, they don't have the fancy lobbyists, they don't have the millions of dollars to throw all over members of Congress's campaign coffers, and they don't get heard. That's something that the 9/11 community learned, that the 9/11 bill, before I got to the Senate, was totally stalled. It had been lingering for a decade in the House, had never had a hearing in the Senate, nothing was getting done.

What it takes is a group of people, me and John Stewart and John Feal and advocates to literally not let it go and to make the climate so fraught with certainty that you either are for this or you are against it, and if you're against it, the weight of the world is going to be on your shoulders. That's what it takes. You have to change the climate of America to pass bills like this. That's what the service members accomplished, and the veterans and their families, it's what the 9/11 first responders accomplished with the family members and the community advocates. It's how you have to do things in this era of corruption of money and greed in Washington.

Brian Lehrer: You know what? It looks like we have a veteran calling in right now. Tonya in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Tonya.

Tonya: Hey, thank you so much, Brian. I want to thank Senator Gillibrand for all of her work on this bill on the vets. I'm a veteran. She has been just such a champion for veterans in general, and I want to give her a big shout-out for her work on behalf of LGBT veterans. I worked with her office on this issue. She's also been a champion on an issue that a lot of people don't really recognize or don't understand, and that is the rape of soldiers by other soldiers in the military.

She has been a [unintelligible 00:33:28] champion. She has been relentless. I regret, Senator Gillibrand, that your fellow Democrats have blocked you on the issue of changing the prosecutions of these crimes. As you know, we want to take it outside of the chain of command. It's my understanding that Jack Reed opposes you on this, and you were opposed previously by Carl Levin as well.

Brian Lehrer: Are they Democrats?

Tonya: Can you tell us where it's at? I just really want to thank you for all your work.

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Thank you for knowing everything because you know the story of that cause. I want to give two more shout-outs to this question and the last question. Another reason, Brian, why this bill finally passed is because of Chuck Schumer. I cannot overstate how important having him as the majority leader of the United States Senate is. This bill could have a vote over the last eight years when Mitch McConnell was in charge, it never got a vote, never got a vote. It's because of Chuck's commitment not only to 9/11 first responders but to the veterans' community that this happened.

It wasn't surprising that he got a lot of gratitude at our final press conference because, at the end of the day, if you don't have a majority leader who cares about these issues, and you don't have a president who's willing to sign these things into law, you can't get it done. The combination of Chuck Schumer in the Senate and Joe Biden in the White House means this is going to be law.

When I first took this bill up and did a press conference about it, Joe Biden called me and said, "You know, Beau died of brain cancer, and we think it was the burn pits." I said, "You're not wrong, Mr. President. I'm going to get this done." We have a president who cares, we have a majority leader who cares, and then we have advocates who are willing to go through fire and go through hell. That's what it takes to make a law these days.

I just don't want to underappreciate the importance of having Senator Schumer where he is because he's had his ear to this community for the past 20 years, and he's never forgotten, and he's never given up. Once he got into a position of power, we had to deliver the bipartisan group to get it poised, but he's the one who put it on the floor and made it be possible. That matters.

On the military sexual assault side, thank you for following this issue. As you know, the military has a terrible record on sexual violence. About 20,000 members of the military are raped or have a sexual assault or unwanted sexual contact on average every year. The percentage of cases that actually go to trial and end in conviction is about 1%. You can't get worse at performance here. What we've been trying to do for the last decade is take the decision-making of who decides which cases to prosecute out of the chain of command and give it to trained independent prosecutors.

Our bill totally passed the Senate last year, but it was taken out in conference, so it did not get made into law. This year, we took all the pieces that got in last year, and we actually perfected it. Right now, in the bill, is a very good estimation of our bill. It basically says, "Independent prosecutors that are entirely independent of the chain of command get to prosecute about 11 or 12 different crimes." Not all felonies, which is our goal, but a lot of them, including murder, rape, child abuse, a whole range of the types of crimes that, frankly, we're just not very good at prosecuting.

We are on our way. We have one more shot. [chuckles] If it stays in the bill in conference, and we get to vote on it, I think in September, we will have done it. It's the advocacy of our caller and the advocacy of these service members and veterans, again, working to just chip away at the [unintelligible 00:37:47] of Congress. I'm hopeful that the changes will stay in this year and we will finish it. That will be a huge day to celebrate for our nation's veterans and service members who deserve to work in a workplace that values everyone and protects their safety and has justice when crimes take place.

Brian Lehrer: Tonya, thank you for your call, and thank you for your service. Senator, I know we're going to run out of time in two minutes. One quick follow-up on that because if I'm seeing correctly in the news, you've got another bipartisan bill that takes it out of just the military realm, not that that's not vitally important on its own, but into the private sector concerning the right of sexually harassed employees to speak publicly about their experiences and their settlements. You're doing this with Senator Lindsey Graham, right?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Yes, it's already law. I've been telling my girlfriends the last couple months, I made four laws in four months. It's a time of lots of success. This bill-- Because of the military sexual assault fight, Lindsey Graham and I are at loggerheads. He never agrees, he always tries to block me, he never helps me, but five years ago, when Gretchen Carlson came to Congress to visit with senators, she met with Lindsey and says, "Lindsey, let me tell you what happened to me at Fox News." He was so enraged and so upset, he said, "Okay, I will work on this with you." Gretchen came to talk to me, and I said, "Okay, Lindsey and I will team up on this," and so we did.

Lindsey agreed that, in the workplace, when you join any firm, any employer today, you have to sign an employment contract. That employment contract has mandatory arbitration in it, meaning if you have any claims against anyone you work with, you have to go to arbitration. Arbitration is behind closed doors. It's paid for by the employer, and as a result, it's usually pro-employer.

The decisions and the amount of relief you get tends to be very small, and it never really helps the plaintiff. It's very rare to get a Judgment for the plaintiff. We agreed that if you are sexually assaulted, or sexually harassed in the workplace that that mandatory arbitration agreement no longer is valid. You get to sue in a court of law and you can name your harasser or your assailant so that the company has a chance to change its culture. That changed 60 million employment contracts overnight. A huge win, President's already signed it, and now we're following it up with a couple of follow-ons that Lindsey and I are working on.

One is to get rid of nondisclosure agreements that tend to go with this in your employment contract. I bet we will get that done. I mentioned all the places people are discriminated against. I said, Lindsey, will you help me on any of the other places? He agreed to help on older people. We are going to do an age discrimination, sex as well, so they don't have to go to forced arbitration.

These are good successes that President Biden believes in, is signing into law, changes the workplace all consistent with the work I've been doing over the last decade coming to fruition which is a lesson to your callers. Some things take a very long time [chuckles] but if you don't give up, you might be able to win.

Brian Lehrer: Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, we have so many other interesting callers on the line that we're not going to have time to get to. I'm glad we do this, "Call Your Senator" segment every month. Let's do it again in September. What do you say?

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand: Absolutely.

 

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