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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Something really big happened last night in the Caribbean. You might say a new country was born, it depends on your definition of a new country. It's now the Republic of Barbados. It wasn't before. The country removed Queen Elizabeth as head of state. Just after midnight, this morning, Governor-General Sandra Mason was sworn in as President. Big news, but also a reminder of the ongoing influence of British colonialism well into the 21st century.

Let's get a view of Barbados' move from Commonwealth to Republic from Kobie Broomes, First Vice President of Barbados Youth Development Council, and a Multimedia Specialist at the news organization, Barbados Today. Kobie, thank you so much for coming on WNYC. Hello.

Kobie Broomes: Hello, and thank you so much for having me on the show today. I greet you from the Republic of Barbados.

Brian Lehrer: How good does it feel to say that?

Kobie Broomes: Absolutely fantastic. I can tell you that I was up till about 2:30 in the morning watching the celebrations from a screen that I set up outside and watching the fireworks and so on. I was absolutely almost to tears just watching the celebrations of Barbados becoming a republic.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, right away, we'll open up our phones to anyone who is from Barbados or in Barbados or with ties to Barbados, for your reactions. What does it mean that Barbados, today, has become a republic? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. You are invited. You can also talk historically about the legacy of British colonialism there or whatever you want to say on this historic, this auspicious occasion, 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692, or you can also tweet @BrianLehrer. We'll watch our Twitter go by.

Kobie, what actually happened today? What's the right word? I know we're saying from a Commonwealth to a republic, does it mean Barbados just declared its independence? Is it something less than that? What are we really talking about here?

Kobie Broomes: No, Brian. Barbados gained political independence from Britain in 1966, so today is actually our 55th anniversary of independence. What has happened though, is that even though we retain political independence, the Queen was still our head of state. Her representative would have been the Governor-General. What we've done today is to say we are no longer having the Queen as the head of state of Barbados, we have a Barbadian as the head of state. We have essentially completed the process of independence so that we are a country standing on its own, having a Barbadian, a local as the head of state.

That was what was done this morning, bright and early, as Dame Sandra Mason was elected. Well, she was elected a little bit before but declared as the President of Barbados.

Brian Lehrer: Did the UK have any continuing power over Barbados, or is this purely symbolic?

Kobie Broomes: After 1966, it was more of symbolism. With Barbados, we basically were functioning-- As a country, before, we were governing our own affairs, but what happened was you still had different organizations and different things politically that were still linked to the monarchy. For example, our police force was named the Royal Barbados Police Force. It was Her Majesty's Prisoner, Dodds. When the ministers took their oath of office, they were pledging allegiance to the Queen, her heirs, and her successors.

What has happened now is Barbados has removed all of those symbolic linkages and all of those, as the Prime Minister said, "We're no longer lingering on the colonial backdoor, that we've removed all of that now." We are pledging allegiance to the State. We are in the process of going through constitutional review. We're going to have a brand new constitution because we were given a constitution essentially from England. All of that, basically reshaping the identity of Barbados.

Brian Lehrer: Why now? Why did it take 55 years after independence?

Kobie Broomes: Well, I would say it would be a lot of political will. This is not the first time that this republic idea was raised in Barbados. We actually had a Commission over 20 years ago that made the recommendation that we should proceed to the next step of becoming a republic. It has now come that the government has an overwhelming majority in the House of Parliament, in the House of Assembly, and they've made the step, they've made it the purpose to take Barbados to that next step.

That has also sparked a lot of conversations with our regional brothers and sisters in Jamaica, in St. Lucia, in the Bahamas, who are independent but still have those linkages to the monarch.

Brian Lehrer: Is it linked at all to the racial justice movement and racial reckoning, as some people call it, that's going on in this country since the murder of George Floyd?

Kobie Broomes: Interestingly enough, I saw that article on CNN, and I was a little taken back because even though we would have identified with the Black Lives Matter movement in Barbados, I don't think that it had anything to do with what we as a country were thinking about when we were proceeding with our transition to a republic. We basically said, year 55 independence, now is as good at a time as ever to make that transition to complete the task of independence, and that is essentially what happened. Even though we were cognizant of what was happening in the United States, I wouldn't say that that played a major factor in the decision to become a republic.

Brian Lehrer: We're talking about the historic day today, Barbados becoming a republic, no longer a Commonwealth that recognizes Queen Elizabeth as its head of state.

Kobie Broomes: Well, Brian, we still are a Commonwealth country, we still remain in the Commonwealth group, but we aren't linked to the monarchy. I think it's about 54 states, out of them I think 33, we know maybe 34th state that has no link to the monarchy that remains in the Commonwealth. We're still part of the Commonwealth. We're saying the Republic of Barbados, but on official documents, it will still be listed as Barbados. Only very symbolic changes have been undertaken for this particular move.

Brian Lehrer: Got it. Richard in Florida, you're on WNYC. Hi, Richard.

Richard: Hello, how are you doing, Brian?

Brian Lehrer: Good. How are you doing?

Richard: I am fine. I'm walking in the park, as a matter of fact. I am happy, but yet still, I have a lot of bad feelings about how Barbados took 55 years. I was there in 1966, and I came to the United States in '76, and I so expected that we would have turned for our rear become a republic and get rid of this monarchy crap. You know what I mean. Listen, I remember as a little kid in Barbados, then I was about four or five years old, and I had to stand, it will be called a broiling sun, and wherever the Her Majesty or someone else from England, I always thought about why must everything be labeled the Royal Police Force, Her Majesty's Prison, all that. All the property, been given to these people over and over and over again.

Brian Lehrer: Richard?

Richard: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Question. What do you remember about 1966, about independence day 50 years ago today?

Richard: I'll tell you what, I wrote about it in a book I called The Caribbean Rum Chronicles. It was called the Caribbean Rum Chronicle: the Raucous Sixties. A lot of people in Barbados wrote it. I will send you a copy because I have too long stories about independence day and my perception. I was 14 years, we celebrated as young people, and we had a good time in the morning, and at night. There was a concert. The Supremes came to Barbados the first time along, and we were so excited, but then a riot ensued. It seems as though the riot was the culmination of, "Oh, we are suffering." It was like a mini-riot.

It was a mini-riot, but I wrote about it. I could send it to you because it's a lot of information I have in there. A lot of people don't really know but I was right there on the spot. I can send you a copy of the book my [unintelligible 00:09:55].

Brian Lehrer: I would love it. I'd be happy to buy it from you or however you want to do that. You can talk to our screener off the air if you want the way to send it to the station. Richard, thank you for the history that you shared with us. That's extremely, extremely relevant and important, and wonderful to hear your voice. Let's try Audrey in Brooklyn. Audrey, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Audrey: Hey Brian, thank you for taking my call. I'm an American citizen, traveled extensively throughout the Caribbean, have Jamaican parentage, and really want to congratulate Barbados for taking this monumental step in disinvesting in the British historical monarchy colonization. I'm just so happy for the country. Whatever happens, independence and standing on your own as a Republic is crucial to growth. We have to step away from the dark cloak of colonialism.

I would really like for Britain to start writing cheques. Reparations are past due for all of the countries that were formally their slave-holding land, including we here in America, they all owe us money. Let's talk about that when we talk about independence and being an independent Republic. That's part of the conversation.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Kobie Broomes from Barbados today. What about that? Is anybody talking about reparations?

Kobie Broomes: We've actually set up a committee under the Prime Minister's Office to look at reparations. When the prince spoke last night, he basically apologized in a sense but stopped short of talking about reparations. We are anxiously awaiting that conversation because there's a lot that the British have to atone for. As you know, Barbados was one of the first slave society. We were the first stop on the African slave trade movement. The slave society was perfected in Barbados and then shipped out to the rest of the world.

When we talk about reparations, we really need to have that conversation with the British to ensure that, as a fully independent nation now, that we are able to get what is owed to us from the atrocities of the past.

Brian Lehrer: Just as we're talking about in the United States more these days, the story of independence in the case of Barbados can't be told without acknowledging the violent colonial history of British rule and the trans-Atlantic slave trade. To what extent has the removal of the Queen as head of state this morning been an acknowledgment of the ongoing influence of slavery explicitly?

Kobie Broomes: Well, what I'll say is to that, again, as we set up the Reparations Committee to get that going, I think the pressure is now on. Barbados has taken a leading role in saying to the world that we are breaking the colonial ties and putting some pressure on the monarchy, on the British to face facts and to know that they need to atone. Even in terms of-- I think it was about two or three years ago with the Windrush Scandal. We sent, even after all of the slavery, we sent persons up there to work to build up the British economy and they were treated extremely poorly.

Even in modern-day times, there's still a lot to discuss and there's still a lot to atone for, particularly after how people were treated.

Brian Lehrer: I see Janet in Brooklyn is back on the line. Janet will get to you in just a minute. Looks like she has a wonderful story of her grandmother who left Barbados 100 years ago. We also have a question from Twitter that I'll ask you after the break, Kobie. Somebody asking what congratulatory thing should we say to our Barbadian friends? Maybe happy independence day, maybe happy founding day seem imprecise, but we'll ask you if there's a greeting that should go along with today when we continue in a minute on the day that Barbados has declared itself a Republic. Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Before we continue, the last mention from me of the fact that today is Giving Tuesday, which is a day, during the end of the year shopping season, when nonprofits like ours remind people that this is also the time of the year that many donors make their contributions to charities, cultural institutions and other nonprofits like ours. We would like to ask that you make a donation to WNYC or consider one. If you're already a member, thank you for considering an extra contribution on this Giving Tuesday if you think we've earned it. We also know we have many new listeners this year for a variety of reasons.

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We continue now with Kobie Broomes, First Vice President of the Barbados Youth Development Council, and a Multimedia Specialist at Barbados Today on the occasion of Barbados today, declaring itself a republic, which means Queen Elizabeth is no longer technically the head of state, It is now Barbados's own elected president, Sandra Mason Kobie, let me ask you that question from the tweet. What are people saying to each other in Barbados today? Is it happy Independence Day? Is it happy Republic Day? Is there a term that's developed that we can say to our Barbadian friends if we come across people today?

Kobie Broomes: Well, today is Independence Day, Republic Day, we still haven't announced a date that we will actually celebrate Republic Day own, but today is Independence Day, so happy Independence will work. As some of my creative people on Twitter have captioned it, we're going by Indie-Public. Combining Independence and Republic as well for today. When you see a Barbadian anywhere, and I'm pretty sure you will notice them because they will be wearing their colors, they will be wearing their flags. You'll see them out today, you can tell them happy independence.

Brian Lehrer: What are the colors?

Kobie Broomes: Our colors are aquamarine, gold, and black.

Brian Lehrer: As we celebrate Barbados, by the way in the Southeast, I always like to talk about where things are, the map, that a lot of Americans might not know where they are. We were talking about Ghana in that respect early in the show where our Mayor-elect, Eric Adams, and I felt I had to tell people that Ghana is 4,500 miles away from South Africa. "Oh, God, Omicron." That's 4500 miles. Barbados, how would you put it? I'd say Southeast Caribbean, well Southeast of the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico and Haiti, for example. Really closer to the mainland of South America, Venezuela, Guyana than it is to the mainland of the US.

Kobie Broomes: Yes definitely.

Brian Lehrer: Down around St. Lucia, Grenada, North of Trinidad, Northeast of Trinidad and Tobago like that, right?

Kobie Broomes: Yes, most definitely. We are closer to South America. I would say it probably would take about 40 minutes to get down to Trinidad, so probably bout an hour to get to South America by plane.

Brian Lehrer: Janet in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. I think we have you now, Janet, hi.

Janet: Good morning. My grandmother came through Ellis Island in the early 1920s, like many women of that generation from Barbados in the West Indies. Worked as a maid, was able to send a daughter to Brooklyn college and a son who became a Jazz musician. In the 1960s, 1966 when Barbados attained its independence, she returned. She returned as an immigrant who had been very successful. It's very interesting in the 1990s, late 1990s, her grandson returned to Barbados to live with his wife and family.

At the last Olympics, his daughter, Lonnie Cabrera, represented Barbados as a swimmer in the Olympics. It's full circle in a way. Many of her relatives, her sister sent many-her sister's children, they became successful in this country. Happy Independence, Barbados. Thank you for all that you gave our family. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Janet, thank you. What a wonderful call.

Kobie Broomes: It is.

Brian Lehrer: Kobie, she mentioned that swimmer. Who else would you say? I read that Rihanna was declared a national hero today by President Mason, correct?

Kobie Broomes: Most definitely. Brian, I actually had an interview yesterday with a Dutch newspaper, and he asked me, "How do Barbadians feel about the Queen not being the queen in Barbados anymore?" I joked and I told him, "Well, really there's no difference because Rihanna is our queen." I said that probably about a couple of hours before the actual ceremony because Prime Minister, Mia Mottley gave the surprise announcement last night that Rihanna was going to be our 11th national hero and the second woman hero that Barbados has had. Probably about 13 minutes ago, she received her insignia that she is now the newest national hero of Barbados.

Brian Lehrer: How about that? Maybe we can look forward to a new independent song.

Kobie Broomes: We are praying, we are hoping, we were actually hoping that she would sing the national anthem last night. [chuckles] We just brought that song for Rihanna.

Brian Lehrer: Sonia in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Sonia.

Sonia: Hi. Happy Independence Day. My grandfather went to Panama in 1903 for the building of the Panama Canal. I am a descendant of those men from Barbados. I still identify as Panamanian, but I'm also Barbadian. Congratulations, and keep going forward.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. How about Saanich in Newark who wants to talk about the Barbadian flag? Hi Saanich, you're on WNYC.

Saanich: Thanks. I went to a West Indies parade once, and I noticed that the Barbados flag has a trident in the middle, and it has a yellow line in the middle, two blue on the sides. The flag of Ukraine is blue on the top and yellow on the bottom, and they also use tridents as their symbol. Any connection? Are you afraid of invasion from Russia?

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Kobie Broomes: Well, no. Not to my knowledge if there's any connection. Based on what the national anthem talks about, the blue is for our lovely blue waters, our lovely seas. The yellow represents the sand and sun. The broken trident represented, in 1966, our breaking away from England. You can say it is fully, fully broken down. I don't know of any Ukraine connection, but I could speak, subject to correction, but from what I know, that that is the representation of the flag. Brian, I saw that on Twitter, somebody asked about a connection to Chinese investment. If I could speak to that.

Brian Lehrer: We have literally 10 seconds left in the show, but do your best.

Kobie Broomes: Yes, please. Essentially, that was something that was brought up in the British press. In Barbados, it really isn't more so fake news, but I guess that's something that we can talk about going forward, but no Chinese investment influenced the move to Republic.

Brian Lehrer: Kobie Broomes, First Vice President of Barbados Youth Development Council on the record saying that Chinese influence story is fake news. He is also a Multimedia Specialist at Barbados Today. Thank you again for this wonderful segment. Happy Independence.

Kobie Broomes: Thank you.

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