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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. During this fall pledge drive, we're talking to some of our favorite professional advice-givers on thorny issues, from parenting to creativity to finances. Today, we eat. After months and months of more home cooking than many people did before and perfecting, we help perfecting, pantry meals, are you sick of your own flavors and recipe rotation? My next guest can help. Also curious on the flip side, listeners, did the pandemic force you into new meal prep patterns that you now plan to keep? 646-435-7280. With Melissa Clark, cookbook author, and food and recipe writer for The New York Times. Hi, Melissa, welcome back to WNYC.

Melissa Clark: Oh, great to be here, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we're going to open the phones for how the pandemic changed your cooking life forever. Call and tell Melissa Clark how and ask for any piece of meal planning or food prep advice you might need today, 646-435-7280, or call in and tell us what recipe that you used a lot during the pandemic you can't stand the thought of cooking again.

Maybe Melissa Clark will give you an idea of something, let's say, similar in skill set and preparation so as not to be intimidating, but totally different in taste. Any of that at 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280 if you have a question for Melissa Clark. Melissa, I'm going to jump right in in the middle of nothing in particular and ask you aside from sharp knives, what's the kitchen tool that most people don't think is totally necessary but absolutely is?

Melissa Clark: Oh, I would absolutely say the Microplane grater, because people think it's just for lemon zest. If you like garlic and, Brian, I think you like garlic and I know a lot of your listeners out there love garlic and ginger, it is such a boon. It is so easy to prepare just a little bit of garlic or ginger on the Microplane. Instead of having to chop it, you just grate it right through and you get this amazing just puree of pure garlic flavor that you can stir into anything.

I use it in my vinaigrettes every single night. It's also just great to add a little bit of oomph to the end of a stew or a sauce. It costs under $20. If you don't have a Microplane yet, I would suggest going and buying one because it really makes a big difference. You can also use it for lemon zest, which is great.

Brian Lehrer: That's a great one. Another random question. You've said sometimes a recipe morphs into something you didn't expect. Instead of considering it a failure, turn it into a positive by changing the name. Have you done that? I can't wait to hear one of these names?

Melissa Clark: On my God, that's my dirty little secret. Yes, that's the thing. I think it's all about managing expectations. When people have an idea of what a dish is in their head, even if it's still delicious but it's not exactly that same dish, they might be disappointed. It's up to you to just know what you have in that pot and then change the name. I have served my guests bitter eggplant salad. It's supposed to be a little

bit bitter. You know when sometimes eggplant is just a little bitter. If they're expecting it, it doesn't bite them. It's like, "Oh, this is actually really good despite that."

Another great thing is, say that you have a chili that you've made and it's not quite as spicy as maybe you'd want it to be, you can always add a little bit of spice at the end. You can also change the name and instead of calling it chili, you can call it a fricassee, for example, a ground beef fricassee with beans, or on the flip side, if you've made something too spicy, just lead with that, just go with it. Just say, "You know what? I am serving you three-alarm of red hot super fiery lentil soup," or whatever it is that you accidentally added too much spice to.

If you've added too much salt, just call it salt and pepper. This is salt and pepper chicken, it's supposed to be a little salty. Lead with it and own it and pretend that you meant it that way. Obviously, it could still be good to eat. You don't want to serve something that's bad. If it's something that's just not exactly as you planned, just roll with it and give its best [unintelligible 00:04:26] forward.

Brian Lehrer: Your bitter eggplant story reminds me of something that happened to me just last week. I was at my local farmers' market. One of the people was selling this gigantic zucchini and I thought, "Oh, great. I'm going to have a zucchini for days." I love zucchini. Bought a gigantic zucchini and it was not very flavorful. My question for you is, does the size of something like an eggplant or a zucchini matter to the taste?

Melissa Clark: It can. Zucchinis are a great example, Brian, because zucchinis can be really watery. The bigger they get, the more watery they tend to get, and also the more seedy. The seeds are bigger and more pronounced. You definitely want to look for-- Zucchinis you want them to be on the smaller side. Eggplant doesn't matter as much, especially because it depends on the variety of eggplants. Some eggplants just grow bigger. Some are smaller, and they're meant to be smaller. They're harder to tell. Zucchini, yes, go for a smaller zucchini.

Another thing is you want to look for firmness just as important as size. If it looks like it's a little wrinkly around the skin, especially at the stem end, you want to look for wrinkles, you want to look for soft spots. That's another thing. Always go for firm, for its size. Say you're talking about an eggplant, even if it's a big one, as long as it's firm and not wrinkly, it's still probably going to be good. Zucchini you want a little bit smaller. Tomatoes does not matter the size at all. You just want to look for, again, firmness. You want it to feel heavy in your hand when you pick it up because that means it's got lots of juices in there and that's the best part.

Brian Lehrer: Small zucchinis, now you tell me.

Melissa Clark: Now I tell you.

Brian Lehrer: Jerilyn in Manhattan, you're on WNYC with Melissa Clark. Hi, Jerilyn.

Jerilyn: Hi. Thanks, Brian. Melissa, I'm a huge fan. My question is, with the pandemic, I had my two adult sons living at home and now I'm going from dinner for four to dinner for two for just myself and my husband, more plant-based, less pasta

in grains. Please help me with some suggestions. Thanks.

Melissa Clark: Oh, yes, plant-based, I think a lot of us are starting to really move in that direction if we haven't moved there already. Going with plant-based is great. If you're already starting to do that, you're probably familiar-- You're probably already in beans, lentils, pulses, those are some of I think the best. If you're used to eating meat, and you want to gradually eat less meat and eat more plant-based things, beans are going to be your best friend because they're hardy and they've got so many different varieties.

You can eat chickpeas one night and lentils another night, and they're not like each other at all, and so you can keep things different. Try varieties of beans that you've never tried before. If you've never made kidney beans from scratch, that's something you can try because they taste completely different from the ones in the cans. I would say really, learn about your pulses and your beans and don't just rely on cans. Start trying to make them from scratch because they're actually really easy. Big secret about dry beans, you don't have to soak them.

Especially if you have an electric pressure cooker, you just throw them in and just make sure to salt them at the beginning. So many people believe in the myth of not salting beans till the end. Actually, if you salt your dried beans at the beginning, they will taste better. I would say explore that. Also, if you still are [unintelligible 00:07:58] on tofu, give it another chance but this time try baking it on a sheet pan coated in a little corn starch, a little bit of oil, and throw it in there at high heat.

I swear to God it tastes like fried tofu except you're not fried. Those are some easy things that you can start with. Then just keep coming back at nytcooking.com. We have a lot of recipes for meatless or low meat entrees that you can check out. I know we have a really great one right now for a sheet pan noodle dish. You can use whole-grain noodles for that as well.

Brian Lehrer: I hope that helps, Jerilyn. Elizabeth in Rockville Center, you're on WNYC with Melissa Clark. Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: Hello. You talked about the pandemic and a lifesaver for me had been at-home section in The Sunday Times. It had a page five, this is to cook this week. I have got such great recipes from that. I never cooked on a sheet pan before but there's a recipe with shallots and sausage and apple that is to die for. I kept every one that you published and I have it right here in a big stack of plastic sheets.

Melissa Clark: I love that.

Brian Lehrer: I bet that makes you feel great, Melissa.

Melissa Clark: I love it. I love hearing that. Thank you for keeping them. You can also find them online. If you want to dust off that table where they all are, just go to nytcooking.com and all the recipes will be there for you.

Brian Lehrer: Elizabeth, you have any question for Melissa today while you're at it?

Elizabeth: No, I just miss that page.

[laughter]

Melissa Clark: Oh, okay. I hear you. I know during the height of the pandemic, we were bringing this at-home section for people because we were all at home. What are you going to do when you're at home? One thing that everybody was doing was cooking, and that was great. Keep cooking. I'm thrilled that you called to tell us that. Thank you. [laughs]

Brian Lehrer: Victoria in Manhattan, you're on WNYC with Melissa Clark. Hi, Victoria.

Victoria: Hi. I have to apologize because I think my comments are going to be much like Jerilyn's. Melissa, I've always followed you forever, but casually. Since the pandemic though, you've become my absolute cooking guru and your dishes are just fantastic. Whenever I've used your pasta dishes, your chicken sheet pan dishes, I just took out chicken to cook the chicken and sweet potato recipe that's like fried chicken, but a little healthier because you roast it. Everything has been so fantastic. Whenever I find a new ingredient, I look it up with Melissa Clark, whatever it is.

Melissa Clark: [laughs].

Victoria: Search Melissa Clark. You're my absolute go-to. You've been so important, especially during the pandemic. I just wanted you to know how much we appreciate it. If any listeners haven't followed, really you're missing out because you're a huge blessing for all of us. Thank you.

Melissa Clark: Oh my Gosh. Thank you so much. Brian, can I come on your show every other day? [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Yes, just to give your ego a boost to get you through the day. Victoria, thank you very much. Before we run out of time, Melissa, do you get the sense that the pandemic changed certain things for people even now that they can go back more to normal?

Melissa Clark: I do find that people have learned how to cook. They've got more comfortable in the kitchen during the pandemic. It's just something that I hear all the time. People would say, "Before the pandemic, I was cooking but I was just cooking to entertain or I was cooking every once in a while." During the pandemic, people got into the kitchen and they cooked almost every meal at home. I think it really gave them confidence. What I'm seeing is people who are excited to keep cooking and excited to do it, to cook Thanksgiving dinner, and to cook meals for other people.

They've been cooking for themselves and their families. They may be ready to branch out a little bit. They have increased confidence, you're trying new things. At the same time, they still want dishes that work. They want to make sure that what they're going to cook, at the end is going to come out great. They're using recipes online or using our recipes at NYT Cooking, which is fantastic. That's really what I've seen. I've seen this increased confidence and also this increased love. I really think

that when people cook, it makes them happy, especially when the food turns out well, which mostly it does.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing, on the flip side, is there any food trend of recent times that you're hoping will not survive a third pandemic winter?

Melissa Clark: Oh my God. I feel like as far as food trends go, I would like to say one thing that we did see alongside people cooking more, unfortunately, we saw people ordering in more because they weren't going out to restaurants. That's something that I think I would rather see people cooking and ordering in a little bit less and maybe going out to restaurants a little bit more if they feel safe doing that. That would be the trend I would most like to see. If you can go out, while the weather holds, if you can be outside, it's the glorious sunny day in New York, that would be the trend I would like to see the most. Cook more, maybe go to restaurants more, maybe order in a little bit less.

Brian Lehrer: Melissa Clark, New York Times food columnist, author of many cookbooks, including the forthcoming Dinner in One: Exceptional & Easy One-Pan Meals. Thanks so much for coming on. This was great.

Melissa Clark: Thanks for having me, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. More to come.

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