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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone, and thanks to Brigid Bergin for filling in yesterday while I was off for Yom Kippur atoning for my sins for the past year. Really, it would take me days or weeks to return for all those sins, but they only give you one so it is what it is. On this morning show, New York Times White House correspondent Maggie Haberman.

We'll talk about her latest reporting on Donald Trump telling his lawyer to tell the National Archives that he had returned all the government documents he had taken from the White House when he really hadn't. Another potential legal problem for Trump but we'll talk mostly about Maggie's new book, Confidence Man, about Donald Trump that turns out to be quite the history book about New York City in the '80s.

We will take a trip back to the Ed Koch, Al Sharpton, Donald Trump, Tom Wolf, George Steinbrenner, Ronald Reagan as president, Rudy Giuliani as US Attorney era in this city. I look forward to a tragic-comic, New York history romp with Maggie Haberman, who explains how the New York politics of then contributed to the threat to democracy nationally today.

Maggie did report for the Daily News and New York Post and had a tabloid's eye view of the world before she joined the Times. She brings that experience among other things to the conversation that's coming up. Also, today, a call in for young adults who live with your grandparents and grandparents who live with your young adult grandkids. A more common trend recently, it's being reported. Anyone out there doing that now will take your calls later.

We begin today with our midterm election series, 30 Issues in 30 Days issue nine. Climate as an issue in the New York State Governor's race. Now, this actually broke out as a story on our show this summer after I heard Republican candidate Lee Zeldin say one of his tools to fight inflation would be to restore fracking for natural gas to New York state. Some of you remember Governor Cuomo had banned fracking back in 2014 for climate reasons and also because of local air and water pollution risks.

Zeldin is running on bringing it back to create jobs in parts of upstate, mostly to so-called Southern Tier of New York State along the border with Pennsylvania. Also, he says to eventually bring down energy prices because more fracking means more supply. When I ask Governor Hochul about that, when she was here for a campaign interview in August, this is how she replied.

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Governor Hochul: That idea is dead on arrival. No way are we going to go backwards to our commitment to protect the environment. This just is another example of how Lee Zeldin is one out of touch New York values, but also how extreme and dangerous would be to have someone who is willing to just turn back all the progress we've made to protect our planet and protect the people of our state going forward.

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Brian Lehrer: Governor Hochul on the show in August. Well, Word got out about that answer, and Zeldin was invited to respond on a Fox Business News interview, and he said this.

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Lee Zeldin: One of the things that we should be doing is reversing New York's ban on the safe extraction of natural gas. The Southern Tier of New York, and for some other counties that sit on the Marcellus and Utica shells, they want to be able to tap into this resource. You can create jobs and generate revenue. You can revitalize these communities. You can be exporting energy to other states. You could be exporting energy to other countries but in New York, they banned it.

You can reduce energy costs for New Yorkers who need that relief but you help the entire region. You can help the entire country with that effort. In New York, you have these applications for new pipelines to be constructed that are being delayed and denied up in Albany that instead should be getting approved.

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Brian Lehrer: Fracking is an issue in the governor's race, a clear cut difference between the two candidates. We'll talk about that and more on their climate positions and histories now with Ben Max, editor-in-chief of the Gotham Gazette and host of The Max Politics Podcast. Thanks for coming on Ben. Welcome back to WNYC.

Ben Max: Thanks, Brian. Good to be with you.

Brian Lehrer: I think it's worth reminding people of what fracking is. We say the word a lot, but a lot of people just don't know what that means. As described in brief by the New York Times, it involves injecting large amounts of water, sand, and chemicals, deep underground at high pressures to release oil and natural gas from rock formations that from the Times. It's controversial because of instances of local water pollution. Mostly water pollution in some areas.

Of course, climate activists don't want anything that contributes more fossil fuels to the environment but it could provide jobs in some communities along the Southern Tier want it. In the governor's race, the difference is pretty clear. Zeldin is for a resumption of fracking in New York State, Hochul is not. Is Zeldin right? At least that it would create jobs as far as you can tell?

Ben Max: Oh, sure. I think that's probably a safe bet that it would be an economic boost to certain communities, especially some of the more economically depressed communities that are in the Southern Tier and that are certainly part of Zeldin's space already.

Brian Lehrer: He talks about fracking as safe extraction of natural gas. There's a debate in energy mining circles as to whether it can be such a thing as safe fracking. In terms of the local air pollution and water pollution problems that it has caused in some context, in some areas, in addition to the longer term climate impact.

When I ask Democrats then, if communities shouldn't be able to make their own decisions on this, Democrats say no. The larger goals are more important. Especially climate goals, but there was a movement after the Cuomo fracking band took effect of some landowners and town officials up in the Southern Tier to say they would consider seceding from New York state and actually joining Pennsylvania.

Changing the map, which they border on, and which does allow fracking on its side of the border. I guess that never went anywhere. I don't even know if they could do it under the constitution, change state lines. Do you think it's a powerful issue up there, or do the dangers of fracking for the local environment make it not actually that appealing as a political centerpiece?

Ben Max: Well, I think you'd have to get more of a sense from certain local communities. I do think that in most areas that lean more conservative politically, generally, it's probably it's a more popular campaign plank and talking point. I do think it's the type of thing that resonates somewhat with some more conservative Democrats and some Independents but I do think the larger issues of clean drinking water, a safe environment, clean air.

Moving to more renewable energy for the most part are issues that a lot of the moderate Democrats and Independents that a Republican in New York at least needs to win in an election to win over those issues. I think most voters that are any type of swing voters are probably not allowing fracking in New York as at the top of their wish list. I think there's a lot of climate action that's in movement in New York that mostly are popular items.

People have become more and more accustomed to just understanding and believing that the climate crisis is real and there's a real need to be moving towards more renewable energy in New York's contribution to the larger issue of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. These questions about what the local and larger impacts of fracking would have but I also think one thing that Zeldin's doing is you noted is talking about fracking-related to the economy.

Which we know is basically the top issue for voters in this election, and also related to energy bills and people's cost of living, and inflation. We know that those types of arguments are probably hitting home for a lot of voters. I just don't know that I see other than in certain areas that would get the real boost from allowing fracking for economic activity that necessarily this is a big issue for voters to go towards Zeldin's arguments race.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we welcome your calls here on 30 Issues in 30 Days our midterm election series, Issue Nine, Climate as an Issue in the New York State Governor's Race. Anybody listening in the Southern Tier towns right now? Do you care about this? Do you want fracking? Do you want the right to make a town-based decision on fracking or anyone else on any aspect of climate as an issue in the New York State Governor's race?

We're going to move beyond fracking now and talk about other aspects of climate as an issue. Any of that is fair game for a comment or a question for Ben Max from Gotham Gazette, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 or Tweet @BrianLehrer. Ben, as you know there are other climate things that Hochul is running on. We'll get to them in a minute, but your team reported and Gotham Gazette that you've been having difficulty finding or getting direct responses at all from Zeldin on climate policies. Here's a quote, folks from Ben Gotham Gazette about Zeldin.

It says, "He has not provided plans to address the state's affordable housing crisis, healthcare system, public universities, mass transit, climate and resiliency, and more." That trend continued as the campaign declined to respond to several requests from Gotham Gazette inquiring into Zeldin's policies and positions on those issues. Ben, does Zeldin's campaign include simply stating no public positions one way or another on major issues like climate and affordable housing?

Ben Max: He has weighed in on a few specifics under those categories here and there on the campaign trail, maybe at a primary debate with his GOP opponents, but he's offering a very, very limited policy agenda. If you look at his campaign website, you can see it's very skeletal. There's no page for environment or climate.

There's also no page for a variety of other issues. We've asked many times for just share with us some of his ideas on how to address the city and states housing crisis and other issues you just mentioned. We've gotten no responses. I did another round of outreach ahead of this interview to say, "Hey, we're looking at the candidates on climate and environment, anything you want to send over?"

I sent over a specific list of questions and pinged his campaign spokesperson a second time, and they've responded to me before on other things. There was nothing forthcoming again on climate and environmental issue. This is definitely one area where he's being very quiet other than the few things that he's put out, which is he wants to allow fracking the state.

He doesn't want the governor, I believe, to sign the cryptocurrency mining moratorium, a few specifics that he's put out there. He's touted himself as something of an environmentalist in the past. He's similar to, I would say, a number of Republicans who represent areas like Long Island, where there's obviously a lot of coastline and there's a lot of environmental issues that they have some semblance of efforts to ensure some conservation.

They focus on the cleanliness of some of the shoreline and things of that nature, but in terms of larger issues related to greenhouse gas emissions and renewable energies, there's not a lot of policy there.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, thanks for reaching out to his campaign, on behalf of this segment right now, I guess we owe you at least a stringer fee or lunch or something.

Ben Max: We're writing more about it, so it's for our work as well. I want to be able to share with people where the two gubernatorial candidates stand in these issues. It's frustrating when a major candidate for governor, doesn't want to share stances on certain things. I tried to ask, I'm sure you're going to get to this shortly. I tried to ask the Zeldin campaign again does he want voters to support or not support the environmental Bond Act that's on the general election ballot and no answer on that either.

Brian Lehrer: We will talk about that bond act. More explicitly coming up. Does Zeldin deny human because climate change? Say it's a hoax some Republicans do, or does he have alternative plans here on the 10th anniversary month of Hurricane Sandy coastal resiliency plans to adapt to rising sea levels in his community in Suffolk County, that he'd argue are better than Hochul's, or anything like that?

Ben Max: He is supportive of some resiliency measures that goes back to the differentiation I was trying to draw there about, especially some Republicans to represent areas like communities on Long Island that are so susceptible to rising sea levels in extreme weather. He has supported some efforts on those types of projects. I don't think he's called climate change hoax, but he has certainly cast dispersions on a lot of the Democrat-led efforts to push, for example, he's called it the far-left climate agenda for Democrats to push a ban on gas hookups and new construction starting several years from now.

That's something that New York City passed the governor looked to pass it in this year's, the state agenda that she had in her budget. It didn't quite get there because of opposition in the state assembly, but it is something that seems to be on the top of Governor Hochul's agenda for further climate action if she wins the selection.

It's the type of thing that Lee Zeldin has opposed, he's also opposed some of the projects and the laws that Hochul and others have announced related to moving to more electric vehicles and banning, fossil fuel vehicles about the scale of fossil fuel vehicles about 10 years from now in New York. He's not quite called it a hoax as far as I know, but he's certainly opposed to a lot of the more aggressive action that Democrats are pursuing.

Brian Lehrer: We've got some callers coming in from the southern tier or with connections to the southern tier, Robert and Elmira. I see you, you'll be the second caller. First Sharon in Manhattan, who has family in the Southern Tier. Hi, Sharon. You're on WNYC.

Sharon: Hello, Brian. I'll try to make this quick as I think you may have a lot of people with personal anecdotes. my mother-in-law was offered $1,500 to allow fracking on her property, which was an acre or an acre and a half, basically, a house with a large backyard and she declined it.

Brian Lehrer: First of all, $1,500, that's like 25 cents.

Sharon: Well, $1,500. If she signed that they could drill. That was all that they were offered. This was more than 10 years ago. There was tiny sum. Her husband actually wanted to do it because it was free money, but she declined it and it really didn't matter because one of her neighbors who allowed the fracking and I stood in her yard and saw, you looked sideways, there's this small rig that looks like an oil [unintelligible 00:16:50] that's small in her neighbor's yard, and their water was polluted.

Brian Lehrer: Do any details of that? What happened to the water? I know some of the extreme examples that have made the news from places is that some water has even caught on fire, which is almost impossible when you think about water, but apparently, that has happened in at least one instance or a few instances from practicing. Do you know in the case of your in-law's neighbor, what happened to their water? Maybe you don't know.

Sharon: Just my in-law's neighbor. That's the point that I'm trying to make, when one person allows fracking on their property, it can contaminate everyone's water. Her water-- The company, and I don't know the name of the company, but they never admitted culpability, but they did provide bottled water. Oh, for some period of time.

She had already very fortunately for her closed on selling the house and she was very concerned, of course, that her buyer would [unintelligible 00:17:56], they did not, or were not able to. She's not still in that house, but the last thing that our family knew was that the family that purchased it had to use bottled water for everything, and they didn't even have the fracking on their property.

Brian Lehrer: Sharon, thank you so much for that anecdote. There's an example side effects of fracking in actual people's lives. Now we'll go to Robert in Elmyra. Robert, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Robert: Oh, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Enjoy your show. Listen to it every day. Long time WNYC supporter. I just wanted to comment that, I live in Elma in New York. I'm an architect. I've also had opportunity to drive into Mansfield, Pennsylvania, which is right across the border.

This whole thing with fracking is just pure craziness. It's not only as your previous caller mentioned damaging the environment. It just an unhealthy way of trying to establish an energy program in this country. I apologize for being so nervous here, but there are other alternatives and I would like your guests to explore them. I'll take my call out the air.

Brian Lehrer: Robert, let me ask you since you're up in that area, is there talk-- Your position is clear, but is there talk among your neighbors or town officials as far as about jobs? I know these are very economically depressed communities, many of them in the southern tier section of New York State. Do people talk about it in those terms that of?

Robert: Oh, yes. No question about it. To some degree when the fracking thing was really doing well in Pennsylvania a couple of years ago, that was that you wanted those jobs. That's what you wanted. You wanted to be a [unintelligible 00:19:53], you wanted to drive truck, you wanted to work on all that stuff, but we don't know the health benefits or things that have happened to those workers. It's going to take a while to figure that out. We do know that being around that, that stuff is [unintelligible 00:20:08] but yes, they look at it as being "Hey, we're going to turn ourselves around." I really dispute that. I really disagree with that.

Brian Lehrer: Robert, thank you very much. We're going to continue in a minute with Ben Max from Gotham Gazette on more on 30 Issues and 30 Days issue nine, climate as an issue, in the New York State Governor's race. We've heard some first-person stories from up in the southern tier area about gubernatorial candidate Lee Zeldin running on restoring fracking to New York State Governor Cuomo Banned in 2014. We're going to move on to other climate issues in this race right after this.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we are in our 30 Issues and 30 Days election series, Issue nine, Climate as an issue in the New York State governor's race. I guess you could also call this our Climate Story of the week, which we do weekly on the show, but we're doing three climate segments this week so take your pick [unintelligible 00:21:19]. Okay, this one climate is an issue in the New York State governor's race on our 30-Issue series and our climate story of the week with Ben Max, executive editor of Gotham Gazette and host of the Max Politics Podcast.

Here's another climate issue as we move on from fracking, where an environmentalist called into that show in August when Hochul was on and pressed her on a climate issue that she hadn't taken a position on yet. It's Eric from Manhattan who identifies himself as climate activist Eric Weltman. He praises Hochul for one of her actions regarding Bitcoin mining. And then--

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Eric: The next step you can take right now is sign the bill passed by the legislature in June putting a two-year pause on similar kinds of fossil fuel-powered crypto mining that promotes fracking and that increases greenhouse gas emissions putting at risk a possibility of meeting our client goals. Governor Hochul.

Brian Lehrer: Eric, I'm going to leave it--

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Brian Lehrer: That was the end of a longer call just so you could hear the question we're going to focus on. Do you happen to know, Ben, if Hochul signed that crypto mining moratorium? She did deny the permit for one particular company. That's what he was thanking her for that was involved in crypto mining. I said Bitcoin mining, but it's any kind of crypto. She still does not have had to have signed that bill by now even though it was passed in the spring. Do you happen to know if she did?

Ben Max: Oh, I know that she has not. This is one of the interesting places where there's some frustration with the governor from her left. She has not done everything that climate activists and some progressive legislators and her progressive opponent Jumaane Williams and the Democratic primary wanted her to do including signing this bill. I'm sensing at this point that it's not something she's going to take action on before election day.

I think there are questions as to how many different ways she might want to be open to attacks from Zeldin and moderates on and conservatives on the question of if she's taking job-killing and industry-killing measures, so to speak. I think she's probably thinks she's done enough on climate which she's done a tremendous amount and many people think a little bit too far in some ways, like Zeldin, that she's done enough to have support.

She has a lot of support obviously from Liberals and Democrats and environmentalists in many ways. She has the endorsement of the New York League of Conservation Voters so she hasn't taken action on that bill yet. She might do it in the lead-up to election day if she thinks it would give her a good boost amongst some democratic voters and maybe some independence but she hasn't taken action on it yet.

Brian Lehrer: I'm going to take a call from somebody who thinks she hasn't gone far enough on climate, in general, it's Justice in Manhattan, who is supporting the Green Party candidate for Governor Howie Hawkins. Justice, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Justice: Hi, Brian. Thank you. Hi, Ben. Yes, November 8th, write in vote Howie Hawkins for Governor, Gloria Mattera for Lieutenant Governor Green Party, a Green New Deal for 100% clean energy, and then the real Green New Deal that they've campaigned on since 2010. 100% clean energy and zero emissions in 10 years. Public power utilities to build 100% clean energy, public banks, and tax the rich to fund the Green New Deal.

Brian Lehrer: You think this is more than Hochul is talking about because she is talking about a fossil fuel phase-out in New York. She is talking about no more gasoline-powered new car sales after 2035. Do you think there's a lot of daylight between Hawkins and Hochul at this point, Justice?

Justice: Oh, a whole universe of it. It's real, 100% clean energy, and zero emissions in 10 years. Public power utilities to build 100% clean energy, public banks and tax the rich to fund the Green New Deal.

Brian Lehrer: Justice, thank you for your call. We really appreciate it. Ben, just as a New York State politics footnote to Justice's call, she did say write in Howie Hawkins, the Green Party candidate for governor as part of the changes that Cuomo enacted to make it harder for smaller parties to get on the ballot at all. I guess there's no green party line this year, huh?

Ben Max: No, they lost the line previously as did other smaller parties. There's only four parties that have the ballot line the two major ones and the working families and the conservative parties and those of each doubled up here in infusion voting with Hochul and Zeldin. They'll only be two candidate names on the ballot but there are a couple of right-end campaigns going including for Howie Hawkins who's run for governor several times before and is the original voice in New York calling for a Green New Deal. That is correct and they have a more aggressive approach to it than is being enacted. Obviously, there's lots of questions about implementation and all that but yes, that's true.

Brian Lehrer: That's part of the Cuomo legacy. Even if not a lot of people are going to vote for the minor party candidates, he didn't even want them on the ballot as many of them as there were before. He managed to get rules that made it much harder for them to get on the ballot and the loss of the Green Party as an option or officially in the debate, let's say, by having a ballot line and having to rely on a writing campaign that's part of the Cuomo legacy

Ben Max: That's right. This was an effort targeted, of course, at the working family's party. They were unsuccessful in knocking the WFP off its continuing to have its ballot line. Now under these new rules, all of the parties continue to need to earn it every two years in the gubernatorial and presidential elections. This is a constant battle now for the smaller parties to try to either regain a ballot line or keep the ballot line they have. In some ways, I think Cuomo would be happy to have a number of smaller parties on the ballot if he were still running but not the Working Families party which was mostly intended to target.

Brian Lehrer: Now, as part of Governor Hochul's answer to Eric, the caller we played on crypto mining, Hochul raised another climate issue that you referred to before that all New Yorkers who vote will have a say on in November. Here's the governor on this show in August again.

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Governor Hochul: I'm going to ask Eric and others and all your listeners, Brian, if you can help us do something that's going to be profoundly important for the protection of our environment and building resiliency and that is support for our $4.2 billion bond deck which is on the ballot this November. It's our clean water, clean air, green jobs environmental bond deck. When we get that money, that coupled with our $500 million we're putting an offshore wind and the first electrified school bus system and our money for the Environmental Protection Fund.

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Brian Lehrer: Ben, have you reported on this yet? I want to assure our listeners we're going to do a separate segment solely on this before election day but are camps developing pro and con on the Environmental Bond Act because everybody who goes to the polls in New York State is going to have an option, the opportunity to weigh in on this.

Ben Max: Yes, everybody should be doing their research and ready to vote on this Proposition 1 in New York City. There'll be several other ballot questions related to racial justice but in the state, this is the big one. There is a very large coalition that's come together to support it and they've started to spend some money on that. I have not found any organized effort against it. I haven't looked completely, thoroughly, but I did a little looking around previously and then again in preparation for this segment and I haven't found a large opposition.

I don't think there's going to be a big push against it unless there are conservatives who want to try to rally against it. I think Zeldin's silence on the measure is telling and I think at a $4.2 billion Environmental Bond Act this is not something that is going to stir up a lot of negative resentment here. A recent Sienna poll showed that New York voters support it by a pretty wide margin at least initially but of course, that's weeks before election day.

Brian Lehrer: I look last night and this morning and I couldn't find a Zeldin's position either way. You indicated before you couldn't either so as far as we know the Republican candidate for governor has not taken a position pro or con valid question number one statewide this fall.

Ben Max: Correct. As far as I know, there's a chance at a press conference here or there. He's been asked and it just didn't make a lot of news. I'm going to continue looking. I tried to get clarity from the campaign, as I said, leading up to this discussion but none was forthcoming. As far as I know, he hasn't taken a position yet but I'm happy to be corrected on that one way or another.

Brian Lehrer: Susan in Manhattan you're on WNYC. Hi, Susan.

Susan: Hi, I was just wondering about the public-powered utilities. Has Hochul made any gestures towards starting to rewire New York State for the electric cars?

Brian Lehrer: Oh, for electric cars so you're talking about charging station, Susan?

Susan: Yes, charging stations, et cetera.

Brian Lehrer: That will take a whole big infrastructure ban. It will if they're really going to ban the sale of gasoline-powered cars that is new gasoline-powered cars, people could still keep and resell the ones they have after 2035. Definitely will require an infrastructure.

Ben Max: Yes, so Governor Hochul has continued a lot that was in motion under Governor Cuomo but expanded a variety of measures related to climate and climate action and renewable energy and some of the things that I mentioned earlier. There are too many projects to list going on and she's advanced a lot of them. The questions here and these are questions that Lee Zeldin is raising and others are raising is about the speed. Some on the left want them to go faster. Some on the right say that New York is not going to be prepared.

One of the big questions is this question about charging stations and battery storage and the ability for transmission lines to be in place that are needed as the state pulls back on greenhouse gas emissions. The governor has moved forward a couple of very big transmission line projects coming from Canada or upstate New York. They're moving ahead on, I believe, it's more than a billion dollars in electrical vehicle infrastructure over the next several years.

There's a lot that's in motion but it all has to sometimes be contracted out. Sometimes it has to win local approval of sightings. There's a lot of questions about implementation here that if she wins the selection Governor Hochul will have to move forward and if Zeldin wins, there's a lot of questions about the future of all of these projects and policies.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a caller who's skeptical of this. There's no new gasoline-powered car sales after 2035, policy of Hochul. Karina in Queens you're on WNYC. Hi, Karina.

Karina: Hi, Brian. Yes, definitely. The gasoline cars, yes, they do emit emissions. Yes, we can't understate that but the batteries where they're sourced from, it's a very dangerous lithium ion and if people are going to charge it hooked up to their home or building, we have fire safety. Our grid is not up to par. I doubt our grid will be up to par in 13 years. We've been talking over a decade about getting solar on the top of New York City roofs and we still haven't gotten it done.

I doubt it's going to be done in 13 years and they're very costly. An F-150, for example, costs close to $100,000 a battery power one. Tesla cars are still very expensive. This is really going to really kick people out of certain income streams that don't have the means to buy these expensive vehicles. I doubt they're going to go down in price because they're probably going to increase the cost because more people are going to buy them. This is just going to make it very unequal for people who don't have the means and need to maybe have a car because they have to drive a family member to the hospital, to medical services or they need it for their job.

Also too in terms of gas car vehicles that they'll still be able to buy and sell on the market. The DMV has made it very difficult for existing vehicles to even stay on the road. Like my mom's G6 in 2020 couldn't pass the inspection and the car was not even 20 years old. She ended up having to get a new vehicle, a new car but who's not to say that in 13 years, a lot of the cars on the road will they be able to still drive because New York has made it difficult for cars that are over 20 years old to even still be on the road. Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: Karina, thank you so much. Thank you very much for your call. The affordability of electric vehicles certainly is an issue, Ben, and they may come down, she said they may go up in price because if everybody's required to buy them in the future when they buy new cars, then there'll be a monopoly in that respect and you can raise the price.

I've heard the opposite speculation which is that as they sell so many more of them like a lot of electronics and other consumer products, the cost will go down as they get more mass-produced, who knows? Does Hochul talk about any subsidy for lower-income people working-class New Yorkers who really probably can afford the EVs that are on the market right now by the time you get to 2035? Is that part of the plan?

Ben Max: I haven't seen anything from the state on that. I could have missed it. I don't think there's anything coming from the state. I think there's questions about the role the federal government might play in spurring purchase of electric vehicles. I think, to your point, the economics of the discussion there might be a little off from the caller in terms of what prices might do when there's much more competition in this spear for sales of electric vehicles.

Of course, we're also talking about over the course of a decade here or so. I did want to mention also on the transportation front, Governor Hochul moved forward this push to electrify all of the school buses in the state which is another interesting part of this and relates a lot to the larger picture of greenhouse gas emissions but then very much just a very local air quality condition. That's another one that's her campaign is touting. I don't know that Lee Zeldin opposes that one. That might be a difficult one to oppose.

Brian Lehrer: There are more specifics we could talk about if we had more time but we've touched on a number of aspects of climate change prevention or adaptation in the governor's race in New York State. That is issue nine in 30 Issues and 30 Days climate as an issue in the New York State Governor's race. Tomorrow, we'll do issue 10, we'll stay on climate but we'll talk about climate as an issue in the races for Congress and what Democrats and Republicans say they would do nationally if they control the house and or the Senate. Ben Max is executive editor of Gotham Gazette and host of the Max Politics Podcast. Ben, thanks.

Ben Max: My pleasure. Thank you.

 

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