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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we continue our series, dispelling some nutritional myths that have permeated American culture. We've been doing that, with Sophie Egan, author of How to Be a Conscious Eater: Making Food Choices That Are Good for You, Others, and the Planet. She's a New York Times contributor too, and she recently penned the article that inspired this series of conversations. The article called 10 Nutrition Myths Experts Wish Would Die.

We're taking two myths a day, all this week in order from her article to do all 10 by Friday. So far, we've covered myths numbers one through four; fresh fruits and vegetables are always healthier than canned, frozen, or dried varieties, all fat is bad, calories in, calories out is the most important factor for long-term weight gain, and people with Type II Diabetes shouldn't eat fruit. Those are all myths according to the article.

Today myths numbers five and six, plant-based milks are better for you than cow's milk, and white potatoes are unhealthy. Also joining us today is Daphene Altema-Johnson, program officer with the Food Communities & Public Health Program at the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future. Daphene Altema-Johnson, welcome to WNYC, and Sophie, welcome back.

Sophie Egan: Thank you. It's great to be back.

Daphene Altema-Johnson: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Sophie, on to myth number five, plant-based milks are better for you than cow's milk. You mean they're not?

Sophie Egan: Right. This myth comes from Kathleen Merrigan, a professor of sustainable food systems at Arizona State University and former US Deputy Secretary of Agriculture. The point that she makes is that you have to really look at the nutrition profile of each individual type of plant milk. My own observation would be that we have a cultural tendency toward health halos where we see words like gluten-free or low-fat or fat-free, and the same is true of plant-based and you automatically assume it's better and healthier. I think she's really trying to help us look at, "Hey, actually, cow's milk inherently is the top winner on the protein category."

If you look at other examples, like almond milk, or oat milk, much lower grams of protein, and then you have to account for what's being added sometimes to these products like sodium or added sugars. It doesn't mean that plant milk can't be healthy by any stretch, but that we don't want to make this blanket assumption that plant milks across the board are more nutritious than cow's milk.

Brian Lehrer: It's too bad because I was just out in the barn this morning milking the almonds. I'm kidding. [laughs] But do plant-based milks packing other nutrients to make up for what they lack in protein?

Sophie Egan: Well, sure. In general, a lot of milks benefit from fortification, and that's true of cow's milk as well. Part of why it has become such a go-to source of nutrition is that through fortification, it offers vitamins A and D and then you'll see that there is a lot of fortification happening as well with plant milk. The thing to look out for though is those undesirable added ingredients. It's the salt, sometimes there's not-so-friendly stabilizers and other processed ingredients. Then definitely, the big thing to look out for is lots of added sugar, which can be quite high in some of the alternative milks, especially flavored milks, both cow's milk and plant milks. You really want to look for those unsweetened options whenever possible.

Brian Lehrer: Daphene Altema-Johnson will bring you in about the next myth in a moment, which is what you're really here to discuss, but is there anything you want to add about the nutritional benefits of cow's milk or anything about plant-based milks?

Daphene Altema-Johnson: No, what I would like to say is actually, we actually submitted a paper discussing the nutritional value of plant-based milk. As Sophie stated, is that we see plant bait, we think it's better but I do like to say if you're looking for something that's comparable to cow's milk, soy is a very close substitution that could work if you're looking for that plant options for those that may have allergies or that they're for a health reason or for an environmental reason, doesn't want to use cow's milk. They can actually use soy, which is, when you look at the nutritional profile of soy, that's what resemble most to cow's milk.

Brian Lehrer: Sophie, I see that last year you answered a New York Times reader question that said, "I'm lactose intolerant, what's the best non-dairy milk alternative?" Daphene was just recommending soy for some people. Where did you go with your answer?

Sophie Egan: Right, exactly that answer. It is a really important point that Daphene raises, which there are lots of reasons to consider plant milks; the environmental impacts, carbon and water footprint, being lactose intolerant, which a tremendous number of Americans are and especially affecting up to 80% of African Americans, Ashkenazi Jews, Latinos, and American Indians. Then there's just other reasons that folks may not want to be choosing cow's milk.

It is important to see where there are comparable alternatives. I similarly in that article from last year, arrived at unsweetened fortified soymilk as your best bet. That comes from Alicia Romano, from Tufts who I had interviewed and her point was that it lines up almost pretty much identical profile in terms of calcium, vitamin D, other nutrients, calories, and so forth.

Then there are some other good options, such as various nut milks, and oat milks, but really, soy is the most similar, other than, of course, lactose-free cow's milk, which would be even more similar, but in the plant realm, those are really your best bets.

Brian Lehrer: Before we go on to myth number six, one more thing on this, a listener tweets, "Plant-based milks are better for animal welfare and the planet." Sophie, since your book is called How to Be a Conscious Eater: Making Food Choices That Are Good for You, Others, and the Planet, do you assess cow versus plant milk in that respect?

Sophie Egan: Yes, absolutely. There's a whole chapter, maybe even transcends a few chapters in the book How To Be A Conscious Eater that really lines up these different imperatives, including animal welfare, which is raised. Exactly, there's no animals involved in oat, or almond, or other soymilks. It's really just watching out for those added less beneficial nutrition ingredients like added sugar and sodium. Then from an animal welfare and environmental impacts, there is no question that there's really a lot of benefits and upsides for opting for foods from the plant kingdom in general. That applies to milk, but also just the whole eating pattern.

Doesn't mean you have to go vegan or eat exclusively plant-based foods across the board, but when possible, emphasizing those plant-based options, what we often call plant-forward, or plant-positive, plant-centric, choose your favorite term, flexitarian, just in general, that kind of ratios that lean more towards plant-based foods. That's going to see benefits across what's good for us, others, and the planet.

Brian Lehrer: We know that there are even baristas now who are experts in oat or almond milk lattes. On to myth number six, white potatoes are unhealthy. Daphene Altema-Johnson, why have white potatoes been so vilified? What's so good or healthy about them?

Daphene Altema-Johnson: Here's the thing, the reason that is because of their high starch and carb content, and that's what leads to what we call a glycemic index. High glycemic index food, that's what it's considered, because their rating system, that's what they use. For people who were wondering what is the glycemic index, it's a rating system that is used for foods containing carbohydrates. Potatoes happen to fall really moderate range of that. They usually said it's a high glycemic index food, meaning that when you eat a potato, when it's digested, it's absorbed quickly, and it causes a high spike in your blood sugar.

Other foods that falls in that middle-moderate index are your white rice in your couscous. They have the same effect that causes your blood sugar to just rise quickly and basically false just as quickly. The issue is really if you don't have any health condition, say if you're not diabetic, consuming white potatoes in moderation is not an issue but it is a concern for those that have diabetes because it does impact blood sugars. When you have diabetes, you have to be mindful, you have to count your starch-to-starch requirement that you have based on wherever your blood sugar level is. You have to count that.

Yes, you should be concerned if you have those health conditions, but eating potatoes that are very versatile, that are very cost-effective, which is why I appreciate them given the cost of food now in America, everywhere, they're just easy. We just need to know how to use them.

Brian Lehrer: This myth number six is posed as, white potatoes are unhealthy, so where do sweet potatoes come in Daphene?

Daphene Altema-Johnson: Although sweet potato is fine, that's what everybody always say, the sweet potatoes, is that bad? No, it's not bad for you. That's what we prefer because anytime you see colors too, sweet potatoes- -the orange tint in that, that's actually still, they still fall in the same glycemic index because sweet potatoes, they are a little sweeter. People fail to understand that. They are a little sweeter. They may have different nutrients, but they are sweeter, which makes them just as high from a glycemic index standpoint as regular potatoes. You know what I mean? And so-- [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: What about when--

Daphene Altema-Johnson: Go ahead.

Brian Lehrer: I'm sorry, do you want to finish the thought? Go ahead.

Daphene Altema-Johnson: No. No, you good. No. You good.

Brian Lehrer: Well, I'm thinking there are different kinds of potatoes, and Sophie you can jump in on this too if you want, but russets, Yukon golds, there are even different kinds of sweet potatoes, Beauregard, Okinawan. From a health standpoint, do any of those varieties become very different from others?

Daphene Altema-Johnson: Yes. The answer is, yes. A lot of things too. People are not aware that we have those different types of potatoes. They don't know. If you don't know, you won't try it. The purple and the red ones are actually really healthy for you. The reason is because of their pigments. When you see pigments, you have to think of antioxidants, meaning they can reduce inflammation in your body, they support disease prevention.

If you said, "Well, I don't want the yams or sweet potatoes, I don't want to do white potatoes," and you see red potatoes, that's actually healthier. Red potatoes have the highest levels of vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals in all the group of potatoes. Yes, not all potatoes are created whole so to speak.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. It's not in the article, but I've read about this category called resistant starches, which are better for you than some other starches. Are you familiar with that and does that pertain to white potatoes?

Daphene Altema-Johnson: Well, not necessarily white potatoes, so to speak, yes. It's all has to do, again, going back to some starch are considered resistant because of they resist digestion because of the molecules. That's basically why they said, "Oh, some starches are resistant because the way they pass through your digestive tract without being digested." The thing is, what studies have shown is that because of that, that has some health benefits to it. We have not looked too much into it, but that's basically what it means when we say resistant starch. It basically mean that it bypass the digestion process. It goes straight to the absorption process, and that itself has some benefit for your gut.

Brian Lehrer: Sophie, importantly right now, and Daphene touched on this, high prices in grocery stores, inflation. Your article says potatoes are also inexpensive and found year-round in grocery stores making them more accessible. This is part of a broader point, perhaps about how you don't have to spend too much to eat for your health.

Sophie Egan: Right, exactly. As Daphene had noted, potatoes across the board, and certainly, there's a variation in the meaning of the word potato because there's lots of different types, but that in general, they're rich in vitamin C, potassium, fiber, and other nutrients, especially when consumed with the skin. This point about accessibility, but also familiarity and desirability, people like the taste of them is really relevant, which is one of the points I've made in my writing is that the most nutritious fruits and vegetables are the ones you eat.

It's really important to consider that behavioral aspect as well and again, opt for healthier preparation methods. We're not talking about French fries here. We're talking about roasting, baking, boiling, that kind of thing.

Brian Lehrer: Good point.

Sophie Egan: It is important to consider just having a whole variety of foods that are widely accessible, that are widely available at price points that people can afford, and that are culturally relevant in a wide array of cuisines. We can't overlook the importance of those factors.

Brian Lehrer: All right, very good. That's all the time we have for today's installment. Daphene Altema-Johnson is a program officer with the Food Communities & Public Health Program at the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future. Thank you so much.

Daphene Altema-Johnson: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Brian Lehrer: We will continue tomorrow with Sophie Egan, author of the book, How to Be a Conscious Eater: Making Food Choices That Are Good for You, Others, and the Planet as we continue to go down the list in her recent New York Times piece, 10 Nutrition Myths Experts Wish Would Die. Sophie, talk to you tomorrow.

Sophie Egan: Thank you. See you then.

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