Announcer: Listener-supported, WNYC Studios.

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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Today we have a Brian Lehrer Show, summer Friday special, as the team and I take a break to decompress a little bit this weekend. Today, we will re-air a series we did in July called Your Anecdotal Census. With the 2020 census still in full swing, we took some of your stories reflecting this moment in time. First, you'll hear from people who have recovered from COVID-19 and how census data informs and helps fund hospitals. Then we'll talk to callers about protesting during the pandemic, and how the census can provide resources for marginalized groups. Then we'll hear stories from immigrants and those who have left urban areas during the pandemic.

We'll conclude the show with calls on the things you bought or stopped buying during lockdown. Tying all those topics in with the 2020 census, it was fun when we did it live, and we think you'll enjoy hearing it today. To be perfectly blunt, all these interesting stories are a way of reminding everyone just how vital the census is to funding all the things that impact us the most, our hospitals, our schools, our communities, and we're trying to get the response rates up in our listening area. If you haven't already, fill out your census form, fill out your census form, fill out your census form, head to my2020census.gov to fill out your form. My 2020census.gov, it just takes a couple of minutes, but it makes all the difference in funding our future.

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We are reviving a call in series from exactly one decade ago. It was called then as it's called now, Your Anecdotal Census. Just like the 2020 census, it's a snapshot of our lives at this moment. Unlike the regular census, we will be asking for your stories, not just your data. Since this is an unprecedented time, we're going to start right now with your anecdotal COVID-19 census. The current tally by The New York Times reports over 411,000 cases in New York, over 178,000 in New Jersey since the beginning of the pandemic. Listeners, this is an invitation right now for you to call in. If you have tested positive for COVID-19 at any point, we want to know how was your testing experience.

After testing positive for the virus, did you then get tested? That's our anecdotal census question for today. If you have tested positive for COVID-19 at any point, we want to know how was your testing experience and did you then get tested for antibodies at the point at which you felt you were recovered, (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280. One more time, it's Your Anecdotal Census for anyone who has had an actual positive COVID-19 test at any time, we want to know how was your testing experience. Did you then get tested for antibodies later, and how did that turn out? As your calls are coming in, joining me briefly to talk a little bit about how the government census intersects with the pandemic is Brian Lehrer Show associate producer, and general all around census maven, Amina Srna, who is immersing herself in all things census. Hi, Amina.

Amina Srna: Hi, Brian.

Brian: Before we get into the 2020 anecdotal census with our callers, what's the current status of the actual 2020 census in terms of response rates?

Amina: As of July 14th, the national average stands at 62%. New York ranks 38th nationwide with a response rate of just over 58%. That's according to a report by the New York State comptroller. New Jersey is currently at 64%. Connecticut did a bit better, the state comes in at just over 65%, according to census data. It is home to the city with the lowest response rate. According to Business Insider, Hartford, Connecticut has the lowest response rate of any city in the country of at least a hundred thousand people. That's 44% filling out their forms so far. Because so many people in our listening area with connections to Puerto Rico, I'll add that the island is coming in with the lowest response rate in the country, just under 25% as of July 16th.

Brian: Wow. That is so different from the actual States in our area. Listeners, take that to heart. Even just this little bit that we've done so far. We get a little New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Puerto Rico competitiveness going here, it'll be good for everybody. Come on, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Hartford is that lowest city in the country for response rates among cities with a hundred thousand people or more, Amina just reported. Get yourself online, if you haven't already at my2020census.gov. That's one of the reasons we're doing all these different kinds of census segments on the show.

We hope they're creative and interesting, but we're also just trying to help get our response rates up at my2020census.gov. How are those states going get their numbers up, whichever states are low or cities are low or a commonwealth in the case of Puerto Rico, will there be census takers this year, even during the pandemic?

Amina: Yes, even during a pandemic. The majority of census offices will deploy census takers to go door to door, to non-responsive households starting on August 11th and concluding by October 31st. Now, in a normal year, that work would have wrapped up by July 31st. Of course, the best way to ensure that a census taker doesn't come to your door is to fill out your form.

Brian: How can people do that?

Amina: [chuckles] You just said it, but I'll say it again my2020census.gov, or you can actually call and do it over the phone. That number is 844-330-2020.

Brian: That's good to know because some people do find the phone easier than the computer. (844) 330-2020, (844) 330-2020. Amina, how could the census data from this year be used to help during an outbreak because a pandemic is not something that the census makers had in mind when they were making up the census questions?

Amina: Yes, that's right. There's actually a recent precedent for this. According to Julie Menin, the director of the census for New York city, last year, NYC health and hospitals used census information in order to make sure hospitals in certain counties hardest hit by the measles outbreak, were stocked with enough vaccines. Kaiser Health reported last week that scientists are "cautiously optimistic" that we'll have a COVID-19 vaccine by spring. If we have a vaccine by next year, accurate 2020 census data would be pretty helpful in making sure that the right amount of vaccines get distributed to hospitals in our neighborhoods.

Brian: What if there isn't a vaccine next year? Does the census still help with the COVID-19 response?

Amina: Yes. Even if there isn't a vaccine by next year, filling out the census for your area will help get funding to hospitals nearby. Census officials in our area, think of filling out your forms as a national competition. Census data guide how almost $1.5 trillion a year in federal funding is distributed for healthcare and schools and so on. The more New Yorkers fill out their forms, the more money New York gets.

Brian: Amina Srna, Brian Lehrer Show producer and maven on all things census, we will talk to you later on. In fact, tomorrow as the anecdotal census series continues for a few days this week. Thanks for all that. What should we call it? All that 411 that you provided us.

Amina: 411 on the 2020 census. Thank you so much, Brian.

Brian: Thanks, Amina. All right. Now to Your Anecdotal Census, first question on the table is if you actually tested positive at any point, how was your testing experience and did you later get tested for antibodies? We'll start with Angelina in Yonkers, Angelina, you're on WNYC. Thank you so much for calling in.

Angelina: Hi. How are you? First, I love your show. [chuckles]

Brian: Thank you so much.

Angelina: Back in April, my husband actually came down with COVID symptoms first. He went to get tested, he tested positive. Then a few days later I started to come down with symptoms as well, but my doctor told me that because of the shortage of tests, it didn't make sense for me to get tested because chances are I probably did have the virus, and we'd have to quarantine anyway. That's what we did. We all quarantined. Then a few months ago, both me and my husband went to go get tested for antibodies, and we both present positive for antibodies.

Brian: Has testing positive for antibodies affected how you act in the world? Because the experts say the antibodies probably do give you immunity from the virus for a period of time, but they don't really know.

Angelina: No. I don't think it changed how I act in the world. We were wearing masks pretty much everywhere before this. and now we're continuing to do so. Again, I definitely don't think it changed the way I acted. I also feel like the world around us has also changed dramatically I think, at least in our near circle everyone's cautious. I think that I just have been behaving pretty similarly since we tested positive for antibodies.

Brian: Angelina, thank you so much for starting us off, call again. Elizabeth in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: Hi, how are you?

Brian: It looks like you have a pretty unusual testing story.

Elizabeth: [chuckles] Yes. When [unintelligible 00:11:02] was doing the state testing for free at grocery stores and such, I was tested. Within a couple of days, I got the text that said the results were-- this was the antibody testing. They said that I had the antibodies that had the virus. It had what appeared to be a birth date in the text, which was not my birth date. I thought well maybe that's just some code. In having the antibodies, thinking I have antibodies, I decided to donate plasma, so I made an appointment for that. I then tried to track down information just to be sure.

It turned out they had actually sent me the incorrect results. They'd sent me someone else's results, and it took me about four days to finally get them to send me the results with my birthday on it which turned out to be negative. I then actually asked the plasma people I said, “I don't know what is correct at this point.” They said, “Come on in, and do the testing anyway” I did and I neither had antibodies nor the virus. It was a bit of a confusion there.

Brian: It's a good thing that you were able to figure it out, you noticed it, you wouldn't have necessarily noticed it that the birth date was wrong, and that gave you the indication that you had somebody else's test result. That’s a good tip for everybody else, take a close look.

Elizabeth: Yes. I actually had luckily sent it to someone who is in the healthcare world and she was the one who said, “Yes, I think that's probably a birthday, you should check it out.” That's what happened.

Brian: Elizabeth, thank you very much. Emily in Ossining, you're on WNYC, hi Emily.

Emily: Hi Brian. I have to go outside. I'm in a store now. Yes, I got tested on April 9th. I already knew that I had it because-- Not yet, on the telephone. I already knew I'd be positive because my son told me to smell vinegar, and if I couldn't smell, it I must have it. [chuckles] I lost my sense of smell for a few weeks.

Brian: That's the home remedy coronavirus test. Go ahead.

Emily: The home remedy right. I'm one of the very lucky ones, I'm going to be 77 in October, and my symptoms were not as bad. I mean I felt like I got hit by a Mack Truck, I was exhausted all the time. I lost the my sense of smell. I learned that my normal temperature is not 98.6 it's more like in the low 97 range. I did have a fever, but I didn't realize it until I was better, and then my temperature went lower.

Brian: Once you were better, did you then get tested for antibodies?

Emily: My doctor, at first, she said the antibody test wasn't that reliable. Then just about two weeks ago, I had to go in to get my tetanus shot, so she did test me for antibodies and I tested positive.

Brian: Is that affecting your behavior? Because we can hear you're at a store, you're dealing with somebody face to face right now even as you're on the phone.

Emily: I went outside. I [unintelligible 00:14:28] my mask on. I went outside to get out of the store. We're in between two houses. We just rehabbed an old zombie house in Ossining, and we're moving from Briarcliff. Actually, we moved, but we're still bringing stuff from the old house to the new house. I'm so lucky because I got knocked out for a couple of weeks and I laid low. I went to the Westchester Medical Center for the COVID test when it was available. They were very efficient. I wouldn't say it was pleasant, but it was moments, It was just very brief. They put swabs up your nostrils, and then it's over. Took about five days to get the results, and it was positive, but I already knew. By the time I got the results, I already [unintelligible 00:15:19]

Brian: Emily, thank you so much for calling, and I'm glad you're feeling better and that you got through it okay. Because I'm sure you were concerned, and you said you're 77. I'm sure a lot of people who love you were concerned for you, and we're so glad you came through this well. Listeners, we've had a few interesting testing experiences already on the phone. Interesting also that the two callers so far who've come up with negative antibody tests have not let that affect the way they behave. In other words, at least these two, sample of two, not behaving like they were immune. How about you as we continue with Your Anecdotal Census, today's question, have you tested? If you have tested positive for COVID-19 at any point, how was that experience? Did you later go and get tested for antibodies? Miriam in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, Miriam.

Miriam: Hi Brian. This is Mariam, again, from Brooklyn. Love your show, I'm long time listener, first time caller.

Brian: Glad you're on. When did you test positive?

Miriam: We tested positive, my entire family and myself on late April, around April 29th or so, around there. Our experience was relatively positive. Again, like I was telling the screener started with my-- My husband is an essential worker. He works in a nursing home, so he was going back and forth. We think that might've been how we might've been exposed, but my husband and I were also going out every week for groceries and things like that. We don't know exactly how. In any event, it started with my youngest daughter who had a history of asthma. She started with symptoms. She definitely had symptoms.

I'm a nurse, so I was very aware of what was going on. She had the temperature and everything like that. Then shortly after that, my oldest daughter, who was basically quarantining with us, she lived by herself. However, she didn't want to quarantine by herself, so she was basically at our house, and she came down with symptoms. Then a couple of days later, I came down with symptoms.

Brian: Are you saying that your daughter who didn't have the virus at that point wanted to quarantine with you anyway because she had been exposed?

Miriam: When everything first started, she was with us in terms of us being a family and stuff like that. She didn't really want to be at home by herself. We were like, "Tou know what, we’re family.” There’s telling people you need to quarantine and stuff like that, so you guys we're basically by ourselves. I was able to work from home. My oldest daughter, who's a teacher, was working from home as well. My youngest daughter is a college student, so she was remotely learning.

Brian: This is a lot of people in your family who got the virus, and it sounds like you're all okay now. I hope that's the case. Did you all then get antibody tests?

Miriam: We did get antibody tested around May 23rd, and we all came back positive for antibodies. Our experience was relatively positive. We've got our results roughly around three to five days after.

Brian: With the positive antibodies, Miriam, which phase of personal reopening would you say you're in? Phase one, you're still on lockdown and you only leave the house for essentials. Phase two, you see immediate family only. Phase three, you have a small bubble of friends. Phase four, you'll even meet new people. Which phase of [chuckles] going back out do you feel like you're in?

Miriam: It's interesting because, actually, because even though I'm a nurse, I was able to work from home, but I was mandated to come back into my office. Right now, once a week I am in the office. I'm not sure where that phase falls in. Then basically, we're in our own little social bubble where we go out. If my daughters, if they interact with anyone, I'm like, "You guys--" We look at it like two weeks later, "How are you feeling? Are you having symptoms?" Then we assess it that way.

Brian: Since you're a nurse, I'm curious how your employer is dealing with you since you tested positive for the antibodies. Are they treating you as somebody who's probably immune or not really?

Miriam: No, not really because I did contact them when I tested positive, and I was able to get two weeks off as per the governor's mandate or something, so I was able to get two weeks off. When they were looking at who was going to come back into the office, I don't think that figured into it because my manager did know that I was positive. It didn't figure into it. They said, "You still have to come in." Just coincidentally, my dad and my mom were also affected because I lost my mom to it.

Brian: Oh, I'm so sorry.

Miriam: They weren't with us. We weren't quarantining together. They contracted it separately. I had to actually go and take care of my dad at some point as well. There was a lot going on, but we're all--

Brian: That's a lot going on. You've been through it. All right. Thank you for calling us. I'm glad that was your first call to the show. Please don't make it your last. Sienna in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Sienna .

Sienna: Hi, Brian. Thanks for taking my call. I came down with COVID around the end of March. I had pretty severe symptoms, but not for long. I wasn't hospitalized. Then I got tested once in April, I was positive. Then I got tested again in May, and I was still positive though my symptoms had abated. I didn't have fever anymore. It's pretty much okay. Then in June, I finally tested negative. I had no problems going with drive-through out in Little Neck. I didn't have any issues getting an appointment or getting tested. However, the down side of everything, even though I tested positive, I lost my sense of smell and taste so far for four months. A small population of people that get different types of coronaviruses such as SARS or MERS or COVID, it can last for years, which had been for some flu, I've had SARS and COVID.

Brian: Interesting in your experience too that even after you felt better, even a month later, you were still testing positive for the virus, it sounds like. Did you get tested for antibodies at any point?

Sienna: No, they didn't feel that it was worth doing it. My doctor said I didn't need to get tested for antibodies at this point. I feel fine. There's no other issue regarding that. Even though I tested negative down at some point it doesn't mean that my smell and taste is going to come back at any time soon.

Brian: Sienna, I hope it does. Thank you for that call. Thanks to all of you who called with your positive COVID test experiences, Brian Lehrer on WNYC, more to come.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC, now we continue with our summer Friday special. Today we're re-airing our July series from the show called Your Anecdotal Census. We won't be taking your calls, but you can always join the conversation by tweeting us @BrianLehrer.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC and this week on the Brian Lehrer show we're reviving a call in series from exactly a decade ago called Your Anecdotal Census. Just like the real 2020 census, it's a snapshot of our lives at this moment. Unlike the regular census, we're asking for your stories, not just to answer a few data questions. Yesterday, if you were listening we heard your anecdotal experiences with COVID-19 in certain respects that we brought up. Today, we'll talk about something else that has come to define this year so far, the Black Lives Matter protests following the police killings of George Floyd, and Breonna Taylor, and Tony McDade, and others, the apparent vigilante killing of Ahmaud Arbery and more.

Listeners, this is an invitation right now for you to call in if you have participated in the Black Lives Matter protests. Here's the anecdotal census question we'll put on the table. When was the first day you went out to protest, and did the pandemic make your decision easier or harder? (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280. When was the first day you went out to protest? You don't have to know the exact calendar day, you don't have to be able to say it was May 29th, as opposed to May 30th but roughly. When was the first time you went out to protest after George Floyd was killed, and did the pandemic affect your decision in any way?

Did it make it easier or harder or change it? (646) 435-7280. In other words, did fear of getting the virus make it harder for you to decide to go and protest in a crowd? Did something about life during the pandemic make you more inspired to take that risk? Did that matter either way? (646) 435-7280. Maybe you're a so called essential worker who already felt angry because of risks you were being asked to take on the job and others weren't. Maybe your neighborhood was getting hit harder than others with virus cases, and you couldn't flee to a country house like some wealthier people could and already felt like a season of injustice before George Floyd was killed. Maybe that had nothing to do with it.

Whatever the answer is for you, when was the first time you went out to protest after George Floyd was killed? Did the pandemic make your decision to do that easier or harder or different in any way? (646) 435-7280. As your calls are coming in, back with us to break down the intersection of the government census, the real census, and the racial justice protests this year is Brian Lehrer Show associate producer, and Maven of all things census, Amina Srna. Hi, Amina.

Amina: Hi, Brian.

Brian: The core of the Black Lives Matter movement has been about protesting police brutality toward black people, but also about racial injustice in this country in general, obviously. What does the census have to do with racial disparities?

Amina: We won't know until the census is finalized, but NPR reported last month that nationally black residents risk being undercounted by 3.68% on par with the undercount of 1990. If that sounds low, that's actually 1.7 million black people that will not be considered in federal resources for the next decade.

Brian: Why should people participating in the protest movement fill out their census forms?

Amina: I talked to Lurie Daniel Favors the interim executive director of the Center For Law and Social Justice CUNY's Medgar Evers College. I asked her how the census ties into the goals of the Black Lives Matter movement. Here's a one minute clip of what she had to say.

Lurie Daniel Favors: A lot of times we find ourselves particularly as black people protesting for things that at their heart are about the distribution of resources and power. When we're protesting for classrooms, for smaller classroom sizes, for teachers to be certified in our schools, for our children to be taught in a way that's culturally responsive, that's about resources. When we're fighting for police reform, and we're fighting to have the entire defund policing movement, which is really looking at reallocating money that is currently in the police budget to programs like Save Our Streets or the M.A.N.U.P Program.

There are conversations right now about all of the violence taking place throughout Central Brooklyn and parts of the Bronx, and part of the argument has been if we only invest in police towers and police cars as opposed to investing in these quality of life program, programs that are going to address the issues of community violence at their heart, we would see different outcomes. That, again, is a question of resources.

Amina: Lurie went on to talk about how communities like Central Brooklyn and parts of the Bronx have been asking their community leaders to fund these anti-violence programs for years, but each time were told that there simply wasn't enough money. A large part of that is based on the 2010 census data. The communities that were undercounted 10 years ago continue to be underserved due to lack of monetary resources to this day.

Brian: What are some of the ways that the Census Bureau is making sure that black residents are getting counted in this year's census as much as possible?

Amina: A big campaign for the Census Bureau for the last few decades actually has been the Check Black Campaign. You know how this year it asks your race and then underneath it you can fill out your ethnicity. Groups working with the census are saying, "If you're from African descent, check black first." Here's Lurie Daniel Favors again to break it down.

Lurie: Regardless of how you identify personally, you may see the word black and think, "Oh, that's an American thing. I'm Dominican or I'm Jamaican, so that doesn't apply to me." Let them know that actually in this country, it does apply to you, because anti-discrimination laws, voting rights protections, all of those things are going to be applicable for you if you are a person of African descent, even if you don't identify as a black American.

Amina: Lurie is helping to spearhead the Check Black Campaign. Another great resource for more information is blackcensus.org, and that's created by the Black Futures Lab.

Brian: Listeners the subtext here, fill out your census form. Fill out your census form. Fill out your census form. Go to my2020census.gov and fill out your census form, my 2020census.gov and fill out your census form. You don't need to know as much about the census as the Brian Lehrer Show's resident census Maven, Amina Srna. You just have to fill it out and help your community get counted. Amina, thanks again for joining us. We've got another one in this series tomorrow, I know. I'll talk to you then.

Amina: Thanks Brian.

Brian: Anecdotal census question for today, when did you first go out to protest after George Floyd was killed? Did the pandemic make your decision easier or harder? (646) 435-7280. Mary in Bay Ridge. You're on WNYC. Hi Mary.

Mary: Hi, Brian. Thank you very much. Your show has been so helpful to me through this pandemic.

Brian: Thank you. When did you decide to go out and protest?

Mary: It took me a while to make my banners, so I went out July 3rd. I was really afraid to go out and be in a crowd because I'm 67 and the whole COVID thing. I started out on the steps of a little church, a big church actually on my corner, and they shooed me away. I set up on a little V where Fifth and Fourth Avenue divide up here in Bay Ridge at 95th Street. I put up my piece banner with my slogans and signs and votive candles, and I sit there every night and talk to neighbors.

Brian: You do it and at your age, since you mentioned your age, without mixing all that, much but you're out there making a statement.

Mary: Exactly and a lot of people come by in honk horns. People come by and talk to me. The ambivalent people are the people that partially support me, I feel the most helpful to talk to and they do engage. The people with really negative things to say just yell at me and keep going usually. It's been a very wonderful experience, and it made me feel more productive. In fact, after a while I got feeling strong enough, I did join in the June [unintelligible 00:32:30] queer protest support for Black Lives Matter and was interviewed by a young ones from Gothamist, which was one of the highlights of my march there. It was so loving and so wonderfully organized by Valerie. It was hand sanitizers everywhere, little packets of goodies, and masks and earplugs, and everything you could want, instructions on how to be safe. It was just all about love, and it was so beautiful.

Brian: Thank you, Mary. Beautiful way to start us off. Stay strong, Debra in Crown Heights, you're on WNYC. Hey, Debra. Thanks so much for calling in.

Debra: Hi Brian. Big fan by the way. I'm a longtime listener. Second time caller actually.

Brian: Great to have you again.

Debra: [chuckles] My first protest was when things started to kick off in New York on that first one at the Barclays Center. It took me a while. I know that there were a lot of protests that came after this one, but this one I had like hours to mull over it because it went viral on Twitter. People were talking about it. I sat there for about four hours contemplating whether I should actually go because we're in the middle of a pandemic. It would have been the first time that I was in a large group of people since March. I think this was like two months ago.

I don't even remember, but I was just so honestly scared that I felt my passion about speaking out against the police brutality against black lives and me being a black woman, it was almost my duty to go out there. I felt like I had to. Of course, I was scared. I think I went to the protests and had to sit down for the first 25 minutes or so because I just felt I was going to pass out from anxiety, but it was worth it. It really was .

Brian: Then after that, did it get easier to go back and back? Did you do that multiple times?

Debra: It did. I took my boyfriend to another protest and I went out to another one on my own. It definitely got easier over time. That first one, it was just a lot. Like I said, considering that I take everything that we're hearing about the pandemic seriously, I just felt like it was going against everything that I was working towards, trying to keep myself safe. Here I was putting myself in this group. The love and the energy about people speaking out against this, it just overcame everything, and I just went with it.

Brian: Debra, thanks for telling your story. Make there a third call to the show at some point.

Debra: Thank you.

Brian: Thank very much. Make there be a third call. Roman in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Roman.

Roman: Hey, how you doing?

Brian: Good. What's the first protests that you went through this year, and how did the pandemic affect your decision?

Roman: The first protest I went to was on June 3rd. I was actually just scrolling through my Instagram, and I remember I posted about it, so I was looking for the date. My caption actually was pretty timely for this call. I wrote, "I understand we're in a pandemic. I understand protesting right now is not the safest thing, but neither is being black in America, and that's something to stand up for." I think that holds true now. That's how I was feeling that day. I have a big family. I have a lot of older members in my family. I live with my mom, and I didn't want to put anyone in danger. At the same time, it felt like the previous caller was saying, almost my duty. I didn't even have a choice. It was like this is too powerful to not stand up and get out there.

Brian: Did your mom have a problem with it?

Roman: My mom did not. I have been getting a lot of push back from other family members who won't let me come visit because I'm protesting, even though I have family members who are in the healthcare industry who are going to hospitals every day exposing themselves, which has been a little bit depressing. My mother, I didn't get negative feedback from her.

Brian: If you get a test, that might help. I know people who, for whatever reason, the older relatives are reluctant to have them come over. Then they get a test, and they go now. Of course, the test is only good until the next time you walk out the door, so it's not 100%. Just one point. Roman, thank you so much for your call. How about Yehudi in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, Yehudi.

Yehudi: Hi, I went out the first Saturday with people from my shul. I'm involved with JFREJ, JEWS for Racial and Economic Justice, which has a long relationship with Black Lives Matter. I'm over 60. It was the first time out in a group setting. It just did feel too necessary, to needed as a progressive white Jewish woman to stand up there.

Brian: Did you take any particular precautions or do anything to prepare yourself physically and emotionally to protest during a pandemic and again, at your age? Since you mentioned your age.

Yehudi: My friends and I who went from my shul did talk about distancing. The thing is, as other people said, they are so careful from the demonstrations except for the police, where they give out masks, they give out snacks [unintelligible 00:38:30] people. We weren't fully distant, but we weren't much together the way you would generally be at a rally. Also, as part of JFREJ, we take security measures because that's also a real thing of being concerned, what may happen to people in terms of security. Other people are much more active [unintelligible 00:38:58] city hall. Soon after that I started working back at work physically, so I haven't done as much. People from JFREJhave been there around the clock.

Brian: Yehudi, thank you so much for your call. Stay strong. Derek in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Derek.

Derek: Hello, is that me?

Brian: Yes, that's you.

Derek: How are you doing, Brian?

Brian: Good.

Derek: I've been protesting from the start. I've continued it. We've been doing things like providing food and water and providing bike support for marches. Just the fact of the matter is this protest is all about the fact that we pay a lot of money for police to incite violence in our communities, who keeps us safe, we keep us safe. The protest has been a nice reminder that it's all about the community. As this thing seems to be winding down in the streets, which is still happening in the streets, so don't stop if you're working. It's cool to see people getting more organized. A lot of these groups, shout-out to all the people I've been working with, we're starting to figure out what's going to be next when we take it away from the street. We've got elections coming up, we've got different things we got to work on. I'm excited to see where this all goes.

 Brian: What's next for you as you take it away from the streets?

Derek: I'm about to get back into work. Unfortunately, I've been laid off, so I've been a, full-time protester. What's next is trying to understand where change is possible. I actually had the privilege to talk to my own city council member by chance on the street just a couple of weeks ago. That was one of the most productive things that happened purely coincidentally. I think it's important to put yourself in spaces where you can actually have an impact.

 Brian: Derek, thanks so much for your call. We're taking your calls on today's edition of Your Anecdotal Census asking when was the first time you went out to protest after George Floyd was killed? Did the pandemic make your decision easier or harder? (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280. Pamela in Hoboken, you're on WNYC. Hi Pamela.

Pamela: Hi, Brian. How are you? I'm a huge fan of yours.

Brian: Glad you're on.

Pamela: I just wanted to share my anecdote, which is that I have three kids. My oldest son who's a rising college senior, and I went to the protest in Hoboken the first week of June. It was a very difficult decision because I tend to have some respiratory issues, and also because my husband is a physician, and he rounds in a hospital. The nursing home where he works was converted to a federally-mandated COVID facility. We were already on high alert at home because he was returning to us every day, and we were pretty stressed out trying to isolate from everyone else, but trying to welcome him home and appreciate what he's been doing.

Also, as soon as he would enter the house, we would Clorox all the handles and sterilize everything in his path. Then to go on this protest was difficult. My oldest son and I put our masks on, and I don't think we would have traded that experience for the world to be there to show our faces and support for our friends, our community all of the black lives who have been unfairly treated. It was just so special and so special to do with my son and important.

 Brian: Thank you for that wonderful story, Pamela. I appreciate it. Good luck to you and your husband and your son. Here's one from Twitter. "First protest was in DC. The day Trump went out for his Bible photo op. It was a tough call putting my family at risk for COVID. I had to distance from them for two weeks. Experiencing that, finally allowed me to experience police brutality first hand." That listener Ryan in Ridgewood, Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi Ryan.

Ryan: Hi, Brian. The first protest my husband and I went to was shortly after George Floyd's killing. We went to a vigil in Greenpoint. Up until that point, my husband, I had been very strictly social distancing. We were quite nervous, but we wore masks and we biked there. Immediately upon getting there, it was so encouraging because everyone was spaced out. There was a 30-minute silence. Everyone was sitting quietly respectfully, but the emotional piece of being together with community was overpowering and so invigorating, especially having been locked up for so long. We felt safe that we continued to protest over the next month or so doing a little bit more each time.

We did the big bike protest in Barclays down to the bridge all over to Prospect Park, which was amazing, so many bikers. Then we tried to look for-- one's in our local community and Ridgewood. On June 15th, the Ridgewood Tenants Union put together one. We found out about all of these just through various social media handles and promoters. That one was wonderful. One of the chants that we said was change starts here at home. It felt very important to be out and to use your body in a way that we felt safe. Honestly, everyone was wearing masks and keeping apart even in a big crowd.

Brian: That has to be the last word. I apologize, Ryan, but thank you for that story. Thank you all for your really beautiful stories of deciding to go out and protest for the first time despite the unknown risks of the pandemic. Brian Lehrer on WNYC, more to come. We'll continue our summer Friday special after the break when we'll hear your stories of being an immigrant in the year of COVID and George Floyd. Also, from callers who have left city life during the pandemic, and the things you bought and stopped buying during lockdown. First, it's the latest news right now from the WNYC newsroom.

Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, we continue with our summer Friday special. Today, we're re-airing a July series from the show called Your Anecdotal Census. We won't be taking your calls, but you can always join the conversation by tweeting us @BrianLehrer.

[music]

Brian Lehrer on WNYC, and all this week on the Brian Lehrer show, we are bringing back a call in series from a decade ago called Your Anecdotal Census. We did it in 2010. We're doing it in 2020 and just like the regular census. It's a snapshot of our lives at this moment. Unlike the regular census, we're asking for your stories, not just a few points of data. Yesterday, we heard your anecdotal experiences with protesting during a pandemic. Today, we'll invite calls from another specific segment of the population who struggles. Might've been a bit overshadowed by COVID-19 and Black Lives Matter news this year, but have been deeply impacted by the events of this year.

We know immigrants from anywhere. Our anecdotal census question for today is if you are an immigrant from anywhere, what should everyone else know about how COVID-19 is affecting your community and how Trump responses to COVID-19 on immigration policy are affecting your community? (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280. As we invite you in for an anecdotal census session on the question, if you are an immigrant from anywhere, what should everyone else know about how COVID-19 is affecting your community and how Trump responses to COVID-19 on immigration policy are affecting your community? (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280

As your calls are coming in, joining me briefly to talk about immigration and the 2020 census is Brian Lehrer Show associate producer and Maven of all things census Amina Srna, back with us today. Hi Amina.

Amina: Hi, Brian.

Brian : New York and Jersey are some of the most diverse States in the nation in terms of immigration, we know that. Immigrant communities are historically hard to count in census years and often underrepresented in the final count. Why are immigrant community so hard to count

Amina: The Census Bureau, especially the offices in New York and New Jersey have been working on immigrant community outreach for decades. The main challenge is explaining to such a diverse population, not only why the census matters to their communities, but also that filling it out won't expose them to greater risk. I spoke to Manhattan Deputy Borough President Aldrin Bonilla, and he put it this way.

 Aldrin Bonilla: The biggest challenge then as it is now is really convincing them that the Census Bureau data as it is aggregated is anonymous. Personal identifying information is not shared. It's not punitive or compliance in terms shared with your landlord. A public housing person might think, "They know how many people in my household. They might know what my money is, and then they'll increase my rent or they will evict us." Someone might think, "Then they'll know that someone might be undocumented or that I wasn't born here," or things of that sort, and that will have repercussions negative repercussions.

Amina: Deputy Borough President Bonilla was part of organizing the Dominican community census responses in Washington Heights and Inwood for the 2000 and 2010 censuses.

Brian: It was pretty successful that campaign, wasn't it?

Amina: In 2000, the Dominican community in those neighborhoods had the highest mail and response rate in all of New York State and beat out all the other neighborhoods in New York city in 2010. As a result, Bonilla says the community was able to justify funding to build out six more schools within two decades in the area, and they were able to send the first Dominican-born and formerly undocumented. congressman to the House of Representatives, and all because they filled out their census forms.

Brian: Listeners who are Dominican-American, and listening right now, we invite you to call in on a anecdotal census question for today. If you are an immigrant from anywhere, including the Dominican Republic, what should everyone else know about how COVID-19 is affecting your community and how Trump's responses to COVID-19 on immigration policy are affecting your community. Dominicans or anyone else, (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280. I think, Amina, that a lot of people don't know that the census over the last several decades has revealed that Dominicans are the largest immigrant community and by far in New York City since the 1960s.

If you haven't already, listeners, you can fill out your census form at my2020census.gov. If you prefer to call, the census is also available in 13 different languages on the phone. They all have separate numbers that you can find online, but the English language number is (844) 330-2020. (844) 330-2020. That's really the hook for this whole series. It's great to hear your stories, everybody, on your anecdotal census. The subtext is fill out your census form, fill out your census form, fill out your census form. As Amina is explaining, immigrant communities are frequently underrepresented. It's even more important for you to make sure that you fill out your census form. Then for some other people, my2020census.gov, my2020 census.gov, or (844) 330-2020.

Now the Trump administration's latest move attempts to exclude non-citizens from the numbers used to apportion congressional seats across states. That's after the census. That will also impact the way that congressional district lines are drawn within states. New York and New Jersey could lose out. Other states with fewer immigrants can gain. The Supreme Court decided that the administration cannot ask the citizenship question per se on the 2020 census. How will they know who's not a citizen and therefore excluded afterwards if they actually try to do that, Amina?

Amina: It's pretty unclear. It's hard to tell how the administration will go about making that determination. In four states, Iowa, Nebraska, South Carolina, and South Dakota, they've all agreed to share driver's license information with the federal government, but those records don't indicate someone's immigration status according to NPR. Immigrants rights activists and the Census Bureau officials are also challenging this memorandum. It's saying it's unconstitutional stating that congressional representation is apportioned based on the language in the 14th Amendment which is "the whole number of free persons" not just citizens.

Brian: Brian Lehrer Show associate producer and census maven, Amina Srna. Thanks for all the info. For all the 411 on my2020.

Amina: Thanks so much, Brian, talk to you later.

Brian: Now listeners to your anecdotal census calls for today on the question if you are an immigrant from anywhere, what should everyone else know about how COVID-19 is affecting your community, and how Trump responses to COVID-19 on immigration policy are affecting your community. (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280. Biba in Jersey City, you're first up. You're on WNYC. Hi, Biba, thank you so much for calling in.

Biba: Thank you, Brian. Thank you for taking my call. I have called in over the years on immigrant issues, and it's always on very positive note. What I have benefited as an immigrant from India. This time I'm calling because with COVID-19, what you have explained. There are two. three things I want to speak about. One is the H-1B visa. That's going to be severely curtailed, especially for Indians who have been studying here and applying for jobs. It's going to be very difficult. I've come across a lot of graduates and postgraduates who are going back. They're unable to

even get the one year work visa which is permitted after graduation. That is one of the reasons, and then, of course, students coming here for higher education from India and other South Asian countries, that's going to have a big impact. I think universities are also seeing a decline in foreign student applications, especially when they come for the highly specialized courses. I think that will be a big impact especially from India.

Brian: Trump says that because there's so much unemployment in the country, they need to restrict the H-1B visas, for example, so that there isn't as much competition with American-born workers who may be thrown out of work. Of course, a lot of other people see it as just an excuse to limit legal immigration in any way that they can. I'm curious what you would say back to the argument that there's so much unemployment in every field now because of the viral shutdowns that this policy makes sense.

Biba: Yes, from that perspective given the government and the high unemployment, but when you see people who are already here on H-1B visas and they're contributing to the companies, to the economy, paying the taxes, social security, and in some highly specialized areas they're doing whether in medical and technology, they're still on H-1Bs. If those visas are not extended for another three to six years, then these people will have to just go back. I wonder how American companies especially in the tech field, in the medical field, in the science field, I think there will be an impact over there because they will have to look for those specialized-- They have been employing people from other parts of the world because of their specialized skills.

Brian: That's exactly right, and that's what an H-1B visa is. It's a visa for people who have skills that the employers can't find in the US-born community. Biba, thank you so much for that call. Michelle in Williamsburg. You're on WNYC. Hi, Michelle. Thanks for calling in.

Michelle: Hi. I'm calling because not for myself. I am an immigrant and I am from Haiti. I came to this country when I was 11 years old in 1967. What I did witness the other day was devastating to me because I was sitting Corona, Queens [unintelligible 00:58:00] from a friend's house. It must've been about 12 midnight. A young Mexican kid was on a bicycle, and a car came from out of nowhere and just ran him over, and the car took off. Now, when I jumped up, we jumped up, all his friends came and they were taking him away. They were trying to prop him up. He couldn't stand up, so they let him go and he hit his head again against the pavement. The kid was super hurt and we were trying to, "Please, let's call an ambulance."

They were like, "No, no, no, senora. No, senora. Don't worry about it. He lives somewhere over here." They took him away. It dawned on me that this young man was going to die, but he might have been here illegally and they did not want to take him to the hospital because was afraid that if he revived, they would have deported him. They prefer to take him somewhere, and hopefully, maybe they'll find some cure for him. This is what ICEs does to people. We don't really know how many people live in here, and when they get hurt, and when they die, because people are hiding from ICEs. When you're doing the census, there are a lot of people who are living in the shadow because they just cannot put themselves out there even when they're run over by a cab.

Brian: Yes, hiding from ICE, which for people may be in the position of the poor kid you were talking about might be more of an imperative in hiding from ICEs. Imagine if people-- and we know this happens, that people decline to get healthcare that they need because they're afraid that their undocumented immigration status is going to catch up with them by having any kind of contact with the system. Then imagine how much that must deter people from filling out their census forms.

Biba: Precisely. With the census, I don't know, maybe they're missing maybe a quarter of the population in New York City, because I was a New York City teacher, I worked in that area. I visited many school there, and I've gone to the school there where most of the kids were from another country and not necessarily born in the United States. I'm very familiar with the area, and if I see something like that and to see how they just carry him away and not want to get medical care for him, it was horrible.

Brian: It sounds absolutely horrible and traumatic. I appreciate you calling in because it's obviously hard for you. What an emotional, horrible thing to even be a witness to, and yet people need to hear these stories because that's how prevention is going to happen. Michelle, last question, did you fill out your census form?

Michelle: I did that I think two months ago online. I always do it now that all my friends are doing.

Brian: Please call us again.

Michelle: Okay, thank you.

Brian: Listeners, how about you? If you are an immigrant from anywhere, what should everyone else know about how COVID-19 is affecting your community, and how Trump responses to COVID-19 on immigration policy are affecting your community? 646-435-7280. Victoria in Harlem. You're on WNYC. Hi, Victoria. Thanks for calling.

Victoria: Hi. Good morning, Brian.

Brian: Good morning. You have a story to tell.

Victoria: Yes. So I moved to New York seven years ago from Ukraine. I worked for the UN and then I went back to school to Baruch College. I was on a student visa, then I did my optional professional training as an F-1 visa student. It lasted a year, and then I was lucky to get an H-1B visa and I worked for CUNY that I really enjoy, and it's such a great place to work. The problem is that when you get your H-1B visa status confirmed, it's just basically a paper that allows you to work and stay in the country legally, but then you have to cross the border and go to the American consulate to get the visa stamped in your passport.

I was not able to do it before the COVID because I just didn't accrue enough of vacation days to travel. Now I am terrified to go home and visit my family because I am not sure that I will be able to return with the new Trump regulations with the H-1B visas. I don't know if they will actually put the visa stamp in my passport.

Brian: Yes, so you don't know if you can go home to visit even and be able to come back.

Victoria: Correct. Even though my job paid all the visa fees. It's over $2,000, and my visa is technically confirmed, but I just can't. The immigration attorney advises against traveling till the end of this year. It's a weird situation when in theory, I have my papers in order and I should be fine, but now, seeing what's going on, I just can't risk it.

Brian: Victoria, thank you very much. Mike in Park Slope. You're on WNYC. Hi, Mike.

Mike: Hi, Brian. How are you?

Brain: Good, and you're an immigrant from?

Mike: I'm from Canada. My wife and I both have have green cards. We have a daughter who was born here who is a dual citizen. I was just telling your screener, my wife, luckily, can work from home. I can't, so I have to be here. We took our family back to Canada to go up to our vacation to our cottage. On the way there, we had to provide the government with our name, our email, our phone number, our contact, a place where we'll be residing, and we had to quarantine for 14 days. They had the option of questioning you, how are you going to get supplies because you can go out for supplies. You had to have them delivered. You had to have almost like a plan in place.

Every couple days or so we'd get a phone call. When I came back by myself, there was nothing waiting for me at the airport. The day I left, Canada had 176 new cases total that day. I think it's going up to 300 this week, per day, but there's a plan in place. If you get back here and as long as you're legally able to come into the country, there's nothing in place for you. They don't care where you come from, as long as you're legally able to enter the country, which I think in a case like this we're not quite sure what this is going to do to everybody. You think the government would want to have something in place or some way of notifying you that you might have come into contact with someone or-- There's nothing here.

Brian: Mike, thank you very much for that story, unfortunately. Amira in Manhattan. You're on WNYC. Hi, Amira. Thanks for calling.

Amira: Hi, how are you?

Brian: Good. How are you?

Amira: Good.

Brian: You're an immigrant from?

Amira: I am an immigrant from Egypt. I moved here when I was three years old. I was the first US citizen in my family, and most of my family is still over there.

Brian: Congratulations on citizenship. Anyway, go ahead. We've got about a minute left. What's the story that you wanted to tell?

Amira: Sure. I was mostly sharing about the difficulty of being a caregiver during this time and having family overseas. A lot of people in my community, including my own family, were having to decide between giving care to our elderly loved ones who are overseas and putting ourselves at risk of COVID. I have friends who have lost family members that they can't go visit. Their families are mourning. They can't attend any funeral services. I know that's happening locally too, but it's tough not knowing how long this is going to last and how long we have to wait to be able to be with our families and mourn together and take care of people who are sick.

Brian: Absolutely. Do you think it's a different decision as to whether to tend to your elder COVID positive relatives in person because of your immigrant status than it even would be for anybody else?

Amira: I think it's not so much related to-- Immigrant status is definitely taken into consideration for a lot of people because maybe they literally can't leave or literally can't come back. That's a big issue for some folks.

Brian: That has to be the last word, I'm afraid to say. Amira, thank you so much. Thanks for all of you who called on Your Anecdotal Census. We're going to have another anecdotal census questions right after this. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Stay with us. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, we continue with our Summer Friday special. Today, we're re-airing a July series from the show called Your Anecdotal Census. We won't be taking your calls, but you can always join the conversation by tweeting us @BrianLehrer.

[music]

Brian Lehrer on WNYC. All this week on The Brian Lehrer Show, we're are bringing back a call-in series that we originally did a decade ago called Your Anecdotal Census. We did it in 2010, we're doing it again here in 2020. Just like the real 2020 census, it's a snapshot of our lives at this moment. Unlike the regular census, we're inviting your stories, not just who lives in your house. Yesterday we heard your stories of being an immigrant in the United States in this unique year of 2020. Today's question is, have you left or are you considering leaving New York or New Jersey? Have you left or are you considering leaving New York or New Jersey?

646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. I'll throw in an addendum question to that one, however, which is have you left and wound up in some place with more COVID now and you're considering coming back? You can call us too at 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. We know from people we know, we know from reporting that there's a large number of people who have left their primary urban homes and went somewhere else during the pandemic. Obviously, not everybody has that privilege, right? One newspaper article estimated that the wealthiest 400,000 New York city residents have left. Who knows if that's a real number, but does it include you, and why? 646-435-7280. Are you planning on coming back, and what would determine when you consider the time to be right? Maybe you ran to Florida, as the opposite example now, for safety in April and now, boom, the situation is reversed. Urban planners are worrying that the depopulation of New York could be long-term. What are you doing? What are you thinking? If you haven't left, are you thinking about it, or dreaming about it, or angry at people who are doing it maybe, or the reverse, did you leave and now you're going to come back because we actually are getting this right and other places are not? 646-435-7280. For today's edition of Your Anecdotal Census, (646) 435-7280. As your calls are coming in, joining me briefly to talk about coming to or going from New York and New Jersey and the 2020 census is Brian Lehrer Show associate producer and maven of all things census, Amina Srna. Hi, Amina.

Amina: Hi, Brian.

Brian: The New York Times reported recently that "Rich New Yorkers" as they put it, in particular areas are leaving their primary residences and neighborhoods like the Upper East Side, Tribeca, and Soho, and because the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic coincided with the roll-out of the census, that migration could wind up skewing the census response and the response rates. How bad is the problem?

Amina: The Center for Urban Research at CUNY's Graduate Center has what it calls the hard to count map. On it, you can see the most up-to-date response rates by census tract. If we can pick on part of the Upper East side for a moment, the latest data shows that between East 70th and 77th Street from Park Ave to 5th Ave, the response rate is at 37.5%. Compare that to 2010 when the final response rate was 60.4%. To put that into perspective, that's on par with historically difficult to count neighborhoods like North Corona, Queens, which has a far lower rate of English proficiency and in general political involvement.

Brian: It's not that it's been hard to count historically in those wealthier districts and that area that you were citing, particularly Park Avenue between 70th and 77th Streets. It's just people are gone.

Amina: Yes.

Brian: For places like North Corona, the hurdle is meeting people where they are at and maybe providing census materials and support in Spanish and other languages. What about for wider, more affluent neighborhoods like the Upper East side or Soho? What's the major obstacle there?

Amina: I spoke to NYC census officials recently, and one major hurdle for those who are currently in their second homes is that the census does not do mail forwarding, which makes sense if we think about how the purposes to numerate people who live at a specific address. People might be filling out their census forms in their second homes in the Catskills, or in the Hamptons, or maybe even in Florida, but not where they spend most of their time in the city. The census mailer comes with a 12 digit census ID, so you can fill out your form online. The good news is that you don't actually need the census ID. You can still go to my2020census.gov and click on the bottom where it says you don't have your census ID and then just fill in your address manually.

Brian: Listeners, you can go to my2020census.gov no matter where you are. As I've been saying every day this week, this is the subtext for this whole series. It's great to hear all your stories. These call-ins have been wonderful, but also it gives us an excuse, Amina and me, to come on every day and say, "Fill out your census form, fill out your census form, fill out your census form." It's as easy, no matter where you have decamped to or not, as going to my2020census.gov, my2020census.gov. Amina, what about city dwellers in New Jersey? How are they fairing?

Amina: New Jersey's two most populous cities, Newark and Jersey City, are really trailing behind the state average, which is 64.2%. Newark is at 44.8% and Jersey City stands at 49.6%. Now, there could very well be people who have left Newark and Jersey City for literal greener pastures, but these cities also have a history of low response rates. In the case of Newark, there's a high proportion of people living below the poverty line, and Jersey City has a high rate of foreign-born citizen-- Citizens, excuse me, according to data analysis from the Associated Press.

Brian: Amina, should people fill out their census forms?

Amina: I think so, Brian. People can do it at my2020census.gov now no matter where you are. Especially if you are living in places that are historically under counted, getting your neighbors on board. Census officials have been telling me that just like let nine people know. Let 10 people know in your area or your family members just to fill it out, especially if they're living in parts of the city that don't usually get counted.

Brian: Good one. All right. WNYC Brian Lehrer Show producer, Amina Srna, maven of all things census. Talk to you one more time in this series tomorrow.

Amina: Talk to you tomorrow, Brian.

Brian: To your calls on your comings and goings from New York and New Jersey as a result of COVID, let's start with Thomas in Princeton. You're on WNYC. Hi, Thomas.

Thomas: Hi. Nice to talk to you.

Brian: You too. What's your story?

Thomas: I am a college student who goes to school in Florida at UCF in Orlando, but I live here in Princeton when I'm not at school. I'm about to start the drive down to Florida in a couple of days, and I'm pretty nervous about going back into that zone. I've already had a couple friends down there catch the virus. It's not the best feeling, but we're taking the precautions we can and not feeling too great about how the school decided to reopen things because it seemed like they announced that the classes were going to be mostly in person with social distancing, at least the smaller classes. They announced that in June, and then as the summer went on, they just started putting more and more classes online after kids started signing leases. It seems like we all got stuck going back down there again and not being able to take the gap years that we otherwise might have.

Brian: I'm curious, Thomas, if the feelings that you have about this have flipped and done a 180 over the last few months. Maybe in April, anticipating going back to school in Florida this fall you were like, "Oh God, good. I'm going to get out of this virus swamp of New York and go somewhere where it's safe," and now it's turned on its head.

Thomas: Yes, it was a total 180. It was a big swap. When I first came back to New Jersey to the social distance for the summer, I was worried that at that point, New Jersey was the hot zone [inaudible 01:17:23] where I was in Florida, and now that New Jersey is like back on the right path, I'm heading back into the hot zone that Florida has become.

Brian: It's finally around. Thomas, good luck down there. Thank you for checking in. Here's another New York. His was New Jersey but our region and Florida story. Heather in Miami. You're on WNYC. Hi from New York, Heather.

Heather: Hello. Hello from Miami in Dade, actually. What's the saying out of the frying pan into the fire?

Brian: I guess so. It's always the fire in July in Miami, but what's your migration story?

Heather: At last, my lease just happened to be up at the end of June. I lived in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Started to feel a bit unsafe, and when you're unable to see your friends and socialize, and one of the main reasons you're in the city is to explore and experience all the culture and when that's taken away, there's no reason-- Well, my boyfriend-- I missed that, is also in Germany. I figure come down to Miami, stay with my parents, spend some time with them and then wait until the borders open up to reunite with my boyfriend in Cologne. That's been a really interesting experience.

Brian: How hard was the decision for you to leave here and go to your parents' house down there?

Heather: It was a really hard decision, to be honest. It was bittersweet. I've spent 10 years of my life there. Most of my formative life has been spent there. My boyfriend was planning on moving to New York in about a year, and I travel a lot internationally for work. I would see him every month, every month and a half, which helped the relationship in that way. When that was taken away, the last time I saw him was in March. Weighing out all the odds and not feeling very safe it was so anxious. I'm so anxious living there. I miss New York. I miss my friends, I miss the people, I miss the unity, which I find in Miami is lacking terribly. I miss a lot of that, but there are certainly things that I don't miss. Not to say that I wouldn't move back there at some point, but that's certainly something that could happen in the future. Right now it's just too much. It just didn't make sense for me to stay and pay rent and live in an apartment by myself.

Brian: Yes, I hear you. It's daunting. I'm just curious if given the timing of your move from New York to your parents' house in Miami late June you said, were you like, "Am I supposed to quarantine from you or are you supposed to quarantine from me?"

Heather: The tables were turned, but being that I was here with my parents who are in their '70s and my sister is here with her niece, I thought it would be responsible for me to just quarantine myself voluntarily.

Brian: Yes, you did that.

Heather: That quarantine is over. I'm staying home for the most part. I couldn't deal with bringing something in by chance and giving that to my parents. [crosstalk]

Brian: Of course. Heather, Good luck. I hope you get to reunite with your boyfriend sooner rather than later, and thanks for checking in. Please do so again. Anna calling now from Kingston, Ontario, Canada. Hi, Anna. You're on WNYC.

Anna: Hi Brian. Thanks for taking my call. We left Brooklyn-- Sorry, go ahead.

Brian: No, you go ahead. You left Brooklyn--

Anna: We left Brooklyn at the end of March. My husband's from Kingston and so he has a Canadian passport. We were watching the borders close and the numbers in New York go up and up. We each had a friend who's an epidemiologist in different places. We each contacted our friend and said, "What would you do?" They both said, "I'd go to Canada if I were you," and we were driving the next day. We have two little kids and right now we're waiting. Do we stay for the school year? Do I go through immigration and all that, or do we go back to New York and take our chances there? What happens in the election is also hanging over our heads as we try to make this decision.

Brian: If you're up there now with school kids, are they having the same kinds of conversations that we are here about whether to open or--

Anna: Yes, they really are.

Brian: What kind of model, do you think?

Anna: Well, in Ontario, they're having all the school boards come up with three plans that are fully open in person, open fully online, or a blended model, and then they'll announce in early August for each district which plan they should follow. In Kingston, we're back down to having actually zero cases, which is remarkable. It seems much likelier that we'd be able to give our kids a normal and physically safe school year or normal or full-year up here. We miss our people and we miss our city. We're trying to weigh all that.

Brian: Ellen in Harlem. You're on WNYC. Hi, Ellen. Thanks for calling in.

Ellen: Hi, Brian. I have been planning for some time to retire to France. I am able to do it now. I filled out my census, so my body will be counted this time. I'm more eager than ever to get out of here and go to a quasi-democratic country where federal police are, in fact, SOP, normal, normally collaborative with the local police.

Brian: More for politics than COVID reasons and political culture.

Ellen: I'm sorry?

Brian: More for political reasons than COVID reasons. What if Biden wins?

Ellen: Yes. Exactly. It's normal to have them there. That's the way it is. The French police now consider themselves roughly equivalent to the FBI but it's not really so. They just do that because they want to be like the FBI, but they're not.

Brian: Is COVID informing your decision too?

Ellen: Well, it's an obstacle right now because although I have resident credentials, I want to fly low cost and my low-cost flight was canceled. I'm just twisting in the wind. What can I tell you?

Brian: Ellen, good luck. G in Manhattan. You're on WNYC. Hello, G.

G: Yes, Brian. Can you hear me?

Brian: I can hear you just fine. Hi.

G: Hi. How are you doing? I'm a huge fan. It's a great thrill to be on here. You're a New York treasure, for sure, and I listen every day.

Brian: Thank you.

G: Just wanted to put that out. I'm a musician. You were talking about leaving, right?

Brian: Yes.

G: I'm a freelance musician in New York. There's a bit of an existential crisis now. Of course, all the residencies and shows, live performances have been canceled. I got an 87 year old father who was a Holocaust survivor in Houston, Texas. He's alone. We just lost my mother last year. Now, I'm trying to decide if I should drive down there. In the beginning, when the cases were going crazy in New York we decided, just stay there until I could get tested and find out how safe it was. Now, the cases are down here and they're raging over there. It hit them late. I'm confused because also livelihood as a freelance musician in Houston is nothing like New York, but there's nothing in New York. You know what I mean? It's hard. I've never been so confused about making a decision for health reasons, for economic reasons, and also because the New York that I need isn't there right now. Live streaming is a poor substitute for live performance, in my opinion. That's where I'm at.

Brian: Not to mention getting paid. G, I don't have the solution for you, but you perfectly articulate the dilemma that so many people are going through. Please do call us again, maybe when you make your decision from here or from Houston, and keep us apprised of what's going on in the music world. That's what we're asking other people to do as well. Terry in Sag Harbor. You're on WNYC. Hi, Terry.

Terry: Hi. Hey, Brian. Thank you for taking my call.

Brian: Are you a new resident of the East end of Long Island?

Terry: Brand new. We just closed on the house last week and just moved in over the weekend. We left Tribeca, New York.

Brian: Really? I just read in Crain's, I think it was, today that property values are going up in the Hamptons. It's singled out the Hamptons. I know you're on the North Fork, but property values are going up in the Hamptons as they're declining in Manhattan. I guess you are one of the reasons that that's happening on Long Island.

Terry: Yes. We used to come out here every summer and we have young kids and they love to be out outside. For us it was really a decision around them being able to be outside in a yard without a mask enjoying the outdoors. We just found out a couple of days ago that the school they're going to go to out here is going to be in session and will have part of the day outside under like canopies so that they can be safe. We felt like for the childhood experience that it made more sense to leave Manhattan. If you had told me in January even of this year, I would have never believed we would ever, ever leave because we love it so much.

Brian: Did you fill out your census form?

Terry: We did. I filled it out the same day while we were still in New York. We're counted as New Yorkers, and I think we always will be. My husband is going to have an office-- I mean, he'll have an apartment there. I mean, our kids thought we were getting a divorce. I'm like, "No, no, it's just he has an apartment in the city."

Brian: That's funny. Tongues will wag, right?

Terry: They were like, "We really like how you're handling the divorce, mom."

Brian: By the way, I was thinking of Sag Harbor, I guess, incorrectly as a North Fork town. It's actually a South Fork town. It's just that you're on the bay side, not the ocean side, correct?

Terry: Yes. Even I know that, and I'm from North Carolina.

Brian: I should know that. I don't know why. Maybe I just think of ocean as South and anything North of that, but what do I know? One more. We're running out of time. Let's try Steven in Park Slope. Steven, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Steven: Hey Brian. You are a municipal and international treasure, to echo other callers. I came up to Park Slope in May because I'm a PhD student at the University of Miami studying climate change adaptation policy. That's a secondary issue now, unfortunately. New York just seemed like the place to be in May because my parents are up here. Most of my family's up here and my girlfriend lives here.

Brian: You came to New York in March from Miami as things were blowing up here and seemed a little better down there. Did you fill out your census form for one place or another?

Steven: I did fill out my census form down in Miami. I also voted in the primary down there, which was right in that span in March when things were really, really up in the air. I went to the polls in person because they had in-person polling down in Florida. I've got to figure out where do I vote in November?

Brian: Yes. You should figure it out. Yes. Make sure you register, and everybody fill out your census form, fill out your census form, fill out your census form, my2020census.gov. We'll have one more addition of Your Anecdotal Census with another question right after this. Brian Lehrer on WNYC, more to come.

[music]

Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, we continue with our Summer Friday special. Today we're re-airing a July series from the show called Your Anecdotal Census. We won't be taking your calls, but you can always join the conversation by tweeting us @BrianLehrer.

[music]

Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, all this week on The Brian Lehrer Show, we've been doing our series, Your Anecdotal Census. Just like the official 2020 census, it's a snapshot of our lives at this moment. Unlike the regular census, though, we're inviting your stories, not just who lives in your house. We've heard stories this week about your immigrant status during COVID-19, whether you've left New York, what your COVID testing experience was like, getting tested, how you decided to go out and protest despite the pandemic, and more.

Now, for our final installment, we offer you this anecdotal census question, how has what you spend money on changed during the pandemic? What are you buying more of, what are you buying less of, and have these changes made you think differently about the things you buy in normal time? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280.

Primarily just tell us what's changed in your purchasing. What are you buying more of, what are you buying less of since the pandemic era really hit and you're staying home more or doing whatever you're doing? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. We see Amazon expanding, but what are you getting shipped? We see clothing manufacturers being rocked. Yesterday the Ann Taylor chain announced a bankruptcy filing, did you hear that? A few weeks ago it was Brooks Brothers.

How do you do your buying, and what are you buying during the COVID era? I wonder how your buying patterns, your shopping patterns during COVID inform what might be happening nationally in the economy. Of course, everyone is primarily concerned with health and sanitation products, but maybe you have new habits and hobbies too. Maybe it's not just cutting back or finding new ways to get food. Maybe you have new stuff.

What changes might you keep in your life when this is all over? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. Joining me now to talk about how COVID-19 has impacted what people are buying and what the 2020 census has to do with it all is Brian Lehrer Show associate producer and census maven, Amina Sma, one last time in this series. Hi, Amina.

Amina: Hi, Brian.

Brian: We can assume that some of the most purchased items during this time have been health and hygiene-related. What are some of the businesses that did best and worst during the pandemic based on the statistics that are available?

Amina: digitalcommerce360.com put together the rankings of Amazon search terms for every month this year so far, and you really see the slow creep of COVID-19 awareness. In January, N95 masks were the second most popular item that people were looking for, and of course, by March all top 10 searches were COVID related. Whether that was hand sanitizer or surgical masks, and especially and toilet paper. That made a big entrance to the categories. According to Doby analytics, March, April, and May were the worst months to be a clothing retailer, as shopping for clothes basically came to a halt. The category that did really well was grocery e-commerce.

Brian: What about the items that weren't groceries or hygiene? What sorts of things were people buying to keep themselves entertained, for example, as concert venues and movie theaters and so on came to a halt during lockdown?

Amina: The coupon company Paciotti looked at Google search data from March, 2020, and compared it to data from the previous year. Searches for home gyms saw an increase of 376%, sewing, crocheting, and online games and courses were up 92%, and trailing that were puzzles, car games, and DIY projects.

Brian: That was early on in the pandemic. What about now?

Amina: Grocery e-commerce has begun to taper off as people are feeling better about going in store. Doby analytics, again, reports that a high demand early in the pandemic actually drove up prices on groceries by 7.2% online. Add that to delivery fees, and most people were starting to feel that price bump and returning to shopping in store if they could.

Brian: What does the census have to do with the economy or business?

Amina: So glad you asked. The census is going to be a really powerful tool for businesses as we emerge from the post COVID-19 economy. I spoke to Jeff Baylor, the Director for the Census Bureau's New York Regional Office, and he explained how any business can tap into the census for market research purposes. Here's a clip.

Jeff Baylor: Small businesses too. It's not just these large corporations, but people want to know what their potential customer base could be. They need to know the demographic data. They need to understand what the needs of that particular community are. I own a small daycare center, and let's say I want to open another daycare center. I'm going to want to go to a community that has young children. I'm going to need to know, do I need to hire staff that speak a particular language because the community that I'd like to grow into is extremely diverse and there's a lot of languages spoken there? That's going to help me determine that. The best way to understand what the needs are of the community is to understand what the community looks like.

Amina: The census is trying to close that loop and provide this information to businesses of any size, but especially small businesses can benefit. If you're a business owner looking to gain insight into your market, especially if you're looking to open or expand next year, you can visit the census business builder website, at cbb.census.gov.

Brian: Huh? What if you're a consumer?

Amina: If you're a consumer and you want a daycare in your area, or you want more bars and restaurants within walking distance, you can let businesses know where you are by filling out your 2020 census at my2020census.gov.

Brian: You mean people can still fill out their census forms?

Amina: Yes. People can and definitely should fill out their census forms at my2020census.gov.

Brian: You mean the whole subtext for this entire series that you've done such great reporting on for the last five days has been to get people to go to my2020census.gov and fill out their census form?

Amina: Fill out their census form, fill out their census form, fill out their census form.

Brian: Where have I heard that before? All right. Thank you for so much reporting this week Brian Lehrer Show associate producer, Amina Srna. Normally I'd say, "Well, see you around the water cooler," but not only are we not in the office, I don't think we're supposed to drink from shared water coolers anymore.

Amina: Virtual water cooler.

Brian: Yes. See you around the virtual water cooler on Zoom after the show. Thanks, Amina.

Amina: Thank you so much, Brian. Bye.

Brian: Angela in Flatbush. You're on WNYC. Hi, Angela.

Angela: Hi. How are you, Brian? Thanks for taking my call. I have a son who is home from school, and I am going to the grocery store and I'm buying a lot of cereals and cold cuts. I'm buying food for him, and what I'm not buying is clothing. I was telling your screener that I'm a person of color. I like to support black business and during the summertimes a lot of festivals. A lot of the vendors are now on Instagram and they're selling things live. As much as I would like to support them, I just don't see spending a few hundred dollars, which is what I typically spend a couple of times a year at these festivals when I have no place to go. Then the other thing that I thought about too is I'm watching everyone in a park work out, my next door neighbor has his personal trainer come to the house. I work out every day with a group of women. I'm thinking of canceling my gym subscription because I can work out from home, and there are different people who are doing different things on Zoom. That's the way to save money.

Brian: You know what somebody told me? That one of the things that you can't buy online because it's sold out is three pound weights, so there you go. About your teenager, you're saying cold cereal, like boxes of cold cereal, right, and old cuts. Those are his lockdown comfort foods?

Angela: Exactly, because he's a teenager that doesn't cook, I need him to have things available if I don't cook that he can grab and I can make sure that he has something to eat. He'll. have a big bowl of cereal. I'm going to-- I don't know about 12 boxes of cereal the giant sizes in the past couple of months and a lot of cold cuts and bread because I know he can take care of himself if I didn't cook anything.

Brian: All right. Well, I hope they're low-sugar cereals and low-sodium cold cuts. Angela, thank you. Hang in there.

Angela: Yes, definitely. Thank you.

Brian: Call us again. Lee in Teaneck. You're on WNYC. Hi, Lee.

Lee: Hi, how are you doing?

Brian: Good. What are you buying more of? What are you buying less of?

Lee: I'm buying a whole lot less of anything and everything. For the most part, I only buy basics what I need. I haven't gone crazy and bought a ton of toilet paper yet. For the most part, my work has gone down to very little, very few hours. I'm a freelance interpreter and nobody wants to hire. The jobs have gotten much, much fewer. Basically I work with my savings and what jobs I can pick up. I'm just extremely frugal.

Brian: Do you think it's changed your relationship with consumerism, if I can use that word, in a way that assuming things get back to better and more normal for you economically, it might change how you live and some ways that you will retain?

Lee: Well, I think yes, because most of my free money, so to speak, goes to visiting my children who live outside the country. Now I can't do that. If things pick up, and I can replenish my savings account so that I'm good for taxes, et cetera and I've got that extra money, then clearly, I'll start traveling again. For shopping and things like that, I shop when I need to. That's not a huge deal. It would just be nice to not have to be scared all the time about who's going to shop without a mask.

Brian: I hear you, Lee. Thank you very much. Diane in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Diane.

Diane: Hi, how are you?

Brian: Good. How are you?

Diane: Pretty good. Thank you. I just turned 77 actually. I'm definitely a senior citizen, can't avoid it anymore.

Brian: Congratulations. Happy birthday. The double numbers, those are always great birthdays.

Diane: There you go.

Brian: Double good luck in your case, 77.

Diane: [laughs] Thank you. I've been home a lot, a lot, a lot, which means that I haven't been spending money on clothing, and I haven't been spending money on any kind of entertainment, restaurants and so on. What I decided was, first of all, I continue to pay my cleaning crew. I have to say that was my daughter's suggestion and that seemed really, really appropriate.

I've done that since I haven't been having them here. In addition to which I just started making donations to places in New York City mostly where people need food. Some of them I've signed up for on a monthly basis and some of them were just a one-shot deal. Then for my birthday, I ask people to donate to [unintelligible 01:43:37] or races because the immigration issue is something very close to my heart. I haven't been looking at the stock market hoping everything is going to come back to normal or whatever.

Brian: Stock market isn't so bad. You're saying something really important, which is that all this money that you're saving because you can't, or there's no point in buying clothes because you're not going out, there's no ability to spend money on entertainment, things like that, you're taking stock, bad word, you're taking stock, though, of how much money you're not spending, and you're giving it to organizations that help the people who are really financially hurting during this period. That's what you're saying, right?

Diane: Well, yes. Somebody's got to do it. Unfortunately, the federal government has been a complete failure on that and any other issue relating to people not in the 1%. I just feel like, well, this is an immediate need.

Brian: Diane, thank you so much. I'm so glad you put that out there in that kind of way. It might be an inspiration to people, and may you live 77 more years.

Diane: [laughs] Thank you, Brian. I love your show.

Brian: Thank you very much. Terrence in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Terrence.

Terrence: Hey, good morning. How are you? It's Terrence from Brooklyn Social Club, NYC. Mostly what we've been pushing as a group and myself is really just spending more money on herbs and supplements. There's a lot of great herbs out there that a lot of people just don't know about, things like chaga and reishi. We think it's really important that people get in this pattern of staying away from things like cold cuts and refined sugars and really getting back to an immunity diet. I got to say like quarter to a third of my food stamps is really going towards more health than food and staying with--

Brian: More health than food.

Terrence: --Yes, but like food that really have non-GMO, that are really trying to do good for people's diets out there.

Brian: Terrence, thank you so much. Paul in Washington Heights. You're on WNYC. Hi,,Paul.

Paul: Oh, hello, Brian. I absolutely enjoy your show every weekday. I'm a member of the Country Dance & Song Society. I work for an organization in New York called Gotham Early Music Scene. I've spent a lot of money, certainly all of my CARES Act money tipping musicians who are performing online, folk musicians in the first group and early music performers in the second. There's a lot of good music out there, but they need our support.

Brian: Paul, thank you very much. Herman in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Herman.

Herman: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. My personal shopping experience didn't change. However, I work at a jewelry wholesale company, and we saw an insane uptick in jewelry sales. July is usually the deadest month of the year for jewelry, and we are busier than December.

Brian: Really? How do you explain it because if people aren't going out as much, then presumably they would need things like jewelry as much.

Herman: I don't have an exact explanation. A lot of store owners say that people got more money, so they have more. If someone didn't lose their job and they did get some extra money, they can spend it on a piece of jewelry they have wanted for a long time. Or maybe there's some other explanation. I can only say what I see. I don't know the reason.

Brian: Interesting report. All right, Herman, thank you very much. Well, there are a number of interesting stories there on how people are spending money differently during the pandemic, and also redirecting money that you aren't spending on things you usually would buy from some of our callers. Thank you for all of that. That concludes our series, Your Anecdotal Census. Oh, by the way, fill out your census form, fill out your census form, fill out your census form at my2020census.gov. That's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC for today.

I hope you enjoyed our Summer Friday special, re-airing our July series on the 2020 census, Your Anecdotal Census. By the way, you can still fill out your census form right now. Head to my2020census.gov and fill out your census form, fill out your census form, fill out your census form, fill out your census form, fill out your census form, at my2020census.gov. The Brian Lehrer Show is produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna and Zoe Azulay with Zach Cohen and Joseph Gedeon. A big shout out this week to our census maven, Amina Srna, who produced as well as reported in the segments we re-aired today. We have to say goodbye to our summer interns. Max Bolton, Anderson Calderone, and Ben Rubin, who have each contributed mightily to the show these last few months. Megan Ryan is the head of Live Radio, and at the audio controls making it all sound effortless are Juliana Fonda, Liora Noam Kravitz, Matt Marando and Jason Isaac. Depending on what day and time it is, have a great weekend everybody. We're back live on Monday.

 

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