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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Here we are in the first week of April. As it happens this year, Easter Week, Ramadan, and Passover are all happening at the same time. The three Abrahamic religions as they're called, are all in holy months. Easter's coming this Sunday, today by my count is day 12 of the month of Ramadan, and tonight begins eight nights of Passover. Get ready to eat some bitter herbs and sing Dayenu.

Now we will continue our series of call-ins on your relationship to your religion. It was for Christians Monday, Muslims yesterday, and today for Jewish listeners, pre-Seder, we invite you to answer any or all of the same three questions; how does your Jewish identity inform your sense of yourself, how does your belief in Judaism or your Jewish cultural identity inform your ethics in your personal life or in your politics, and how does your practice of Judaism or your relationship with it differ from your parents?

Especially for people under 40, and we've been getting really interesting calls along those lines, is your Judaism in practice or in your spiritual life different from that of your baby boomer parents, for example? 212-433-WNYC. We've had very interesting calls along generational lines the first two days of this from Christians and Muslims. I want to replay a couple of little excerpts from two callers yesterday, Muslim callers who were kind of opposite. One was becoming less observant than her parents, the other was becoming more so. Here's a little bit of Ruby, who just identified herself as from northern New Jersey.

Ruby: I am a first-generation Pakistani Muslim. My mother is a Pakistani Muslim who's a psychiatrist. My sense of Islam differs 180 degrees from her. I don't pray, I drink, but my sense of service comes from that. I think the reason I went into medicine is because of the idea of the [unintelligible 00:02:13] and giving in Islam. I don't fast, but I like the idea of intermittent fasting. I practice that and I tell my patients about that.

Brian Lehrer: As a contrast to that, here's one minute of Khadija in Morris County who called in later.

Khadija: I'm a first-generation American also, my family is from Afghanistan. I think the way that I practice that's different than my parents is that their Islam is a lot more cultural, whereas with me-- They tended to go to mosques that were more like mostly Afghans, and again, more culturally Islam, whereas I tend to go to more diverse mosques, where I feel like I sound like a pure version of Islam, that takes the culture out.

I actually even started wearing hijab before my mom did. My parents were hesitant, they didn't want me to wear it, they were pushing me against it, like, "You don't need to, forget it," but I ended up wearing it on my own and I feel like it's made me become a better person since because I am a symbol of Islam everywhere I go.

Brian Lehrer: Those were two Muslim callers yesterday, but I think maybe we're finding the same thing among many Jews today, people are becoming more observant or more secular, even if your cultural identification as Jews remains for just about everyone. Is this a thing for you, Jews under 40 especially? Are you reacting to your parents' practice of Judaism by either walking away toward a secular Jewish life or by craving something more religious and adopting it? 212-433-WNYC.

You can answer any of the three questions that we're continuing to put on the table. How does your Jewish identity inform your sense of yourself in any way? How does your belief in Judaism or Jewish identity inform your ethics and your personal life or your politics? How does your practice of Judaism differ from your parents? Jen in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jen.

Jen: Oh my goodness. [chuckles] Hello, Brian. I am so delighted to speak with you. You are just a gem in New York and on the radio and to journalism. Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you.

Jen: I am a product of a father who was raised Orthodox and a mother who was raised basically with the traditions of Judaism, but her father was an atheist because he was angry at the Jewish religion. I won't go into all the reasons why. My parents raised us in traditional Reform Judaism. I was not bat mitzvahed, but I went to religious school on the weekends. As I've grown older, I realized that I'm an atheist. I'm very science-based, but my ethics are definitely based in everything I learned in the Jewish religion. I still have a mezuzah on my door and on all the doorposts of every room, and I light a memorial candle for my parents and my loved ones. I love certain traditions, but I am not a practicing Jew at this time.

Brian Lehrer: You're able to completely detach, it sounds like, belief in God from your identification as a Jew, which is a religion, of course, that started from belief in God?

Jen: I think so. When you say detach, I don't believe in, as somebody once said, a sky wizard who will grant me whatever I want.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, but you said you're an atheist.

Jen: I have this challenge. I think I'm more an atheist than an agnostic. However, I do believe that we do go on and that we are energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed, just transformed.

Brian Lehrer: Right. I'm going to leave it there, Jen. Thank you so much. Do call us again. As you hear, despite her relationship with creation and life and death, and what that means, finding her sense of ethics, and even things she likes to do, like put a mezuzah outside her door is still coming from her Jewish traditions. Lily in Birmingham, Alabama, you're on WNYC. Hello from New York, Lily.

Lily: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Brian Lehrer: What's your thinking?

Lily: I wanted to just shed light on a community that I'm a part of. I grew up in a youth movement called Hashomer Hatzair or Camp Shomria, which is a socialist Zionist Jewish youth movement. We hold a lot of humanistic Jewish values, and there's something so special about being in Jewish space that I think makes youth feel safe enough to ask questions and to inquire. We do a lot of educating on politics in the United States and in Israel and around the world. I just think that having the safety of being around Jews, even if we're not practicing in a very religious sense, is what allows people to explore and be really on the side of human beings.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. Are you talking about a feeling of safety for being among people like yourself, in the sense of being Jewish, while trying to be politically in support of people not necessarily like you?

Lily: Totally, 100%. Within Jewish values, you talk about loving thy neighbor, and in the United States specifically, not all of our neighbors are Jewish, it's a very eclectic people, but when you're in a space to be able to ask the questions that you might not know, but you'd be embarrassed not to know, if you feel safe enough to do that, then you can really love the people around you and really be active for them.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think this would get reflected at any way at a Seder if you're participating in a Seder tonight?

Lily: I actually currently am doing a musical, we have a show tonight, so I can't go to one, but yes, if there's a level of inclusion of like anyone can come and listen and share and talk about the struggles of their people.

Brian Lehrer: Lily, thank you so much. Please call us again. Nina on Long Island, you're on WNYC. Hi, Nina.

Nina: Hi, Brian. I want to say, first of all, happy Passover. Zissen Pesach. I have in the past been at Seders with your parents in a humanist Jewish community in Queens.

Brian Lehrer: Oh my goodness.

[chuckles]

Nina: Please wish them my best. I was raised in a secular Jewish home. My mom was an atheist. My father had been raised Orthodox, but gave it up when he met my mom and her atheist mom in the 1930s, I guess. We were culturally Jewish all along. My uncle was the editor of a secular Jewish magazine, Jewish Currents. You know what happens when you have kids is you look for something with a connection, and so when my son was about 11, I joined a reform synagogue so that he could have a bar mitzvah. Then I found the humanist Jewish community, and my daughter had a humanist bat mitzvah.

What has happened with the next generation is my son went on birthright and became much more religious and has for the past probably 10 years become increasingly orthodox to the point where last year he wouldn't come to the Seder at my house because I'm not-

Brian Lehrer: Observant enough.

Nina: -Kosher enough.

Brian Lehrer: Wow. How about that?

Nina: I said, "Okay, you make the Seder," and we went to him. Interestingly, now this year, he's in a space of questioning. When I said, "Do you want to make the Seder?" He is like, "I don't know, mom." He's going to the first night Seder at the home of a rabbi's wife, a rabbi he knows, but he wants to come here tomorrow. I was like, "All right, but I'm not kosher enough for you." I think for me, it's always been about community. That's what my Judaism is about, feeling the connection to the community more than the spirituality of Judaism and the praying. The other thing I want to say is-

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you, what is-- Oh, go ahead. Make your other point then I'll have a follow-up question about your son.

Nina: The social justice aspect that I was raised with has been embraced wholeheartedly by my daughter, to the point where she spent Yom Kippur on Rikers Island leading a service. I have now become involved with justice for releasing aging people from prison. You probably know the RAPP.

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Nina: I just learned about a tradition that I'm going to include about putting the pine cone on the Seder plate.

Brian Lehrer: What is the pine cone? What does it represent?

Nina: That's to acknowledge all of the people in prison, all of the people that are incarcerated.

Brian Lehrer: I did not know that.

Nina: You know what? I wish I had it at my fingertips, but if you-

Brian Lehrer: Nina, let me ask you one follow-up question, what's it been like for you as a mom with humanist, meaning non-religious tendencies, to see your adult son become orthodox?

Nina: It's a challenge. I worked for 10 years in an orthodox nursing home, so I'm familiar with some of the-- What I've struggled with is I feel like I've been tolerant of him, but in his increasing orthodoxy, he has sometimes been judgemental of me. That's the constant struggle, to have my humanism and my secular lifestyle respected. That's why I almost did a little happy dance when he said he wanted to come here for the Seder because that means-

Brian Lehrer: A little reconnecting.

Nina: -[unintelligible 00:13:15] up a little bit and accepting.

Brian Lehrer: Nina, I'm going to leave it there. Thank you so much for your call. I hope your Seders are wonderful. Michael, in Portland, Maine, you're on WNYC. Hi, Michael.

Michael: Hi, Brian. As everybody does, I listen to your show now that I'm retired almost every day, and you are a gem.

Brian Lehrer: You're very kind.

Michael: Anyway, I just wanted to say that I grew up in New York. I worked 30 years in a hospital in New York, a very Jewish hospital. I didn't appreciate my Jewish roots till two things happened. One is that my parents who were German Jews who left in '38. The town where my father was born and was humiliated as a child, they got in touch with me in 2002 to do a memorial called, who was, my father's name, Eric [unintelligible 00:14:12]? I really started to understand what happened in Germany.

This year, I've taken a course in genocide, and the way it's described in this course is the great divide happening when the Christian religion was founded, and the differences between Jews and non-Jews was really accentuated. It's something that I never accepted, but there's such a strong history of singling out Jews. I feel very attached to it. I feel very much that it's something we have to accept. Tonight, I'm preparing a Seder for non-Jews and I'm very proud of that. Very proud of that.

Brian Lehrer: What do you mean a Seder for non-Jews?

Michael: My partner's Armenian and her son is Armenian, and a Catholic woman who's our friend. They're coming over and I prepare the Seder. It's such a beautiful holiday and I'm glad to share it. I was mixed about it, but I'm so proud now to be a Jew, understand where we really came from and what's happened, and hopefully prevent that stuff from ever happening again to anybody.

Brian Lehrer: Do you have a favorite part of the Seder ritual?

Michael: Oh boy. [chuckles] Yes, drinking wine.

[laughter]

Brian Lehrer: The universal donor, drinking wine. Michael, thank you very much. Miriam, you're on WNYC. Hi, Miriam.

Miriam: Hi, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Hello there.

Miriam: Hi, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: My screener told me you're taking a break from cooking your Seder meal to call the show. Is that right?

Miriam: That's right. I'm having like 15 people this evening. I'm a member of the Beis Community in Washington Heights and we're doing these Seders with neighbors. I'm having some people, some people I know, some people I don't, this evening. I'm really excited.

Brian Lehrer: What part of identity did you want to call and talk about?

Miriam: I'm a convert to Judaism. I've been doing this for a long time. It's been about 10 years since I converted. This can be a hard time of year for folks who don't have families to go to or feel separated from their families, but I just feel very grateful for all the Jews that I've met who have taught me so much about Judaism, whose traditions I take on and share with others. It connects me maybe to ancestors, but to the wider Jewish community.

Brian Lehrer: What made you convert to Judaism?

Miriam: I had a Jewish boyfriend in college. That was the impetus, but the more I studied, the more I found that beliefs about being good people and how we treat others were just things that I already believed in, were a major part of this religion.

Brian Lehrer: What religion did you grow up in, if any, and did they not have that same-- I think that's something that all the Christians listening to you would say, "Wait, that's what Christianity and Jesus are about." Muslims would say, "Well, we talked yesterday, that's what Ramadan is about, making sure you're being a good person to others." What'd you grow up with?

Miriam: That's totally a good point. I grew up Presbyterian, so I'm not going to say that Presbyterians aren't getting this message either, but I think it's a combination of these values. I also keep Shabbat, I keep kosher. I live my life according to the Jewish calendar. I'm a little out of sync with the major population. There's just something encompassing about taking this on as a religion and a lifestyle as well that it touches me so much.

Brian Lehrer: We just have 15 seconds, but do you think as a convert, that it looks to you like people who are born into it take it for granted too much?

Miriam: I don't even really want to [unintelligible 00:18:19] [laughs] That is up to everyone's individual decision. We're all on our paths.

Brian Lehrer: It depends on the individual. Miriam, thank you for your call, and thanks to all of you for your calls. These have been so interesting and in many ways inspiring. From Christian callers on Monday, Muslim callers yesterday, Jewish callers today, April is the holy month in this particular year's calendar with Ramadan, Passover, and Easter all coinciding. We'll do more like this as the month goes on. Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

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