Title: The Nuts and Bolts of Voting in New York and New Jersey

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. By the way, here's a tiny little addendum to that Washington Post conversation we just had with Bob Woodward. Listener texts, "In my opinion, people shouldn't be canceling their Washington Post subscriptions. They should cancel their Amazon subscriptions and stop doing business with Amazon to really send a message to Bezos." Interesting thought from a listener that I thought I would pass along making that distinction.

Now a practical guide to voting in New York and New Jersey for those of you who haven't done it yet. We'll take stories from those of you who have, with tips to make sure your vote gets registered properly. We know that sometimes over the years, voters have had to contend with long lines, confusing instructions, last-minute polling place changes, things like that. We'll let you know now what to do if you run into any of those issues, and also just go over some of what's on the ballot to know to vote for one thing or another. There are still some things to know about mail-in ballots and the remaining days of early voting, as well as Election Day itself.

Joining us now are two champions of local democracy. We have Susan Lerner, executive director of Common Cause New York, and Henal Patel, director of the Democracy and Justice Program at the New Jersey Institute for Social Justice. They're here to answer your questions and clear up any lingering confusion. Even though they're from New York and New Jersey in particular, we can also take on some voting issues from other states.

Hello, Connecticut. Hello, nearby swing state of Pennsylvania, or anyone else. I know rules are different in different states, but some of these things are also common to different states but affect the swing states. 212-433-WNYC with your stories or questions about getting that vote registered. 212-433-9692. Susan Lerner, Henal Patel, welcome back to WNYC.

Susan Lerner: Delighted to be here, Brian.

Henal Patel: Yes. Thank you so much for having us.

Brian Lehrer: Millions of Americans have already cast their ballots in this election. I see that in New Jersey. These figures from all over the country are so staggering on early voting this year. In New Jersey, more than a million people have voted early already. Yesterday, the New York City Board of Elections, and that's just in the city, said that more than 600,000 people have already voted early in the five boroughs. So, Susan, let's start with you in New York. How's early voting going so far?

Susan Lerner: Early voting is going very smoothly. We've had virtually no complaints about it. It's doing exactly what we expected it to do, Brian, when we advocated for New York to adopt early voting. It's giving voters more opportunity to choose when it's most convenient for them to be able to vote, and it takes pressure off Election Day. We all remember unbelievably long lines for presidential elections in New York City and elsewhere across the state. With early voting, we distribute voters over a longer time period, so we have fewer lines and fewer people trying to cram through that 16-hour portal on Election Day. It's working just the way we hoped that it would.

Brian Lehrer: Henal, in New Jersey, how would you assess the state of early voting in the 2024 election?

Henal Patel: In one word, I would say enthusiastic. We've had such a huge show of participation. Obviously, our vote-by-mail number returns are high. In New Jersey, we do have a vote-by-mail ballot, so no excuse absentee voting. You could even become part of the default list. If you sign up one year and say you want to just be on the vote-by-mail ballot list going forward, you can be. You have a number of voters who use that and love it, it's so convenient, but we also have a tremendous show for early in-person voting this year. We are seeing actually lines across the state, which is one thing people are concerned about, but I will say it is because there's enthusiasm for early voting.

It's also because this is our first election. A presidential election with early in-person voting in New Jersey. The law was passed in early 2021. The Institute, our partners, we supported it. We're so excited about it. Like Susan says, it's such a great option for voters. It's convenient. It helps with crowds on Election Day. Having a longer period is so important. This is our first presidential election year with it. I think everybody, election officials, us, the public, are all learning what early in-person voting looks like in New Jersey in a high-turnout election.

Brian Lehrer: You talked about the lines, Henal. In the swing state next door, Pennsylvania, there's a lawsuit now from the Trump campaign over the lines for early voting. In Bucks County, Pennsylvania, they're calling it voter suppression from a day when the lines were so long they cut off people getting in line at all after a certain time before the polling place was supposed to close. I don't know if you're familiar with that, or what you think the practices and policies in a long line situation when there are only so many staff members, and the early voting day does end at a certain hour. What's best practice there, if you have a take?

Susan Lerner: Brian--

Henal Patel: I--

Susan Lerner: Oh. Go ahead.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Susan, you want to take this one?

Susan Lerner: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to jump in. Go ahead, Henal.

Henal Patel: No, no. Go ahead, Susan.

Susan Lerner: Well, I was going to say, first of all, it's unclear to me who actually closed the lines. There's a lot of disinformation about what was going on in Bucks County. What we do know is that in New York, once you are online before the polling place is set to close-- which here, for instance, in New York City this coming weekend, early voting goes until 5:00 PM. If you're online at 4:59, you get to vote. That's the law in New York, and that is exactly what we see happening throughout the state. You get online, you get to vote.

Brian Lehrer: In New Jersey, Henal?

Henal Patel: I'll echo that. It is a little unclear the facts of the situation in Bucks County on who exactly was turning anyone away. I, like Susan, won't comment on the specifics of the case there. The law is here. If you are online when polls close, and that includes on early voting, they shouldn't be turning you away, and you will be able to cast your ballot. Long lines are a concern, and it is something we're dealing with. I will say we're hoping for more places in the future. It is a issue in terms of making sure we have enough poll workers, enough staff, and make sure that we can probably handle the crowds that are coming in.

I will say all around the state of New Jersey, the lines are moving. They are moving. The governor himself had to stand on a line for-- I think he said about 40, 45 minutes. The line is moving. You're around a bunch of voters who are really excited to be able to cast their ballot. It also varies. I went to my early voting state in the afternoon on Monday and I didn't face a line. It varies a little bit. We anticipate we will see them on the weekend, but just be prepared. You do have options.

You can also go on Election Day when we will have a lot more polling places open, so you have that option as well. Know that you have your rights. We can go into that a little bit, what your rights are, to make sure your ballot is cast.

Brian Lehrer: I'll just insert that I'm glad you mentioned that there'll be a lot more polling places open on Election Day. Just as a reminder to people who are going to vote early today or over the weekend, that it's not necessarily the hyperlocal polling place that you voted at on Election Day in the past. There are fewer early-voting polling places, so make sure you find out where yours is. Susan, what did you want to add?

Susan Lerner: I wanted to add that there's a very cool thing on the New York City Board of Elections website, which is vote.nyc. If you're planning to vote early, particularly this coming weekend when we think a lot of people will take advantage of early voting, you can go to vote.nyc and they will tell you what the wait time is at any early voting location, of which there are over 150 in New York City. You check what your early voting location is. If you're a New York City voter, you check the website. You can see, oh, no line. Great. I'm going to go now. Or you can see, oh, there seems to be a 20-minute wait. Maybe I'll check back later this afternoon.

Henal Patel: I love that. We don't have that in New Jersey, but I'm about to put it on the list of things to advocate for.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call. Here's Raul in East Elmhurst. Raul, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Raul: Yes. Good morning, Brian. Wonderful to be on your show. Thank you, everybody, and your guests. I had a wonderful experience. I went to vote with my mother, who's disabled. I have to use a Hoyer lift to get her out of bed and a wheelchair. The elevator worked. Everything was fine. One thing that I didn't tell your screener was our home attendant is Dominican. She just became a citizen. She was very excited about voting. I got to show her a little bit because she was able to go in with my mom, and she was able to vote on her own. I had a good experience. There was no waiting time, and I encourage everybody to go on the early voting.

Brian Lehrer: That's a wonderful story, Raul, and that's so great, supporting your disabled mom and shouting out the home health aide. Susan, usually when we open the phones on a segment like this, what we get is complaints. We've got a few that we'll get to, but isn't it wonderful to hear a story about everybody helping everybody?

Susan Lerner: It is absolutely wonderful, and it's exactly why we advocated for early voting, so that Raul knew that he had the time to get his mother up into the wheelchair. If there was some tie-up, that she wouldn't be disenfranchised. It's early voting working the way it should. Brian, when we go out to early voting polling places, I would say nine times out of 10, what we're hearing are delighted voters who come out and say, "Wow, this was really easy. I'm so glad that it exists."

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Let's take another call. Go ahead. Henal, you want to add something?

Henal Patel: I want to echo that so many people really enjoy their early voting experience. It's so convenient. They can go in, vote, and it allows folks to work with their own schedule. I had someone reach out. He's a doctor. They just had a baby a couple of months ago and this is their first outing, and they were able to do early voting. He's on shift on Tuesday, and he said they wouldn't have been able to manage to go vote in person, which is what he wanted to do without early voting. It just works for so many different people. It helps you help your family who might not be able to go on Tuesday, and it works around your schedule.

Brian Lehrer: Maybe more problematic. This text from a listener who writes, "When I voted, I was told my signature didn't match the sample they had. I had to do it several times, and by the end, I was so nervous. It looked totally unlike my signature, but they eventually accepted it. Do your guests have any insight into how votes are verified?" Susan, anything on the New York side?

Susan Lerner: Well, that's exactly the procedure that should be followed. We don't require voter ID in our state. We think that that's appropriate because of the difficulty for some people to get voter ID. The verification for eligibility is the signature, and it's appropriate for the poll worker to take a look and make a determination. People shouldn't be nervous about it. You should just take a deep breath and write out your signature again because this is the appropriate way to check that eligible voters are voting.

Brian Lehrer: I'm always amazed these days when I use my credit card and sign on one of those electronic things with my finger. I don't think it looks like my signature when I write with a pen, but it never gets rejected. I don't know. Maybe they're using those things at the polling places now and people are getting confused.

Laura in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Laura.

Laura: Yes, hi. Can you hear me okay?

Brian Lehrer: Yes, I can.

Laura: Okay. Terrific. Thank you so much for having this call-in. I have such mother's guilt I can't stand it. I am registered. I absentee voted, because I'm a poll worker, on Tuesday. My youngest son registered absentee ballot because he is in college in upstate New York. My older son registered and he didn't get his absentee ballot. He's in Vermont. Is there any recourse? I know we're past the October 26th deadline. Is there any recourse besides his dad going to get him on Election Day, which seems impractical?

Susan Lerner: A couple of things. One, check with the 1-866-OUR-VOTE hotline, which can also give you advice. What I would say is if your son has requested an absentee ballot, he can designate either you or his dad to go to your local Board of Elections, pick up his ballot and send it to him. He can send it back to you and then you can drop it off. I did that for my son when he was living in Beijing, China, working there, and that way he was able to cast his ballot. It's cumbersome, but you can pick up his absentee.

Brian Lehrer: Laura, I hope that's helpful. What's that toll-free number again, for anybody who needs it for any aspect of voting?

Susan Lerner: It's 1-866-OUR-VOTE. It's the Election Protection national hotline.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a follow-up--

Henal Patel: I'm going to add to that.

Brian Lehrer: Henal, go ahead.

Henal Patel: Sorry. To the hotline. I want to stress to everyone listening it is a nonpartisan hotline-

Susan Lerner: Thank you.

Henal Patel: -so please feel free to call Election Protection. It is, as Susan said, the national hotline, but there are also state organizations. Like in New Jersey, us, the Institute, and a number of our partners. We address the issues that people are calling in on. You will get good information, and it is completely nonpartisan.

Susan Lerner: That's the English hotline. There is also a Spanish hotline, 888-VE-Y-VOTA. There's a Asian language hotline, 888-API-VOTE, or an Arabic language hotline, 844-YALLA-US.

Brian Lehrer: A couple of follow-ups asking different versions of the same question regarding the signature and matching the signature. As your voter ID listener writes, "My signature has definitely changed since I was 18." I guess that's when they registered to vote. "Should I update it, and can I update it?" Henal, do you know that one?

Henal Patel: You can update it. Also just know that-- It's a reality that everyone's signature does change from time to time as we age, as we mature a little bit. There is guidance provided. This isn't just for in-person voting, vote-by-mail as well. Vote-by-mail, in particular, you have to sign your vote-by-mail ballot. It's sent to the county. They verify those. As Susan said, this is a security measure. They verify those ballots to make sure it is you casting your vote, and they check that against the signature on record.

They do have some training guidance available to how to check those, and that includes information about how signatures do change a little bit. They evolve a little bit. They are trained to make sure to check that type of thing.

That said, if your signature is very different, particularly on vote-by-mail or provisional ballots, they could nominally reject it. What they do in New Jersey is we have a pretty solid cure period, where they will send you a cure letter. Please be on the lookout for it if you are a vote-by-mail voter or if you had to vote by provisional ballot. They will tell you, "Hey, we got your ballot. Your signature doesn't quite look the same as we have on your record. Can you confirm this was you voting?"

The voter has to just sign that and send it back, and then they will update your record with that new signature if you verify that this was actually your vote. They don't throw it away. You need to be on the lookout for that in your mail.

Brian Lehrer: Deborah in Morristown, you're on WNYC. Hi, Deborah.

Deborah: Hi, Brian. I love your show. I'm a listener for many years. Another benefit. First of all, I was able to vote with my soon-to-be 93-year-old mom in the same location. We're in the same county, but we're in different locations usually. The thing that stood out to me was all of the families on a Saturday with children of all ages, and lots of them saying "We're starting her early. We're starting him early." Children asking questions, parents explaining the process. It was like a little educational session for children. I thought that was a wonderful benefit of early voting because normally they might be in school or it might be too busy during the week. Shout out for early voting for our children as well.

Brian Lehrer: Deborah, thank you. Yes, educational and inspirational having that experience. So many people remember going with your parents when you were little to the voting booth, going inside the curtain when they had curtains, all of that stuff. Henal, I see that New Jersey moved to what's called the universal mail-in ballot system in 2020 at the height of the COVID pandemic, meaning anybody in the state can request a mail-in ballot. This is not like Oregon, which is all the way at the other extreme, where I don't believe they even have in-person voting, except you can go in person to drop off your mail ballot. Can all New Jersey voters still apply to vote by mail if that's their preference?

Henal Patel: Our law is that it is completely no excuse. You can apply for a vote-by-mail ballot. Not only that, you can apply to just be on the vote-by-ballot list. For all future elections, they will send you a vote-by-mail ballot, so you don't have to worry. You could vote in your own home, and you can make that a learning opportunity with your kids. You could do it around your kitchen table.

That said, two things to keep in mind. For next week's election, you can still apply for a vote-by-mail ballot, but now you have to do it by Monday at 3:00 PM in person at your county clerk's office, and then pick up the vote-by-mail ballot yourself. It's just too late to apply by mail and get the ballot by mail. We're too close to Election Day. That's one thing to keep in mind. The other thing is, is that if you are on the vote-by-ballot list, you can go vote in person.

Let's just say you were on the list and you were supposed to get the ballot or you didn't realize you were on the vote-by-mail ballot list or you just haven't had time to return it and want to go vote in person. You can, but they won't let you vote on a machine. You will have to vote by provisional ballot. Please know that provisional ballots are safe, secure, and great. They do count them. Again, as a security measure, they verify that hey, you didn't vote by mail. You didn't vote otherwise. You are an eligible voter. Then once they check that, they do count that ballot.

Brian Lehrer: Susan, in New York?

Susan Lerner: Well, happily we have very parallel procedures. We have a cure procedure for our vote-by-mail and absentee ballots. We have a cure procedure for the affidavit ballot. A provisional ballot in New York is called an affidavit ballot. It is indeed the case that you cannot vote on the machines if you requested a vote-by-mail or absentee ballot, but you will be able to fill out an affidavit ballot. What we tell people, if there's a problem at the polling place and you're not able to vote on the machines, always ask for an affidavit ballot. They have to give you one. It is your right to vote provisionally.

If there was some problem and you're a registered voter and they don't have an absentee or a vote-by-mail ballot from you, your affidavit ballot will count. In New York, they examine and count all eligible affidavit ballots. A lot of disinformation about provisional ballots. People should be assured provisional or affidavit ballots get examined and counted in New York.

Brian Lehrer: We have one minute left in the segment. Susan, I just want to say out loud - and you can echo it if you want, and then, Henal, I'll give you a shot - that in New York at least, there are ballot questions in addition to candidates. We did a long segment earlier in the week on the ballot questions in New York. Don't forget to turn over your ballot so you don't miss the ballot questions. Henal, do you have those in New Jersey this year?

Henal Patel: We do not have any statewide ballot questions. You might have some local ones. If you are voting, particularly by mail, turn it around just in case, but we do not have any statewide ballot initiatives this year. Brian--

Brian Lehrer: The local ones would appear on the back just like in New York.

Henal Patel: Depending on the county.

Brian Lehrer: Okay.

Henal Patel: Depends on the county. Sometimes they fit it in in the front, but sometimes it is on the back, so check that.

Brian Lehrer: Susan, that last thought.

Susan Lerner: Okay. I want your listeners to know that there are some very reliable resources for information about the props. The New York City Bar Association, nycbar.org, has a very good discussion of the myths and disinformation that's been bandied about about Prop 1. Nycvotes.org, which is the Campaign Finance Board, has an online voter guide that sets forth the pros and con positions for the New York City propositions. Common Cause has our position on our website, commoncause.org, New York and New-York.

Brian Lehrer: Great. I'll just say as we close this up, something maybe for both of you to follow up on. We seem to have touched a nerve with that question about the signatures not matching. Our text message feed is really blowing up with people with signatures not matching stories. I don't know if that was on your radar before, but that might be something for both of you to follow up on to find out how much of a problem it actually is if a lot of people's attempts to vote are getting turned away because signatures that are from the same person don't actually match. Just a little tip based on the response we're getting from listeners.

We leave it there with Susan Lerner, executive director of Common Cause New York, and Henal Patel, director of the Democracy and Justice Program at the New Jersey Institute for Social Justice. Happy Election Day. Happy election season. Thank you both very much for joining us.

Susan Lerner: Thank you, Brian.

Henal Patel: Thank you so much.

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