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BrianLehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. On yesterday's show many of you heard we had a discussion with New York Times reporter Megan Twohey, subject of the new movie She Said about her landmark reporting that uncovered the depth of disgraced Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein's abuse of behavior towards women in the workplace, and ultimately kicked off the Me Too movement. During this time, people who had long remained silent about the sexual harassment and abuse they had experienced found courage in solidarity, and more of them shared their stories.

Due to statutes of limitations laws, many victims of sexual assault cannot seek justice in court. Now, thanks to something called the Adult Survivors Act passed in New York this year, people who are victimized as adults can retroactively sue their abusers during a one-year look-back period that begins tomorrow. Maybe this will help some of you listening right now to seek justice that you've so far been denied. With us now to talk about the Adult Survivors Act is Liz Roberts, CEO of Safe Horizon, the largest victim services nonprofit in the United States. Liz, thanks for coming on. Welcome to WNYC.

Liz Roberts: Thank you, Brian. It's great to be here and we appreciate your coverage of this important issue.

Brian: Listeners, is anybody out there right now who plans on seeking legal retribution for a sexual assault from your past or is trying to decide whether or not to go that route? 212- 433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or any other questions on the subject. Liz, let's start at the beginning. What is the Adult Survivors Act?

Liz: The Adult Survivors Act is a really important piece of New York State legislation that was passed and quickly signed into law this spring in Albany. It reflects an understanding that for far too long our laws throughout the country and here in New York State have really been out of step with the reality of what survivors of sexual assault experience. We know that it is so difficult to come forward after you've experienced a sexual assault. There are so many different barriers. The person who assaulted you may have power over you, may have made threats that you're very concerned about. You're grappling with your own trauma reactions. There may be shame and self-doubt, which is often part of the struggle for survivors.

What we had before this law was passed were statutes of limitations that set very short time limits for a survivor who might want to seek justice in the civil courts. We were able to get those statutes of limitation reformed at the state level back in 2019 to really reflect the reality of survivors' experience. When that law passed in 2019, that package of laws, it did not cover a large group of survivors who statutes of limitations had already run out. This one-year look-back window is an effort to really correct past injustices that we believe thousands, maybe tens of thousands of survivors in New York State experienced.

Brian: Tell us more about how this act mirrors the Child Victims Act passed in 2019 which is I think what you were just referring to. Now that we have three years' experience with that, have you seen at Safe Horizon that it's actually working for people versus let's say just retraumatizing them, but maybe they don't have the evidence to actually win in court?

Liz: That's a great question, Brian. Thank you. The Child Victims Act was passed in 2019, and at the same time, some other necessary statute of limitation reforms were passed. What the Child Victims Act did was it recognized that children who had experienced sexual abuse or sexual assault could not be expected to make a decision about bringing a case in a very short timeline after their abuse or after reaching adulthood, that we really needed to give children who had now grown up more time to make those decisions and more time to go through their own healing process.

For me, as an advocate who has worked with thousands of survivors in my career, I've seen that pursuing justice in a public setting really requires that a survivor have a level of stability and a lot of support in their life because it can stir up so many powerful memories and feelings and it can be a really difficult process. The Child Victims Act was passed in 2019. It provided a look-back window for survivors of childhood abuse, and more than 11,000 survivors brought cases under the Child Victims Act. It allowed them to bring cases both against an individual who harmed them when they were children or against an institution that really protected and permitted the abuse to continue.

We saw many cases filed and I think what we say to survivors, you asked about retraumatization. There is no doubt that the process of going through a litigation in civil court or criminal court can be very, very difficult. What we want survivors to do is really make their decision based on good information from a lawyer they trust. Also, the support and advice of people in their private life who support them, whether it's loved ones, whether it's a therapist or an advocate. It's a case-by-case decision for each survivor. What these bills have done is give survivors the opportunity to make that decision, to have the choice to go to court if that is right for them.

Brian: Why is there only a one-year look-back period? Should we question the existence of a statute of limitations for crimes of sexual assault at all? You mentioned the 2019 bill which extended the statute of limitations to 20 years after the alleged abuse. For new cases, this is the look-back period for old cases where the statute of limitations was much shorter, but some crimes like murder don't have a statute of limitations at all. Why for sexual assault and why just a one-year look-back period? Maybe it's going to take some people, some victims, a year from tomorrow when this goes into effect just to be ready to proceed.

Liz: That's an important point and of course, we would have loved to have the legislature include a longer look-back window. Every piece of law represents compromise. There were concerns and questions about the look-back window. This is something we're able to win, a one-year look-back window which is a huge, huge win for survivors and is going to benefit thousands.

Brian: We're going to talk now to one survivor for a few minutes who I guess is considering taking advantage of this look-back window and is a fairly well-known advocate in this area. Her name is Alison Turkos and she has sued the NYPD and Lyft. Alison, are you there? Do we have you?

Alison Turkos: I am here.

Brian: Thank you for joining us and giving us a few minutes and being willing again to talk about what must never be easy to talk about. Do you want to tell our listeners to whatever degree you're comfortable with what allegedly happened in your case?

Alison: Sure. In October of 2017, I did what so many of us who live in New York and honestly everywhere else, what we do. Around 2:30 in the evening or the morning on a Friday night, I ordered a Lyft because I didn't want to take the subway home and I didn't want to walk home. What should have been approximately a 15 to 17-minute ride home from Crown Heights, Brooklyn to Williamsburg, Brooklyn was 79 minutes and 44 seconds of the worst moments of my life. I was kidnapped at gunpoint by a Lyft driver and taken across state lines from Brooklyn into Manhattan, and then through the Holland Tunnel into Jersey City.

That is where the Lyft driver met up with multiple other men who sexually assaulted me multiple times. I have spent the last five years of my life not only seeking justice and accountability for myself but also a lot of accountability through the civil system and also through the criminal legal system. I think it's important just to note I reported what happened to me approximately 60 hours after the incident. I reported to the New York Police Department, I had a rape kit done at Brooklyn Presbyterian New York Methodist in Park Slope, and the last five years of my life have really been incredibly traumatic as I have been inside the civil court system. As you had mentioned, I'm suing the NYPD and the City of New York, and then also filing a lawsuit against the ride-share company Lyft.

The reason why the Adult Survivors Act has been so important to me and why I have fought relentlessly for the past few years alongside Liz and the folks at Safe Horizon, and then also just an incredible group of other survivors, is because relatively quickly my assault happened in 2017 and I filed both of my lawsuits against the institutions is because access to civil courts is, for me, a method of accountability. The two major institutions, the NYPD is the largest police force in the country. I'm not suing individual detectives. I'm suing the system as a whole. I think what the Adult Survivors Act really gives us an opportunity to do is to really shine a light and to bring sunlight, as James Baldwin says, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

It's one of the reasons why I was so dedicated is because, as we noted throughout the entire campaign, is that trauma takes time. While I moved very quickly to file these lawsuits, I also acknowledge that I am a high-functioning depressed person and it really took a toll on me to file these lawsuits so quickly. When we say trauma takes time, if you are a survivor who is listening to this, the message that I really want to send to you is that there is an incredible community who is here to support you and to answer your questions about how do I find a good lawyer. Do I have to pay that lawyer? What is the consultation with a lawyer look like?

That's what I'm really spending the majority of my work and my time right now, is supporting survivors who are contemplating coming forward, answering their questions, being on the phone with them, meeting with them in person because I didn't have anyone when I was filing my lawsuits. I want to be there for survivors who are making this decision now.

Brian: How do you do that? For any survivors who may be hearing you and thinking, "Well, gee, I would love to take advantage of that offer and have a consultation with Alison Turkos," What should they do? Should they contact you? Should they contact Safe Horizon?

Alison: Yes. I'm very easy to get ahold of. Oftentimes, you always hear people say, "Celebrities are just like us." I always say, "Survivors, they're just like us." Folks can DM on me on Twitter, they can find me on Instagram, you can find me on my website and send me an email that way. My social media handles are just my first name and my last name, A-L-I-S-O-N T-U-R-K-O-S. I deeply believe that a survivor should not have to pay a lawyer to look at their case. I deeply believe that survivors should know the difference between what it means to have a lawyer on retainer and what it means for your lawyer to take the case on a contingency basis, which means that not until your case is closed and there is some conclusion whether it's a settlement or anything.

I have gained all of this institutional knowledge. I am not a lawyer by any stretch of the means, but I have gained all this institutional knowledge over the past five years, and I don't want to gatekeep it. I want to be really open and honest with survivors. I'll get on the phone with folks and have conversations with them and folks might say, "I'm talking to this lawyer and they want to charge me $5,000 to go through documents and to look at my case." I immediately say, "No, you should not be paying a lawyer $5,000 to look through documents, to go through your police report, to have that conversation. That is wildly unfair."

I have conversations with survivors to help them understand that they have all of the power. I think oftentimes, we, as survivors, when we experience sexual assault, it can feel like we lose our internal compass. I know that Liz had talked about shame and a lot of self-blame. I think that when we have an opportunity, as the Adult Survivors Act has given us, and as we as survivors really fought for, when we have access to the civil courts and access to this method of justice and accountability, it is a way for us to take that power back and to take that control back. I think it is vital that when survivors are seeking some type of legal recourse, and we are partnering with lawyers, that those lawyers treat us with dignity and respect, that those lawyers know that they should be operating from a survivor-centric, victim-centric, trauma-informed space.

Not only am I working with survivors to support them through that process, but also partnering with lawyers to say, "What does your intake process look like? How many times are you asking survivors to tell their stories? Are you asking survivors what their pronouns are? It's really important to me that this entire process, the Adult Survivors Act, the lookback window opens tomorrow, but our work does not end there. While we have a year, I will fight relentlessly to extend that, but also to ensure that survivors are in control, that they are loved, that they are surrounded by community, and that they are in a space where they are trusted when they are moving forward with any type of legal recourse.

Brian: Alison, after that answer, I wonder if you would stay on along with Liz Roberts from Safe Horizon and talk to a caller who I think has a question relevant to some of what you were just laying out.

Alison: Of course.

Brian: That is Leslie in Green Lawn in Suffolk County. Leslie, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Leslie: Hi. Thanks for having me on. I had to spend an enormous amount of time calling over 30 attorneys, well over, and each phone call was, "How much is he worth? Did he abuse you in an institution?" For the record, I was born and raised by a pedophile for the first 16 years of my life and every lawyer just wanted to know how much he was worth, can it be a class action suit, was it in institution? One even said, "Is he a doctor?" because then he's worth more money. If you're middle class or below, nobody would take the case. Nobody would take the case.

Brian: Wow.

Leslie: It's political. This one-year look-back window actually started a while ago and was paused based on the pandemic. Then there was no justice to be had for it for the one in three, for the one in five boys and men, and for the one in three women. The optics of the politicians to do something about the Me Too movement, just line the lawyer's pockets with the class action suits and the big cases where there was money to be had, but people, individuals like me, there was no justice to be had.

Brian: Tell me what you would want from suing your alleged abuser if there is no money there. Are you looking for the court system to make a statement?

Leslie: I want to speak the truth and I want accountability. I want my day in court to be able to speak the truth of what he did to me for 16 years.

Brian: Allison, do you want to ask or say anything to Leslie?

Alison: Leslie, first and foremost, I want to say how proud I am of you just to call into this show and to name that. I think so often when we share our stories it can be an act of healing. I just want to say I see you and I believe you and I trust you. Secondly, I want to say that one of the things that I say to survivors so often and I ask the question of what does justice look like to you? I think Brian framed that question in the sense of if your desired outcome isn't about money, what is it? I think that the question of what does justice look like to you is a really great way to frame this and to ground this as you start on this journey. Actually not even start because you've obviously already really been here.

The reason why I ask that is to say is that when we as survivors file lawsuits, so often people think that it's about money. I so often want to say that it's not. When we file a lawsuit, it is because we want people to know this happened and what happened to us matters. I'll speak from an [unintelligible 00:19:32] I don't want to generalize survivors, but when I filed my lawsuit, I knew that it was going to be a public record and we as survivors know this. We can file it in state or in local or wherever, and just say, "This is my name and this is the name of the perpetrator."

Obviously, you can also file as a Jane Doe, but to say, "I need everyone, whether it's your family, whether it happened in a medical institution, whether it happened anywhere, but to say to say this is what happens to me and I need you all to see it because for so long people, as I turned a blind eye to it, no one wanted to acknowledge it." Sometimes it's even just the sole act of filing that lawsuit. I just want to say when I say I see you, what you are doing is incredible. Find me like in the ether and I will help connect you to a lawyer who will not treat you like a garbage human.

This is a thing that I'm really trying to do, is to help connect survivors to lawyers who are incredible. Often I think in the medical world we call them ambulance chasers, but lawyers who specifically will not ask you about how much money you're trying to get off of them or how much power because I think right now, Brian had alluded to the Me Too movement earlier. I think what's really important is that you have survivors who have been abused for years by members of their family, by people that they love. Those people are folks who deserve justice. It's not just people who have access to political capital. It's not just people who are in positions of power.

We don't know their names, but that does not mean that they don't deserve justice or access to healing. That's what the Adult Survivor's Act is going to do. That's what I think we really need to dedicate time to.

Brian: Leslie, go ahead. Go ahead. You can go.

Leslie: I believe that's spot on because this is my wheelhouse as well, because I will not be silent anymore. I won't be silent by the abuse or I won't be silent by anybody anymore. This is not the story of my life. This is the truth of my life and this is what happened. That was my only goal in this one-year look-back window, is to be able to speak the truth of my life and hold this person accountable.

Brian: Let me, Leslie, just repeat something that Alison said to you at the beginning of her response, and that is an acknowledgment of the courage that it must have taken, even just to call a radio show and speak publicly about this experience that you've had and then the dismissal that you've had by so many lawyers and maybe that invitation that Alison gave you to contact her somewhere in the ether. She talked earlier about reaching her on Twitter DMs or Instagram or her website. Maybe you can take advantage of that, but we appreciate your courage. We know you speak for a lot of people who aren't calling in or can't call in for whatever reason.

Liz Roberts from Safe Horizon, you've been very patient as we've been talking to Allison and that last caller. Anything in particular that you're thinking through these last few minutes or I can ask you a closing question as we begin to wrap up the segment?

Liz: There's a couple of things I was thinking about as I was listening. First, Leslie, I want to thank you for speaking up and for your courage and I know how important it is to be able to share the truth of what you've experienced in a public way and have it acknowledged. If we can be helpful to you in any way at Safe Horizon, I would love to speak with you and to connect you with our staff. Alison, you hear Alison's incredible passion and determination and she represents this remarkable coalition of survivors that fought for the Adult Survivors Act and before that for the Child Victims Act. I just want to say that the victory of getting both of these bills passed really rests with so many courageous, fierce, beautiful survivors who have really been determined to create opportunities for others to come forward.

I'm incredibly grateful to that group and it has been a true honor for us at Safe Horizon to really help create that, that platform where survivors voices could be heard. One other thing I want to mention is that we have set up some tools on our website. If you go to safe horizon.org/asa, there is a tool there for survivors who are thinking about bringing a case to help you choose a lawyer with some ideas about questions to ask and things to watch out for. I encourage anybody who's listening to this and thinking about, does this apply to me or do I want to take this step to please come to our website. There are some tools and some information there.

We also have counseling resources here at Safe Horizon and can support survivors through the process and would just love to support anybody who is asking themselves those really difficult questions at this time.

Brian: Let me take one more caller because I think Carol in Greenwich has a question about the Adult Survivors Act, which opens a look-back window for one year tomorrow on older cases where the statute of limitations had run out. Carol you're on WNYC. Hi.

Carol: Hi. Thank you. I don't understand why the statute is being extended for civil cases and not criminal cases. This diminishes women, but it's like allowing women to sue the thief who robbed their house instead of having the thief go to jail, instead of extending the statute for that. I don't get this.

Brian: What a great analogy. Liz, what's the answer?

Liz: Carol, thank you so much for that question. There have also been really important changes made in New York State and in other states to the criminal statutes. This was a gap in the statute of limitation reform in New York State that really needed to be filled to allow people to bring civil cases. I completely agree with you that the ability to bring a case in criminal court is incredibly important to any survivor who has been sexually violated and that we should make the opportunity to do that really as unlimited as possible.

Brian: Alison, anything to add to that? Then we're out of time.

Alison: It's just that I completely agree that statute of limitations in criminal cases must be extended and, to be honest, abolished as a whole.

Brian: Liz Roberts and Alison Turkos and callers, thank you very, very much for this segment.

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