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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Now we turn to New Jersey. Senator Bob Menendez has been charged with conspiracy to act as a foreign agent of Egypt in a new indictment in addition to the previous indictment. Senator Menendez and his wife, Nadine Arslanian Menendez, were indicted last month on corruption-related offenses, and are accused of accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars of bribes in exchange for the senator's influence.

In the statement, Menendez wrote, "Piling new charge upon new charge does not make the allegations true. The facts haven't changed only a new charge. It is an attempt to wear someone down, and I will not succumb to this tactic. I again, ask people who know me and my record to give me the chance to present my defense and show my innocence," from Senator Menendez. Democrats nationally and in New Jersey are calling on Menendez to resign. If he does, Governor Phil Murphy would appoint to replacement until the next election.

Who might replace Menendez if his legal troubles continue to mount? Well, amid speculation, the governor has said he would not appoint his wife for the seat, but he left open the door that First Lady, Tammy Murphy might throw her hat into that race for next year's election. Joining me now to break down all that and more New Jersey news is Nancy Solomon, WNYC, reporter and editor, and host of the Ask Governor Murphy Monthly call-in show, which aired on Wednesday, and Nancy comes on after those. Hi Nancy.

Nancy Solomon: Good morning, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start with the new indictment. You went to air with Governor Murphy before it dropped yesterday, but can you tell us what's in this new one besides what I said?

Nancy Solomon: Yes. He, his wife, and the Egyptian American businessman, who's also charged in the earlier indictment, have been charged with conspiring to set up the Senator to act on behalf of the Egyptian government without registering with the Justice Department. You can act on behalf of a government, basically lobby for them but you have to register. This relates to the advocacy for Egyptian aid and Egypt, possibly then giving a monopoly to that New Jersey businessman for his Halal meat certification business. These facts were laid out in the indictment but obviously, this is a new charge they've added.

Brian Lehrer: Last month we had you on to talk about the first indictment. It alleges that Menendez, his wife, and three New Jersey businessmen engaged in bribery and corruption to help Egypt obtain aid and weapons. How does this indictment differ from last month's indictment, and as a reporter, what does this say to you about the potential alleged depth of Menendez's involvement with the Egyptian government?

Nancy Solomon: This is a huge deal. The alleged facts surrounding this new charge, as I said, they're all there in the first indictment. Maybe not they're all there, but a lot of them are there. They detail how Menendez met with the Egyptian officials, how he helped ghostwrite a letter to Congress that presses for more aid, that he worked for both monetary aid for Egypt and for the sale of weapons. This is a huge deal. It doesn't change much about the governor and the Democratic establishment in New Jersey. It doesn't change much about their response.

They have called on him to resign, and not much has changed around that, although you do see a few calls yesterday for the Senate to expel Menendez, not wait for him to resign. That came from progressive wing. It also came from a few people, it came from Andy Kim, who has said he would run against Menendez. I wouldn't call it a mainstream democratic effort at this point, to expel him.

Brian Lehrer: On Wednesday evening during a monthly call-in show with Governor Murphy, you asked him about Menendez and whether Democrats had any reason to think he would resign. Let's take a listen to what he had to say about that.

Governor Phil Murphy: There's a legal process underway, but I found the indictment to be, I don't know what word you'd use, graphic, shocking. Again, I'll repeat innocent until proven guilty, but this is really pretty harsh stuff.

Nancy Solomon: Was there disagreement among top Democrats in the state and leadership of the party about what to do?

Governor Phil Murphy: I don't want to speak for others, but no, not in my experience. This was so shocking than I think. Again, it is not innocence versus guilt, and I wish him the best in the legal lane. The question is, can you effectively continue to represent the interests of New Jersey, the residents of the state? I think sadly the answer is no, which is how I got to that answer.

Brian Lehrer: Governor Murphy with Nancy Solomon Wednesday, Nancy is here now. How are New Jersey Democrats reacting to the new Menendez indictments? Any updates on responses?

Nancy Solomon: Yes. There hasn't been much. I think Israel and Gaza is really dominating the conversation at the moment. I think all along for the last of couple weeks since the original indictment came out, I think the bribery and corruption charges were massive and the details were just incredible to behold of the stacks of cash and the money stuffed in his jacket pocket with his name embroidered on the jacket and stuff like that.

I think some of the worst allegations that were most troubling were certainly about his lobbying efforts on behalf of Egypt and what he may or may not have gotten in exchange for that, given his role as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which he has now been forced to step down from. I think there will continue to be just tremendous pressure on him to resign but it's a little early yet to say anything has changed.

Brian Lehrer: You asked Governor Murphy if he would appoint his wife, to which he said basically no, but he also said she's been "Overwhelmed with folks coming to her" and asking her to run. Menendez has refused calls to resign, as we said, but has said he would not run again. I think that's a piece that listeners may not know. Here's what Governor Murphy had to say when asked if his wife would run for the seat in next year's election.

Governor Phil Murphy: I think if she has news to break on this, she's going to be the one to do it. We'll stay tuned on that. Again, she's humbled and overwhelmed by what's come at her, and this is not something she was expecting. We'll see.

Brian Lehrer: We'll see. Indeed. Nancy, can you tell us more about First Lady Tammy Murphy and her political qualifications?

Nancy Solomon: Yes. It's been said that she has been more involved in his administration than any other First Lady has ever been. I think some, that's like a sign of the times that women are involved in the policy and politics in a way that they were shut out of for so many years. She has a little bit more juice at the table maybe than past first ladies ever had. She led the effort to improve maternal healthcare and especially to address the disparity in treatment and outcomes for women of color. That work has been broadly supported. She worked at Goldman Sachs and that's where they met, and she got off the career ladder to raise their four kids.

During this time that he's been governor, she's been a prodigious fundraiser, which when I mentioned that to him on the show the governor's eyes lit up. It made him very happy that I described her that way. That's something national Democrats are looking for. They want to see a candidate who's going to challenge Menendez, who they don't have to spend money on. They want New Jersey Democrats to come up with their own money for this race. Tammy Murphy is one of the likely people who can do that both because she can raise money and because they have money.

Brian Lehrer: The governor did talk about how he and his wife are laser-focused as he put it on upcoming legislative races in New Jersey. The entire state legislature is up for reelection on November 7th. What are some key races Democrats are going to be fighting for coming up?

Nancy Solomon: I'd say the most interesting race is Republican Senator Ed Durr. He's the guy, the truck driver who beat the president of the State Senate and the lieutenant of the most powerful political machine in New Jersey last time around two years ago. He did it with virtually no campaign money. He's facing John Burzichelli, who was an assemblyman who lost his seat in the last election. It's an interesting race because it's a test of the formidable South Jersey machine.

It'll also tell us something about how much the Democratic Party has lost white working-class voters. This district is a very purple district. I think we'll be able to see some of that in the results. It's a seat that could-- Nobody knows. It could go either way. There's another interesting race. Vin Gopal in Monmouth County. He's been considered a rising star of the Democratic Party in the state. He's being challenged by Steve Dnistrian, who is a relative newcomer, and he's from Colts Neck.

This is an area that has seen a ton of controversy around parental choice in schools related to gender and sexual identity. I think people are watching it because of that. This is a very, very low-turnout election. It's a statewide election, but it has no federal positions on it at the top of the ticket. Very low turnout. These are the places where real upsets can happen. If Republicans are successful getting out the vote, all kinds of races that we aren't paying attention to could-- The potential things could flip. It's going to be an interesting night. We're less than a month away.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take some phone calls for Nancy Solomon in her role as host of the monthly Ask Governor Murphy call-in show. Now, you can call in and talk to Nancy about the clips of Governor Murphy we've been playing. We have one more to go about the Menendez scandal, about who you would like to see as the next Democratic nominee for Senator from New Jersey, anything about the elections for state legislature going on right now. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text. Let's take a call right now. Here's Jim in Ocean County. Jim, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Jim: Hey, good morning, Brian and Nancy. The issue of that Mercedes-Benz draws or should draw more attention. It wasn't part of a bribe per se, but a result of replacing a previous Mercedes-Benz that was involved in a fatal vehicle accident.

Brian Lehrer: Just to be clear, this is about a fatal car crash that Menendez's wife was involved in.

Jim: Correct. [unintelligible 00:13:12] in December 2018. According to all the reports, Nancy can fill in, but that was where a retired Hackensack cop supposedly was called in, didn't mention Menendez, but he was referring to a buddy. I don't know if she indeed got preferential treatment or not, but then the other question is if there wasn't a whitewash of--

Brian Lehrer: Whoops, Jim's line just dropped out but we're not whitewashing him. [chuckles] I think his question was clear. That car crash was before they were married, but were they already involved?

Nancy Solomon: Yes, they were already involved. It's definitely connected in so many different ways because the call that now Nadine Menendez makes on that night after the car accident that tragically kills a man is to the wife of the real estate businessman who is also indicted in this case. She's having dinner apparently with a former Hackensack cop, a retired cop, and asks him to go over and help Nadine.

This is probably going to blow up, this part of the story because that cop has a really interesting, and I'll put interesting in quotes, past and has come up a few times in terms of connections to a mob hit of a mobster, Frank Lagano, and the possible questions raised about his relationship with the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office. This guy is connected to that. That story. This story is going to keep giving and giving and giving, this Menendez story.

There are so many parts of it that are just mind-boggling. The caller is right. The Mercedes-Benz that was given to Nadine by another one of the businessmen in the indictment was given to her because she didn't have a car because her car was not wrecked, but was damaged in that accident. Now, there are all kinds of questions. It looks like the attorney general who supervises all the county prosecutors is looking into whether anything untoward happened, questions about why she wasn't tested for any kind of alcohol or drugs that night, that kind of thing. This is one of the many side stories to the indictment.

Brian Lehrer: Chris in Orange, you're on WNYC. Chris, hi. I'll just warn you, our phone system for some reason has been dropping a number of calls, so hopefully it'll get through yours. Go ahead.

Chris: Great. Thank you so much, Brian. First time, long time. Thanks so much for covering New Jersey. I think you have a lot of New Jersey listeners. I really appreciate all the great work that Nancy Solomon does. Just a quick question for Nancy. Offshore wind is a really important topic for New Jersey in general in terms of creating that green energy economy we really need in our state. I'm wondering if you have thoughts on what is happening with offshore wind and the opinion of the politicians and how it could have an impact on the elections coming up and how much you're hearing of that?

Nancy Solomon: This is one of the top issues going on in the state and has been for the last six months or so. Basically, what has happened is there has been a tremendous amount of pushback. The caller obviously knows this, but for everybody else, there's been a tremendous amount of pushback about wind power because there were statements made and newspapers and the press picked it up that whale deaths on the Jersey Shore were on account of the survey boats that are starting to survey the bed of the ocean to install windmills out there.

There's also a ton of pushback from people who have houses at the Jersey Shore about what impact this is going to have on their views or on their business, on tourism. There is no connection between whale deaths and wind power currently. Those survey boats have mammal monitors on them that look out at-- A lot of the whales are being killed by ship strikes, but it's not wind ship strikes. It's other kinds of ships out there.

This has become a huge issue and the polling suggests that those who are opposed to wind power and some of the money comes from the gas and oil industry to fund these kinds of efforts, that they're having an impact on voters and residents. The polling shows that tremendous support from both parties to support wind power is now on the decrease and it is thought to be an issue that will affect some of the legislative races that we're going to have coming on November 7th.

Brian Lehrer: Chris, thank you very much. John in Bradley Beach I think on another of the legislative races, you're on WNYC. Hi, John.

John: Hey, Brian. Longtime, multi-time. I'm glad that Nancy mentioned the 11th District of Vin Gopal race and the education issue. I just wanted to say that some of the material that the Republicans are putting out, it's just pure nonsense. If you're paying attention to national politics, you've seen this nationally and in Virginia's last governor's race specifically. They're just putting out all sorts of falsehoods on Vin Gopal.

Yes, he chairs the Senate Education Committee, but that does not mean that changes that were made under the Christie administration, that the legislature and bipartisan supported. They're saying things like, "They're sexualizing kids. They're teaching sex acts to third graders." It's just all nonsense. It's silly. The one thing that Senator Gopal did is make sure in legislation that passed recently is that he empowered every parent in the state by saying if you don't want your kids to have this education, you can opt-out. He empowered parents, but the Republicans are trying to say that he's done the opposite and it's just all nonsense.

Brian Lehrer: Nancy?

Nancy Solomon: I think that's a terrific point to bring up. Governor Murphy has said this on the show several times, and it has come up many. I've heard the attorney general talk about it because he's pushing back and requiring school districts to abide by the laws that protect anybody but children in this case specifically who have a sexual identity or a gender identity that is non-conforming. They've both pushed back hard on this idea that parents don't have a choice because they argue parents do have choice and parents are involved and they are able to come in and meet with teachers and are updated on what's going on with their kids. There have been a lot of statements made that are basically not factual. Then obviously opinions run very high. I think all of this is very much a factor in the race and that there are things as the caller said unfair charges being made.

Brian Lehrer: Here's another kind of New Jersey politics question that's not actually about state politics. Oh, you know what? I just lost my ability to put that on the air. Can you take the call that was going to ask about Congressman Kean? Are you seeing that call? Mary, can you hear me? Okay. Our whole system went down in terms of taking calls. I apologize to everybody. I'm sure it'll be back up in a minute. Nancy, I'll pose the caller's question as I understood it, which is given the chaos in the House of Representatives with respect to the speaker's race right now, has Congressman Tom Kean taken a position?

Governor Phil Murphy: I guess it's a good point. I don't know how big, and I should know this. I don't know how large the population is, but it is in the general neighborhood of this stuff we've done pretty consistently and I'd be very much open-minded to that.

Brian Lehrer: Let's see. Sorry folks. I have to get a handle here on how bad our connection issue is right now. Nancy, can you hear me?

Nancy Solomon: Yes, I hear you and I heard the tape.

Brian Lehrer: That was a clip about something else. The question from the listener was about Tom Kean Jr. He of course is in what is probably the swingiest swing district for next year's congressional races in New Jersey. Republican who defeated Tom Malinowski in the last election. Has Tom Kean Jr. staked out a position on the speaker's race?

Nancy Solomon: Oh boy. I would have to start quickly scanning my inbox to see what press releases he's put out because I'm not on top of this. I think he's a backbencher at this point in his career. He is brand new, so he's not somebody who's in the leadership. I would never call Tom Kean Jr. a moderate because I've been covering politics for so long and I don't think of a moderate Jersey Republican as someone who stakes out his positions. In the current scheme of things in Washington with the current National Republican Party, he actually is a moderate compared to them. I don't know who he's supporting. I'm sure he is very unhappy about the churn and the collapse and the inability of the party to get someone quickly into that position. Beyond that, I can't really say who he has said he would support.

Brian Lehrer: I want to replay the clip that we just played in trying to take that call instead because I want you to address this issue too. One of your listeners on Ask Governor Murphy on Wednesday asked about stipends for graduate students. In New Jersey, undergrad students are the only ones eligible for a $3,000 stipend. Here's what the governor told your listeners.

Governor Phil Murphy: I think it's a good point. I don't know how big, and I should know this. I don't know how large the population is, but it is in the general neighborhood of the stuff we've done pretty consistently and I'd be very much open-minded to that.

Brian Lehrer: Nancy?

Nancy Solomon: This issue is a little confusing because there are a few different things going on. He talked about some of these things. Murphy is trying to get more teachers trained and hired to address shortages in the K-12 education system in the state. He has also worked to reduce what it costs for New Jersey kids to go to college in state. At the point where he said that he seemed to be talking about getting more stipends for graduate students who want to teach. That would become part of this Blue Ribbon commission that he set up to address teacher shortages.

There is also this other idea of just making college more affordable. To be fair, the bigger issue that affects many, many more students is two-year and four-year college affordability. Murphy's made gains on that. It was unclear to me exactly what he was open to doing, and I think the whole conversation was a little bit muddled on that.

Brian Lehrer: We will have to leave it there for today. My guest has been Nancy Solomon, WNYC reporter and editor, and host of the Ask Governor Murphy monthly call-in show, which aired on Wednesday. Nancy had a conflict yesterday, but usually, you can look forward to her coming on the morning after Ask Governor Murphy. Okay, it was one day late. Kill us. Nancy, thanks so much for coming on.

Nancy Solomon: [laughs]Thanks, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. More in a minute.

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