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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Are you one of the millions of Americans, and I mean millions, traveling by air? This holiday weekend, AAA had predicted air travel to exceed pre-pandemic levels with three and a half million people traveling just by plane over the Memorial Day holiday. The article in The New York Times travel section by a flight attendant named Kristie Koerbel might have been something that you read while on the plane or maybe somewhere else.

Did you see it? 12 rules for airline etiquette. Very timely under the circumstances. We thought we would use Kristie Koerbel's article as a jumping-off point to hear your airline etiquette, pet peeves, and rules that you were to establish. What do you do on airplanes that you wish your seatmates did too, or even if they weren't sitting next to you? 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. If you were making a list of 12 rules for airline etiquette, what would you put on them? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692.

Not on her list, not even on her list, but maybe this should be rule number one, don't open the aircraft door before landing. Let's just stipulate that one after maybe you saw the news story about a man in South Korea who was arrested for doing exactly that on Friday. Fortunately, they had descended enough that no one died, but enough said on that.

The article was titled Never a Reason to Take Off Your Socks: A Flight Attendant’s 12 Etiquette Rules. There's one to start off with, there's never a reason to take off your socks, ooh, gross, on an airplane, or maybe you disagree. First on her list, once the article gets going, is one that maybe people consider the most debatable. She suggests asking politely if the person behind you minds if you recline your seat.

I thought reclining your seat on an airplane was a right, and they said it to the point past which, "You can't recline it," and impede on the other person's space, or at least the article says don't just slam it back without checking on the situation behind you. Is that one of yours? 212-433-WNYC. Another one, don't take someone else's bag out of the overhead bin to fit yours in. Yes, okay. Remember to flush, is another one. She had a couple of kid-related ones. One for parents, clean up after your kids. Pointing out the big messes might delay the next leg of a flight.

One for other passengers, don't discipline other people's kids. Did you ever do that to someone else's kids? Did someone ever do that to your kids, and you were like, "Don't tell my kids what to do"? 212-433-WNYC. Let's add to or reinforce former flight attendant Kristie Koerbel's 12 etiquette rules as published in The New York Times over this much flown-in holiday weekend. 212-433-WNYC, call or text it. We'll take your calls and texts right after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now a former flight attendant Kristie Koerbel's article in The New York Times, as a jumping off point, the article called Never a Reason to Take Off Your Socks: A Flight Attendant’s 12 Etiquette Rules. We will hear some of yours, starting with Sheila in Richmond, Virginia. Sheila, you're on WNYC. Hi, there.

Sheila: Hi, how are you?

Brian Lehrer: Good. What you got?

Sheila: One thing that drives me absolutely crazy is when people have small children on screens, playing video games, and it's really loud, and it makes me really nuts. I think that they should either have their children on headphones or just be much more mindful of the volume. I really restrained myself from saying anything because you just never know how things are received, but I wish that people would be a little more aware of that.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. A number of our callers I see are bringing up headphones in various ways. What do you think of this one? In Kristie Koerbel's article, which wasn't only about things to not do, but things you can do, she wrote, "Headphones are a perfectly acceptable conversation ender." Do you like that one?

Sheila: I do. I think that's a great idea, absolutely.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. That's interesting, right? Maybe the person in the seat next to you who you don't know is talking too much, and you want some space, or you just want to listen to something for the sake of listening to something. "Headphones are a perfectly acceptable conversation ender," says this article. All right. Sheila in Richmond, Virginia, thank you very much. Since one good Sheila deserves another, here is Sheila in Princeton. Sheila, you are on WNYC. Hello.

Sheila: Hey, Brian, thanks for taking my call. Just manspreading. I'm a small woman, pretty narrow, and people assume that I don't need the space and particularly the armrest. Just big old elbows taking my space. Don't love it.

Brian Lehrer: Sheila, thank you very much. Be aware of the size of the person next to you, or even just the presence of the person next to you. Kylie in Northern Virginia, you're on WNYC. Hi, Kylie.

Kylie: Hi, Brian. I double-tap everything that everyone has said thus far, and as a mother of a five-year-old, we're always aware of how much noise and sprawl the little boy is making. My two are, one is for airline etiquette. I loved during COVID when we loaded from the back of the plane. I don't know why that ended, but that to me, I think we need to revisit that as a part of airline etiquette.

Then for passenger etiquette, I've been on a million flights where the flight attendants have asked passengers raise your hand if you have a tight connection so everyone around you can see who you have a tight connection. Then, when the plane lands, people who did not raise their hand are getting up, and I'm like, "Why are you doing that? These people have a tight connection. If you don't, then please let them make their connection." I think that's a passenger etiquette item that I would love to see happen more frequently.

Brian Lehrer: That's a really good one. I've flown a million times, but I can't think right now of how they usually load the plane. If they don't load or board the plane, if they don't board the back part first, do you know, since you said your husband works for an airline, how do they usually do it?

Kylie: Yes, by group. First class goes first, and then they load-- You get on the plane by your group. I'm not saying you couldn't be in Group 2 and be sitting in Row 37, but I've never seen it. The times that we've gotten seats in the back of the plane, that's in Group 3, the first two groups have gotten on, the first third of the plane is full. I think it's from the front.

Brian Lehrer: Privilege instead of common sets. Kylie, thank you very much. How about-- Let's see. Well, we had Kylie in Virginia. How about Kyle in Williamsburg, but that's Williamsburg, Brooklyn, not Williamsburg, Virginia. Hi, Kyle.

Kyle: It is Brooklyn. Hi. Now, I've just been on JetBlue a few times, and after service and everything is done, they just turn off the lights and everything. Then a few minutes later, they pop them back on, and they hand out credit card applications, and they get on the microphone, and they make this grandiose speech about extra miles and everything. I just want to sit there in comfort. I don't want to be bothered.

Brian Lehrer: That's a good one. That's not for the passengers. There's an etiquette rule for the staff and for, I guess, the management programming what happens on the plane overall. Let's see. How about this one coming in via text. "I was once seated next to a young grandchild, grandma in the row behind us leaned over and liberally sprayed grandkid's seat, tray, table, armrest, et cetera, with a disinfectant spray without giving me any kind of a heads up. I had an asthma attack from the fumes and couldn't really catch my breath till we landed."

Here's another one, "I once had a person on a crowded flight from Hawaii to New York open a full box of pizza right next to me and proceed to eat the whole thing. He was sitting in the middle seat. As you can imagine, this was completely obnoxious. I said nothing." Thank you for those texts. Another one from the article in The Times, "Deal with your seating issues before you get on the plane."

Another seating one that she writes, "You don't have to switch seats if someone asks you." There's another, "Your rights, not just your responsibilities to others. You don't have to switch seats if someone asks you." That could lead to some hard feelings depending on the situation, but there you go. Christina on Staten Island, you're on WNYC. Hi, Christina.

Christina: Hi, Brian, thanks for taking this. Well, just to let you know that even sitting in first class, you are not immune to bad behavior, which I found and I don't always do it, but sometimes you get a deal on it. I'm sitting near [unintelligible 00:09:53] everything is fine.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, so did that woman who was seated next to Donald Trump once upon a time who testified at-

Christina: Oh, please. I know, right.

Brian Lehrer: -Eugene Carroll's trial, right?

Christina: Exactly.

Brian Lehrer: In first class.

Christina: Anyway, this guy gets on. He was very overweight. I have no problem with that, but he proceeds to take his shirt off. Oh my God. I thought I would die. The smell, the-- He was probably had been running for the plane. No recourse. The stewardess would not change my seat, not do a thing. It was a very difficult flight the whole way. I'm sorry, but I think that's my last time doing first class. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: Who among us thinks the wealthy are immune to bad behavior? [laughs]

Christina: Never mind. Just socks. How about shirts and everything else? No. Unacceptable. Anyway, thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Shirts and socks required. Christina, thank you very much. Paris in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Paris.

Paris: Hi, Brian. I just am constantly surprised how rude everyone is to flight attendants and other airline workers, as if it's somehow their fault that the airline industry is a mess and that we're all stressed while we're flying. I've flown for the last 12, 15 years for work, and I just think everyone should be nice. I think there's even a selfish reason to be nice, which is that that's how you actually end up getting upgrades is when flight attendants and other airline workers actually like you and you're not being a monster like everyone else on board. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: It's such a problem all over, I think, with people, for some reason, not treating as equal human beings, all kinds of service workers, whether it's a waitperson in a restaurant, or I don't know, a handyman or whatever it is. Where for some reason the client thinks that they have the right to be rude, or they don't see the person as fully human who are doing things like flight attendant jobs.

Paris: Exactly. I've seen it just get worse and worse over the last few years. I don't know if it's because of the pandemic or what, but it just feels like people have forgotten how to have etiquette to people who are working for them to get them from one place to another.

Brian Lehrer: I'm glad you brought that one up, Paris. Paris in Brooklyn. I wish we had Brooklyn in Paris, who we could take next, but we don't. We're going to take Diane in Floral Park. Diane, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Diane: Hi, Brian. Thank you. This is a great topic. My experience, and I would just like to put in a general request that men and women cover their bodies. For example, flying next to a man who was wearing one of those Marlon Brando t-shirts, or even similarly, a woman in very short shorts. We just don't want to be skin-to-skin. That's something I've experienced, and I would hope that people might respect that.

Brian Lehrer: This is definitely coming up. The socks, the other caller brought up the guy who took off his shirt in first class. You're talking about the short shorts. Listeners, I guess, respect everybody else's bodily autonomy becomes a theme here. I will read one more text coming in, and then I think we're out of time. Let's see. Since many people want to dunk on annoying kids, apparently here's this text.

"Unless you are offering some form of help, there should be a one-look rule at someone's crying baby or child. Please don't keep looking at us. We're sweating to fix the situation because it's even more stressful for us." There you go. Thanks to former flight attendant Kristie Koerbel for starting this conversation by writing that article in The New York Times, 12 Rules from a Flight Attendant for Etiquette on an Airplane.

That's The Brian Lehrer Show for today, produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, and Esperanza Rosenbaum. Zach Gottehrer-Cohen produces our Daily Politics podcast. Juliana Fonda at the audio controls. I'm Brian Lehrer. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned for Alison and, what I know you all really want to talk about, the finale of succession. I'll talk to you tomorrow.

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