Title: Thursday Morning Politics: Government Shutdown Day 2

[MUSIC]

Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian today. First, we hope everyone observing Yom Kippur has a meaningful day and fast. Also, for you Yankee fans, hey, we got one more game. We're still in it, so let's hope for a good, good game tonight. Coming up on today's show for our election series, 30 Issues in 30 days, it's Issue Number 9, taxes in New Jersey.

High property taxes are a perennial gripe in the Garden State, but the candidates for governor also have different views on the sales tax, the mansion tax, and more. Plus, later in the show, why more millennials and even younger people are dealing with different kinds of cancers. It's still rare to get cancer as a young adult, but the uptick is real. Researchers are looking into how the environment and even our habits have changed through the generations to try to figure out what's causing this.

Speaking of habits, we're going to wrap today's show with a conversation about your morning routines. We are going to have a very special guest, a person who I am pretty sure is a big part of many of your morning routines. Can you guess it? That's right. Our own Michael Hill will share his ultra-early morning routine. We want to hear how you prep yourself for the day. First, it's Day 2 of a federal government shutdown, and there's no sign that the standoff will end anytime soon.

We've started hearing reports about confusion among federal workers and the closure of federal programs and facilities. Some 750,000 federal workers could face furloughs or worse if the Trump administration makes good on plans for mass layoffs. For today's show, we're going to focus on the politics at play here, the recent posture of some key players in this moment, and what that tells us about when and how the shutdown showdown might end. For all of that, I'm joined by POLITICO's Nicholas Wu, a congressional reporter who focuses on the US House of Representatives. Nick, welcome back to WNYC.

Nicholas Wu: Brigid, thanks so much for having me.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, help us report the story. How have you felt the impact of the federal government shutdown? Do you receive any federal subsidies for food or housing, and has anything changed for you yet? How about any veterans out there? What's the message from the VA? Anyone planning to visit a national park or the Statue of Liberty? What are you seeing out there today, and how do you think elected officials are handling this moment?

President Trump is putting out memes, and he and his allies are talking about the shutdown that could lead to longer-term workforce and program cuts. Is this the way to trim the federal government? And the President is facing two New Yorkers, Senior Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, who are each pushing back in their own ways.

How do you think Democrats are handling this moment? The number is 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. You can call or text. Okay, so Nicholas, let's start with how we got here today. I mentioned it's Day 2 of the shutdown, but we've been hearing talk of shutdowns more times than I can count. This is the first government shutdown since 2018, when, of course, Trump was last in office. How did we ultimately reach this current impasse?

Nicholas Wu: Well, we got to remember that the federal government was funded on, in theory, an annual basis by Congress. The way it's supposed to work, the way Schoolhouse Rock! would have taught us, is that every single division of the Appropriations Committee in the House and Senate passes their own bills to fund each agency. Then both sides come together, talk, and figure out a way to fund the government for the entire year.

That didn't happen this year. Democrats are locked out of power in the House and Senate, but there's a narrow enough Republican majority in the Senate that they still need Democratic votes. Fast forward to the end of September, and there was, of course, no agreement to fund the government. Democrats were refusing to vote for what's called a continuing resolution, basically a stopgap measure that Republicans introduced to kick the can down the line for seven weeks.

Democrats are trying to make their case for government funding. Their big policy ask is around healthcare and specifically these Obamacare subsidies for insurance purchased through the exchanges that's set to expire at the end of the year. Republicans have been saying that they're willing to negotiate on this, but don't want to do that in the funding bill. Since Monday, when President Trump met with congressional leaders, there's been no contact between both sides, for the most part. That's what's gotten us to now, Day 2 of the shutdown.

Brigid Bergin: Nick, we're going to go through and unpack some of the days leading up to this in a little bit more detail because there was a lot of back and forth there, but just for context, the last shutdown lasted more than a month, and it fell just before Christmas in 2018. Are you hearing any estimates about how long this current shutdown could last?

Nicholas Wu: I think folks on both sides I've talked to are really hesitant to stick a specific estimate on how many days this will go, but I think the conventional wisdom here in Washington is that this could go on for a while, especially because there's no negotiations of any kind happening between both parties right now. The closest thing to it is there's some very informal talks happening in the Senate over how to extend these Obamacare subsidies, but both parties are really banking on public opinion to swing in their direction, which means they're kind of waiting to see how this plays out over the coming days.

Brigid Bergin: You are located in Washington, DC. A lot of the federal government is based there. Just can you give us a feeling of what's happening on the ground, what's open, what's closed at this point?

Nicholas Wu: Right now, we're waiting to see exactly all the different plans for agencies and who is furloughed, who is deemed an essential worker. Some agencies are putting large proportions of their staff on furlough. The national parks, for example, are also opening. The Smithsonian is still running, but they have cautioned that they could run out of money in the coming weeks.

The big question on everyone's mind around here is what's going to happen with these threatened mass layoffs that the Trump administration has brought up? Yesterday at the White House, Vice President Vance mentioned that that could be in the offing. The budget director, Russ Vought, privately told House Republicans yesterday that those could come in a matter of days. That could have a huge impact around here and beyond.

Brigid Bergin: There's been some coverage of the communication from federal agencies to the public about who is responsible for this current shutdown, and some questions about whether that communication violates the federal Hatch Act. Can you talk a little bit about what these agencies are doing to tell the public that this shutdown is happening?

Nicholas Wu: Yesterday, there were a number of different federal agencies that if you went to their website, take the Housing and Urban Development Department, for example. There was a banner that would pop up on the site that would say, "Basically, the agency is closed because of Democrats. There's this thing called the Hatch Act, which basically prohibits political expression by folks in an official capacity."

In theory, for something like that, when you go to hud.gov, you could say that it's closed, but you couldn't necessarily put a political valencing on it. That's why there's some big ethical questions that have been raised about this. At the same time, leading up to this shutdown and through it, we've seen Trump officials really stretching the bounds of the Hatch Act and what is permissible under that.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, if you're just joining us, I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian today. My guest is POLITICO's Nicholas Wu, a congressional reporter who focuses on the US House of Representatives. We're talking about Day 2 of a government shutdown. We're going to dig into some of the politics of the moment and how some of the key players are taking advantage or using the situation.

I want to bring in a caller. The number, of course, is 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-9692. You can call or text that number. We have a special caller. We have Jasmine Gripper. She is co-head of the New York Working Families Party. Jasmine, welcome to WNYC.

Jasmine Gripper: Hey, Brigid, I'm glad to be here.

Brigid Bergin: We're talking government shutdown. What is the message from the Working Families Party about how Democrats are responding to this moment?

Jasmine Gripper: Yes, we're saying that the Democratic Party needs to continue to hold the line and to fight for healthcare in this moment. The Republicans control every branch of government. They have the power in this. Democrats have influence right now. This is one of the few moments where there's Democratic influence in a major way, and that's getting to the finish line with the budget.

We want the Democratic Party to continue to stay strong. We want Senator Chuck Schumer right here in New York to continue to fight and hold the line and make sure that they deliver, that we can have the Affordable Care Act tax credits, that healthcare premiums can go lower, and that we should not be giving away tax breaks for the ultra-rich and the billionaires. Democrats right now have to hold a line and protect us all.

Brigid Bergin: Jasmine, I think that there were actions that you were talking about that the Working Families Party had planned. Anything you want to mention?

Jasmine Gripper: People are hitting the streets this weekend. There was a mass call last night with over 5,000 people from across the nation. We are planning actions every day. If you text "shutdown" to 30403, we'll direct you, patch you into your congressional member to give them a call. In here, a blue state, it'll tell you to tell your Democratic senator to hold the line and keep standing strong, but look out for actions this weekend in the street. Of course, October 18th, No King Day, we will be hitting the streets again. It's important that we mobilize and show that there's a resistance to this moment.

Brigid Bergin: Jasmine, thanks so much for your call. Nick, I want to give you an opportunity to respond to Jasmine, who at this point is kind of giving us some sense of how people on the left and on the ground are responding to this moment. We are hearing Trump call this "the Schumer Shutdown." Any sense of how the public is beginning to respond to this moment?

Nicholas Wu: A little early to say exactly how this is shaking out the public. There's a number of polls that are out that show that some voters think that this is more of a Republican-caused shutdown, but I think this is where you see both parties really starting to wait a bit and wait to see how the blame game plays out. This is the way shutdown politics go.

In theory, it's very hard to come out of this with a tangible policy win, but as the thinking goes, if either side can demonstrate to the public that their reasons for driving towards a shutdown win out in the end, this is something that Democrats, for example, have been looking for a while for an example of how they can bring the fight to Republicans and how they can show some kind of tangible resistance to President Trump. This is where they're hoping to demonstrate that if not to the center, but certainly to their base.

Brigid Bergin: Nick, I want to go back to some comments that Minority Leader Schumer made just this past weekend. Of course, before we were in the current shutdown stage, he was on Meet the Press, where host Kristen Welker played some comments to him that he made back in March, when we were, of course, talking about a shutdown again. He said at that point there would be no way to stop a shutdown. Here's part of her follow-up question and his answer.

Kristen Welker: Back in March, you told me that you didn't have an off-ramp. What is your off-ramp this time if the government does shutdown? Do you have one?

Chuck Schumer: Yes. Look, God forbid the Republicans shut the government down. The American people will know it's on their back. First, they're in charge. They have the House, they have the Senate, they have the presidency. They know they're in charge. Second, everyone knows that you need a bipartisan negotiation to get this done.

The American people do, but third, there is going to be huge pressure on Republican senators, congressmen, and even Trump to do something about this horrible healthcare crisis. Closing of the rural hospitals, people's premiums going up $4,000 a year, a middle-class family can't afford that. I saw a mother the other day who said, "My daughter has cancer. If these cuts go through, her treatment will end. I'm going to have to watch her suffer." That's happening all over America.

Brigid Bergin: Nick, the answer to Kristen's question was, "Was there an off-ramp?" What do you make of Schumer's response?

Nicholas Wu: It goes to show how much things have changed since March, when Schumer and a number of other Democratic senators voted to advance a Republican-backed funding bill, which caused a huge backlash on the left to Schumer and Democratic leadership. This time around, the window of opportunity for an off-ramp is there.

Both sides are saying that they want to come to some sort of path forward on these expiring Obamacare subsidies, but how they get there is much more complicated because Democrats have been saying that they need something in writing. They have to have something in legislation, rather than some sort of handshake agreement.

Because, since March, Democrats have seen what has played out across the federal government with DOGE and the unilateral clawbacks of federal funding that was appropriated by Congress, then, for that matter, what Democrats see is the breaking of agreements between the administration and Congress. It's poisoned the well in a lot of ways for any kind of bipartisan deal.

Brigid Bergin: Nick, a listener texts, "As a federal worker and a Democrat, I'm so tired of Congress shutting down and still getting paid. I'm an ACA user, but I need to get paid. I'm so sick of being between arguments where they are still getting paid and we suffer. Reopen the government. I would almost rather be without healthcare. I can't believe we are in an environment where I have to choose healthcare or putting food on the table." One listener feeling very frustrated with this moment. Let's go to another listener, Arthur in Queens, you're on WNYC.

Arthur: Hi. Good morning, and thank you for taking my call. After listening to you, I did switch over to-- I got on the laptop and sure enough, the radical left in Congress shut down the government. HUD will use available resources to help Americans in need. I look at all of this, and as a Democrat, my anger at times is that we have, I'm sorry, some of these boys and girls in office who still act like it's 1962.

They still go by the "Oh my, to my colleague on the other side." They're going at it like I said, like Hepburn is still making movies. [laughter] You're talking to a bunch of people. You're dealing with a generation like Ben Shapiro, who's like diarrhea of the mouth when that voice, and he gets going. You're dealing with that.

You're dealing with a whole bunch of fall-in-line people who are doing the same exact thing. You're still coming off as an old-school mom. I'm sorry, Chuck, and some of the others. It's like, "No, you're not dealing with these people. They have taken over the story. They are telling the story. One day you will get in check, but you need to, right now, turn around and start dealing with these folks."

What Governor Newsom did a while back with the memes, look at who did with Schumer and Jeffrey with his meme back and forth. You need to deal with these people on their level and stop this "If they go low, I go high." Say, "No, they go low, you get a shovel."

Brigid Bergin: All right, Arthur, thank you so much for that. A lot to unpack there, Nick, but let me give you an opportunity to respond, and then, of course, we will talk about some of the memes.

Nicholas Wu: For sure. I think what our listener there was really getting at was this desire among a lot of Democrats to try to fight Trump and his administration on their level. I think that's led to a lot of the frustration with Democratic leadership over the last few months, this sense that they're trying to deal with the administration as if it was a different age.

Whether or not that's fair, we'll see, but just take what happened this week, for example. Democratic leaders went to the White House with Republican congressional leaders to meet with President Trump and Vice President Vance about government funding. Afterwards, the first public statement that we saw about this from President Trump was that AI-generated deepfake meme of Hakeem Jeffries in a sombrero standing next to Chuck Schumer, with Schumer saying things about Democratic positions that were not at all what they had said.

It was an AI deepfake. The question for Democrats is how to respond to that, right? Do you try to take the high road, the classic Michelle Obama, "When they go low, we go high"? Do you respond with more memes? Yesterday, we saw an interesting turn for Hakeem Jeffries. By responding with an AI video of his own, with the JD Vance baby memes superimposed over JD Vance's press conference yesterday. That's kind of where we're seeing the partisan clash right now.

Brigid Bergin: And where we are seeing the partisan rhetoric on both sides heading. You have a piece out in POLITICO just this morning about how House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is trying to seize this moment to raise his national profile. He was not in the same position back in 2018 when the last shutdown took place. Excuse me. How significant is the change in the fact that he is in the role he is in now?

Nicholas Wu: For those who have covered Jeffries for some time, like you and I have, it's kind of remarkable to see his posture change over the last few days, going from a leader who very much has a reputation both in his caucus and externally as cool and collected to someone who's posting memes of JD Vance.

It's quite a turn, but in doing so, this appears to be a way that Jeffries is trying to insert himself more into the conversation and take the fight to Trump in a way that the Democratic base has been asking for from him. Perhaps this could work. Now, he's very much in some ways been the more under-the-radar Democratic leader compared to Leader Schumer.

Just by nature of having been in this position for less time, he doesn't have quite as much of a national profile as Nancy Pelosi did. I got to remember that she was in that for much longer. In the way that we've seen many Democrats use in the Trump era, he's trying to use Trump as a foil in a way that does seem to be building his presence on social media nationally and in a way that really demonstrates to the Democratic base that now he is someone who can take the fight.

Brigid Bergin: For those of you who are just joining us, this is The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian today. My guest is POLITICO congressional reporter Nicholas Wu, and we are talking about the federal government shutdown. We need to take a short break, but we'll have more of your calls and more unpacking of the situation with Nicholas Wu just after this. Stick around.

[MUSIC]

Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, filling in for Brian today. My guest is POLITICO congressional reporter Nicholas Wu. We're talking, of course, about the government shutdown. Nick, I want to play a little bit of how Jeffries responded to that meeting with President Trump on Monday and see if, to your ear, we start to hear this kind of new posture from him emerging.

Hakeem Jeffries: Donald Trump promised that costs were going to go down on Day 1, but costs aren't going down in the United States of America; costs are going up. Inflation is going up. America is too expensive. Democrats are fighting to address the Affordable Care Act issue and the Republican healthcare crisis because we believe that we need to make this country more affordable.

The reality is that in a matter of days, notices are going to go out to tens of millions of Americans, making clear that their healthcare is about to become dramatically more expensive in ways that will actually cause medical bankruptcy for many or some to have to forego necessary healthcare. That's not an acceptable thing in this country, the wealthiest country in the history of the world. We pointed that out consistently. This is a healthcare fight, but it's also a fight to lower the high cost of living here in the United States of America.

Brigid Bergin: Nick, that was about a minute, a little bit more from Jeffries in response to the meeting that he and Senate Minority Leader Schumer had with President Trump on Monday. That's a long message. Is this the best way for Democrats to be responding? We heard from another caller that Democrats have struggled with messaging. Do you hear any of that in that response?

Nicholas Wu: It's kind of the hazard for Democrats with this particular moment. They're very much trying to stay on message when it comes to the government shutdown, to make sure to blame Republicans to pop up these things that have been the main Democratic points all along about healthcare and cost of living issues, but then after that, we saw the different tack that Jefferies took when responding to the Trump AI-generative video, calling it racist, taking a more aggressive stance on social media.

It remains to be seen how exactly this will be reconciled between the very rehearsed, careful posture that he takes publicly and in many of his public statements, with these more fleeting moments where he does take a stronger line in public statements or on social media. For Jeffreys, it's like it's a much different sort of approach for him, someone who's always been a more rehearsed, careful leader.

Brigid Bergin: Nick, when I hear that clip, that, to me, sounds kind of like quintessential Hakeem Jeffries. As you said, very cautious, very on-message, very specific to the way they are trying to make their argument, and in many ways, a reflection of what we saw going back to 2018, when the House did have so many candidates successfully win and take over in 2019.

When you were talking to people for your most recent piece, how did they hear his most recent shift in tone and his most recent decision to kind of take the President's meme attacks and what have you head on?

Nicholas Wu: For Democrats I talked to on Capitol Hill, it was actually something they'd been looking for and craving from Jeffries for some time and for him to act with more urgency in his public statements and to be a little bolder in how he went about them, to show some level of, if not spontaneity, but a sharper attack against the President, the thing that fits into a 10-second sound bite as opposed to a minute-long. That's been the challenge for Democrats all along.

Brigid Bergin: I want to go back to the phones. Let's go to Hank in Ocean Grove, New Jersey. Hank, you're on WNYC.

Hank: Yes, I did want to say that it's apparent who shut down the government. The Republicans may have set the stage, but the Democrats really have triggered the shutdown. The reason why this shutdown differs from the compromise the last time around was that the demographics have shifted, and Democrats are now, particularly Schumer, threatened by primary elections on the AOC left.

I must say this is not the way to proceed. If you want to pass healthcare legislation, win the next election, don't shut down the government. This is certainly not a suitable alternative, and I can only believe that the voters will recognize that.

Brigid Bergin: Hank, can I ask you a question? As someone who you are attributing the shutdown to the Democrats, do you support any of the actions that Republicans want to take during the shutdown, the mass layoffs? Is that the way you would like to see the government trimmed?

Hank: It's not the way I would personally like to see it. This is not an age of compromise; it's an age of hardball politics. It's a tit-for-tat dynamic, and it just builds upon one another. The Democrats shut down the government, the Republicans play hardball on this, and then take extreme actions in order to go ahead and publicize who's responsible for the shutdown.

We're in a cycle here that is not very hopeful, but the way out is not to shut down the government. I think the Democrats have to concede that they can't get the legislation passed and run on that particular issue the next time around. Don't shut down the government.

Brigid Bergin: Hank, thank you so much for your call. Call us again. Nick, one of the things that Hank is raising there speaks to something that many, many listeners have texted, which is related to just the sheer fact that the Republicans control all three branches of government. One of the questions that has been asked, could the Republicans kind of change the rules of the game when it comes to the vote, and how much of that is at play when we talk about how many Democrats need to flip for this shutdown to break down?

Nicholas Wu: That's something that a lot of eyes are on right now, since in these test votes that have been held over the last few days, there have been three Democratic senators who voted with Republicans to push forward this Republican-backed stopgap to open the government. The question is whether or not any more Democrats are going to join them, because now, we got to remember, there's still the filibuster in the Senate, which requires 60 votes to advance legislation, which means you need at least 7 Democrats to vote with Republicans.

Right now, the pressures aren't quite there for Democrats to do that yet. I think after March and the backlash that Democrats faced for voting with Republicans to fund the government, a lot of Democrats are very wary of that. It's something that they're very loath to admit publicly, but the risk of primary challenges and, for that matter, just the kind of base-level backlash that they saw at town halls and beyond is something that a lot of members of Congress keep in mind right now.

Republicans are hopeful that as they go through more votes on funding the government over these next few days, weeks, perhaps longer, that they could eventually peel off more Democratic senators, but right now, that's not happening.

Brigid Bergin: Let's go to Dominic in Riverdale. Dominic, you're on WNYC.

Dominic: Hi. Thank you for taking my call, Brigid. Hi, Nick. I fully support what the Democrats are doing, and I think they should take the responsibility for helping to shut down the government. Hakeem Jeffries seems like a nice guy, and that's the problem. I appreciate the nuance, but I think, again, the saying they're bringing slingshots, and the Republicans are using the atomic bomb.

I don't care for the memes. I'm not of that generation. I don't understand why people think that in the old days, people were congenial. I remember I wasn't there, but one senator almost beat another senator to death over slavery. United States politics has always been rough and tumble. I think what the Democrats need to do is get Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and get rid of Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer.

I also think my great state of New York should stop sending federal tax dollars to the federal government for a few months as a big middle finger to the federal government, which is abusing its authority; it's abusing its powers. The current occupant in the White House is a president in name only. Apparently, we've lost the definition of what a president does. This is because I think the United States still has a love affair with the monarchy of England and wants it.

Brigid Bergin: Dominic, I'm going to jump in there. Thank you for your spirited comments and walking us right up to that FCC line, but not crossing it with your take on how things are going and what you think New York State should do. Nick, I'm sure you appreciate that as well, but he does raise some really interesting issues.

I want to go back for a moment to what he said there about the memes. We've mentioned them. These are messages that were sent out from President Trump, essentially making fun of these Democratic leaders. Vice President JD Vance was asked about them yesterday at a press briefing. Here's how he weighed in.

Correspondent: You've said that you're interested in good-faith negotiations with these leaders, but what message does that send? Is it helpful to post pictures of Leader Jeffries and a sombrero if you're trying to have good-faith talks with him?

Vice President JD: Oh, I think it's funny. The President's joking, and we're having a good time. You can negotiate in good faith while also poking a little bit of fun at some of the absurdities of the Democrats' positions and even poking some fun at the absurdity of the Democrats themselves. I'll tell Hakeem Jeffries right now, I make this solemn promise to you that if you help us reopen the government, the sombrero memes will stop. [laughter] I've talked to the President of the United States about that.

Brigid Bergin: Nick, a little laughter to the response from the Vice President, but this really is a shift in how the federal government conducts negotiations, how leaders communicate with each other. What does this say about how the White House is approaching these negotiations? Are they having a good time?

Nicholas Wu: The Vice President certainly seems to think they're having a good time. The question for all parties in this negotiation is just when exactly negotiations might reopen, because right now, both sides are really just tweeting memes at each other. There's not any horse trading going on around government funding. There's not any meetings happening. No one's even picking up the phone, which doesn't bode well for reopening the government any time soon.

Brigid Bergin: Nick, where do Republican congressional leaders fit into all of this? Do you get this sense that they are just willing to let the President take over the power of the purse and carry out these mass layoffs?

Nicholas Wu: It seems that Republican leaders have given a lot of deference to the administration right now. There are some corners among purple district House Republicans, for example, who are rather concerned about the possibility of mass layoffs. Even what we've seen in the past 24, 36 hours with the Trump administration pausing federal funds for green energy projects and big infrastructure projects in the Northeast, that's something that even purple district House Republicans have expressed a lot of concern about. The question is whether or not this will lead to any pressure on Republican leaders to come back to the table or if they'll continue deference to the White House.

Brigid Bergin: I want to go back to another caller. Let's go to Peter in Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, who I think has a question. Peter, you're on WNYC.

Peter: Yes, hi there. I'm listening to your discussion. I thought about it, and I saw a segment on CNN yesterday with Speaker Johnson saying that basically he doesn't understand why the Democrats are having such a problem because they're keeping the resolution bill as a clean bill and on the last year's budget, which was under Biden, so the amounts don't change.

I kind of don't buy that for some reason, because over the past eight months or so, we've been hearing them call back how many billions of dollars from different parts of the government. I'm actually wondering how actually clean that bill is.

Brigid Bergin: Peter, thanks for that question. Nick, can you speak to this idea of the clean CR?

Nicholas Wu: That is a really good point raised because, at least in the usual Capitol Hill parlance, for all intents and purposes, this is a "clean continuing resolution," because unlike previous stopgap funding bills that Republicans have brought up and have led to some big legislative fights, there's not cuts to offset federal spending.

There's not the so-called riders, these extraneous provisions that are in the bill, but the argument Democratic leadership has advanced is one that our listener brought up, which is that it's not a clean bill in the sense that it doesn't constrain the administration from doing the things it has been doing, like the mass firings of federal workers, like the unilateral clawbacks of federal money, like the cuts to programs and the withholding of other money.

That is a big thing that Democrats are trying to get into any future funding bill. It's restraints on the administration and some way to guarantee that money appropriated by Congress is actually spent. However, whether or not they're actually going to get that in anything more than a handshake deal remains to be seen.

Brigid Bergin: I'm going to sneak one more caller in. Let's try Gio in Bellmore. Gio, you're on WNYC.

Gio: Hi, good morning. I just want to say that Democrats have no fire in the belly. They don't know how to speak to people in common, everyday terms, that explains to them clearly and concisely, and in very short, concise snaps of what the problem is. They always let the Republicans run over them. The gentleman said that the Republicans show deference to Trump.

They should make a point that the Republicans don't show deference. They're rolling over like dogs and letting him do whatever he wants. It's basically turning the country into dictatorship. It already has, but Democrats need to step up. Maybe they need to hire some comedians or 15-year-old kids to be able to fight back, but fight back.

No, seriously, but fight back intelligently. New York state, the textbooks are full of wonderful cartoons that, in one little cartoon, shows exactly what's going on. My meme would have been Trump's fat ankles, and that would've said everything.

Brigid Bergin: Gio, thank you for that. We appreciate your suggestions there for the Democrats, or your take on it. Nick, again, I think we've heard repeatedly, in this conversation, concerns, really, that are about messaging, and that the messaging coming from the Democrats up to now has not necessarily met the messaging from Republicans.

I'm wondering, what are you watching for as things move forward? Are you looking for the messaging to change any further, and are there particular members that you have eyes on that you think could really be key to unsticking this very stuck situation?

Nicholas Wu: I'm keeping my eye on a number of different purple state Democratic senators who are part of these informal conversations about a way out of this whole crisis. That's folks like Jeanne Shaheen, a Democrat from New Hampshire. These are some of the folks who helped vote to advance the Republican funding bill in March.

As this drags on, I would keep a close eye on what these folks are saying about the status of negotiations. I would keep an eye on what Democratic leaders are saying about what they need to get out of this. Right now, Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have been saying that they are in total lockstep and are going to remain on the same page when it comes to their stance on government funding, but if there are any cracks in that, or for that matter, if there are any cracks on the Republican side, that could be a potential path out of this.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to have to leave it there for today. My guest has been POLITICO's Nicholas Wu, congressional reporter. Nick, I know you're going to be pretty busy as this continues to play out. Thanks so much for joining us.

Nicholas Wu: Thanks so much for having me.

 

Copyright © 2025 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.