Title: The NJ Governor's Race Heats Up

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Brian: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We begin today with a new weekly commitment from this show. From now till Election Day, we will do a segment on the New Jersey governor's race every Thursday, like we're doing one on the New York City mayoral race every Wednesday. Jerseyans, mark down Thursdays in your mental calendars, and all you campaign consultants and everyone else involved, mark down Thursdays in your actual calendars.

We are New York and New Jersey Public Radio, as I say at the top of the hour, legal ID. We know New Jersey tends to be a news desert, as they call it, largely dependent on media from the two big markets out of state, New York and Philadelphia, and so we're adding this regularly scheduled campaign segment with so much at stake every Thursday on this show.

Our guest today is the great Jersey journalist, David Cruz, senior correspondent for NJ Spotlight News, which means public television in New Jersey. He moderates their Chat Box and Reporters Roundtable segments. He's been there since 2011. As his bio page notes, he's covered New Jersey's biggest stories for almost 30 years, including as a moderator of public affairs programs on WNYC, which I will add includes that David Cruz has been a guest host of this show. David, it's always great to have you back in the guest chair, and welcome back to WNYC.

David: Thursdays in Jersey, man. I love it.

Brian: [laughs] Oh, great. You gave me that rhyme. I can use it for the rest of the campaign. Let's begin with the latest 30-second commercials from Mikie Sherrill and Jack Ciattarelli, and we'll take it from there. Here's a Ciattarelli ad that takes aim at his Democratic opponent and raises a key issue in a very specific way.

Ciattarelli: We all know it. New Jersey's a mess, and all Mikie Sherrill wants to talk about is President Trump. Come on. What does the president have to do with rising property taxes and higher electricity bills? New Jersey's a mess because out-of-touch politicians like Phil Murphy and Mikie Sherrill care more about pronouns in sanctuary cities than they do solving our problems. That changes when I'm governor. I'll lower electricity bills, cut and cap property taxes, and keep our communities safe. Folks, it's time to fix New Jersey. When I'm governor, we will.

Brian: That Jack Ciattarelli ad currently running on TV and online. Here's a current Mikie Sherrill ad, which you can almost hear as a response, that says, "No, I'm not making this campaign about Trump, but also about utility bills and other affordability questions." As she often does, you'll have to picture this, Congresswoman Sherrill reminds voters of her background as a Navy helicopter pilot, as in the opening image in this spot.

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Congresswoman Sherrill: The Navy taught me in a crisis, you either find a way or make one.

Promoter 1: For Governor, Navy helicopter pilot Mikie Sherrill, as a 20% utility rate hike crushes New Jersey families.

Congresswoman Sherrill: Day one as governor, I'm declaring a state of emergency on utility costs. Using emergency powers to end these rate hikes and drive down your bills.

Promoter 1: Mikie Sherrill knows a cost crisis demands bold leadership.

Congresswoman Sherrill: I'll stand up to anyone and everyone for New Jersey families.

Brian: Now we've heard current ads from Democrat Mikie Sherrill and Republican Jack Ciattarelli. David Cruz from NJ Spotlight News is our guest. David, here's where I want to begin, and listeners might have noticed it. They both mentioned utility rates in those commercials. How much are utility rates going up or becoming a sell issue for voters as they consider their choices for governor?

David: It's been a slow burn. That issue particularly started in the spring to become an issue when it became clear that people were going to see at least a 25% hike in their electricity rates, most specifically. Then the Republicans grabbed it and attached it to the affordability issue. The Democrats were saddled with a situation that was really beyond their control because of the independent authorities that are involved in the process of setting these rates. They got saddled with it, and people now into the summer as their utility rates went through the roof because of everybody using the air conditioners and whatnot.

It became a big issue, and now everybody talks about it at one point or another, when you're having a conversation about what's hurting you in the pocketbook. It's the increase in rates. Some people going from $200 a month to $600 a month. That's a jump. It's been something that has resonated with voters. Republicans have used it as an issue. Democrats have tried to react by making $100 of credit available to some and then allowing you to postpone paying the increase for a few months, but not eliminating the increase per se, but just allowing you to wait three months to pay it.

Brian: New Jersey listeners, this can be one of the things that you call in about on this segment, our first weekly Thursdays in Jersey, as David Cruz just tagged it, the Jersey Thursdays Governor's Race segment that we will continue through Election Day. Help us report this part of the story. How much have your utility bills been going up, and what would you like the next governor to do about them? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Call or text on that or anything else about the governor's race.

We'll talk about other aspects, too. On your utility bills and what you would like the next governor, whoever it is, what you would like the next governor to do about them, if you have an opinion about that, 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. Is there a Democratic and Republican way to rein in utility rates? You just mentioned a couple of things that they're talking about, but do they have different approaches fundamentally?

David: Yes. Mikie Sherrill says that she will set a state of emergency and freeze rates and increases. The governor, Phil Murphy, a fellow Democrat, when it was mentioned to him as a plan, he was skeptical. He said, "I'm not really sure how you do that because the rates are not set in the state legislature or in the front office in Trenton. They're set by these other agencies, the Board of Public Utilities and PJM, which is a supplier of multi-state power. All those rates are set by availability, et cetera.

It's a lot like when the price of gasoline goes up a dollar all of a sudden. It's because of the potential availability of gasoline. It's like that on the electric side. There's nothing that really a governor can do to regulate the way they do their business. It's questionable whether or not her state of emergency declaration would have any impact in that regard, but that [crosstalk]

Brian: It's almost like a Trump question. He's declaring state of emergencies all over the place on many things that either are or aren't actual states of emergency and trying to rein in the independence of things that have and are supposed to have some insulation from politics, like maybe in this case, where the utility rates come from. Then there's going to be a question of executive power if she tries to do that, which might wind up in court. Do you think that's wrong?

David: No, I agree with you. It's funny, maybe not funny, but this Trump doctrine of how to govern with the use of executive power and even ignoring courts, or necessarily not being afraid of courts, is something that is creeping into governments, both local and statewide. That's probably a good conversation for another day. You see Mikie Sherrill suggesting it there, and then with Jack Ciattarelli, when you ask the question of how are they going to handle this, he wants to fire everybody.

He wants to get rid of the Board of Public Utilities and get a Board of Public Utilities that will follow the Ciattarelli ideas, which have not really been put out there very much other than to say that he's against offshore wind. That's how he would approach it. He would reappoint or appoint new members to the Board of Public Utilities and then force PJM, the supplier, to cut their rates. A lot of these solutions are very theoretical.

Brian: Let's take a phone call on this. Priya in Milburn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Priya. Thank you for calling in.

Priya: Of course. I would like to see the next governor focus completely on building our renewable infrastructure. Currently, we're just in this stranglehold with PSEG, natural gas, JCPL. It's completely possible to really build our infrastructure on wind. I think that's what the Biden administration was trying to do, to build out our infrastructure here. I think that's what we really need to focus on. I think there's small examples of this going on in parts of our state. I think Steve Fulop was trying to do that in Jersey City. Other municipalities have also tried.

The problem is we have 565 towns doing 565 different things. There's no regional approach to anything, and that's another, I think, problem, the fact that there's no regional thinking, and that's why everyone complains about taxes being so high, because nobody wants to give up home rule. We have municipal governments that are doing fire and law enforcement for towns. Our town is about 20,000 people. We just need to think bigger, think a little bit more visionary, and it's possible. If it happens in other countries, if it happens in other states, why can't it happen in New Jersey?

Brian: More than 500 municipalities in the state of New Jersey, more than 600 school districts, I believe the number is. Priya, the Republicans will say, and David will tell us how much Ciattarelli is saying this explicitly, that the green energy transition, which you want to emphasize, and greenhouse gas emission limits are contributing to rising utility costs. Are you in the weeds enough to have a response to that?

Priya: It's complicated, of course, but I can give you an example. In our town, we've tried to do something called energy aggregation. Basically, it's you form a co-op with other municipalities, you increase your purchasing power for kilowatts. I'm simplifying this. You're basically then able to use your purchasing power to demand a lower price for energy. Many municipalities do this, where if you're large enough, then you could do it on your own, but if you're small, like ours, you have to go in with other municipalities, like we did it with a bunch of towns in Hunterdon County. At any rate, this is possible. This whole notion that we have to pay what we have to pay what JCPL tells us is a falsehood, in my view. I think that we can go in and-- It's absurd.

Brian: Priya, thank you very much for your call. David, is Ciattarelli campaigning on green energy is responsible to a large degree for the rising utility rates, and that's a battle here, and he and Sherrill disagree on green energy conversion?

David: Yes. The whole clean energy plan that Phil Murphy put up and hyped for most of his administration really fell apart last year when the offshore wind essentially died. You would think that the Democrats who control both houses of the legislature and the front office would have been able to make it possible with whatever regulatory relief was needed or incentives that may have been needed to get the industry going. They would have been able to do it. That was the time to do it, and they couldn't.

A lot of them had to do with market forces as well, and then the change of administration just made it impossible to do. I don't know how New Jersey is going to be able to get back on track in that regard. Ciattarelli has talked about high-tech alternatives, including nuclear, which is something we haven't heard from Sherrill about just yet. The Republicans in New Jersey have been talking up nuclear a lot, including wanting to reactivate a facility that was shuttered just a couple of years ago.

Brian: Does she oppose nuclear?

David: We haven't heard from her on that, or at least I haven't heard from her on that, to be honest, so I can't say that she does either way.

Brian: Getting back to those ads, Paul in Glen Rock is calling to respond to a particular thing that Ciattarelli mentioned in his ad and ask you a question about it. Paul, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Paul: Thank you for taking my call. It really struck me the line of cutting your real estate taxes 50%, which for me would be maybe about $8,000, sounds great, but that's how we fund our local schools. Is he planning to make up that money or just cut funding to education?

Brian: I'm not sure he said 50%, David. Have you heard that in that ad? He did say he'd cut your property taxes.

David: I didn't hear what--

Paul: I think he used 50%.

David: What's the question there? I'm sorry.

Brian: How is he proposing to cut property taxes by that much?

David: Oh, yes. He says he will-- When they talk about a shell game, it's a shell game, because it depends on whose taxes you're talking about. If the state comes in and mandates some sort of a tax cut on the municipality, somebody is going to have to backfill that, and the state is who's going to backfill that. Somebody's taxes are going to be responsible for filling whatever that municipality saves by some state-mandated local tax cut. You heard Priya's call, and Priya talked about the state of the state of New Jersey and why taxes are high. That's what is something that needs to be addressed by both parties, and both parties talk about encouraging consolidation, et cetera.

It has not been done beyond a few examples of small towns getting together to buy energy or road salt, but you haven't been able to see any big towns regionalize. It took Princeton, which was essentially a donut around a small Princeton township. It took them forever to consolidate. The savings have been not insignificant, but you could argue, was it all worth it to get there? Consolidation is what is going to be necessary to be able to bring some local costs down, and that includes education and so on. That takes you to the whole issue of education and how much the impact of our segregated schools is having on our local tax rate.

Brian: Just for the sake of accuracy and precision, we just re-listened to the Ciattarelli ad off the air, and he does not say 50%. He says, generally, he'll lower your property taxes. Maybe he said it elsewhere, but just to be accurate, he did not say it in that spot that we played. He does say in that ad that Sherrill is trying to make the race about Trump while he's focusing on New Jersey issues that more affect voters lives. The website Insider New Jersey has a headline that says Jack Ciattarelli's new TV ad devastatingly rebutted by previous Jack Ciattarelli TV ad. It includes the transcript of a spot he ran during the primary. We pulled that audio, and here it is.

Promoter 2: Ignore the BS. Only one candidate for governor earned President Trump's endorsement, Jack Ciattarelli. President Trump called Jack a winner who will fight tirelessly for New Jersey. Jack Ciattarelli, the Trump choice for governor.

Brian: David, maybe the politics here are obvious, and maybe they're ordinary in the Republican primary race, touting Trump's endorsement is helpful, appealing to the general electorate. It's not?

David: I think that's right. Obviously, in the primary, he had to attack to the right. In the general, I guess the strategy with Trump is when asked, he'll talk about it. He has a delicate dance about needing to support the president, and when it's not in Jersey's interest, I'll challenge the president. That's basically his take on Trump now. It's not attack to the center, but I guess the best way to describe it is answer when asked.

Brian: Here are a couple of utility bill numbers from some listeners who are chiming in. One says, "My parents live in New Orleans and have a house that's about the same size as mine. Their air conditioner runs pretty much all the time, all year, and their average monthly bill for gas and electricity is $150. Here in New Jersey, my average bill is $500."

Another one, Gloria in Montclair, "In July, I used exactly the same amount of electricity as the same period in 2024, and my bill was 35% higher. PSEG said there was a 30% rate increase, so I'm not sure why mine was 35%. In August, my usage was lower, but the bill was higher. I was told it was a result of increased demand, but a lot of that demand is supposedly from companies using AI and Bitcoin exchanges. They should pay more, and we need to build more renewable energy sources, wind, solar, and yes, beautiful windmills," says that listener.

How about that AI issue as increasing the demand? We certainly talked about on this show, and a lot of news organizations have been talking about the incredibly large demand for electricity it takes for AI at any level of capacity. Is that an issue in New Jersey, specifically, if you happen to know?

David: I haven't heard it as an issue. I think a lot of people find that really interesting, particularly when you consider that the governor is on a big AI push in Jersey. I haven't seen it anyway. Aside from some hardcore environmentalists who have noted it, I don't think it's entered the issue as far as this gubernatorial campaign yet.

Brian: When Ciattarelli tagged Sherrill with making the race about Trump, can you say how much Sherrill is campaigning on tying Ciattarelli to Trump, who has endorsed him?

David: It's 100%, because even when the event, let's say, is about affordability or electric prices or helping Main Street businesses, it always turns to Trump. These rallies, they're kind of campaign events. They're intended to suggest that, "Oh, here's the candidate amongst the people," but a lot of that is engineered. It's intended to give the impression that here's the candidate doing something on this particular issue on that particular day, but it really is mostly an opportunity to say Trump is the devil.

Brian: Can you get specific? What does Sherrill say will happen, in a Trump context, if Ciattarelli is elected? What kinds of Trump things might Ciattarelli enable that Sherrill might resist, if you have anything specific? Who does she argue would be hurt, and by contrast, who does he argue would be helped if he's in there enabling Trump in New Jersey?

David: From Sherrill's point of view, every outrage of the day from the federal administration, whether it be sweeps by ICE or military on the streets, particularly yesterday-- I don't know if we'll have a chance to talk about Baraka and Sherrill, but at yesterday's event--

Brian: We're going to play a clip in a few minutes of Baraka's endorsement yesterday, and why it came this late, and what it could mean. Go ahead.

David: The outrage of the day, the military in the streets in DC and threatened elsewhere, if it is specific to the event, doesn't matter because maybe it's a comment that the president made about abortion rights or immigration, even electricity prices. All of it is somehow tied to the Trump administration. This is still blue jersey, and Democrats are counting on their plurality. They've got an 800,000-vote advantage over Republicans here, and they are counting on those people being anti-Trump registration.

Brian: By registration, 850,000 more. New Jersey listeners, this is another way you might participate here in this segment. How much is support for or opposition to any of President Trump's policies a factor in your decision who to vote for in the governor's race? Here's who I would hope would call in on this, because many of you Democrats, many of you Republicans, we know you'll be voting for your party's candidate anyway. If you're a Republican who likes Trump, that's not news. If you're a Democrat who opposes Trump, that's not news.

Is anyone listening for whom the Trump factor makes the difference one way or another, and you might have gone the other way without it? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. We'll continue in a minute with David Cruz from NJ Spotlight and you on the New Jersey governor's race. Thursday is here on The Brian Lehrer Show from now till election day, including some interesting new voter registration context for this race. David was just referring to that advantage that Democrats have, but it's more complicated than that. Also, that newsworthy endorsement. Oh, and one non-endorsement that's also in the news today. 212-433-WNYC. Stay with us.

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Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we continue with our new weekly Thursday segment on the New Jersey governor's race. The Rolling Stones have Ruby Tuesday. We now have Jersey Thursdays, named about a half hour ago by our guest, David Cruz, and which I am already shamelessly stealing and will continue through Election Day. Remember, folks, we started our New York mayoral series on Wednesdays over the summer because that race has been continually intense with the four big-name candidates who did not take the summer off after the New York primary.

It's been a little more normal in New Jersey, where now that Labor Day has passed, the campaigns are kicking into a higher gear. We'll take your calls and texts and talk to guests about the race every Thursday through the election. 212-433-WNYC. Today, with David Cruz, senior correspondent for NJ Spotlight News, the public television service in the Garden State. David, I see you have a story posted yesterday called "Democrats lose ground in new voter registrations." How so?

David: It's been for several years now, Republicans have been beating Democrats in terms of new registrations to-- We talked about that 800,000 vote advantage that Democrats have. Just a few short years ago, that was a 1.1 million-vote advantage that they had. They've been getting creamed every month, and nobody in the Democratic Party, at least outwardly, seems to be too worried about it. That's the interesting thing that I took away from the reporting that we did on that.

Brian: Part of the context for this race is that Trump carried five more counties last year than he did in 2020 in New Jersey, in addition to the trend you cite in voter registration, still a plus for Democrats, but not by as much. One of the big issues last year was low Democratic turnout. Trump barely got more votes than he did in 2020, but many fewer Democrats showed up. Does the Sherrill campaign have a theory of why that was and how to motivate those voters back into the game?

David: I think the undercurrent in this campaign for most of us who are looking at it is, aside from the obvious party differences and the rhetorical differences, is this really a genuine lack of enthusiasm that has been seen from the Democratic side. Everybody's talking about it, needing to get people out. There's talk of an enthusiasm gap, whereas Ciattarelli's playing the happy warrior. This is his third time around, and he knows how to do it. He's really good retail politician. He's an agreeable enough fellow when you first meet him.

Whereas Sherrill has a different style. She's a member of Congress, and there's a certain formality to how she goes about the process. In the Democratic Party, there needs to be a little more informality and a little more personality to motivate the base because any Democrat is going to talk about progressive ideas. Mikie Sherrill and really her predecessor have showed a disconnect that has made it more difficult for them to relate to the base of the party: Blacks, Latinos, immigrants. There's a disconnect there and a resulting lack of enthusiasm. That's the prevailing observation about the campaign.

Brian: One listener texts, a Democratic listener text, "Democrats have learned nothing. Not Trump didn't work during last election, yet here we are." On that enthusiasm gap that you were just talking about and in what demographics, this brings us to the endorsement and another non-endorsement in the news today. The endorsement is of Sherrill by a major opponent in the Democratic primary. Remember, Newark Mayor Ras Baraka was also running for this nomination for governor. Here's a 30-second edit of moments from yesterday's endorsement event made by David's news organization, NJ Spotlight News.

Mayor Ras Baraka: I'm here endorsing the congresswoman for the governor of the state of New Jersey-

[applause]

Mayor Ras Baraka: -because that is our only pathway.

[applause]

Mayor Ras Baraka: That is our only direction. I'm encouraging people all over the state of New Jersey, those who came out for me, those who knocked on doors for me, those who were committed to this campaign, to be committed to this one.

Brian: David, was Mayor Baraka's endorsement ever in doubt? Why did it take so long? Maybe it was strategic to hold it back until the week of Labor Day, when more people are paying attention. What do you make of it?

David: It's a little bit of all of those things. At the end of the primary, people were like, "Oh, put Ras Baraka as the number two on the ticket because he was so great and he really had this great crossover appeal," et cetera, which, if you follow this stuff, you know that that would have been a disaster. It showed how much Ras Baraka has grown as a candidate. I said in a report yesterday that he has to be considered the favorite for the Democratic nomination for governor if Jack Ciattarelli wins in four years. How Ras Baraka supports Mikie Sherrill is the most important thing.

Sure, he wasn't going to endorse Jack Ciattarelli. That was never in doubt. It was never in doubt that he was going to specifically endorse Mikie Sherrill. There was the usual trading of stuff, support from a third party for a get-out-the-vote effort that the mayor's brother will lead and will be funded by a 501(c)(4). There's that. There's concessions on issues, but none of the really tough issues like civilian complaint review boards with subpoena power. They disagree on that. She has some tough language that she used the other day about youth incarceration. They're needing to be more. Increasing the number of jail units in the state of New Jersey is on the table for her, depending on what happens with crime.

They're not in great accord. If you look at the event yesterday, it was pretty perfunctory. Baraka can't give a bad speech. He expressed enthusiasm and a rationale for endorsing her, but you see their body language. He was standing next to her with his arm folded. I did not see them shake hands once. Who cares if they did or didn't? If you want to show support, you want to at least shake hands. It's going to be important to see if Baraka's enthusiasm matches the enthusiasm needed to get the base out for Mikie Sherrill in the fall.

Brian: I guess we should know that just yesterday, Baraka was accused of sexual harassment by a former Newark police officer. Interesting timing, including why not when he was actually a candidate. Do you have a take yet on how real it seems to be or implications, if any, for the power of his endorsement and whatever campaigning he does do for Mikie Sherrill?

David: I don't. It's just something that we're learning about in the last day or so. I don't know how much that's going to impact. I don't know how credible the charges are. Whenever you hear something like that, it gives you pause. There was no mention of it yesterday. We'll see, I guess, in the coming days what legs the story has, as it were.

Brian: On why Democrats didn't turn out as much last year. We have three different texts from three different phone numbers positing the same theory. One says, "Democrats sat out last year due to blind support of Israel." Another one says, "Democrats are sick of paying for genocide. There are 2-year-olds in Gaza who weighed 7 pounds at their deaths. Stop supporting a genocide, and the base will be motivated." A third one, "I'm likely not to vote for Mikie as she is for Gaza genocide." How much does your reporting indicate that that was a major issue, and what has Mikie Sherrill's relationship to support for Israel been?

David: I can say that, as it pertains to the last election, I don't know, aside from the most progressive of the progressives, that it was much of an issue that kept people home. Certainly part of it. I think the Democrats had a candidate who fizzled, and that had a lot to do with it. The times were terrible, still are kind of terrible. I think a lot of people were just like, "Who I vote for doesn't matter." I think that all of those had something to do with keeping people home.

As far as Israel as an issue in the campaign, I don't think that it's come up a lot. I can't say that I'm very well read on Mikie Sherrill's position, except that they're in the middle of the road, because I know that some of the base have criticized her support of Israel. It's not, from what I've seen, a big issue in this campaign.

Brian: Adrian in Wallington, who identifies as an independent. Adrian, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Adrian: Hello, Brian. First time caller, longtime listener.

Brian: Glad you're on.

Adrian: My position is, I'm not really keen on Jack. I feel like he's talking a lot of talk, and I feel that eventually he'll just be pushing for Trump's agenda in the state, especially in regards to ICE and the elimination of sanctuary cities.

Brian: Just for transparency, when you call yourself an independent, have you voted for some Democrats, some Republicans in the past?

Adrian: Yes, sir.

Brian: Adrian, thank you very much. An issue that he mentions is sanctuary cities, and that was also mentioned in the Ciattarelli ad that we played before. How different are they on that?

David: Very much an issue that Jack Ciattarelli has used. It was part of when he launched his campaign. It was part of when he announced his lieutenant governor candidate, law and order, and stopping the sanctuary cities and forcing local police to help ICE in the apprehension of undocumented individuals. Very much where he's coming from. Mikie Sherrill is on the other side of that. More sanctuary cities doesn't-- She supports the current administration's policy of not cooperating with ICE when it comes to detention of locals. They're pretty much on their parties when it comes to that particular issue.

It's an issue that has been increasing in importance in New Jersey because it's a large immigrant population here and a very active pro-immigrant groups here that have been keeping it in front of the news. Of course, Ras Baraka, we were talking about, was arrested in a demonstration outside of Delaney Hall Detention Center in Newark. That issue has cut both ways because the Republicans have been using it to show this lawlessness, and they show this fracas that occurred outside of Delaney Hall as an example of how Democrats deal with immigration.

Brian: I want to touch one more issue briefly and then get to that non-endorsement. I said we would also mention, in addition to the endorsement from Ras Baraka, Ciattarelli, he referred to it in the spot that we played. I also saw it in another ad where it was more central, that says Sherrill, as a member of Congress, has supported trans girls and women in girls' and women's sports.

There was a bill that the House passed that would ban trans athletes from girls' school sports. Sherrill did vote no on that ban, along with the other Democrats in the New Jersey delegation. This did seem to be an issue that moved the needle in the election last year to some degree in various places. Do you know how Congresswoman Sherrill explains her vote? Because Ciattarelli is going to keep bringing it up.

David: I have not heard her explain her vote on that. I have heard her talk about trans rights, and she is basically progressive in that regard. You're right about the Republicans having taken advantage of that issue. It's been mostly seen, though, in local board of ed type elections, which could prove significant going forward because local boards of eds have been battling the state over curriculum and what kind of books should be allowed in libraries and so on. That's something that could become an issue going forward on the local level.

Brian: The other side of the school culture wars might be with the news in the last day that Governor DeSantis in Florida is trying to make that the first state in the nation to eliminate vaccine requirements for children entering school. That means eliminating polio vaccine mandates, hepatitis vaccine mandates, measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, hepatitis, all of them. That would be the first state to do it if they go through with it. Do you have an idea yet what Ciattarelli is either campaigning on or would say when asked if New Jersey should follow suit?

David: He is very much in the parental rights pocket. He has to walk a fine line here in terms of what is required, but he says parents should have a right to defy any mandate of requirements that require inoculations, et cetera. Mikie Sherrill has been pretty much pro-vaccine, I guess, is the best way to describe it. There's an undercurrent in New Jersey of folks who are very much anti-vax, and they generally are Republicans. Ciattarelli has, where appropriate and where it works for him, talked about mandates and those kind of requirements and how it's more government overreach.

Brian: I wonder, and this is another segment, we're actually planning a separate segment on this, if this is going to contribute to the great sort in where Americans choose to live. I'm sure there are many parents who are like, "No way I would raise my kids in a state where some of their classmates aren't even going to get the polio vaccine." I might have a new baby in the house who can't be vaccinated, and there might be kids with polio, symptomatic or not, coming into my house. Who knows if this isn't going to be a great sort element in terms of where people choose to live, one side or the other of that.

Last thing for today, the non-endorsement from Ciattarelli's main Republican primary opponent, talk show host Bill Spadea, who's back on his morning show now, more of a pure MAGA guy than Ciattarelli. Spadea released a statement that said, "I won't pretend I support a candidate I've always believed and still believe is wrong for New Jersey. New Jersey deserves a fighter and a leader, not a placeholder. I won't rubber-stamp more of the same, and I certainly won't help sell voters on a candidate I believe will keep us stuck exactly where we are," from Bill Spadea. Ciattarelli beat him by a lot. Is there any implication here for Republican enthusiasm and turnout?

David: [chuckles] Bill Spadea is really good at promoting Bill Spadea, and it's on brand that he would continue to bash Jack Ciattarelli. The fact is that aside from the little swath of central Jersey that gets Spadea's morning show, his impact on Republicans statewide has been very much inflated, especially, I think, in Bill Spadea's head. I can't see him having any impact on voter enthusiasm for Ciattarelli from the right. The Republicans, in general, in New Jersey are pretty energized.

They feel like they're going to be able to make some inroads into the state legislature. They're pretty enthused, and Ciattarelli is riding that wave of the last year or so of Republicans feeling pretty good in Jersey. Bill Spadea is not going to stop that train, but he will use his show to attract attention to his show. I think Bill Spadea, if you haven't noticed from my tone, is a bit overhyped as a Republican in anything. I think as a Republican leader, he's a great radio host.

Brian: A very interesting way to end with David Cruz, senior correspondent for NJ Spotlight News, which means public television in New Jersey. He moderates their Chat Box and Reporters Roundtable segments. He's been there since 2011. He's covered New Jersey's biggest stories for almost 30 years. He's been a guest host on this show. I think he gave us the branding for this weekly segment that we're going to do on Thursdays between now and the election, when he said, Jersey Thursdays on The Brian Lehrer Show. Although I will say, David, that we got a text from a listener who said, "Jers-days, Brian, say Jers-days."

David: [laughs] Nice. Jers-days.

Brian: I don't know if I want to go that far, but thank you for Jersey Thursdays. I imagine we will be speaking to you again on at least one of them between now and the 4th of November.

David: Always a pleasure, Brian.

 

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