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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we continue our series, 51 Council Members in 52 Weeks, as we welcome all 51 New York City Councilmembers in this year when most of the council is new because of term limits, and it's majority female for the first time ever. This is Week 20, and we're up to District 20 in Queens, represented by freshman member Sandra Ung. District 20 includes Flushing, Mitchell-Linden, Murray Hill, Queensboro Hill, and Fresh Meadows in Queens.

The Councilmember's bio page says, "After escaping the Cambodian genocide as a child, Sandra and her family emigrated to New York City when she was just seven years old. She went to Flushing High School and Hunter College and went to law school at Columbia, graduating in 2001. She's been an attorney in a nonprofit, defending survivors of domestic violence and advocating for their families. She worked for Congresswoman Grace Meng, where she assisted constituents with immigration, Veteran Affairs, and social security cases." It says, "Throughout her career, Sandra has advocated on issues that impact women, survivors of domestic violence, and our youth and the environment."

This week, the Councilmember is introducing legislation to support a bill in Albany that would require Asian American history to be taught in schools in New York State. Given the rash of anti-Asian hate crimes, the most publicly discussed hate crimes in New York in recent years until the mass shooting in Buffalo this weekend, you could see why she'd want that history included to work against the othering of Asian American kids. Councilmember Ung, thanks for joining our series, 51 Council Members in 52 Weeks, and welcome to WNYC.

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Good morning. Thank you for having me on.

Brian Lehrer: Would you tell us a little more of your own story first? Did your family come as refugees from the era of Cambodia, often referred to in this country as the Killing Fields?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Sure. Thank you for asking me to talk about this. I actually normally don't. I was born in September 1974. Then by the beginning of 1975, my immediate family, my mom, my dad, my brother, and I had to leave Cambodia. We went to Taiwan for a bit, and that's when my uncle, who actually left Cambodia earlier in life, sponsored us to come to United States. We waited in Taiwan for our sister-brother visa through my mom, but there was a genocide. My grandparents, my mother's family, actually, my grandparents, my mother's father, mother, and two sisters passed away in the genocide via she don't know what happened to them.

One day, the letters stopped coming, so then we obviously assumed the worst. My uncle had gone back to try to find out what happened. Then it just came to a point where we realized that you're never going to find out what happened.

Brian Lehrer: Can I ask you, then, if you're involved at all in refugee or asylum resettlement in this country today? There's so much demand right now, as I'm sure

you know, from various desperate circumstances in Ukraine and Syria and Yemen and Central America, but some escaping violence or oppression are welcomed here more than others. How do you view our current migrant admission or resettlement policies?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: You know, I do think United States can do a better job of doing this. I believe European countries have done a better job. I think United States, frankly, haven't been doing as good of a job in helping the refugees escaping, especially war-torn countries, to come to the United States.

Brian Lehrer: The City Council bill that you're going to introduce, supporting the bill in Albany and the state legislature to include Asian American history in schools, can you tell us more about what that bill would specify?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Sure. It's asking the New York State to pass legislation that's sponsored by State Senator John Liu and Assembly Member Ron Kim requiring the Asian American history be taught in schools to educate children at young age about the contributions of the AAPI community to this country. You brought out a good point. I came to United States when I was seven, and I feel like I'm every fabric, every part of this country as Asian American, but since COVID happened, the reality actually dawned on me pretty quickly that other people might not see me and other people will look like me the same way.

I'll share this story. When COVID started, when COVID began, I remember I went to this CVS store. I was buying something. I was touching this bottle of water. I changed my mind and I touched something else. I remember this woman came up to me and she said, "Stop touching everything." She's like, "The COVID started from you," or "you guys," or something like that." At that moment, I was very shocked because this is my neighborhood store. I was really shocked that she actually said that to me. I think that was the beginning of when I realized Asian Americans looking like us, people are not going to see us as the fabric of the United States.

Brian Lehrer: What a shock it must be to be in that moment, and you're like, "Wait, I'm American. I grew up in Flushing. I didn't just fly in from Wuhan," right?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Yes. I mean, for me, I consider myself, I grew up here. I, my friends, we all grew up. It's also my neighborhood where I felt safe. Definitely in my neighborhood you see a lot of Asian Americans. I actually have one of the highest Asian American populations in the whole New York City Council. For her to say that to me, it was maybe naïve for me before, frankly, to think that Asian Americans are something as far as this society. I think that's the beginning of a conversation, a really realistic conversation of that we need to talk about how United States perceive Asian Americans.

Brian Lehrer: How specific does the bill get in terms of what would be taught of AAPI, Asian American Pacific Islander, history?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: I think the bill is not that specific. Our bill in New York City Council is as the New York State Legislature, which it's been introduced by

Linda Lee, the City Councilmember in District 23, to ask the New York State Legislature to pass that state law.

Brian Lehrer: For you, supporting that bill and introducing the City Council version to support the bill in Albany, do you see it at all in the context of the culture wars taking place in education right now? You know, we just did a segment on the show yesterday about the rise in right-wing culture war candidates running in today's school board elections in communities around New York State, who don't want the history of oppression of non-white people in this country talked to directly.

Councilmember Sandra Ung: I think this is the effort of the way I see this bill, and the way I grew up in United States and going to the schools here. I actually did not learn about any other history, other than what was written the textbooks, which is like, it's obviously bigger than Asian American history. It's about the contributions of all the different groups that made United States the country it is today.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. For you, having grown up in the Flushing area, I see you went to PS 22 Junior High School 189-- was that it?-- and Flushing High School, I guess that would have been in the '80s and '90s. What was the rough percentage of Asian American kids in your school at that time? How, if at all, was Asian American history taught?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: When I went to school-- I think now more and more, this district has turned more Asian American, but back then it's, of course, still Asian Americans. It wasn't. I'll be honest with you, it wasn't. A lot of information I actually had to find out myself, probably in college. I took a few Asian American courses, and I actually had to discover my own history in United States by myself.

Brian Lehrer: In this context, if this isn't a stretch, I wonder how you're processing the mass shooting in Buffalo. If there's a white supremacist movement killing Black people under the slogan, "You will not replace us," like they chanted about Jews at that march in Charlottesville, is that movement targeting Asian Americans with the growing Asian American population?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: I believe so. I believe that type of movement is anybody who's considered to be other in United States. That's what it's really targeting.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Can I ask what first got you into politics? Why are you in this career that has led you to City Council now, rather than anything else you could have done with your law degree?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Sure. You know, I grew up in this district. I see just that. I went to all the public schools in this district. I am actually still in this district. Actually, I never left this district. My parents still live in this district, too. I think part of me really wants to make a difference in the district that I grew up in and that I intend to stay in. Because I have seen the struggles of so many immigrants, I do represent a district that's immigrants. English is not their first language. I've seen the struggles that my parents have gone through and that my parents' friends have gone through. I

believe this is also just a conversation we-- I mean, even though when we do talk about it, I want to talk about it in a very specific and concrete way, and I entered City Council to hope to make positive changes for the community.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take some phone calls for New York City Councilmember Sandra Ung, Week 20 in our year-long series, 51 Council Members in 52 Weeks, in which we're talking to every New York City Councilmember this year to touch every neighborhood in the city, especially in this year when most of City Council is new because of term limits, and also at this historic juncture where the Council is majority female for the first time. Our guest is Sandra Ung, a freshman member of Council, from District 20 in Flushing and thereabouts in Queens. We can take some phone calls for her at (212) 433-WNYC, (212) 433-9692, or tweet @brianlehrer. Here's a call for you coming from Andrew in Holmdel, New Jersey. We let people from New Jersey into the City Council series. Hi, Andrew.

Andrew: Hi, that's nice. I appreciate that, although most of my life, lived in the city. My concern is about my child, who is biracial and going to school in the city. However, first, I'd like to say, there was some deliberate omission and obfuscation by one of the previous callers who just stated about the synagogue in Texas. The fellow there, the Muslim there who attacked was going to perhaps kill the people, but they distracted him or hit him with a chair and ran out.

He was championing one of the preeminent anti-Semites in the world, who is saying she doesn't deny the Holocaust. She says there is one Holocaust after another after another, after one pogrom after another, because the Jews deserve it. This is the champion-- She is being championed by CAIR and the Squad and the virulent, virulent anti-Semitism that comes out of nearly a population of two billion Muslims in all the world. There's less than [inaudible 00:12:38] million Jews.

Brian Lehrer: I admit my ignorance of this incident, whenever it was in Texas.

Andrew: That's the truth. You can check the facts.

Brian Lehrer: I don't know what the--

Andrew: I don't appreciate it coming out of WNYC, which has been my home for decades. I was brought up to be this very WASP-y Protestant, family connections to the Bushes. I totally rejected that. My heart and soul, I was sort of the Jew of the bunch, and never was taught about Judaism or Israel. It never came up, so it's not about that. It's just about what's right and fair, and you can check that. That fellow said, "Oh, this was a nice fellow, made his concerns known, maybe about Israel, and he left, and he was peaceful." He wasn't. His champion is worse than Farrakhan, worse than Buchanan, worse than all of them. Jews deserve to die just for existing? They're not even human, this preternatural group of--

Brian Lehrer: According to that--

Andrew: Let's move on. I don't like that coming out of NYC that I've really given my heart, and my family-- It's like my church, and you, Brian, one of my heroes.

Brian Lehrer: Fair enough, Andrew. I didn't know anything about that particular incident. The caller in the previous segment was saying some things, and if they are inaccurate, then I apologize. I didn't know enough to support or contradict either, but I appreciate you adding a correction there. Go ahead.

Andrew: My wife's name, not mine, because I know how dangerous it is in New York to have a name with a precious metal in it.

Brian Lehrer: Right, and you were-- Did you-- He's gone. He was going to say something about having a biracial, part-Asian-American kid, and I guess we didn't get to that point. What about the conditions of anti-Asian American hate that have sprung up for the children in the community? How do you think it's different, Councilmember Ung, today than, let's say, before the pandemic? Have things really changed that much, or is this just getting a lot more media attention?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: I think things have changed. In my district, in my school, there was a young, I think Chinese American, very young youth. He was playing in the basketball court, and then he got attacked and being called racial names because he was Asian American youth. I think, going back to what you were saying about teaching AAPI history, part of that is also instill a sense of pride in our children, who's growing up seeing people who look like them being attacked, and that shouldn't be the case.

As I said before, I don't think Asian American history is being taught right now in New York City schools. When they go to school, they're entering a school where, right now, they know this is happening, and they're growing up feeling, I think, defeated, feeling like, "I feel like the other because other people are really treating me like I'm other." I think it's so important to just have that history being taught in schools so they honestly feel like, "You know what? Asian Americans, we did do a lot for this country, we'll continue to do a lot for this country, and we should be proud of the fact that we are Asian Americans."

Brian Lehrer: This is WNYC FM, HD, and AM, New York, WNJT FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey Public Radio and live-streaming at wnyc.org. I'm asking all the Councilmembers this in this series. What's the main reason since you took office in January that constituents contact your office?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Sure. Quality of life issues is definitely high on the list. One of the biggest issues is vendors that's in Main Street, Flushing. I actually have one of the busiest intersections in all New York City. A lot of people might not realize that. It's the third busiest intersection after Times Square and Union Square. I do understand the need for vendors, especially during the pandemic, the whole community does, of making a living, but coming to a point where I also have a lot of seniors in this district.

I have people calling our office about their moms and dads. They're afraid for their moms and dads walking in Main Street, Flushing. They're old. They don't walk as

fast. They have to do some food shopping, which means that they have to have grocery carts with them. That's definitely one of the issues that I worry about. Also about having people call about the fact they're waiting for buses. There's a lot of competition for a street on Main Street, which, I don't know if you've visited, Brian, but it's not that wide of a street.

There was also a big fire that happened on Main Street, Flushing, probably now two months ago. I can only imagine, at that time, with that fire, if it did not happen at 5:00 AM, if it happened at 2:00 PM in the afternoon, and all the vendors were there, much worse things could have happened.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, I read about that fire. I'm familiar with it, I grew up near there, actually, and that corner of Main and Roosevelt was downtown when I was a kid. That was such a main hub.

Councilmember Sandra Ung: It's still downtown, still downtown, and much busier now.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, that's right, I know. I still go there. I see-- I want to make sure to get this in-- that you've worked on behalf of domestic violence survivors and are working to improve emergency housing access and the responsiveness of 311 to people reporting domestic violence. What are you trying to improve in particular?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: In terms of domestic violence survivors and working with them, we need to make some progress, with what will a domestic violence survivor need if she leaves her batterer? Often, the reasons she does not, it's a housing issue, and it's also finding a job. Those are really the two main reasons why they do not leave. One of the bills that I've introduced is to, if a domestic violence survivor does not get housing means by any other federal or state vouchers, they should be able to get a New York City FEPS voucher. They should be able to have a safe place to live if they have children, and also have the ability to make a safe environment with their children.

Brian Lehrer: You have initiatives relating to translation services regarding that. Fear of not being understood keeps domestic violence victims from reporting their situation sooner?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Absolutely. This is one of my biggest-- What I want to get accomplished in the City Council is to have a real conversation about language access. While I do think we have made some progress, certainly since I have gone to city government, I see now at least websites are Google translatable. There are forms in different languages. Well, I think that's great. However, we are still very far behind on where we need to be, especially in a situation like domestic violence. You need someone who actually understands the issues to have that real conversation. Especially you need someone who looks like you to have that conversation. When I was working in Sanctuary for Families, that's a nonprofit I worked in, I worked mainly with East Asian clients, because I looked like them and I could speak Mandarin. They have opened up to me in the ways which I don't believe they can, if I didn't speak the language or I didn't look like what I do.

Also, I feel like I have talked to a lot of big not-for-profits during this whole budgeting season about requests for funding. What I've discovered is when large not-for-profits-- all due respect to them, I know it's hard-- when they say that they do have language access, it mainly just means English and Spanish. Which is great, but then what about all the other languages that's spoke in New York City? My CBOs, that's in my district, they do speak the language of the community.

They have to, but they're not large. They're just not a large CBO because that's the nature of not-for-profits. I do think these small not-for-profits who work directly in the community should get more funding, because they do have staff who have bilingual services. That's one more point also about the city. The city does right now have a reliance on using language line. There's not a lot of bilingual staffers, but back to my original point about language line is that when people call and they feel like they're not going to get the need-- people don't understand what they're saying, sometimes language line doesn't even work, or sometimes they're not being patched through, the language line is not being used-- they're going to give up on asking for help.

Brian Lehrer: We're just about out of time. We're going to end on a lighter note, because as you know, we're inviting each Councilmember to bring a show-and-tell item from your district. I don't know if you had show-and-tell at PS 22. We had it where I went at PS 209 on Utopia Parkway, a few schools over, but what did you bring us?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Sure. I bought a Mets Bobblehead of Obi Wan Canobi, which I have-

Brian Lehrer: From Star Wars Night. They had Star Wars Night the other week.

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Two of my passions, my Mets, my Mets, and my Star Wars passion, two of my passions, that's in one. I grew up being a huge Mets fan. I grew up in Flushing. I had one older brother, we had one TV. I remember watching the Mets on TV. I actually went to the Tom Seaver unveiling statue with Mets Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling, and I'm a big 1986 Mets fan. I just remember being big sister--

Brian Lehrer: The World Championship year when Ron Darling and Keith Hernandez, who are now the announcers on TV, two of the three. They were two of the big stars on the team at that time.

Councilmember Sandra Ung: I remember that game six and two outs, that one last batter, and you're thinking, you're done for, right? Like this is not going to happen, and then it did happen. That's my favorite memory of the Mets. I feel it's very symbolic of what truthfully Flushing is. You know, they're gritty, we might be seen as an underdog, but by the end, we make it.

Brian Lehrer: You met Ron Darling and Keith Hernandez at the unveiling of the Tom Seaver statue. That's great. I'm a big fan of theirs, too. Did you get to have a conversation at all?

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Oh, yes. I went over. They probably think, "Oh, why was this woman like running over to me like this?" I ran over to them and I said, "I'm your biggest fan," and they were really nice. We took a picture, and you actually can see the picture on my social media.

Brian Lehrer: That's fun. That's great. You know I see that they're giving away bobbleheads of-- and I didn't know which bobblehead you were going to bring. Is it going to be, like, Mike Piazza or current player Pete Alonzo, or what? You brought the Mets Star Wars Bobblehead, but I noticed that they're going to give away bobbleheads of the announcers this year, not the players. They're doing one for Ron, one for Keith, and one for their partner, Gary Cohen.

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Wow, [inaudible 00:24:37] me not know? Actually, I'm going to try to do that. I'm going to try to go and get that bobblehead.

Brian Lehrer: You can look the dates up. I don't know the dates, but I will say, as somebody in this business, that that is rarefied high status for a broadcaster, when you get a bobblehead. All right, thanks for bringing a Mets Bobblehead as your show-and-tell, and thanks very much for joining our series, 51 Council Members in 52 Weeks. Sandra Ung, Freshman Councilmember from District 20 in Flushing and Mitchell-Linden and thereabouts in Queens. Thanks so much.

Councilmember Sandra Ung: Thank you for having me on.

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