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Matt Katz: It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. I'm Matt Katz from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian while he's out on vacation this week. Coming up on today's show, as we do every Wednesday, we'll talk to my colleague Liz Kim, who keeps tabs on Mayor Adams. There was a lot of talk at yesterday's press conference with the mayor about using drones to warn New Yorkers about dangerous flooding. We'll see how thats going as Tropical Storm Debbie heads into the area.

Plus, Republicans in the Nassau County legislature on Long Island have passed a ban on masks in public. They say it's to prevent antisemitic incidents, while progressives say it's stoking a culture war and that protesters supporting Palestinians will be targeted. Our reporter Charles Lane will be here to talk about that and the raucous debate earlier this week when the ban was passed. Nassau County listeners will definitely want to hear from you on this. That's coming up in about an hour.

We'll wrap up today's show with the 10th conversation in our centennial series, 100 Years of 100 Things, which is about the history of ice cream. I bought Klondike bars the other day, by the way, on a whim and I was really disappointed. Did not taste good, not as I remembered. Going to go back to Fish Food and Cherry Garcia from Ben & Jerry's next time I'm out. In any case, onto more important things. Kamala Harris introduced her choice for VP, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and she really had to introduce him.

So many Americans hadn't heard of him, or at least they hadn't until he began popping up on the Veep shortlists and cable TV a couple weeks ago. Who is Tim Walz? The campaign is presenting him as a folksy dad and former high school teacher and football coach with a solid liberal record as governor of Minnesota. My next guest will tell us more about him as a person and about his policies and why the Harris campaign chose him. Ernesto Londoño is the New York Times Midwest correspondent based in Minnesota. Hi there, Ernesto. Welcome back to WNYC.

Ernesto Londoño: Hello. Thanks for having me.

Matt Katz: I'm excited to start talking about this Veep choice. A reason behind Kamala Harris's decision to choose Tim Walz as a running mate is perceived to have stemmed from Governor Walz's rural upbringing. Let's start there with the beginning of his life. Where did he grow up and what was his family situation like?

Ernesto Londoño: He was born in a tiny town in Nebraska and spent his formative years as a child and a teenager in those communities in red-country America. He has said I think jokingly, that his graduating class included 25 students, 12 of whom were cousins. That gives you a sense of where he grew up. He's talked a lot about working on the family farm during summers.

Then in the '90s, he meets a fellow teacher, Gwen, and they get married, and they move to Minnesota where Gwen is from. You have a picture of somebody who, before he gets the idea of running for office when he was about to 40, spent much of his life and working-class backgrounds among working-class people in largely rural and small-town America.

Matt Katz: Also, while teaching, he serves in the military, right? Or is that the beginning of his career? That's something to do with how he had the funds to be able to go to college.

Ernesto Londoño: He actually joined the National Guard as an enlisted soldier when he was 17, quite early. He did so following in the footsteps of his father, who also was a veteran.

Matt Katz: What did he do in the military? Did he go abroad? What was his role there?

Ernesto Londoño: He deployed once in support of the Afghan war, but he served in Europe, and he was an artilleryman training soldiers in Nebraska initially, and then later moved to the National Guard in Minnesota.

Matt Katz: He suffered hearing loss or hearing damage while in the military. Is that right?

Ernesto Londoño: That's right. Apparently, he had surgery at some point and was able to recover his hearing, which was an issue he's talked a lot about in the context of access to healthcare and how transformative having access to healthcare can be for people who are raised in communities where they struggled to get by. He's described scenes of sitting in the family kitchen, not quite knowing whether they were going to be able to pay the bills. He's drawn a lot of attention to periods of his life when things were shaky from a financial standpoint.

Matt Katz: There's this story from Walz's early life that circulated a bit. September 1995, he's pulled over for speeding. He's charged with a DUI. I understand that this somewhat changed the course of his life. He decides to stop drinking entirely. Do you know anything more about that incident and do you see this from a political context as being a consequential attack? Is this going to be something that dogs him in the coming months?

Ernesto Londoño: This is an incident from decades ago that has surfaced each time he's run for office. There's been sort of a desire from opponents to draw attention to moments of his life that are less flattering, but it does seem that it was kind of a wake up call for him. According to reports from that era, Tim Walz disclosed this incident to his principal at the school where he worked at the time and went as far as offering to resign, although that offer was not accepted. We do know that he stopped drinking alcohol and that seems to have been a formative moment of his life, a turning point, so to speak.

Matt Katz: Listeners, it's been about 25 hours since we learned that Tim Walz won the Veep stakes. Now that we've seen Harris and Walz on the campaign trail, and we're going to be talking about that, it was last night in Philadelphia. Now that we've seen Republicans launching their attacks on Walz's left-leaning record, what are your early impressions of the new democratic vice presidential candidate? If you're undecided, has Walz joining the ticket helped to solidify your vote in one direction or another? Double haters, have you chosen a side now that we know exactly who will be on the ballot?

We can also take your questions for our guest, New York Times Midwest correspondent Ernesto Londoño about Tim Walz and his record. Give us a call, 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. You can also text us at that line as well. Ernesto, Kamala Harris spent some time at this rally that I mentioned last night in Philadelphia, where she officially revealed her running mate. She spent a good amount of time talking about Walz's role as a high school teacher. You actually have spoken to some of his students. What was Mr. Walz like in the classroom?

Ernesto Londoño: By all accounts, he was a hugely popular teacher. He taught geography. Even when he worked in very small towns where people didn't have much exposure to the rest of the world, he was really interested in teaching them about painful lessons from history, about the genocide, about defining moments in human history where people went after each other with really brutal effects.

He was a football coach, and that was I think a key element to his work and something he was very passionate about. Interestingly, when he was working in Mankato in Southern Minnesota in the 1990s, there was an incident where one of the students there came out of the closet, and this was a first for the school. He was subjected to some abuse and bullying. Gwen, his wife, and Tim Walz really step up and become leaders on this issue and help support the first gay straight alliance at the school back in that era.

What's been described to me from former students was that they sent a very strong message that no such bullying and bigotry would be tolerated, directed at the student. The fact that he had the street cred of being the football coach really set the tone for what would and would not be permissible in that moment.

Matt Katz: We have some tape from Kamala Harris talking about this and tell us what year this happened. This was in the '90s when he created the gay straight alliance.

Ernesto Londoño: Yes.

Matt Katz: Let's hear Kamala Harris last night in Philadelphia.

Kamala Harris: Coach Walz was approached by a student in his social studies class. The young man was one of the first openly gay students at the school and was hoping to start a gay straight alliance. At a time when acceptance was difficult to find for LGBTQ students, Tim knew the signal that it would send to have a football coach get involved, so he signed up to be the group's faculty advisor.

Matt Katz: It's interesting to me this little anecdote. What's the political purpose here of sharing this little story? Is it intended to attract a specific kind of voter whom this might resonate with?

Ernesto Londoño: I think so. I think in Tim Walz, the Harris campaign likely sees somebody who, early in his career, had significant appeal with independent or conservative leaning voters that the Harris campaign desperately wants to bring to their side in battleground states. They're also making a point that throughout his political career, he oftentimes has been ahead of the curve of where the mainstream of the democratic party was on some of these social issues. When you look ahead at the year when Tim Walz made an uphill run for Congress, he was running for a seat that had been held by a Republican for many years.

Matt Katz: This is his first time running for any kind of office, right?

Ernesto Londoño: That's correct. We're talking about 2006. As he's campaigning and a bunch of students and parents of former students have become his big allies and champions and donors. The mother of this student who came out of the closet back in the '90s, tells Tim Walz, "Hey, maybe it wouldn't make sense for you to run as a very pro-gay rights candidate considering the district you're in.

What the student told me when I interviewed him was that Tim Walz turned around and said, "I'd rather lose the race than not be able to look at my gay students in the eye and say that I was true to my values." In 2006, when the country was divided on the issue of same-sex marriage, and what kind of loss would be in place to restrict marriage, Tim Walz took what was at the time a really bold and arguably risky stance. He not only came out against a bill that would have codified marriage as a union solely between a man and a woman, but he actually came out in favor of same sex marriage, which at the time in 2006, was not where the mainstream of the party was.

Matt Katz: Sure. This was a red district. Did he beat an incumbent Republican? Was it an open seat that had been held by a Republican?

Ernesto Londoño: Yes, he beat a longtime incumbent. If you will recall, in 2006, the country was really polarized over the Iraq war, and Democrats made big gains in the House during that midterm election. There had been an effort underway, especially to recruit Democrats who were veterans and could run on their military record in order to win the seats that Tim Walz flipped. He was one of a wave of Democrats who managed to flip the house and change the course of the debate over the Iraq war.

Matt Katz: We have some callers, and it looks like we have some people who are pleased with this pick. Let's go to Deborah in Jersey City. Hi, Deborah. Thanks for calling into the Brian Lehrer show.

Deborah: Thank you for taking my call. Tim wasn't my first pick. I was talking with a friend about two weeks ago when we heard his name. I started looking him up but I had preferred Andy Bashir only because he was a lot younger. However, after she picked him, I did some more research. After listening to her yesterday and his speech, this is the right pick. We don't need someone perfect. We need someone that's just going to try to represent everyone.

I'm a baby boomer. I'm in my late 60s. As much as I'd like term limits, especially age for people running for office, we don't have it. They're going to try to represent everyone, no matter your color, your sex, your orientation. They want to work for everyone because I'm really scared to the kind of life I would have if the other guy gets in. I'm very confident that anything can happen anytime, anywhere, anyplace and if something would happen to her if she's elected president, I'm confident that he could step in and do the job. I'm not confident on the other guy.

Matt Katz: On the other guy, meaning the Republican Party?

Deborah: Yes. I try not to use their name. She's biracial. I was very offended by Trump in his remarks at the NABJ. How dare he? This is just outright racist prejudice. This sounds like stuff in the '50s, '60s. We don't need that. We don't need to go back to what they thought is an idolized America which is nothing but a fantasy. She could have chose Godzilla and I would still have voted for Kamala.

Matt Katz: Thank you very much, Deborah. Thank you for calling. I appreciate it. Looks like we also have a text coming in from a listener who says, "Everyone on my twitter feed has been very excited about Walz except for the actual leftists from Minnesota who are recounting how he had them tear-gassed and sprayed with toxic wastewater during protests of 2020 and how he backed the line three pipeline. I am not familiar with either of those issues. Ernesto, any particular issues of concerns from the left of the Democratic Party?

Ernesto Londoño: I think part of the baggage he brings to this ticket is the post-George Floyd era, which was very tumultuous and violent and left scars that remain visible in the city. I think there's going to be an effort by both people on the right and people on the far left to take aim at what Tim Walz said and did during those really, really challenging days. As protests began and as they started getting violent and as we started seeing looting, there was a moment where the mayor of Minneapolis pleaded for help from the state and asked the governor to send in the National Guard.

That's a request the governor did not immediately feel comfortable heeding. It took some time for the guard to actually get deployed. We're seeing an effort to relitigate that era and go back and deconstruct the leadership and the decision-making on that. However, I think more broadly, during his time as governor, in recent years, when Democrats have been in control not just at the governor's mansion, but the legislature, Tim Walz has led an extraordinarily productive era of lawmaking.

He's passed a lot of liberal priorities that had been stuck in gridlock in earlier years. I think across the board, he's fairly popular with the liberal base of the party here in Minnesota. It's actually the more conservative and moderate people that brought him to office and kept him in office during his years as a congressman that I think have begun souring on him and seeing him as somebody who, once he won statewide office pivoted away from his more moderate approach to politics, to becoming an unabashed liberal. There's an effort right now to portray him as having become quite radical and being actually more to the left of where the mainstream of the party is.

Matt Katz: That's been the perception since he was picked over let's say, Josh Shapiro, who was seen as the more centrist take. We have a listener who texted as a so-called double hater. This VP pick was a move to the left and not to the center, not happy. I imagine part of the reason why he's construed as being more liberal is he was successful in getting left-leaning policies through because he had a totally democratic legislature while he's been governor. Is that right?

Ernesto Londoño: That's right. When he's been questioned about whether Democrats went too far in the policies they passed, which include things like driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants, Tim Walz has essentially said, "My philosophy is that when you have political capital, you spend it." He's made a case that Democrats on his watch passed laws that were broadly popular and that were consistent with what they campaigned on. He's made no apologies and made no efforts to backpedal parts of his legacy as governor, which has been considerable.

Matt Katz: Tell me about his time in the House of Representatives. He wins his first race, red district 2006. NRA supports him. What was his time in the House like? Any notable moments from that experience? Any legislation that he might have championed?

Ernesto Londoño: At the time, he's regarded as being one of the most bipartisan lawmakers on the Hill. Again, this is a period of considerable polarization over the Bush year era and especially the Iraq war. Tim Walz becomes an influential voice on agricultural issues, as many members of Congress from this part of the country are, and especially on veterans issues. As somebody who was the product of the GI Bill, which helped him go to college, he championed expanding that benefit and making sure that veterans who served in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan got generous stipends to be able to go through college and get a degree in an education.

Interestingly also, he becomes a very loud advocate for repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, which was the military policy that barred openly gay service members from serving in uniform. Tim Walz was not really regarded as a hugely influential lawmaker during his time in Congress. He's described as more of a workhorse than a showhorse. He's not somebody who at the time really captured the national spotlight

Matt Katz: Let's go to the phone lines. Bob in Westchester. Hi, Bob. Thanks for calling in.

Bob: My older son worked on Congressman Walz's congressional staff as his first job after coming back from Afghanistan. He loved him and thought he was great down to earth. They were very bipartisan. When he worked through the Veterans Affairs Committee, he did veterans issues. My story is just before, in 2018 I guess my son got called in and [unintelligible 00:21:17] said, "Oh, I'm switching you from my staff to the Veterans Affairs committee staff." Not particularly a promotion or raise. It's a lateral move. Three weeks later, he announced he wasn't running for reelection. To me, that's what a top sergeant does. He takes care of his people. He made sure he had a job even though the congressman wasn't going to be running for reelection there. The staff really loved working for him.

Matt Katz: Thank you, Bob. That's a very insightful little anecdote. Really appreciate it. We're going to get back to talking a little bit more about the new vice presidential nominee. We're going to take a break though first. This is the Brian Lehrer show. I'm Matt Katz filling in for Brian Lehrer today. We're talking about Kamala Harris's VP pick, Tim Walz. My guest is the New York Times Midwest correspondent Ernesto Londoño. We'll be back in a moment.

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This is the Brian Lehrer show. I'm Matt Katz filling in for Brian today. We're talking about Vice President Kamala Harris's VP pick, Tim Walz. My guest is the New York Times Midwest correspondent Ernesto Londoño. Ernesto, the governor is in Congress at the time. 2006 he's elected. He has an A rating from the NRA. He's served several terms and the A rating from the NRA turns into an F. Walz is marked. Walz shoots guns. He's a hunter. It's something he talks about. What happened?

Ernesto Londoño: I think he had an evolution on that issue, especially after the [unintelligible 00:22:59] shooting in Florida. He comes around to the idea that he can both be a supporter of the Second Amendment and somebody who is a gun owner and enjoys hunting, but also support what he describes as common sense gun control measures. When he had a chance to pass laws that were difficult to pass through a divided state legislature before, he succeeded in getting expanded background checks in Minnesota in 2023 and also creating a policy or a law that allows law enforcement officials to take away the weapons that people deemed to be a threat to themselves or others.

These are called red flag laws. In more recent years, while he's been in statewide office, he has shifted to the left on this issue. He has taken the view that gun restrictions should be tighter. He himself, I think feels that he can be an effective champion of tighter gun control laws because he continues to be a gun owner and he hails from a part of the world where many people own guns and value their right to do so.

Matt Katz: He leaves Congress, decides to run for governor. What was the political calculation there? Was that a risky bet?

Ernesto Londoño: If you look at what was happening politically, his last election, which coincided with President Trump's election in 2016, Tim Walz squeaks by in keeping his seat in Congress, but Trump wins his district by 15 percentage points. Tim Walz may have seen the writing on the wall that maybe somebody like him could no longer continue to serve in that district as those parts of the country became more firmly red.

He sees an opening to run for Congress and manages to win in 2018. He campaigns on the slogan of One Minnesota, portraying himself as somebody who could be a unifier, somebody who could get people to work together across party lines. In doing so, he draws a lot of attention to his working-class roots, his time in the classroom, his time as a football coach, and that image and that message is pretty appealing. Not only does he win office the first time, but he wins handedly when he runs for reelection after the whole George Floyd episode in 2022.

Matt Katz: I want to play some more from last night with Kamala Harris, Tim Walz. This is Vice President Kamala Harris talking about her running mate. Through his work.

Kamala Harris: Through his work, Tim, the way I think about it, he really does shine a light on a brighter future that we can build together. In his state, he has been a model chief executive, and with his experience, I'm telling you, Tim Walz will be ready on day one.

Matt Katz: Courtney in Weehawken, you're calling in about Tim Walz. Hi, Courtney. Thanks for calling in.

Courtney: Hi. Thanks for getting me on. I was at the rally in Philly yesterday, and my first choice had been Kelly, and obviously, the Philly hometown choice was Shapiro. Everybody wanted to know what's this Walz guy going to say? The jokes and the hits he made at Trump and Vance were the biggest applause lines but his personal anecdotes like his comments on IVF and him and his wife struggling with their fertility, it drew a sharp contrast between him and the side that disparages childless people and single people.

His teaching experience and his GI Bill experience, it all showed that he really can empathize with regular people, and he knows the things that are important to them. I think he won over a lot of hearts yesterday.

Matt Katz: Wow. Were you going to go to the rally hoping that it was going to be Mark Kelly in the days before? Were you going to go regardless, or did you end up going to check out Walz?

Courtney: I had planned on going when I found out that she was going to be in Philly because I know that that's as close she's going to get to New York, New Jersey because she's not coming here. I had the news on early the morning to see who it was going to be, but I probably would have gone either way, no matter who she picked.

Matt Katz: Thanks so much for calling in, Courtney. I appreciate it. Let's hear one of those zingers from Walz on Trump.

Governor Tim Walz: Donald Trump's not fighting for you or your family. He never sat at that kitchen table like the one I grew up at wondering how we were going to pay the bills. He's at his country club up in Mar a Lago wondering how he can cut taxes for his rich friends.

Matt Katz: Ernesto, those attacks, I'm the regular guy. I was a school teacher. I hunt on the weekends. I've seen tweets with his old truck that he has and then contrasting with Trump as this rich elitist. Does that work? Trump supporters know that Trump lives in Mar a Lago. They like that Trump lives in Mar a Lago in opulence. Does this move the needle at all that kind of attack?

Ernesto Londoño: I think it's clear the Harris campaign is eager to draw a sharp contrast between JD Vance, who got his time in the spotlight after writing a book about the small town America and decaying areas of the country that have been instrumental in the rise of Trump's politics and political appeal. I think the argument they're making is that Tim Walz when you look at his biography and his career, is a more authentic embodiment of what it means to come from a small town and small-town values.

One line he's repeated often as he's been auditioning for the role of vice president is the golden rule of small towns is mind your own damn business. He's essentially saying Republicans are so preoccupied with being in your bedroom and being in your doctor's office. This is a party that is restricting your freedoms while we, the Democrats, have been working really, really hard to expand freedom.

There's I think both an effort to reclaim what it means to stand for freedom and how voters should be looking at that issue, but also to say, "These people on the other side are rivals that claim to be fighting for the working class and the middle class are full of baloney. Kamala Harris and I, are a better and more authentic example of what is possible in America when you work hard and seize opportunities that are available to you."

Matt Katz: Let's hear Governor Walz on that very topic of freedom.

Governor Tim Walz: Some of us are old enough to remember when it was Republicans who were talking about freedom. It turns out now what they meant was the government should be free to invade your doctor's office. In Minnesota, we respect our neighbors and their personal choices that they make. Even if we wouldn't make the same choice for ourselves, there's a golden rule. Mind your own damn business.

Matt Katz: Here's Walz talking about his own family's personal choices.

Governor Tim Walz: When my wife and I decided to have children, we spent years going through infertility treatments. I remember praying every night for a call for good news. The pit in my stomach when the phone rang and the agony when we heard that the treatments hadn't worked. It wasn't by chance that when we welcomed our daughter into the world, we named her Hope.

Matt Katz: Ernesto, you live in Minnesota. We have Fox News already touting headlines like Walzing into socialism. I'm not sure how to say that, but it's meant to be a play on the governor's last name. This vocal support of abortion rights, other progressive policies, how is this going to play out in the coming weeks and months? Are we going to hear a lot more about Walz? Maybe he's a way of going after Harris, whose record, because she was never in a chief executive spot, might be a little thinner. There might not be enough meat for the right to latch onto. Do you imagine we're going to hear a lot about this idea that the vice president picked a socialist to be her running mate?

Ernesto Londoño: I think considering that until a few days ago, I would say the majority of Americans knew nothing or very little about Tim Walz, there's going to be a huge scramble to define him and to put forward a narrative that will take root among the crucial voters that both campaigns need. There's two ways of looking at Tim Walz. If you focus on the earlier stage of his career, I think you see somebody who hails from small-town roots, worked for decades as a teacher, served in the army, and was regarded as a political moderate, somebody who could work across the aisle very effectively.

If you zoom in on the later stage of his political career, his time in the governor's office, you see somebody who's been more liberal and willing to take more political risks in order to pass legislation that is popular among people farther to the left on the democratic wing of the party. I think the Harris campaign feels that there's going to be appeal on both fronts. I think they're hoping that he will at once energize and excite reliable democratic voters and get him to knock on doors and to turn out on election day.

Also, I think they hope that people will take a look at his earlier years in that stage of his life, and we'll see in him somebody who reflects their own life experience, their own values. I think it's early to tell which narrative will be stronger on voters' minds between now and election day. I think there's going to be a spirited race to try to tarnish him from the Republican side and to draw attention to the more kind of admirable and flattering parts of his legacy by the Harris campaign.

Matt Katz: Zach in Patterson, you're on the Brian Lehrer show. Thanks for calling.

Zach: Thanks for having me. I was Minnesotan for a good part of my life. I only moved to Jersey about a year ago. I really have a good idea that Tim Walz is fantastic at reaching out to independents, people who think for themselves and have differing views. Not necessarily just liberals, but people who like a balanced budget. We all like a balanced budget. Most people do, at least. Walz is a champion of that. There's a lot of things that Walz brings to the table that I think is going to play really well into Harris's hand. That's my comment.

Matt Katz: Thank you for calling. We got some on-the-ground experience there. I appreciate it, Zach. It's interesting where Walz came from to just be on the shortlist for VP. As you mentioned Ernesto, he was not a household name in any respect. Then he goes on MSNBC just July 23rd I think it was and he refers to the MAGA crowd as weird. This is a viral moment that many of us have heard over and over again. It seems to catch on. Other Democrats start using it, and he starts to pick up steam as a potential vice presidential nominee.

Why was Walz even on cable in the first place? It's interesting because Josh Shapiro, one of the knocks on him when he was being talked about as the running mate, maybe he's too ambitious. Walz was seen as not as ambitious, but he was also on Morning Joe mixing it up. Do you see Walz as an ambitious man who's gunning for the job in eight years or in some way less ambitious than Josh Shapiro? Less of a threat to the top of the ticket long term?

Ernesto Londoño: I think it's fair to say he was a dark horse candidate in this race to become vice president. When you look at the things he's done in recent years, we've seen no signals that he was trying to find a runway to launch a presidential bid. He hasn't written the kind of political memoir that oftentimes serves as a case for why voters should be thinking of him for that role.

Earlier this year, he took the helm of the Democratic Governors Association, which gave him a leadership role during a time when the party was really scrambling to figure out how to navigate the Biden campaign's turbulence. That's I think a moment where people start looking to him for answers, and he starts speaking, initially, defending Biden and his dismal debate performance.

Then once Harris takes the reins of the campaign, we see Walz going on cable news appearance after cable news appearance and really capture voters' imagination. He was funny. He was self-deprecating at times, and he knew how to land a punch with a smile. One thing he does which other leaders in the Democratic Party star start mimicking is he starts arguing. We have been in this state of fear and paralysis in thinking about what a new Trump administration would look like.

Maybe those concerns are well founded but first and foremost, we should be talking about these guys as weirdos. The word weird, and weirdos really takes hold and becomes I think a really effective attack line against Trump and against JD Vance. Even Kamala Harris starts using that same language. I think very, very quickly, he's somebody who, Vice President Harris and other people who were seeing what was going to be the ticket that was going to give him the best shot at victory in November, signed Tim Walz. Somebody who was a very effective communicator, a very effective campaigner, and somebody who complemented her own experience and background.

Matt Katz: Let's get another punch that Walz through. Last night, referring to Donald Trump.

Governor Tim Walz: Make no mistake, violent crime was up under Donald Trump.

[applause]

That's not even counting the crimes he committed.

[laughter]

Matt Katz: Ernesto, I detected a professional pause there, where the cadence of that zinger was spot on. Is this what we can expect more from Walz? That little cut there, does that exemplify his style?

Ernesto Londoño: Yes. I think we're going to see him play the role of attack dog and go after Trump and JD Vance really going for the jugular. There's also another side of him on the campaign trail, and it's this really joyful and funny persona. He's not somebody who campaigns in angry outbursts all the time, but he pivots between these two roles seamlessly in a way that I think may be effective with voters who have spent the past year in a state of dread.

Matt Katz: Ernesto, are we going to get a vice presidential debate? I would be very curious to see JD Vance v. Tim Walz.

Ernesto Londoño: I don't know that one is scheduled, but Walz made clear that he's relishing the opportunity to debate JD Vance. I think people would tune in with a huge amount of interest, and I anticipate that things would get testy really, really quickly if the two of them share a debate stage.

Matt Katz: I think it would be really revealing. I'm almost more curious to see that debate than the presidential debate. I feel like I have a sense of the top of the ticket. The running mates. Much more of a blank slate for America. I think that would be really revealing. Can you make that happen, Ernesto? Can you make a call?

Ernesto Londoño: Let's see what I can do.

Matt Katz: Thank you very much. This is a great biological sketch of the Democratic vice presidential nominee, presumptive nominee. My guest has been New York Times Midwest correspondent Ernesto Londoño. Ernesto, really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the show.

Ernesto Londoño: Thanks for having me.

 

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