Brian: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Last year, nearly 3.7 million 911 calls in New York City were assigned to the NYPD. That averages out to about 14,000 a day. Here are a few things about those calls that stand out. Only about 28% of crime-related calls were actually reported as crimes in progress. More than 0.5 million calls involved harassment, verbal conflicts, or disputes between two or more parties.

This comes from a new analysis by the Vera Institute of Justice, the criminal justice research and policy organization. The Vera Institute looked at what New Yorkers are actually calling 911 about and whether the city's emergency response system, and this is the important part, whether the city's emergency response system is set up to send the right kind of help, and if Mayor Mamdani has something in mind that can improve it.

Our guest is Daniela Gilbert, director of the Redefining Public Safety Initiative at the Vera Institute of Justice. She previously worked in the Mayor's Office of Community Mental Health and at the New York City Police Department itself, and served on the transition team on community safety for Mayor Zohran Mamdani. Daniela, thanks for coming on WNYC today. Hi.

Daniela: Hi, Brian. Thank you so much for having me.

Brian: Listeners, we're going to open up this segment to you as well. First of all, any 911 operators or dispatchers listening who want to talk about what goes into working at that job and help us report this story, call us up. You'll get first priority on the phones if anybody who does work or has worked in the 911 system wants to call and give us your take on if people call 911 for the proper things all the time, whether there's too much stress on the system, whether there could be some other avenue for things so that police response time, and I guess by extension, other emergency services response times, aren't improperly elongated. 212-433-WNYC.

If you work for or ever work for the 911 system or anyone else may call as well, 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. Have you ever called in New York City? What prompted you to do so? What happened when you did? I'll tell one very short anecdote of my own, which probably plays into what Vera is complaining about, honestly, but Daniela, let's start. Your team looked at about 3.7 million 911 calls assigned to the police last year. What does the data reveal about the kinds of situations New Yorkers are reaching for 911 to deal with?

Daniela: Great. Thank you so much, Brian. We're really not trying to complain. We're trying to start a conversation, and I want to start out our conversation by being clear that we all want the same thing. Everyone deserves to feel and to be safe. I care about that. The NYPD cares about that, and for too long, the NYPD has been solely responsible for responding to a wide range of situations.

Some, like crimes in progress, of course, should have a police response. Others, like mental health crises or disputes that don't involve a weapon, may be suited well for a different kind of responder. We did this analysis of 911 call data because this data is really an untapped resource for understanding community safety needs and assessing whether our current approaches are meeting those needs. We know that alternative responses work.

Cities across the country are using these teams, and New York City is doing it, too, on a limited basis. We're excited for this to get the attention that it's getting. This analysis, really, like I said, is a conversation starter. It's not an implementation guide. It's not trying to draw a particular line in the sand. We really recommend that system and community stakeholders alike be involved in planning and developing solutions that deliver public safety for all New Yorkers.

Brian: The data includes 457 different call types that dispatchers use, 457. What does that variety tell us about how broad the role of 911 is?

Daniela: People are calling 911 for a variety of situations. Interestingly, there's this wide range, and at the same time, there's some opportunities to get at the nuance of situations in a way that may better meet people's needs. For example, related to mental health calls, the term "emotionally disturbed person" is commonly used as a broad term for these kinds of situations, but that term misses important nuance that if responders were able to have the information, whether someone was experiencing psychosis, whether someone was having a particular response to substance use, there's actual detail that could help determine the kind of response that a person could get to better meet their needs.

Brian: Some texts coming in already. Listener writes, "I called 311 to report malfunctioning traffic lights. The 311 operator asked me if the condition is dangerous, and if I don't say no, 311 transfers my call to 911." The listener writes, "I've always felt this was unnecessary."

Another listener writes, "Most recent of many examples mentioned to me by a firefighter I know, club owner called three times in the same week to clear patrons from the club because they wanted to close for the night." I think I have one more here. Listener writes, "I have tried calling my local precinct and 311 for various things like a disturbed person or a shop displaying pornography in the window, and they always tell me to call 911." That's some interesting input from those few, huh?

Daniela: Absolutely. That actually mirrors really closely the categories that we identified as having a potential for an alternative response. I already talked about mental health crisis, but there are also a number of calls related to disturbances and conflict resolution, over 0.5 million conflict resolution calls. What that is, is a verbal conflict, a dispute between two or more people. Those situations may be better addressed through mediation or a de-escalation-focused response that can get at the underlying issue and try to resolve it.

With disturbances, there's a little over 400,000 of those calls. Other jurisdictions find that when they send an alternative responder to these situations, they do often involve a person with underlying needs related to health care, whether it's medical, mental, or behavioral. When you have a trained civilian responder who can, in a way that is focused on de-escalation and connecting with that person, help so that they're not repeatedly coming to the attention of the system.

Brian: Charles is calling from Merrick and says he used to be a medic responding to 911 calls, where too often there were no true emergencies. Hi, Charles. You're on WNYC. Tell us your story.

Charles: Oh, hey, Brian. Long-time listener, always like to contribute. A New York City paramedic, 911 paramedic, retired for quite a few years now. I mentioned to the guy who picked up the phone that frequently we'd get to a 911 call location and it wouldn't be a true emergency. As a medic, a health care provider, I always viewed myself as a health care provider and not really much more, try to empathize.

Two particular calls that have always stuck in my mind were somebody called 911 because there was a diamond ring stuck on the finger, and making an assessment, the finger was not in any danger of compromise in any way. Offered to cut the ring off. We carry a little device that will cut a ring off [unintelligible 00:09:14] a digit, a finger, without any injury to the person. It was the daughter put the mom's ring on. The mom refused to know you can't do that.

Brian: Charles, this matters because while you're responding to calls like that, you're not available to respond to calls that are actual medical emergencies, right?

Charles: Certainly, certainly. It would happen sometimes two, three times a day. That person, I can't say insisted, but we're obligated to bring them to an emergency room for that. Again, I always try to empathize, and menstrual cramps can be, I imagine, quite painful, but getting calls from cramps. We're not permitted to give medical advice like have you tried taking a couple of Motrin or take a couple of Motrin. It's not really our role to give medical advice, so that person went to the emergency room.

Brian: Charles, let me just ask you if you think there's a structural solution to too many people calling 911 in the case of your field for medical reasons. In the case of our guest, she's focusing mostly on NYPD. Is there a solution to this other than maybe to talk about it once in a while, or people know what the alternatives are?

Charles: I'm not sure what the solution is. The call receiving operators, they do try to parse what's emergent and what's not [inaudible 00:10:56] in their training. A lot of times, we walk out of the ER after dropping someone off, scratching our heads, saying, "There's a cardiac arrest up the road here, and we're taking somebody with--

Brian: A ring on the finger. Charles, thank you very much. We appreciate your call on this.

Daniela: Brian?

Brian: Back to Daniela from Vera. Yes?

Daniela: Thank you. There were two things that Charles brought up that I wanted to note that came up in the conversation. Our report is titled "What 911 Data Says About Community Needs in New York City." We did analyze the NYPD's 911 call data, but we're really focused more broadly on looking at this administrative data to understand what's coming to the attention of the system in terms of people's safety needs and trying to develop solutions that better meet folks' needs and better use the limited resource that is NYPD's time.

On the topic of time, earlier, before we began speaking, you brought up the matter of response time. Of course, it's really important to have an urgent response to an emergency. We should always be looking at whether that is happening and how it could be improved when it's necessary. There are also other important measures to consider when we're thinking about the success or the efficacy of a 911 system, and I think that came up with Charles's comments.

Are we sending the right responder for a given situation? Is it a use of our resources, whether it's FDNY, EMS, or NYPD? Was the person connected to the services that they needed? Was enforcement action taken? There are important questions that we actually have the answers to, and it's time to begin developing solutions with that information.

Brian: I'm going to get to where you think Mamdani's proposed Department of Community Safety comes in in just a second. Staying for one more moment on advice to individuals. My own anecdote, and this is years ago in a different building, in a different neighborhood, and I say that not to inadvertently alarm anybody where I live now, in case anybody happens to be listening, because it's not relevant to any of my actual neighbors.

Years ago, another building, another neighborhood, my wife and I thought we might have heard an incident of domestic violence in progress across the wall, and we debated with each other for a few minutes. Should we call 911? We hate to get the police involved if not really necessary for any family. On the other hand, we really thought it might have been. We did call 911. We never heard anything about it, either from the NYPD or from the family, but that was a close call for us. How do people [inaudible 00:14:11] calls?

Daniela: I'm sorry, your question cut out for a moment.

Brian: How can people navigate, decide for themselves in close call situations?

Daniela: Ah, thank you. I think in situations where someone is concerned about an immediate risk to public safety, of course, it's really important to call 911. I think the shift that we need to make is an individual New Yorker shouldn't have to know three different numbers and navigate in a high-risk situation or a stressful situation, which number to call. Ideally, we have a range of options available when someone calls 911 beyond the current ones.

There's also an opportunity to strengthen call-taker training and dispatcher training, and potentially reviewing policies to assess whether there might be ways to address certain calls without sending a response. I know that that's currently a practice, but I think the ability to show that the system is responding to people's needs and create more options is a really important aspect to people actually engaging with and using the system. It's possible that in the situation that you and your wife were experiencing, if you knew there was a non-police responder available to respond to conflicts where there isn't clearly a weapon, then you might have called sooner.

Brian: Maybe so. In your op-ed in the Daily News in January, making the case for stronger collaboration between city agencies in the context of public safety, you wrote, "I have spent 17 years helping cities and their police departments, including the NYPD, build and sustain effective safety solutions. As Mamdani's administration builds the Department of Community Safety, I see three key actions that will help it thrive alongside existing services, most notably the NYPD." What are those three key actions?

Daniela: One is collaboration with system actors. I think I said this earlier on in the conversation, the best way to develop new solutions is to include the people who are most affected by them, who have a stake in them. That's the frontline responders, it's the managers who manage those responders, it's community members who rely on public services. It's important to recognize, like I shared before, NYPD has been responding to millions of situations that take them away from what they do best: fighting crime and addressing violent situations, solving crimes.

It's important to take an inclusive and collaborative approach to planning what the Department of Community Safety will look like. It's also really important, like our analysis tries to do, to use the data resources that New York City has. There's an incredible amount of information that is already available, but typically, agencies can't talk to each other, can't share the information amongst themselves. One really important role that the Department of Community Safety will play is figuring out how to strengthen coordination so that we're using resources efficiently and in a way that is increasing access and care.

Brian: Zeke in Plymouth, New Hampshire, is calling in on this. Zeke, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Zeke: Hi, Brian. Greetings from beautiful Plymouth, New Hampshire. I'll try to be concise. What I think is kind of missing from this conversation is-- Let's see how to put this. I guess to respond to what your guest was just saying [inaudible 00:18:09]-

Brian: Whoops. Your line just dropped out.

Zeke: -agencies and-- Oh.

Brian: Try it again, Zeke.

Zeke: Do you have me now, Brian?

Brian: Yes, we have you. Try one more time.

Zeke: Okay. I think, sure, it'd be great if the police cooperated with other agencies, but the whole historical cause of this situation, where 911 is the only number anybody knows for the most part, is that the police don't want to cooperate. They want the most of the city budget they can get. This is true of any big city. The police intentionally have taken over all these services that could be done by other people who cost less and don't carry weapons, but they don't want that. They want road flagging. They want to respond to mental health stress calls. They want to respond to everything because they get paid the money. It's budget. I think that's what's missing from this conversation. This isn't accidental.

Brian: Interesting. Zeke, an accusation there. In your 17 years helping cities and their police departments in your career, Daniela, do you see evidence of that?

Daniela: What I'll say is in cities that have really taken seriously the opportunity to create alternative responses, cities that have stood up these community safety departments, Albuquerque, New Mexico, and Durham, North Carolina, are two of the cities that we work with who have done that. Police appreciate the addition of this resource. Certainly, change is hard. Adjusting people's roles is difficult. It challenges the status quo, certainly. But when there's a commitment and a concerted effort to take a different approach, police become among the champions of these kinds of programs.

Brian: Let me get one more call in here. Luca in Manhattan, who I think is an EMT. Luca, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Luca: Hey, Brian. I wanted to comment further on what the last caller was a medic said about how to give alternatives to EMS. We're one of the only major EMS systems in the country that lacks a robust system for triaging outcalls. We send an ambulance to basically everything. It could be a week-old foot pain that we get while someone else is not getting an ambulance.

Wake County in North Carolina, for instance, has a system where certain calls are triaged out to a nurse practitioner who then decides whether they get an ambulance or not. Maybe they send a lift to take the person to urgent care. We do have a system similar to that, but it's severely understaffed. Frequently, we'll see jobs where the person tried to speak to a telemedicine practitioner, and they didn't pick up, or the moment the caller says they want an ambulance, we have to send one.

Frequently, people have already called 911, they're going to ask for the ambulance, and we're stretched extremely thin. People are not getting ambulances. There's other systems where they send cab vouchers for people, connect them with home health resources, send a visiting nurse, whatever the case is. It's shocking to me that we're the only system that doesn't really do this. I think we did 1.8 million calls last year.

Brian: Thank you for your insight on that. Interesting that he compares New York City unfavorably to other cities. Do you have any better models, Daniela?

Daniela: Yes. Over half of the biggest cities in the country have alternative responses, and there's a lot of places that respond to calls beyond the mental health calls like I had mentioned. I think the opportunity here is to look both at New York City's data and also to the strong practices and results from other jurisdictions to help bring our system really up to the standards that the caller mentioned.

Just in terms of the range of types of responses, types of calls that these alternative responders take in other cities, mental health, welfare checks, unwanted person, general assistance, substance use, suicide threat, domestic dispute, traffic. The opportunity here is really to, again, use the limited resources that we have to meet New Yorkers' needs in a way that is more efficient and also really supports and honors the difficult work that first responders do.

Brian: Of course, in addition to the delayed response time that results from this, certainly what a lot of the press has been focused on in recent years and part of Mayor Mamdani's concern is the examples of how police responses to mental health emergency situations can go tragically wrong, like in January when NYPD officers shot a Queens man, Jabez Chakraborty, four times after his family called 911 while he was experiencing a psychotic break. He remains hospitalized.

There are those who say in some, and of course, the hard part is finding where the line is, where you don't need an armed response to a mental health crisis, because sometimes you do, but that's, of course, another aspect of this. Last question. Do you see Mayor Mamdani, and I realize his administration is still so new, starting to implement the kinds of things that would solve these problems of excessive 911 calling for any of the emergency services? We've heard from somebody about the fire department, we heard from that paramedic, we heard about the NYPD.

Daniela: I think the announcement of bringing on board a deputy mayor for community safety is an exciting step, because in these situations where you're standing up a new entity, where you're trying to create more coordination across government silos, it's really important to have a balance of subject matter knowledge and the input of community, as well as political will and an imperative from the city's executive to make these changes. That's one thing that I'm excited about.

I think the recognition that the city's current alternative response be heard needs to be expanded is also exciting. Going back to what some of the callers have shared, call triage limitations and narrow eligibility criteria right now have meant that a lot of calls eligible for the alternative response that exists are still getting a police response. I think when we talk about expanding the existing services, of course, going upstream to address the 911 call policies that might be outdated and need to be revisited, as well as further downstream and investing in more community-based services so that responders, whether they're traditional first responders or alternative first responders, have places to take people that can meet their needs.

Brian: Daniela Gilbert, director of the Redefining Public Safety Initiative at the Vera Institute of Justice. Thank you so much for joining us.

Daniela: Thank you for having me.

Copyright © 2026 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.