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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. If you're a baseball fan or a theater lover, listen up.

Governor Cuomo: Broadway tickets go on sale today at 100% capacity for theaters. The shows open September 14th. That's a function of how Broadway operates, obviously. They have to have a play to put on, and they're in the process of doing that, but the tickets go on sale tomorrow.

Brian: "Tomorrow" was yesterday, so they've now been on sale for a day. Governor Cuomo, on Wednesday there, announcing the September 14th full reopening of Broadway theaters.

Governor Cuomo: For baseball reopening May 19th, two different categories, not Yankees, Mets, vaccinated, unvaccinated. Vaccinated people, normal capacity, normal seating for people who are vaccinated. Sit next to each other in a section, sit next to your friends, sit next to your family. Just normal capacity, normal seating. Vaccinated families who have a child 16 under, who's not eligible, that child can be seated with the family.

We ask them to wear masks, but you attend a ball game like you attended the ball game two years ago. For unvaccinated people, the six foot-distancing applies with masks, and that comes out to roughly 33% in those sections capacity for unvaccinated people. If you're vaccinated, that's one category. You're unvaccinated, that's another category.

Brian: The governor on Wednesday with the new rules effective May 19th for going to see the Yankees or the Mets. Theater-goers and baseball fans, let's discuss. If you go to Yankees or Mets games, do you like the idea of vaccinated and unvaccinated sections, 646-435-7280. 646-435-7280. If you're a theater-goer, are you ready for full capacity seating? Which is apparently what they need to make the shows economically feasible and no vaccination requirement there, at least not from the state.

Governor Cuomo: My option that I like is 100% vaccines. I think if you said to people, "We're 100% vaccinated, don't worry about the person to the right, don't worry about the person to the left, it's 100% vaccinated," it would be a safer environment for people to go to. Now, is that feasible from a market point of view? I have no idea.

Brian: Let's try to find out. With us now, two New York Times correspondents who wrote up the governor's theater and baseball announcements. Michael Paulson covers theater. Daniel Slotnik covers New York, generally. Michael, welcome back. Daniel, welcome to WNYC.

Daniel Slotnik: Great to meet you.

Michael Paulson: Good morning, Brian.

Brian: Michael, one distinction right off the bat, the outdoor ballparks will require vaccines or separation, not the little indoor theaters. Does the governor have authority over one, but not the other?

Michael: He does not have authority over what these private businesses do, but he has some kind of moral sway, if I can use that phrase, in his current situation. He said at his news conference that he would love to see Broadway require vaccines, but he's not going to tell them what to do. The theater owners haven't yet decided. The tickets that have been put on sale thus far have a little asterisk that says basically any kind of safety requirement might be in place by the time you get to the theater in September, including the possibility of a requirement for the vaccination and/or testing.

I don't think the theaters are super excited about the idea of requiring vaccination for patrons. I think it probably will be required for cast and crew.

Brian: For cast and crew, but not for patrons is your expectation. I think there is a different legal status between the theaters and the stadiums, which I think are technically public functions, even though the teams are private businesses. Daniel, any reaction that you've seen from the Mets or Yankees organizations or anyone else to having full capacity vaccinated sections and socially distanced one-third capacity unvaccinated sections?

Daniel: There was a bit of, not to oversell it, but a bit of a backlash on Twitter. Some people were even going as far as saying it amounted to segregated seating. That came up during the governor's press conference. The reaction was quite swift. His contention was that it's simply a safety precaution, doesn't rise to the level of segregated seating by any means.

Brian: There are demographics here. Disproportionately Black and brown people and white Republican men are those most frequently choosing no vaccine so far. Baseball attendance is pretty white generally, but it's a form of separation, at least, segregation. I could see why people loathe to use that word because it represents something that was horrific in this country. It still goes on informally in all kinds of sectors, but it has to do with race.

This is separation by vaccination status, but certain demographic groups are more susceptible based on the choices they're making to being separated. In Florida, they won't even allow businesses to voluntarily ask for proof of vaccination. In New York, it'll be required and you'll be identified by group if you go to baseball games. Do you know, as Senator Gianaris suggested in our last segment, that the unvaccinated people won't be shunted off into the worst sections?

Daniel: That, again, was what the governor said at his press conference, that it was not as if people who aren't vaccinated are going to wind up in the nosebleeds. As far as the specifics of the seating arrangements, I haven't seen a whole lot of detail.

Brian: Michael, what are the economics of reopening Broadway? Why can't they do it with social distancing? The governor was suggesting in that clip that they can't, but he doesn't know.

Michael: Broadway, as some of your listeners probably know, is an incredibly risky business, and already, in the best of times before the pandemic, most shows failed financially. They didn't make back the money that they spent to get to Broadway. Most of their revenue comes from selling tickets. Costs are very high. Broadway is a very heavily unionized workforce and wages are high for the arts, real estate costs are high.

The producers and the theater owners say that it is just not financially feasible to keep shows running at reduced capacity. The Broadway League points out that any show that was at a third capacity before the pandemic would close. That was a sign of failure. They say they just can't do it and they're not planning to, which is partly why they're not going to come back until mid-September at the earliest.

Brian: Amanda in Alphabet City, you're on WNYC. Hi, Amanda.

Amanda: Hi, Brian. Oh my gosh, I listen to you every day. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's the first time I'm on. I just have a question for your guest, and I apologize, I can't remember his name. What he's basing the assumption on that actors and crew members are going to be required by the theaters to be vaccinated, but patrons are probably not going to be. The employees probably are, but the patrons probably aren't.

Just because I'm an artist myself and I know that the Actors' Equity Union, right now their stance is they're not requiring members one way or the other in order to be under contract. They're leaving it up to the producers, aka the larger Broadway theaters and the smaller theaters as to what they're requiring. It just seems a little uneven, the information we're going to require our employees, but we're fine with putting them in danger, and we're not requiring patrons because we want money, which that's a whole another issue with the inflated prices of Broadway. I'm just wondering where he's getting that information that he thinks that probably employees are going to be required, but patrons are not, so that we can put butts in seats?

Brian: My guests by the way are Michael Paulson who covers theater and Daniel Slotnik who covers New York generally for New York Times.

Amanda: Michael. I'm so sorry, Michael that I misremembered your name.

Brian: That's okay.

Michael: No worries.

Brian: Michael, this one's on your beat. Do you know the answer to her question?

Michael: No, it's an excellent question. I'm surmising because policies have not been set either backstage or for audiences yet, but I'll call your attention to a few things that you're probably already thinking about. Actors, of course, are going to be unmasked, and they're going to be in really close contact with one another and with their crews, both backstage and onstage. They're going to be singing. They might be kissing or fighting. It's a completely different level of interaction than you're likely to find in the audience, and in the audience, masking is going to be required.

What we're already seeing from labor unions like Equity is that their expectation is that the level of safety protocols that is required for vaccinated people is just far, far lower than the level of protocols that they want in place for unvaccinated people. There's a practical consideration about whether these shows could actually put into place the kinds of protocols that Equity has been requiring for unvaccinated workforces thus far. My guess is that as a practical matter, there's going to be an expectation of vaccination backstage.

For the audience, it's complicated. There will be masking. Obviously, a big part of the Broadway audience for some shows is children who are not currently legally eligible to be vaccinated, and as you say, there's a financial concern as well. Broadway's already worried about the disappearance of tourists, and each time you add another restriction on who can attend, you reduce the number of people you can potentially sell tickets to.

Brian: Amanda, thank you. I hope that answers your question, at least in part. I'm glad you got through. Please call us again. Michael, let me stay with you on that because as of today only plays that are not musicals can reopen this month at limited capacity because of the extra spewing that singing involves. It's a leap of faith to think that that's not going to matter as soon as September, right?

Michael: Yes. I think everything that's happening is based on trend lines and forecasting. The tickets that have gone on sales so far all include these disclaimers that they depend on permission from various regulatory authorities. You can feel that the city is taking steps gradually toward reopening. More businesses are open, more schools are open. People are starting to go back to work. Subway ridership is up, airplane travel is up. This is a forecast guesstimate that given the trend lines for both infection rates and vaccinations that it's possible to imagine people going back inside Broadway theaters in the fall.

Brian: Mike on the Upper East Side about the ballparks. Hi, Mike, you're on WNYC.

Mike: Hi, Brian, thanks for taking my call. I'm fully vaccinated, and I'd like to go back to baseball games, but I think if I was going to go, I would probably honestly prefer being in a section of people who aren't necessarily vaccinated, where there's spacing between different groups of people than sitting in a section where everyone's vaccinated, but we might be sitting next to each other throughout the entire section, complete capacity.

I'm not a doctor or a medical professional. I realized that maybe that's silly and not really consistent with the best science, but I think at this point where it's still fairly early, I would really be more comfortable with more spacing, especially outdoors, three or four seats between me and the people around me, I feel quite comfortable. Whereas right next to a stranger, even though they're vaccinated, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel with that.

Brian: Interesting, Mike. Daniel, I could see it. It's not illogical. Which way is a cautious vaccinated person going to feel safer? Shoulder to shoulder in a completely full section with vaccinated people or sitting in an only one-third full section, which will be the new rule with people who are unvaccinated? Maybe there'll be people like them who go to the ballpark and decline to show their vaccination status so they get shunted into that other section.

Daniel: I think that may be a prudent response. Even though it does seem like it is fairly safe in an open-air stadium when people are masked, you are still yelling or potentially eating, drinking, and you're pretty close to other people. The interesting thing about that is that stadiums, like for instance, the Texas Rangers have been able to have a full stadium since the start of the season. Their opener was pretty packed, but they actually have some sections where they have distance seating because some fans aren't comfortable being in the packed stadium. It's the reverse situation, people have to opt in for the space.

Brian: Ken, a stagehand in Bay Ridge, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ken.

Ken: Hi, Brian. My biggest concern is actually crew audience to actor interaction. I'm a sound mixer. Oftentimes, I am sitting in the audience less than six feet away from the audience. Because Broadway relies so much on international tourism coming back, the whole vaccine passport thing is important to me because we have to be able to not only test and verify that New York residents and national residents are vaccinated or have a negative COVID test, we have to be able to do that to our international tourists coming through as well. I'm wondering if there's any more discussion on the vaccine passport and how that is going to directly affect my coming back to my work safely.

Brian: Michael?

Michael: It's an excellent question. I don't know the answer. I think there's a general expectation that international tourism is going to remain pretty low for the rest of the year, but it's not going to be zero. I know exactly where you sit in theaters, and I hear your concern. These are all going to be factors as you, your colleagues, the producers and the theater owners all grapple with this question of who should be required to be vaccinated, if anyone, when theaters reopen.

Brian: Daniel, did I hear something from the governor? I don't have the details on this, but I thought in that news conference, I heard it go by that in some cases, there would be a vaccine requirement, but there wouldn't be the option to show proof of a recent negative test because it's too complicated. Is that something that you're familiar with?

Daniel: Yes, my understanding is that they're going to remove that as a requirement to get into the stadium. Basically, you present them with proof of immunization, which can be the CDC, the paper card, an app that shows it or the state's Excelsior Pass and then you can go into the vaccinated seating, otherwise, you will go into the unvaccinated seating. They think that that's just an onerous requirement that won't be necessary anymore with these new regulations.

Brian: Oh, so it'll just be vaccinated or unvaccinated at the ballpark. You don't have the option to take a rapid test there or to take a PCR test within three days and bring that negative test paperwork. That option is going to go away, May 19th?

Daniel: At least that's my understanding of it. They are offering vaccinations for people at the stadium, the Johnson & Johnson shot. They say that if you get the shot at the stadium, you'll also get a voucher for a free ticket

Brian: Folks, later in the show, we're going to talk to actors from Hamilton and other Broadway plays and get more on this from the performer's perspective. For now, we thank Michael Paulson who covers theater and Daniel Slotnik who covers New York generally from the New York Times. Thank you so much.

Michael: Thank you.

Daniel: Thank you very much.

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