Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We want to take a close look now at a major speech that Kamala Harris gave in Pittsburgh on Wednesday that she hopes will be a turning point in her campaign. We were going to talk about the speech yesterday, but the indictment of Mayor Eric Adams kind of overwhelmed everything else, but we're coming back to it today. We don't want to fall into the trap that the news cycle on a daily show is only things that happened in the last 24 hours.

We'll play what I think are some key clips from the speech, invite your reactions, and get analysis from Washington Post economics columnist Heather Long. Here's the context. As we discussed a couple of days ago, Harris, since she got the nomination, has already succeeded in energizing the democratic base to donate, volunteer, and probably show up to vote. We all know that, but the race is tight and the voters most being identified as undecided tend to cite the cost of living as their top concern, tend not to be enthusiastic about either Trump or Harris, but tend to think that Donald Trump is the better candidate to help with inflation.

However, Trump's lead on the economy has been shrinking in recent polls, and as The Washington Post puts it, Harris's speech sought to further erode Trump's advantage on economic issues. Let's start with a few clips. First, we know Trump is out there calling Harris a Marxist and a communist. That may be ridiculous on its face if you know what actual communism and Marxism are, but in American politics, and not just with Trump, if you think government has any kind of role to play in helping poor people or the middle class, someone on the right is going to say, you belong in the Soviet Union.

One of the first things that Harris did on Wednesday was to try to plant her flag by using the C word.

Kamala Harris: Look, I am a capitalist. I believe in free and fair markets. I believe in consistent and transparent rules of the road to create a stable business environment. I know the power of American innovation. I've been working with entrepreneurs and business owners my whole career.

Brian Lehrer: Vice President Harris from Wednesday speech, but then came the substantive meat. People are worried about the cost of living. Here's how she began her pitch that she's for a kind of middle-class capitalism. That's what our guest is going to call it, middle-class capitalism that creates opportunity.

Kamala Harris: Let's start then with the first pillar of an opportunity economy, which is lowering costs. I made that our top priority for obvious reasons because if we want the middle class to be the growth engine of our economy, we need to restore basic economic security for middle-class families. To that end, the most practical thing we can do right now is to cut taxes for middle-class families and individuals. That's what we will do. Under my plan, more than 100 million Americans will get a middle-class tax break that includes $6,000 for new parents during the first year of their child's lives to help families cover everything from car seats to cribs.

We'll also cut the cost of childcare and elder care. Finally give all working people access to paid leave, which will help everyone caring for children, caring for aging parents, and that sandwich generation, which is caring for both.

Brian Lehrer: Kamala Harris on inflation and the cost of living and the care economy. Then she went on to that huge driver of inflation in our lives, housing, whether you own or whether you rent.

Kamala Harris: Now, middle-class tax cuts are just the start of my plan. We will also go after the biggest drivers of cost for the middle class and work to bring them down. One of those, some would argue one of the biggest, is the cost of housing. Here's what we will do. We will cut the red tape that stops homes from being built and take on, in addition, corporate landlords who are hiking rental prices. We will work with builders and developers to construct 3 million new homes and rentals for the middle class because increasing the housing supply will help drive down the cost of housing.

We will also help first-time homebuyers just get their foot in the door with the $25,000 down payment assistance.

Brian Lehrer: There are some key excerpts to my ear, kind of overlooked in a lot of news coverage yesterday because of the mayor of New York getting indicted, but key excerpts worth discussing of Kamala Harris from Wednesday's economy speech in Pittsburgh. We'll play a couple more clips as we go, but let's bring on our guest, Heather Long, opinion columnist and former us economics columnist for The Washington Post. Her column this week was called, "Kamala Harris wants to try something new, middle-class Capitalism." Heather, thanks for coming on for this. Welcome back to WNYC.

Heather Long: Thank you. Good to be here.

Brian Lehrer: We'll get to the specifics in those clips, but to set this all up, middle-class capitalism is your phrase, not Harris's. Why did you center that term in your article?

Heather Long: Yes, it's a good question. She obviously uses opportunity economy, which has a nice ring to it, but I think in some of the polling, people were still struggling a little bit to figure out what is her broader philosophy. Is she the liberal or the progressive that the Trump campaign keeps portraying her as or is she more the pragmatic centrist that big business people like Mark Cuban keep painting her as? Where does she fall on this spectrum? To me, she's hard to pin down because she's trying to do something totally new.

She's saying, look, I'm a capitalist. I'm for most of what we've been for in America for years. However, she thinks that there's key ways that the government needs to be more involved in correcting where capitalism is clearly making mistakes. One of those areas is the clip you just played about housing. Clearly, supply and demand should be able to fix this housing problem. We should be building more in order to clear this back, this shortage we have, and we're not doing that. She's talking about ways to intervene to incentivize that market to be fixed.

Then the other thing she talks a lot about is what you pointed out earlier in the show. Obviously, we've left a lot of people behind in this economy. There are not enough opportunities, there are not enough pathways to the middle class. I was thrilled to see her mention a huge expansion of apprenticeships. Just trying to think beyond just go to college. That's the key. For me, you wrap all that together, and that's where I was thinking, middle-class capitalism is perhaps a better way to think about it. She certainly said the words middle class, middle class many, many times in that speech.

Brian Lehrer: Now, some guy in Nevada is not wondering, who's a neoliberal? What's a Marxist? Oh, she calls herself a capitalist. Yes, I don't know. Maybe. I like that. He's wondering who's going to tame inflation more. Harris had this laundry list of proposals targeted at the middle class, and the first one we excerpted from her speech was framed as middle-class tax cuts. It really zeroed in on that big cost of living anxiety, the care economy for kids and aging parents. Trump also supports an expanded child tax credit, we should say.

I think what Harris is trying to do is go broader than what you might call a JD Vance bribe to have more kids because he hates childless cat ladies, and put in more descriptive human terms like, "I know what your families are facing," a proposal like she made there, or tell me how you heard that stretch.

Heather Long: Yes, I think you're exactly right. It's trying to draw a contrast between the campaigns. Trump talks about wanting to continue his tax cuts from 2017. Those did give most Americans tax cuts, but the biggest tax cuts were for the wealthy, the richest Americans in the country, and also for corporations. Kamala Harris, as you're pointing out, really stressed that she would give, she kept using the figure, 100 million Americans, the tax cuts, and those Americans are middle-class and working-class Americans.

She would raise taxes on the top and on corporations in order to pay for some of these programs that she would like to do to give more opportunities to middle-class Americans. I think she's really trying to draw that contrast, and she did a pretty good job of that in the speech.

Brian Lehrer: 212433 WNYC. If you want to get in on this, listeners, we welcome your questions or reactions through the speech or the topic in general of candidates' plans for the cost of living. 212433 WNYC, 212-433-9692. Call or text. Heather, the next clip we played was about housing. To me, this is a huge opportunity for Harris if she can make people aware of it because housing is cost of living stressor number one in so much of the country. On this one, I think it's fair to say Trump has no plan but correct me if I'm wrong.

Heather Long: Yes, that's correct. I mean, Trump talks about wanting to lower mortgage rates, but presidents don't have influence over mortgage rates in this country. He also talks about wanting to cut regulation, but he doesn't say what. I'm just going to lower the barriers, as I'm sure many of your listeners know because you've been talking about it for years. A lot of those regulations are at the local level. Again, the federal government can't do much. I think you're right. Kamala Harris's plan on housing is resonating with people.

You can see it in focus groups. It's one of the key policies that people remember that they talk about, that they tell pollsters and focus groups, and it's really a three-part plan. She talks about wanting to give that first-time home buyer tax credit of $25,000 to help with the down payment. Then she talks about wanting to build 3 million homes. Really trying to put a big target out there. The last thing she does, which is probably the most important and the most cheered among housing experts, is she wants to give more federal dollars. Two local communities that actually do change their zoning codes. She has a plan to say, "Look, we can do this. I'm going to sweeten the deal for you if you do the right thing, local communities."

Brian Lehrer: Right. That goes to developers first. The $25,000 tax credit for first-time home buyers goes to people interested in buying a home. I'm curious how or I think that she has to talk about renters probably more, not just offer the tax credit for first-time homebuyers or talk about zoning, so there will be more apartments, which might increase the supply of rent, therefore bring down the rent. She did a little bit in that clip. She promised to take on corporate landlords who are jacking up rents.

I noticed that she stopped short of citing the specific plan that President Biden had announced, and it kind of got buried because he announced just before dropping out of the race in July, a 5% annual rent increase cap, a kind of national rent control, 5% annual rent increase cap, at least for homes owned by corporate landlords. Is Harris hedging on that or abandoning it? As far as you can tell, is she doing anything more specific for renters?

Heather Long: It's a great question, Brian. I think you're right. This is one of the areas that she's hedging on. Yes, she put out an 82-page document this week on the economy, which certainly puts a lot more flesh on the bones, if you will, on her economic plan. You're right. I think rent is an area where it's still unclear how far she would go, such as the rent cap. I think another area, look, I'm a huge champion of child care and elder care, making those more affordable in America. I think that would really unleash more economic potential.

I have to say, I've been a little disappointed personally that she'll have a great line. We need to bring down childcare and elder care, but there's no specifics on how that would happen or the exact mechanism. I think you're right, you could still point to a lot of places where we're not hearing the details, and it's not clear exactly how far she would go.

Brian Lehrer: Well, I think there were a fair number of details in this speech, and that some of the criticism of she isn't giving us details of her economic plan is unfounded. For example, when it comes to the care economy, childcare, elder care, weren't there specifics in Biden's original build-back better plan, most of which had to get thrown out because they couldn't get enough support in the Senate, Joe Manchin, and all of that. There are ways that they were talking about, I believe, to help with elder care, to help with childcare other than the tax credit. Weren't there?

Heather Long: There were, but it's the same issue we were just talking about with rent. The plan under Biden that was put out and set aside was to cap childcare costs at 7% of income and to provide various government supports to keep childcare centers open and hopefully encourage more. You're right. If you actually look at the 82-page document, those kind of details are not even mentioned, even on a top level there. I think there's still a little bit of hedging going on, but I agree with you. I think overall, she made huge strides this week to really show voters what she stands for in addition to lowering costs.

I know you keep calling this a lowering-cost speech, which it certainly was. I think it's also important that there were two other aspects of the speech. One was really pushing entrepreneurship, pushing tax credits for new business formation. The other one that was really new this week was a huge embrace of industrial policy. Saying that she would offer as much as 100 billion in incentives for US manufacturing and bringing manufacturing, particularly in key critical industries, back to the United States.

Brian Lehrer: That's a big Trump thing, bringing key critical industries back to the United States through tariffs, primarily. That's for another segment on Trump's economic proposals, but the tariffs get praised. The tariffs get criticized. The sweeping nature of his tariffs that would be across the board and not target specific industries where it's actually possible to bring back jobs or create new ones, could wind up just being, in effect, a sales tax hike on so many Americans. There's that, but I think even the whole topic, and I understand and certainly agree with you, and I see that there was this whole industrial policy aspect to that speech.

I think it's much less important because we don't have a jobs crisis in the United States. Unemployment is very low by historical standards. What we have is a cost of living crisis in terms of what people are experiencing and in terms of what swing voters and swing states are experiencing, but tell me if you disagree.

Heather Long: I think you're right a little bit. I will say we continue to get very encouraging news on inflation, and we just got more today. PCE inflation, the Federal Reserve's favorite gauge, is now at 2.2%, which is, that's pretty close to the 2% target.

Brian Lehrer: As some people have pointed out, that's just the rate at which prices are going up further, but there's all the last few years of inflation that's more or less planted itself in the permanent increase in prices and many things and people's wages haven't kept up, so they're still feeling it.

Heather Long: That's right. Wage growth now is about the same as inflation. Since Biden took office, wages have grown a little bit faster on average. That's obviously the average since the pandemic started. We're trending in--

Brian Lehrer: Well, there's an underreported stat, too, and it does contradict what I said. Underreported stat, I guess if wages have actually been growing faster than inflation, then again, it doesn't change people's perceptions necessarily, but it changes the statistical narrative.

Heather Long: It does. You're starting to see that come through in consumer sentiment and polling, frankly, that people are a little bit, you're right, there's still a long way to go, but a little bit more optimistic because they're starting to feel that things are getting better. You're right. Obviously, the number one part of the speech is addressed at lowering costs for the very reasons that you mentioned. I will say I would push back a little bit. I think the industrial policy is interesting mainly because it's about good-paying jobs and right or wrong, whatever you think of manufacturing, those jobs are middle-class jobs.

Those jobs are jobs that are going to pay $30 an hour or more. That's really the kind of jobs you want to be growing, and that can really make a difference on cost of living.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. That's such a big story in America over really the last 50 years, the hollowing out of the middle class to a distressing degree where more people are working in what may have been considered working class, that's an inexact term, but in wages terms, lower-income jobs than the percentage of the population in the past. Bringing back well-paying jobs is a huge deal. Here's a text from a listener goes back to our discussion of her housing proposals. Listener writes, "Why isn't there a tax credit for the cost of rent, meaning not just for the cost of buying a home so renters can save for a home." This listener rights.

I've heard that before, but I don't know that anybody in government has proposed that. Do you?

Heather Long: Yes, it's an interesting idea. I think people always worry that if they're subsidizing rent, the landlord just jack up the rental price, so are you just ultimately giving more money?

Brian Lehrer: Because they know people ultimately have the ability to pay or the willingness to pay, so it would just get baked into more profits.

Heather Long: Yes. I think that's always the fear in doing something like that. That's why you tend to see these incentives for home buying and for down payment assistance and sort of helping that way, but I will say other countries have some really interesting incentives that basically make it tax-free to save, say, $5,000, the first $5,000 a year. We don't really do stuff like that in the United States, beyond saving for retirement or saving in a college plan. There's definitely some ideas. I think the person who texted you is right.

That could be creatively explored to incentivize, not billionaires to save, but incentivize people who are struggling to be able to save a few hundred or a few thousand more dollars a year, and that adds up fast.

Brian Lehrer: Another listener on the housing piece with a little skeptical on the first-time homebuyers tax credit, I think. Mary in the Hudson Valley, you're on WNYC with Heather Long, Washington Post columnist and former us economics correspondent. Hi, Mary.

Mary: Hi. My question is, won't giving people $25,000 for a down payment of house, isn't that just going to raise the housing prices even more? I mean, it's like free money. I would think the real estate would respond.

Brian Lehrer: It's really the same question that you were just raising, Heather, with respect to rents. If I'm selling a home, and I know that the first-time homebuyer out there is going to get $25,000 toward the purchase, I might just raise the price by $25,000.

Heather Long: The answer, Mary's very correct. I mean, the answer is yes. We actually saw a version of this. Some of your listeners may recall right after the great financial crisis when we had too many empty homes and we were trying to encourage people to buy them, the federal government actually gave a first-time homebuyer credit. It wasn't 25,000. It was like 5,000 to 10,000, but that's exactly what happened. A lot of townhomes and smaller homes ended up going not quite the full amount. I think it was about 70%. Instead of going $10,000 higher, they would have gone about $7,000 higher. That's definitely a big problem in this plan.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Although you could look at it another way. I mean, I personally know someone in my family who used that year's credit as a first-time homebuyer to buy a home that they probably couldn't have afforded otherwise. I think we have to center the words first time there because it's entering the home buying market that I think is the biggest challenge right now. If people already own a home and they want to move up to a bigger home or something like that, they've got the equity in their house, their apartment, they have that.

It's the first time homebuyers can't get a foot in the door in the market. Maybe if they're out there competing with the existing homebuyers, then the price of the seller doesn't go up necessarily. It just lets more people into the bidding.

Heather Long: Yes, I kind of agree with both of you. I mean, I think the price will go up a little bit, but you're right that it still helps. Again, the price usually doesn't go up the entire amount of the credit. You're right, there is still some benefit to a lot of people who are on the margins of whether or not they can afford that home or nothing. I'll just reiterate that the reason that economists and housing experts look at her plan, and they say, okay, $25,000 down payment assistance, that's okay, but what really helps is setting that $3 million housing supply goal.

You get more housing in a neighborhood that is going to drive down the prices, and that is going to make the biggest difference.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a critique from Thomas in Red Hook of the first clip we played where Harris, I guess, in response to Trump consistently calling her a Marxist and a communist, said out loud, "I'm a capitalist." Maybe Thomas in Red Hook Brooklyn doesn't like that so much. Thomas, you're on WNYC. Hello?

Thomas: Well, thanks very much. Yes, I was actually the term middle class, which she used several times. I was wondering we're so used to that term in the US, and I wondered if your guests would know, like in Europe, do they even use that term? Because having a middle class, it implies that there's going to be a lower class or an underclass. Reminds me, you had the professor from Princeton, Matthew Desmond, on your show, Brian, who talked about, we have a lot of poverty in America because we allow it.

I'm a Harris supporter. I want her to win, but using that term middle class always sort of strikes me as are we accepting that there are going to be folks under the middle class, otherwise it wouldn't be the middle. That was the main point I wanted to make.

Brian Lehrer: Thomas, thank you very much. Heather, anything on that? She didn't [crosstalk] talk about ending poverty.

Heather Long: No, no, not explicitly. Yes, it's a great point that he makes. Other countries do not use the term middle class as extensively as we do. At the Washington Post, and I know Pew Research has done something similar. I was part of a project where we created a calculator. What is middle class, and people could put in their income and whether they thought they were middle class, and it was people who earned anything from $20,000 to $200,000 would consider themselves middle class. Obviously, it varies a little bit where you live.

New York City is different than Topeka, but he's right that we all-- The vast majority of Americans, think of themselves as middle class, even though on an actual data statistic spectrum, they would not be considered that way.

Brian Lehrer: We're over time, but I did promise one more clip from the speech. It's sort of that third pillar that she laid out of specifics regarding inflation or the cost of living. She keyed on healthcare and grocery store prices.

Kamala Harris: We will work to reduce other big costs for middle-class families. We will take on bad actors who exploit emergencies and drive up grocery prices by enacting the first-ever federal ban on corporate price gouging. I had the experience of dealing with that when I was attorney general. We will take on big pharma and cap the cost of prescription drugs for all Americans, just like we did for our seniors. Now, by contrast, Donald Trump has no intention of lowering costs for the middle class. In fact, his economic agenda would actually raise prices.

Listen, that's not just my opinion. A survey of top economists by The Financial Times and the University of Chicago found that by an overwhelming 70% to 3% margin, my plan would be better for keeping inflation low.

Brian Lehrer: When she talks about Trump raising prices, that refers to the tariffs, but to the idea in that clip, we know one of Trump's worst moments in the debate, seen by 67 million people, was when he admitted he still had no health care plan, even after all these years of saying repeal and replace Obamacare. Replace it with what? I guess the other part of that clip is her most populist economic line and maybe least specific. She'll take on corporate price gouging, on grocery prices. I'm not sure many people will think that's going to bring down the price of produce or a bag of chips at your local supermarket.

For our last 30 seconds, maybe talk about healthcare here as another pillar that she has a plan for, and because Democrats always have these plans and the Trump campaign does not.

Heather Long: Yes, I'm so glad you brought that up. Obviously, Trump's infamous line now that he has concepts of a plan was just quite a moment. You're right, this was hugely popular, so I'm glad you played the clip. This notion of capping prescription drug prices, how much people would pay a year at about $2,000. That's still a high amount, but obviously it's better than this notion that you could potentially be bankrupted or be put in huge dire straits if you suddenly have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a critical drug in this country.

I think she doesn't really talk about it, but obviously, Democrats also have a plan to keep not just the Affordable Care Act going, but also a lot of the really important tax incentives that have helped many people be able to buy health insurance in recent years through those marketplaces. We have record numbers of Americans with health insurance right now, and we don't want to lose that.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, there's our makeup segment on Kamala Harris's economy speech from Wednesday in Pittsburgh, which she hopes will be a turning point in her campaign with the undecided voters in the swing states who generally are not in love with either her or Trump, focusing so much on inflation, the cost of living in the polls, and Trump having the lead on that in poll after poll, though, that lead has been coming down. Harris hopes that speech, and as it gets out, especially, will be a turning point in the campaign.

I say our makeup segment because we might have done that yesterday were it not for the indictment of Eric Adams. There you go. We thank Heather Long, who was originally booked for yesterday. Washington Post columnist who used to be their US economics correspondent. Heather, thank you so, so much.

Heather Long: Hey, thanks, Brian.

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.