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David Furst: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning. I'm David Furst, WNYC's Weekend Edition host, filling in for Brian today. From the Stonewall uprising to some of the country's earliest anti-discrimination laws, New York has long been at the forefront of LGBTQ rights. Now the state is facing new challenges as the Trump administration, in its second term, moves to roll back federal protections. Just last week, the White House followed through on a threat to pull $15 million in funding for New York City's magnet schools unless the city changed its policies allowing transgender students to use bathrooms and join sports teams consistent with their gender identity. Mayor Eric Adams, who once pledged to safeguard LGBTQ rights, has said he wants to "use whatever power I have to end the city's bathroom access policy."

Mayor Eric Adams: Boys and girls should not be in the same restrooms at the same time. I think the average parent, particularly if their child is a girl, would agree with me. That is what I believe. I'm going to look at exactly what the policy is, and if it's allowing them to be in the same restroom at the same time, I'm going to use whatever power I have to stop that.

David Furst: Where does this leave New York? A place that has long promised to be a haven. What does this battle mean for LGBTQ students, families, and communities across the state? Joining us to talk about all of this is Giulia Heyward, reporter for WNYC and Gothamist, who has been following all of these stories. Giulia, it's great to have you with us this morning.

Giulia Heyward: Thank you for having me.

David Furst: Listeners, we can take some calls as well. New York has often promised to be a safe place for LGBTQ rights, but now federal cuts and new policies at the city and county level are putting that to the test. If you are a student, parent, teacher, advocate, how are these changes affecting you, your school, or your community? Give us a call, 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Giulia, since January, what kinds of protections for LGBTQ people has the Trump administration rolled back nationwide?

Giulia Heyward: Donald Trump and his administration have been rolling back on legal protections and resources for queer people since his second term began back in January. It's hit every facet of life for Americans, from health care to the military to education. This includes the federal government placing more restrictions on gender affirming care for people under the age of 19, including a trans person's access to puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and gender affirming surgery. Also, a suicide hotline specifically tailored to LGBTQ+ youth also dissolved over the summer.

The federal government's also reversed some previously defined protections for trans kids in schools, like being able to compete in sports teams or use bathrooms that align with their gender identity rather than their biological sex. Also, the dissolution of diversity, equity, and inclusion programs has also caused the 11th-hour cancellation of exhibits at museums, film festivals, and other art involving queer subject matter.

David Furst: New York has often seen itself as being this haven for LGBTQ rights. How has that played out in the way that leaders here are responding to the rollbacks? The Trump administration rollbacks?

Giulia Heyward: That's a great question. The Stonewall riots, which birthed the modern-day Pride movement, took place here in New York City. Consequently, both the city and the state have some of the most robust legal protections in place for queer people. This means that while some federal protections for LGBTQ+ people have dissolved, residents still are, in theory, protected by local law to access some of these rights. Namely, there is state human rights law that protects against discrimination against one's gender identity.

Lawmakers have also been introducing and passing legislation to further strengthen the state protections that we have in place. The city budget also allocated a record amount of funding, nearly $14 million, towards making sure that local residents here in the city still have access to gender affirming care.

David Furst: You've reported that New York City has already lost $15 million in federal magnet school funding because of its transgender student policies. What exactly triggered that cut?

Giulia Heyward: Like I've said earlier, the federal government is limited in its reach because of these local protections that we have here in New York. Last month, the head of the federal Education Department told the New York City School District, as well as those in Chicago and Fairfax county, which is in Virginia, that if they didn't reconsider its policies allowing trans kids to use bathrooms and compete on sports teams that correspond to their gender identity, that New York City's school district would lose federal funding that was allocated to magnet schools.

David Furst: What does that money fund? Who feels the impact? What is the money funding, and what programs are disappearing? Who really feels the hurt from that?

Giulia Heyward: That's another great question. Myself and other colleagues, we've reached out to the White House and the local education department numerous times, and we still haven't gotten a clear response on what exactly this money funds. I mean, your guess is as good as mine.

David Furst: Okay. Mayor Adams now is saying that he wants to roll back bathroom access for transgender students. Why is he making this move now? Does he have the authority to do that?

Giulia Heyward: Yes. Eric Adams publicly vowed to see what legal authority he has to get rid of the school district's policy, which allows trans students to use bathrooms that correspond with their gender identity. He did this after the federal government threatened to pull funding because of the same policy. I've spoken to both the local education department and civil rights groups, and both have told me that Eric Adams doesn't have the legal authority to do anything.

David Furst: Doesn't have the authority to do this.

Giulia Heyward: Yes.

David Furst: Eric Adams is now out of the race. How have the other mayoral candidates responded when we're talking about LGBTQ rights and everything that's happening with these rollbacks?

Giulia Heyward: Zohran Mamdani, who was the Democratic frontrunner in this race, publicly denounced Adams's comments about trans kids and bathroom access. Mamdani has also publicly denounced other rollbacks that the Trump administration has done over LGBTQ+ rights in general. Over the summer, Mamdani said that he wants to establish the city as a sanctuary city for LGBTQ+ people. We also have Andrew Cuomo, who is in the race. He's the former governor of New York who was also known for signing same-sex marriage into law and banning conversion therapy in the state while he was in office. Curtis Sliwa has also publicly supported LGBTQ+ people in the past.

David Furst: If you would like to join this conversation, by the way, here's the phone number. 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. We're speaking with WNYC reporter Giulia Heyward, and we do have a text saying here that Adams' clip is so frustrating because saying boys and girls shouldn't be in the same restrooms clearly shows that he doesn't see trans girls as real girls or trans boys as real boys. That contrasts directly with his statement that he wants to respect people's identities.

Very interesting. Thank you for that comment. If you'd like to join, again, the number, 212-433-9692. Now, the state Education Department says that restricting bathroom access would violate the state human rights law. Could this turn into a legal fight between the city and the state, or is it really not going to get that far because the mayor's not going to end up really doing anything here?

Giulia Heyward: Exactly. Legal experts I've spoken to have told me that the city and the state are in a position where they could pursue litigation because some of these federal protections do go against our local law. This has already played out, actually, in Nassau County, which is on Long Island. It enacted a ban last year on trans girls and women in sports teams, basically by not allowing them to use county-run facilities that correspond with their gender identity.

The second that, or the same day that this ban became law, both the New York Civil Liberties Union and the Attorney General's office filed separate lawsuits, which are both still making their way through the court system right now, arguing that this local ban in Nassau goes against our state protections.

David Furst: I'm David Furst, filling in for Brian Lehrer today. We're here with WNYC reporter Giulia Heyward. What about the governor? How is Governor Hochul positioning herself on LGBTQ rights at this moment, and let's look at how that perhaps contrasts with the stance of the mayor.

Giulia Heyward: She has continued to publicly vow her support for the LGBTQ+ rights movement.

David Furst: You've also been covering the role of local education councils, like the Manhattan School Board, that has voted to limit trans athletes. A newly elected board in that district later withdrew that vote. If you could walk us through that again, because it's a little bit confusing. What role do these councils play also in actually crafting and implementing policy?

Giulia Heyward: That's correct. The school board for a district in Manhattan, it's Community Education Council District 2. Think the lower tip of Manhattan up to the Upper East Side. That Community Education Council voted to send a letter to the local education department, basically asking them to reconsider their policy, which allows trans students to compete in sports teams that match their gender identity. That's about as much as this council can do. They act as more of an advisory board. They have no actual authority to change the school district or the state's policy, but it does send a message.

I've actually spoken to some of the parents of trans kids in that specific school district and also in other parts of New York, and families are nervous. I mean, these are pre-established legal protections, and for the first time in years, it feels as if it's come into question. It is communicating this sense of uncertainty around families here in New York.

David Furst: Beyond education, what other areas of LGBTQ life are being targeted by these federal rollback efforts?

Giulia Heyward: Like I said earlier, the military, health care, and the arts. I mean, really, truly, a lot of facets of our day-to-day public life are being impacted by what's going on right now with these rollbacks.

David Furst: You've been covering the story in bits and pieces over this past month or so. What is your sense talking to people, talking with parents, talking with kids, talking with advocates about what they're going through right now?

Giulia Heyward: New York is in this really interesting position right now. Again, we are the birthplace of the modern-day Pride movement. There are a lot of other states that don't have the same legal protections who do look at lawmakers here as the pioneer of how to exactly deal with these rollbacks. There is, I think, this responsibility, a sense of responsibility that some of the lawmakers I've spoken to have told me. There are plenty of families here who, again, have felt as if they've always had these pre-established legal protections for themselves, for their kids, who again now are starting to question whether or not that's true. There's a lot of uncertainty right now, and we are going to see this play out in the courts a lot more going forward.

David Furst: I want to read this text as well. When you're talking about some of the things that have been rolled back and changed. This text says, "She left off removing all references to trans women at the Stonewall Monument in the Village, unnaming the Navy ship after gay leader Harvey Milk, shutting down the LGBT suicide hotline, defunding all university studies that mention gay medical issues." I want to come back to that question. As you speak with advocates and students and parents, it almost feels like there's an effort to erase your existence.

Giulia Heyward: That listener is absolutely correct. Again, it's been an expansive list of rollbacks that we've seen. Actually, with the Stonewall Monument, which is here in Manhattan as well, there is a pride flag display that goes on for Pride Month. This year, the trans pride flag wasn't allowed to be displayed there in the way that it normally is. I spoke to Steven Menendez, who is the man who's been running the pride flag display. It was something that really affected him and people to not see that flag there anymore. I've spoken to some queer historians about what exactly this movement means. One thing that's really stuck to me is this concept of the politics of safety, the politics of being someplace publicly.

Right now, even if the local school board is just able to make recommendations or send a letter, if Eric Adams is only able to make a statement about how he would see what authority he does have, even right now with some of these executive orders still in court, regardless of if these rollbacks actually do continue to take place or not, there's this message that's being communicated to people, the idea that they don't belong here, the idea that they're not welcome here. That's a feeling that isn't necessarily in legislation, but it does permeate into how people in this country feel, both in New York and outside of the state.

David Furst: If you'd like to join this discussion and really just add a comment, please feel welcome. The number, 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Let's take a call right now. This is Derek in Washington Heights. Welcome.

Derek: Hello. Hello, can you hear me?

David Furst: Absolutely, yes. Do you have a comment?

Derek: Yes, I have a quick comment and a question that's really relevant to a whole slew of issues that are going on, specifically as it relates to the LGBTQIA community. There are a couple of different initiatives that are federally funded that are related to housing for people within the community that are afflicted by HIV/AIDS. It's called HASA, and I believe it's federally funded, along with Housing Opportunities for Persons with AIDS, another federally funded program, another same thing with support of housing component.

Due to the things that are being rolled back by our Mr. President Trump, I wonder, are those on the chopping block, have they been rolled back? Those provide a really, really critical lifeline for people within the community, and it obviously has a humongous effect on housing and as well as health outcomes.

David Furst: Giulia, I don't know if you've reported on this, but maybe something to look into.

Giulia Heyward: Yes. That is actually an excellent question to ask. This is something that's come up. Again, the intersectionality of all of these issues involving housing, statistically, queer youth are more likely to be homeless compared to their straight cis peers. I didn't get a chance to talk about this, but earlier this year, New York City actually opened the first publicly funded homeless shelter for trans people. It's called Ace's Place. Right now, they offer about 150 beds and other services. We are seeing some effort to address that issue as well. Housing is also huge for the LGBTQ+ community here in New York.

David Furst: Let's take another call. This is Louis in Queens. Welcome to the Brian Lehrer Show.

Louis: Hi. Welcome. I mean, thank you.

David Furst: Of course, welcome and thank you.

Louis: I wanted to share a little bit about-- Earlier, the two of you were speaking about the Community Education Council in District 2 in Manhattan, which was the district where I went to school. I was also involved with the organizing effort to elect a new board. I just wanted to share a bit about that experience. I can keep going.

David Furst: Yes, sure.

Louis: Each month, basically, there was a huge effort. There was really one particular person on this board who was affiliated with Moms for Liberty, and she was the effort behind the anti-trans resolution, and after she was elected, and she also tried to pass other resolutions to ban books relating to race and other "hot button" issues. Each month, there was a Community Education Council meeting, and the organizers would ask usually over 100 trans advocates and allies to show up. We did. We brought signs. Sometimes there were noisemakers, and we would just sit there and show our support. Yes, sometimes it was very hostile. Members of the board would sometimes yell at us or swear at us.

David Furst: You were still there showing support?

Louis: Yes, we showed support. This took over a year of effort. Eventually, so this past spring, there were the new elections, and there was a huge canvassing effort. Many of us went out to elementary and middle schools during pickup and drop off to just give information to the parents because many of them didn't know how to vote or even that elections were happening. We told them, this is how you set up your account. This is how you fill out the vote. As a result, yes, the new Community Education Council is much more representative of the parents in District 2, which also includes Chelsea, which, as many listeners know, is a very LGBTQ friendly neighborhood. Yes, it took a lot of effort. It wasn't just inevitable that this board would be ousted. Just wanted to mention that.

David Furst: Thank you so much for joining today, Louis. Thank you for your comment. I want to read another text as well. This is someone writing in saying, "Mainstream centrist Democrats always want to try to 'meet in the middle or compromise with the right,' but I can say, as a queer person, the LGBTQ+ is fuming over how centrist Democrats are throwing us under the bus. I think a lot of LGBTQ people appreciate that Zohran Mamdani is standing firm in support of our community, in contrast to many Democrats. They're saying, I think a lot of queer people are questioning our support of mainstream Democrats and our practices of voting for any Democratic candidate." Is that something you're hearing as you cover this story from any people?

Giulia Heyward: Yes. I mean, it's, again, so interesting about the moment that we're in right now. In a place like New York City, LGBTQ+ rights, again, have been long established for so long. Right now, with this mayoral race, it's become a topic again that Mamdani, Cuomo, and Sliwa are all talking about. Yes, absolutely.

David Furst: I also want to acknowledge we're getting a lot of texts along the lines of this one here. "I am a cis gay man in New York City for 30 years. I support trans persons in nearly every aspect of life, work, housing, marriage, et cetera. I do not support them for, one, bathroom access, et cetera, two, pronoun rights, three, sports team access. Those issues are simply costing Democrats too many members, and I assume following from that, too many votes." Is that a sentiment that you hear a lot as you cover this story?

Giulia Heyward: Yes. In some of the comments that people will make about trans people and access to bathrooms, you will hear this idea that it's about safety for girls. We shouldn't allow trans girls to use the same bathrooms as cis girls because of this fear that trans people would be perpetrators of sexual assault or violence. Research shows that it's actually the opposite. The National Institute of Health actually has research showing that trans people are often victims of sexual assault and violence. They're more likely to be so than their cis peers, not perpetrators of it.

Really, what this legislation, like banning bathrooms, does is it doesn't actually make people safer. In fact, it would take one of the most vulnerable populations in the country and put them more at risk.

David Furst: We're going to hear much more from you in the weeks and months ahead. I'm sure Giulia Heyward, reporter for WNYC and Gothamist, will continue to listen for your coverage. Thank you so much for joining us.

Giulia Heyward: Thank you for having me.

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