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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Did you hear the news? Your favorite actors might be going on strike as soon as today. Last night, negotiations between the Screen Actors Guild and American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, the union conglomeration known as SAG-AFTRA, which represents 160,000 actors, and the Alliance of Motion Pictures and Television Producers, known as the AMPTP, which represents studios and streaming companies like Disney, Hulu, Netflix and more, failed to produce a mutually agreeable contract by the deadline they were aiming for of last night.

Any time now, SAG-AFTRA is expected to announce whether or not its members will go on strike sometime today. Now, this comes as the Writers Guild of America continues their months-long strike against the same group of companies. Recent reports have shared that the studios allegedly plan on dragging out the strike until the WGA "bleeds out" and writers start "losing their apartments". A note of full disclosure, SAG-AFTRA also represents many radio and television employees around the country, including me and many of us at WNYC. We were able to vote on this strike authorization, but the strike vote would not apply to TV and radio stations.

It's specifically for those working under SAG-AFTRA contracts with the studios. Just to disclose and to be clear, but we'll now take a closer look at the details of the negotiations between the parties and what a double strike might look like if actors do join the picket lines with the writers. Joining us is Samantha Chery, Features breaking news reporter for The Washington Post. Samantha, thanks so much for coming on. Welcome to WNYC.

Samantha Chery: Thank you for having me, Brian. I'm happy to be here.

Brian Lehrer: These negotiations collapsed last night. The SAG-AFTRA actors' contract has expired. I know it's early in LA where the main offices are, but what's happening right now?

Samantha Chery: Yes. Right now, basically the leaders for SAG-AFTRA, they're going to meet at 9:00 AM their time, or noon Eastern Time. They're basically going to discuss and they will make the final decision, which they likely will, to actually call the strike for SAG-AFTRA. Then later on they'll talk more about the details of if the strike is on, about picket line locations, and where exactly they're going to. Basically the updates in terms of how they're going to strike.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take some phone calls maybe from any fellow SAG-AFTRA members. How did you vote on the strike authorization, especially if you're an actor, and how do you anticipate a strike may affect you? What are your current working conditions like and what demands or issues are most important to you? If you are an actor who may go out on strike, call or text us at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Samantha, maybe it's important to establish that when we say Hollywood actors, people are going to think of the big stars, name your A-list person of choice, but this is really about a lot of people who are not that famous, but make their living at this, right?

Samantha Chery: Absolutely, yes. Any sort of TV show or movie and every single actor that is in those productions is a member of SAG-AFTRA. From the background actors to the A-list actors, so this is really-- which they're likely to go on strike. This will absolutely shut down the entertainment industry.

Brian Lehrer: I see one of the major issues is the use of artificial intelligence, which over the last eight months, from what I've read, has become a major game changer across many industries, of course, as we know, across many industries, but in the film and TV production industry in particular, how is AI a threat to acting as a profession?

Samantha Chery: Yes. In the contract, with artificial intelligence being such an emerging technology, right now as the agreement was, there weren't really many protections or regulations in terms of how artificial intelligence and how these studios could use the actors' likeness and digital representation and how they could use AI to replicate that. With the new agreement and with the negotiations, SAG-AFTRA was trying to then set the ground rules as AI improves and develops, so that there is an agreement between the two parties of exactly how AI can be used and how the actors who would have this AI used with them, how they would then be properly compensated and credited with that.

Brian Lehrer: How about residuals? That's another big issue. I know that's an issue with the writers as well, but with the nature of streaming services and how they get paid for those compared to the old model of network television long seasons, right?

Samantha Chery: Yes, definitely. This is something that has also, along with artificial intelligence, has been a major negotiation point for writers as well. With residuals, in the traditional model, residuals were a lot more because you had the longer seasons in terms of traditional television. The residuals were more able to help actors so that they could continue to support themselves, whether they have a middle-class lifestyle when they're not currently in a project or when they're not currently acting on set, but with streaming services, there hasn't really been as much in terms of the actual amount of the residuals and allowing those residuals to then match the same type of work because of, I guess, the shorter work orders that these actors will get through streaming services. A big point for SAG-AFTRA is ensuring that those residual payments in the streaming era actually match.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call from Sue in Queens, who is a member of the union, I see, and wants to raise another issue that they've been negotiating over that we haven't mentioned yet. Sue, you're on WNYC. Thank you so much for calling in.

Sue: Oh, hey, Brian. Thanks. I was calling in because one of the concerns that actors have in this pandemic-- I've been an actor in the union for 20 years, is who is listening to the self-tapes that we make at home now? Who is listening to the commercial radio stuff that we're recording? Who's watching the TV and film stuff that we're submitting? Are we wasting our time? We don't get paid for auditions unless we're at the third, second callback. Then-- [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Can I jump in for a second and have you explain the term self-tapes to our listeners and how that's different from the past?

Samantha Chery: Oh, yes, sure. In the past, before 2020, we would go into Manhattan and audition for things in person. Nowadays it's very rare to do that. It's mostly just at home. You get the sides or the piece of the script and you just film it at home on your iPhone or whatever. Then you submit it to the casting director. Our agents are usually the ones who set this up for us. Then we submit it and then we wait and wonder. We used to go in person and see a casting director and get feedback and that was great. Of course it's great to work from home, but there's nothing like in-person human connection.

Brian Lehrer: Do you want there to be a requirement that they allow people to come in and audition in person, something like that?

Sue: I'm not sure, but I think what some actors would like is to know if someone's really watching. Did somebody really watch our self-tape? Did somebody really listen to it? Are we just sending this out to the ether and wasting hours and hours of our unpaid time away from family, away from other work obligations? That would be one. What are they doing with these tapes? Do we have to really audition for the entire thing? Can we just do part of it? Things like that, I'm not part of the negotiations, I'm just waiting.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. If you're willing to say, did you vote for or against the strike authorization? Are you anticipating what it would mean for you if you do go out?

Sue: Oh, yes. I mean, I did vote. I was really relieved, Brian, when you said TV and radio stations are not affected right now. I need to run back into the house and record some voiceover auditions and on camera. I'm like, "Okay, I'm still allowed to audition for that commercial." If it goes on strike, it means less money for us.

Brian Lehrer: Sue, thank you so much for calling in. Good luck to you. Samantha, are you familiar with the issue that she raised there of self-taped auditions?

Samantha Chery: Yes, absolutely. That's definitely one of the actor-specific talking points in terms of how unregulated and out of control SAG-AFTRA says these self-tapes have gotten. Thinking about that, that's one of the main negotiation points, just being able to regulate them and also bringing more options in terms of being able to audition for actors.

Brian Lehrer: Buzz in the Bronx. You're on WNYC? Hi, Buzz.

Buzz: Hi there. I'm a SAG-AFTRA member. I approved the strike that looks like it's going to happen. My wife was talking to her father-in-law just a few minutes ago. He says, "Well, those big actors out in Hollywood, they're all going to strike. Does that affect you?" A lot of people don't realize that the A-listers are certainly part of our union, but most of us are working-class actors and this is how we make our living. We just want a fair piece of the pie. As was being talked about before the audition situation, all the onus has been put on the actor in terms of time and money and all this kind of thing, and it's not fair. That's what we're trying to get accomplished here.

Brian Lehrer: Do you feel, by the way, Buzz, that you have backup from the A-listers who would presumably be able to financially withstand the strike if it goes on for a while more easily than people like yourself, as you were describing yourself? Are they coming out and being vocal? Have you seen it?

Buzz: Oh, sure. Well, I mean, I've been on the picket lines for the WGA before. We've had some big stars out there who were supporting us because most of them when you work with them, they're just like us. People know their names and they get a better deal than we do. Many of us are working for scale plus 10, in other words, another 10% goes to our agent, but we get the minimum in a contract.

We can negotiate up, and some of us do. It depends on the project. There are low-budget things now, micro-budget things. There's cable streaming. It's a very diversified industry. It's not just like you work in a shop as a plumber and plumbers get so much an hour and maybe some overtime. It's a very vertically integrated contract model. We're just trying to get a handle on that because like with everything else in America, the CEO salaries are times 26. We're doing a little better, but it's not keeping up with inflation and the way things are going now.

Brian Lehrer: Buzz, good luck out there. Thank you for chiming in and informing our audience a little more about this. You mentioned plumbers. So often when people think of union members, maybe they have a picture of blue-collar workers or a faceless membership. Of course, SAG-AFTRA's membership does include many of Hollywood's brightest stars. One actor who's been anticipating this strike for a while and speaking out is Mark Ruffalo. Here's a clip of him from the Writers Guild picket line back in May.

Mark Ruffalo: Hey, everybody, Mark Ruffalo here at the WGA strike showing solidarity with our brothers and sisters from the Writers Guild, asking the Directors Guild to join us, and soon the SAG Guild to be with us. We have to get our votes in before June 5th to authorize the strike from the actors. The board has already authorized the strike. Now we get the actors to vote yes for a strike. The stakes are so high. It's AI, it's streaming, it's the future. We need to fight this now or lose forever. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: That was back in May. Of course, the actors did vote to authorize. Now we've reached the deadline that the union has set for a successful negotiation that passed at midnight last night. The anticipation is that probably any minute now, the union is going to call a strike. If actors join in, Samantha, and my guest is Samantha Chery, who covers breaking Features news for The Washington Post, it would bring a very rare double strike. I'm just curious what people are saying the additional pressure of the writers being joined by the actors would be like for these studios in terms of the balance of power in the negotiations.

Samantha Chery: Yes. I wanted to also mention how strong that solidarity has been with the writers and actors this time around as they're seeing the conditions for a lot of writers and actors seem almost unlivable, unfavorable for them as they're trying to live their middle-class lifestyle. When we look at how historic this is for both the actors and writers to go on strike at the same time, this is something that hasn't happened since 1960.

There is a huge bargaining power within that because it will effectively really shut down the normal operations of a lot of these TV shows and movies because beforehand, before actors were pretty likely to go on strike, there were still pre-written scripts that actors could at least go through those. If there's no actors to be able to film anything and no scripts, it's definitely going to basically shut down all sorts of entertainment operations as we know.

Brian Lehrer: A little trivia. Wasn't Ronald Reagan the SAG president, Screen Actors Guild president during the double actors/writers strike in the 1960s?

Samantha Chery: Yes, he was. That goes to show not only how many actors are in SAG-AFTRA, it just goes to show how historic it is and how it will really affect all entertainment consumers.

Brian Lehrer: Then when he became president, in his first months in office, he fired all the air traffic controllers when they went on strike and set the template for decades of union busting in the United States. That's a footnote to history that Ronald Reagan was the SAG president during the last double strike. One more call. Christine in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Christine.

Christine: Hey, Brian. Hi, everybody.

Brian Lehrer: Hey.

Christine: Can you hear me?

Samantha Chery: Hi.

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Christine: Oh, I work in one of the allied businesses that supports the film and TV industry, which is a prop house. We have been severely impacted by the writer's strike and anticipate being shut down if the actors go out. Normally this time of year there's 40 plus productions happening. Right now there's only just a handful that had scripts in hand that were able to continue. We've had a severe downturn of business and I've even taken a pay cut. It's not just the people who work on TV and movies, it is bigger than that. It's all these small businesses that really depend on production.

Brian Lehrer: Are you in solidarity with the unions or are you feeling like it's a little selfish of them to go out on strike, which hurts your businesses and your incomes too?

Christine: No, I'm in solidarity with them. This is the right fight. I see from my work with set decorators how they're squeezed and asked to do more with less. This is the right fight. I support them 100% even if it impacts my life.

Brian Lehrer: Christine, thank you very much. 30 seconds for a last word. Samantha, I'm just curious if you or the people you speak to have any prognostication about how this ends, if the actors go out today as expected, it does put that double union pressure on the studios, but by the same token I quoted what had been reported, that the studios are digging in and they want a long strike until they make actors and writers start "losing their apartments and bleed them out". Is that a verified quote, and how does this end?

Samantha Chery: Yes, I also saw those quotes as well, and so for this, it's honestly not very clear how this ends, because it feels like the actors and writers are pointing the blame at the studios, and the studios are pointing the blame at the actors and writers. As we've seen with the writers, they've been on strike since the beginning of May, so it'll be interesting to see how both parties dig their feet in until they can all reach an agreement. Until then, we'll see lots of delays and cancellations in terms of what we see on our TV and film screens.

Brian Lehrer: Samantha Chery, Features breaking news reporter for The Washington Post. Thanks so much for coming on with us.

Samantha Chery: Thank you for having me.

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