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Matt Katz: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Matt Katz, a former reporter here at WNYC. I'm now running a news and culture podcast in Philadelphia called City Cast Philly, and I'm filling in for Brian today. Coming up on today's show, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has canceled funding for vaccine development using mRNA technology. My guest, Dr. Michael Osterholm, a vaccine and infectious disease expert, is extremely concerned that this decision will leave us less prepared for the next pandemic.

Plus, later in the show, New Yorker writer Adam Gopnik takes us through the history of gambling here in the city. City and state officials are currently reviewing proposals for what will eventually be three new casinos in the New York City area. Adam Gopnik will tell us about the history of illegal gambling here as we prepare for what will be several new locations for legal gambling. We'll wrap today's show with a look at the salary negotiations taking place in the WNBA. The players say they are woefully underpaid. They want a larger share of the team's growing revenues.

The team owners in the league will probably point to a still-unprofitable league despite the explosion in popularity and WNBA players who are now household names. We begin today with one of two health and climate stories of the week. This week we're talking about the ongoing Legionnaires' outbreak in Central Harlem where more than 90 people have gotten sick and three have died so far. Joining us now is Caroline Lewis, healthcare reporter for WNYC and Gothamist, and Joe Hong, investigative data reporter for WNYC and Gothamist, to talk about their reporting on the Legionnaires' outbreak. Caroline and Joe, welcome to the show.

Caroline Lewis: Thanks, Matt.

Joe Hong: Thanks, Matt.

Matt Katz: Great to talk to you guys. Let's just start with the disease itself. Do a little explainer here. Caroline, what is Legionnaires' disease?

Caroline Lewis: Legionnaires' is a type of pneumonia, and it involves flu-like symptoms. You can have a cough, sometimes shortness of breath, fever, chills, muscle aches, things like that. When people get it, sometimes, it can be really severe and land people in the hospital. I spoke to one person who had been in the hospital for 22 days with Legionnaires'. We do sometimes see deaths when there are these kinds of outbreaks. City officials say when it's caught early, it can usually be treated with antibiotics.

Matt Katz: You can't really catch it from another person. It's only coming from, as far as we know, these water towers.

Caroline Lewis: Yes. To talk a bit about how it spreads, you don't catch it. It's not spread from person to person. It's spread by this bacteria, Legionella, which you can either inhale in mist when it's emitted from water cooling towers, which are part of the air conditioning systems in some of the bigger buildings in New York City, or sometimes from a plumbing system, like a shower head, or sometimes a hot tub or a faucet. It grows in water, but you can't get it from drinking the water. You would have to either inhale it in a mist or aspirate it, which is if you're drinking water and it goes down the wrong pipe and gets in your lungs. In the city, more commonly, we see outbreaks tied to water cooling towers where it's emitted in this mist into the air, and people are just breathing it in. That's how it spreads.

Matt Katz: Cooling towers on top of buildings, but not necessarily in a regular window air conditioner or a leaky window air conditioner?

Caroline Lewis: Yes. It's not because window air conditioners don't use water as part of their cooling system. Legionella specifically grows in water.

Matt Katz: How serious is the diagnosis of Legionnaires'? What's the treatment? I mean, we've seen now three people die. This is very serious.

Caroline Lewis: Yes. I think it's important to know that Legionella, the bacteria, is relatively common, and a lot of people come into contact with it without getting sick. Most of the people who end up getting really sick with Legionnaires', which pneumonia is pretty serious, often have one of several risk factors. Usually, they're over 50, people who have a chronic lung disease, like asthma, people who are smokers. There are several risk factors that might lead someone to get really sick with Legionnaires'.

Like I said, it can absolutely be treated with antibiotics. It's not necessarily super serious for everyone, but certainly, people do end up in the hospital. So far in this current outbreak, which city officials have said is tied to a water cooling tower in Harlem, although they haven't confirmed which one yet, 90 people have gotten sick. Three people have died. Currently, there's still 17 people in the hospital, although that's down from more than 20 last week. It seems like we might be on the tail end of this outbreak, and new cases might be slowing down. The city health department said yesterday it's a little too soon to say that we're definitely past the peak.

Matt Katz: Listeners, we'd like to hear from you. Were you or someone you know affected by this outbreak, or do you have a question about how the city has responded to Legionella bacteria? We're going to talk about that shortly. If you live in Central Harlem, where most of the cases are found, have you gotten the message to be vigilant about cold symptoms? Have you heard that from health authorities? Give us a call. Text us. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. All right, Caroline, I want to get to some of the inspections in a moment. Just back up for a second and tell us when this outbreak began. Go to the beginning of this.

Caroline Lewis: Yes. In late July, we started hearing that the city was responding to a cluster of Legionnaires' cases in Harlem. I think it's important to note that there are actually hundreds of Legionnaires' cases reported in the city every single year. The city health officials really respond when they're like, "Okay, here's a little cluster that it seems like there's a common source here." In this case, the numbers started to grow, and they have said, "It does not seem like this is just one building where it's likely the plumbing system."

It's spread out across these several zip codes in Central Harlem. They identified it's going to be a cooling tower that's emitting this mist with Legionella into the air. They started testing different water cooling towers in the area that was affected, and they identified 11 that tested positive for Legionella. They said all of those have been remediated at this point. The idea is that people shouldn't be getting infected if it really was one of those 11. We continued to see cases because symptoms might be delayed. There's an incubation period. Hopefully, cases will now start to go down.

They're still working to try to match the cultures from the cooling towers and from people who are catching Legionnaires' to find out really which building it is that has been getting people sick, and they'll do a more thorough cleaning on that building. I think it's raised a lot of questions, like you said, about there are laws in place to regulate water cooling towers in the city. Those came out after there was an even worse outbreak in 2015. The question is, how are they being enforced? How are they being followed? Are they really working as they're supposed to?

Matt Katz: That last outbreak, 2015, was in the South Bronx. Any reason why Harlem and the South Bronx were the neighborhoods that were affected by this in recent history?

Caroline Lewis: Looking into it, I think there are several factors that lead to Legionnaires'. You need environmental conditions where Legionella can grow, which warmer temperatures and sediment might play a role in the water. There is a lot of humidity, a lot of factors that might cause Legionella to grow. Then you also need a population that is exposed to it. A certain amount of population density might mean that more people are exposed to Legionella, and people who, like I said, are vulnerable to getting sick. I think with a lot of diseases like COVID and other conditions, you see that there are communities where there are worse health outcomes, and they're more susceptible to diseases like this. We do find that higher poverty neighborhoods and Black residents are disproportionately affected by Legionnaires'.

Matt Katz: Joe Hong, I'd love to bring you in on the conversation. Do you know which buildings these are? Where the infected water towers are located specifically?

Joe Hong: No, we don't know that yet. The Health Department has not released that information, unfortunately.

Matt Katz: Have they said why that is?

Joe Hong: I don't know. Maybe Caroline could respond to that one.

Matt Katz: Caroline, do you know why they haven't talked about that?

Caroline Lewis: Sure. I mean, I think that is a source of a lot of frustration for residents in Harlem. A lot of people have been talking about, "Why are they not telling us which buildings these are? How do I know if I'm walking by the building? How do I know if I live in the building?" The city Health Department spokesperson has been saying, she explained it this way. She said, "We don't want to give people a false sense of security." Like, "Oh, I don't regularly walk by that address, so I'm safe." In this case, it is a mist that's coming out into the air. I don't know specifically how far the mist with Legionella travels and what the radius is.

She was basically saying, "We want anyone in the area who feels flu-like symptoms to be vigilant and seek medical care just in case during this outbreak. We don't want to say, 'Oh, it's just these buildings,' because that isn't quite how it spreads." I think, too, in the past, we've seen with other outbreaks, they typically will reveal what the source was when they confirm it. In the 2015 outbreak, I think they said, "Oh, here are these five buildings that tested positive for Legionella in the area." Then they confirmed it was the Opera House Hotel that specifically was getting people sick. I think, hopefully, they will identify the location when they confirm it this time also.

Matt Katz: We have a bunch of callers with some questions that maybe you guys can answer. Can either of you answer what the city is doing to contain the current outbreak? What do they do to clean these water towers? How does that work?

Joe Hong: Yes. I've been told by a city spokesperson that the Department of Health has started inspecting all the cooling towers and the affected zip codes. Basically, that just means testing the cooling towers for the Legionella bacteria, making sure they're all disinfected and cleaned. Part of the investigation has been testing the infected people and doing an analysis of the genetic information from the Legionella bacteria so they can trace it back to a specific cooling tower or specific cooling towers.

Matt Katz: Wow. That's kind of amazing. Wow. I want to go to the phone lines. A lot of people have questions. Sarit in Manhattan. Good morning, Sarit.

Sarit: Hello.

Matt Katz: Hi. Thanks for calling in.

Sarit: Hi. Thank you. My question is, should people be wearing masks like we did during the coronavirus pandemic, since this is a virus or bacteria that can be breathed in or inhaled? If masks are recommended, then are there specific masks that should be worn to prevent inhaling the bacteria? Thank you.

Matt Katz: Great question, Sarit. Do you guys have an answer to those questions?

Caroline Lewis: I haven't dug into that with public health experts, but it's not something the city has recommended. I think they've been focused more on being vigilant about symptoms. It is true that an N95 is the most effective mask if you're trying to prevent airborne particles. I know from covering COVID for a long time, if you're going to wear a mask, N95 is the gold standard. The city has not specifically recommended that.

Matt Katz: They're not making any recommendations in that regard. They're just saying be aware of these symptoms, which are the general symptoms of just sickness. Then maybe go where? Go get tested for this if you have these flu-like symptoms?

Caroline Lewis: Yes. Go to the doctor. Obviously, if you're feeling extreme symptoms like shortness of breath or something like that, go to the hospital. This is pneumonia. Usually, you go to the doctor for pneumonia, you're going to get antibiotics, you might get tested for it. Because of the heightened awareness about Legionnaires', doctors will also specifically test for Legionnaires' and report those cases. We certainly have seen an increase in diagnoses for Legionnaires' in recent years. I think there are various theories. It could be related to climate change because the bacteria Legionella does thrive in warmer temperatures. I think experts say it's also partly just heightened awareness, more doctors knowing that they should test for this disease when people present with certain symptoms.

Matt Katz: Was this a disease that had largely disappeared and then has cropped up again in higher numbers?

Caroline Lewis: Legionnaires' was first discovered in the 1970s, and so we have been aware of it since then. Between 2000 and 2018, according to CDC numbers, Legionnaires' exploded, really grew a significant amount nationally. It doesn't really occur all over the country. It's specifically parts of the Northeast and the Midwest. Looking at analysis of CDC data, New York specifically has a really high disease burden. I think there are certain conditions that make it favorable to Legionella and Legionnaires'. Also, that heightened awareness by doctors here might also play a role.

Matt Katz: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Matt Katz, filling in for Brian today. I'm talking to WNYC and Gothamist reporters Caroline Lewis and Joe Hong. We're talking about the city's Legionnaires' outbreak. Joe, you did some investigating into the city's role in inspecting these water towers to monitor for Legionnaires' disease. Tell us what you found.

Joe Hong: Yes. Just to back up a little bit, back in 2015, after that really bad outbreak where 138 people got sick and 16 people died, the city created some new regulations around these cooling towers that were the main source of that outbreak. Basically, they required building owners to register their cooling towers and test them regularly, and submit regular test results to the city. The regulations also authorized the city to inspect these building towers.

When the city inspections first started back in 2017, they really started in full force with over 5,000 cooling towers inspected in 2017. Since then, the number has gradually declined year over year. We're basically on pace to hit a record low this year with less than half the inspections that were conducted in 2017. I should note that the public health experts I spoke with say it's natural that the inspection regime would loosen up a little bit after that initial push. More than a 50% cut in inspections is a little concerning.

Matt Katz: Yes. What does the city say? How do they explain this drop in inspections that may have contributed in some way to this outbreak?

Joe Hong: Yes, the city health department told me that it's the result of a staffing shortage, and they are working to recruit more inspectors. City hall also told me, though, that the current staff has been sufficient to respond to this current outbreak, so I should mention that as well.

Matt Katz: We got a text from a listener who's quite critical of this. "The current administration is blaming the outbreak of Legionnaires' disease with staffing at the health department, as if they're not charged with staffing the health department. This is a failure, just like the shortage of lifeguards last year." The texter went on to say, "I guarantee you staffing at the parking department enforcement is at the highest level it's ever been. It's a priority thing." Do you get that sense that it's not like there have been major cuts in staffing among health workers? It's just more that they have prioritized different things. We've had COVID since 2015. That's one example. Changing priorities, more so than just a drop in funding and staffing overall?

Joe Hong: That's hard to say at this point. That's something I'm trying to understand better, is just the severity of the staffing shortage and what the staffing numbers look like right now compared to 2017 when these efforts first started. You mentioned COVID, and if you look at the history of the inspections, unsurprisingly, you see a significant drop in the number of inspections during COVID. Then you see the number bounce back up to almost pre-COVID levels. Then in 2024 and 2023, it's almost like COVID happened again when you look at these inspection numbers. They drop down to that level. Now we're set to hit a historic low. These are all important questions that we're trying to answer.

Matt Katz: The inspections happen, and if they see some evidence of the bacteria, then what happens? Are they fined? The towers that were then cleaned, what happens next?

Joe Hong: Yes. Just to take one step back, the onus is partly on the building owners to regularly inspect or regularly test the water and the cleanliness of these systems. Basically, they're doing very frequent weekly tests for just general bacteria. Then, if they detect high numbers there, they do a more focused test for Legionella bacteria. Every three months, they're required to do a test for Legionella. Then, on top of that, the city inspects these towers. The city told me they aim to inspect every year. The city comes in and they make sure that the building owners are doing these regular tests, that they're keeping records, that there's a qualified person doing these tests. If they find any violations, that usually results in a fine, I believe between $500 and $1,000.

Matt Katz: Got it. This is the Brian Lehrer Show. I'm Matt Katz, filling in for Brian. I'm talking to WNYC and Gothamist reporters Caroline Lewis and Joe Hong. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with your calls, more in a minute.

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It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Matt Katz, filling in for Brian today, and speaking with WNYC and Gothamist reporters Caroline Lewis and Joe Hong. We're talking about the city's Legionnaires' outbreak and the response to it. Let's go right to the phone lines. Ed in Harlem. Hi, Ed. Good morning.

Ed: Good morning, Matt. How are you doing?

Matt Katz: Great. Thank you for calling in.

Ed: Can you hear me?

Matt Katz: Yes, sir.

Ed: Yes. I wanted to make the point that previously to 2025, we had outbreaks in Harlem smaller than this, much smaller than this in 2019. I remember more so in 2021. That's a quote from the Amsterdam News. In the 2021 outbreak, which was a lot smaller than this, we had a response from the health department with a virtual Zoom town hall shortly after the initial outbreak. Now with this outbreak, there's been nothing, absolutely nothing. There's been word of mouth. My personal building doesn't have a water tower, but I'm close to other buildings that do.

In that previous outbreak, also, I do not recall ever they designating the locations that were found to have the Legionnaires' bacteria in them. Now we have a virtual town hall tomorrow, August 12th, at 6 PM through Senator Cordell Cleare's office and in partnership with community boards 9, 10, and 11. It's a Zoom call, and it's been sent out to different buildings. This is a very late response given the severity of this outbreak, since remembering when and it's always been around this time of year, the heat, et cetera, et cetera, and the tanks not being inspected. The last outbreaks, smaller than, were 2019 and 2021.

Matt Katz: Ed, in those last outbreaks, did you get a text from the city for more information, "Come to this Zoom"? What was the outreach like?

Ed: Yes, there was some notification outreach through maybe the community boards and the community boards to the community in general. Then, some kind of Zoom posting or maybe the management offices of the different buildings, the landlords reached out to the tenants like that. That's the way we usually receive our information, like through a group, a building-wide WhatsApp chat, or something like that. I'm looking at a flyer right now from Senator Cordell Cleare's office, and it's given the scan code to be there and the Zoom stuff. That's for tomorrow at 6:00. Again, my previous recollection of the responses happened a lot sooner and a lot quicker and a lot less people having suffered the deaths or infections.

Matt Katz: Are you personally concerned about your proximity to these water towers being in the neighborhood, where this is a hotspot?

Ed: Absolutely. It seems spot on for government hiding that you wouldn't say, "Hey, you're walking past--" If I was walking past a bee's nest that needed to be removed by the city, they would say, "125th Street and Fifth Avenue has a hornet's nest or something like that. Be aware." Again, so why not tell me there's a giant tower that's been cited for having Legionnaires'? "These are the locations. Mask up, be careful. Yes, water vapor. This is airborne now."

Again, why not tell me the areas that are infected or possibly where I'm at risk at? If I'm elderly, if I have emphysema or some kind of autoimmune, or some kind of compromise, I don't want to go shopping at the supermarket that's part of the building where the tower has been notified. It just seems litigious, and almost, it seems wrong that they're not telling us the locations where these have been found. I mean, [crosstalk] [inaudible 00:25:32]

Matt Katz: Thank you, Ed. I appreciate it. Stay safe.

Ed: Yes, thank you.

Matt Katz: Caroline, any reaction to Ed's concerns and comments there in terms of just the outreach or lack thereof from the city regarding the specifics of this?

Caroline Lewis: Yes. I think, certainly, city council members have started raising concerns about the public health messaging around this outbreak. There's now going to be a city council hearing on the outbreak next month to look at both the public health messaging and whether the regulations around cooling towers are doing what they're supposed to do, whether they're being followed properly, whether they're still adequate, whether they're being enforced.

I think public health messaging is definitely a big piece of it. I think the city health department is known as being really good at investigating diseases. Of course, knowing the right amount of information to give people and how to disseminate it is always a difficult thing. Actually, I'm not positive what their messaging looked like in past outbreaks. I would have to go back and look, but certainly, I think that's something that people are raising concerns about.

Matt Katz: Sure. We have a pulmonary doctor on the line, Joaquin in the Bronx. Hi, Joaquin. Thanks for calling in.

Joaquin: Hi, good morning. I was calling more to answer the question from a previous caller about masking and its role in Legionella pneumonia. We don't recommend masking in Legionella as a way of prevention because it's a waterborne illness, it's a waterborne bacteria. It's mostly seen from our water towers, also seen in people who are exposed to soil and gardening, and that's why we see it mostly in these times of years.

This is really a public health issue. Having a strong public health infrastructure is most important because once you identify an outbreak, it's imperative then to have decontamination of those water sources. That's really the most important in Legionella. We also don't generally, because it's not person-to-person transmission, recommend quarantining these patients because it's exceedingly rare to be able to transmit Legionella pneumonia or Legionnaires' disease from person to person. I hope that information helps for the caller [crosstalk] [inaudible 00:27:59]

Matt Katz: Yes, that's very helpful, and we appreciate that. Then, is there any precautions that people who live in the area, who live in Harlem, might want to take while walking the streets?

Joaquin: Not generally. It's very difficult-- This is more of once we identify where we have people who are coming positive for Legionnaires', it's so important for our public health system then to take the necessary measures for water decontamination, for identification and decontamination. It's not what we're most familiar with, COVID, where it's person-to-person transmission. This is really water aerosolized. Just imagine wearing a mask while taking a shower. It wouldn't really work. I hope that helps.

Matt Katz: It does help. Thank you so much for calling in. On the decontamination front, what happens when the Legionella bacteria is discovered in a building's cooling system? Several people have been texting asking about that. How do you clean this stuff? Joe, Caroline, do you guys know?

Joe Hong: Yes. Basically, once it's detected, there'-- I believe that most building owners use some form of chlorine to disinfect the tanks. The city requires building owners to take that kind of action within 24 hours.

Matt Katz: They do what? They get in there?

Joe Hong: You know what, I'm not sure what the actual physical process is, but I believe they basically inject chlorine into the water so that it's circulating through the system.

Caroline Lewis: Yes. My understanding is that part of the issue also is about stagnant water, that there's basically a process of disinfecting and flushing systems both regularly and as part of a remediation process when Legionella is detected. Although I will echo that I don't know the play-by-play of how it's cleaned out. Just to repeat again what I said earlier, the city says that they found Legionella in 11 towers in Harlem and that those already have had this initial remediation process, where they said, "Hey, your building has Legionella and you have to disinfect it and take these steps within 24 hours." They said that that's been completed for those buildings. We still have to confirm that one of those buildings was the actual culprit here.

The city has basically insinuated that this should be addressed, that the source of the problem should be addressed at this point. Just to echo what people said before, I think it is frustrating for people to not feel like they can individually take some kind of precaution. I think that's part of why it's so important here that the regulations are the ones that are going to make the biggest difference and that they're being followed properly. I've spoken to experts on Legionella prevention who have said that the city and state really do have these nation-leading laws around Legionella prevention and Legionnaires' prevention. It's really the human factor of whether people are complying with them that is the issue.

Matt Katz: A couple of points of clarification I want to make. A caller points out that we're talking about water cooling towers and not just water towers; they're not the same thing. I just wanted to point that out in case I misspoke there. We also can say we had a call earlier talking about a virtual town hall meeting. Just want to make sure we have that right. Senator Cordell Cleare. That's going to be tonight at six o'clock, and we will put a link to that in the segment page on the Brian Lehrer Show website at WNYC.org.

If people want to go to that meeting to learn more information, they can do that. Another question for you guys from a couple of people texting and calling in. Does it matter if the water is warm or cool for the Legionella to grow? I know, Joe, you had mentioned climate change could be a factor here. Could climate change making the water warm be a factor in the spreading?

Caroline Lewis: That's actually something I've spoken to several experts on Legionella about, and yes, I think the amount of Legionnaires' disease has increased over the past couple of decades. One of the theories is that climate change is a factor. Temperatures are rising. Legionella needs warm, humid temperatures to grow in stagnant water. There are certainly other regional factors. In New York, there's a lot of sediment in the water, and that can serve as a food source for Legionella.

There was one interesting theory in a paper that was published by researchers at the University of Albany last year, which is that we've successfully reduced the amount of sulfur dioxide in the air in recent decades as part of the Clean Air Act and efforts to be environmentally conscious. That's a good thing generally for human health and animal health. The theory is that less acidic air might be allowing Legionella to live longer. Again, this is a theory that people are continuing to investigate. There is research into why is Legionnaires' becoming so much more common.

Joe Hong: Yes. I'll just add to that, at a basic level, these cooling towers work by helping the air conditioning systems of buildings circulate water, and that water absorbs the heat from the building. When that water returns to the cooling tower, if it's just sitting there, Legionella bacteria can grow to dangerous levels within two weeks, which again makes it so important for building owners to be regularly testing this water. Because if there's a pump broken and the water's not circulating as it's supposed to be, it just becomes a hotbed for this bacteria. Public experts agree that it's unreasonable to expect the city to be the one that is just doing all the testing.

Matt Katz: Guys, we have the health commissioner calling in. Dr. Michelle Morris, New York City Health Commissioner, thank you for calling in and maybe clarifying or adding some information to what we're talking about here. Hi, there.

Dr. Michelle Morris: Good morning. Thank you so much for covering this issue. I'd love to share a couple of things. I apologize, I can't stay too long, but I really appreciate that you are trying to get the word out to all of your listeners across New York City about how important it is right now that the people in the five zip codes in Central Harlem where our Legionella cluster is happening and where our extensive investigation is happening, need to be on high alert in case they have any flu-like symptoms, and they need to see a medical professional immediately.

Then I also just want to clarify a few things. I'd be happy to come on the show in the future and speak more with some of the specific technical details that weren't fully addressed in some of the questions that came up today. The second message I just want to share is that we have been doing our best to hit the patients in Central Harlem and get the word out to New Yorkers in the language that they prefer in the locations that they prefer. That includes me actually spending quite a bit of time last week on the ground in Central Harlem, flyering, talking to community members, doing a press conference, doing several media interviews, and many people on my team.

We have an incredible team of expert inspectors, community health workers who are experts in understanding this. That team has really been on the ground in Central Harlem to get the message out. The final piece I want to clarify is the reason that we have yet to release the building locations again is because of this concern that we'd be giving people a false sense of security before our investigation is really fully complete.

I want to make that very clear that it's not by any means us trying to not share important information. In fact, our concern is that if we give specific building addresses, people may be either too concerned or not concerned enough if they're not around those specific buildings. All five zip codes in Central Harlem are really, really important to be engaged and to get this message. We don't want to focus in a couple of blocks. All five zip codes are really important. I just want to share those messages.

Matt Katz: Thank you so much.

Dr. Michelle Morris: Again, I'd be happy to come on in the future. Thank you.

Matt Katz: Great, great. Can you just tell us the zip codes? Dr. Morris, are you still there? Oh, we lost Dr. Morris. She said Central Harlem and the zip codes, and I imagine that that information should be on the city website. Those zip codes, Caroline, do you think--?

Caroline Lewis: I can say the zip codes.

Matt Katz: Okay, great. Please do.

Caroline Lewis: It's 10027, 10030, 10035, 10037, and 10039 is the zip codes that they're zooming in on.

Matt Katz: Very good. Thank you for that. And thanks to the health commissioner for the unexpected call to get some clarification, more information, and certainly Brian and the team here will be continuing to follow this, and I know the newsroom will be as well. Caroline Lewis, healthcare reporter for WNYC and Gothamist. Joe Hong, investigative data reporter for WNYC and Gothamist. Caroline, Joe, thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing all this with us. I appreciate it.

Caroline Lewis: Yes. Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having us on.

Joe Hong: Thank you, Matt.

 

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