Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good Monday morning, everyone. We have a special edition for most of the show today. It's closing arguments in the Democratic primary for mayor. We've invited all nine candidates who qualified for one of the televised debates to come out on for about five minutes each and make a final pitch to you and take a follow-up question or two from me. All nine have accepted. We will go in alphabetical order. Up first is City Council Speaker Adrienne Adams.

Ms. Adams, thanks for coming on again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Speaker Adrienne Adams: Great to be back with you.

Brian Lehrer: Everyone will get the same first question. Other candidates, if you're listening in, take note. Take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first, and also, if you're willing, tell us who you'll be ranking second.

Speaker Adrienne Adams: Thank you. Well, I'm running for mayor because I'm an everyday New Yorker, and I know that life in the city feels real hard right now. We definitely need leadership that's focused on us, leadership that's not distracted by scandal. Leading through experience and with proven solutions and not learning on the job. I bring this to this campaign.

I come from working people. I'm raised by union workers in Southeast Queens. After more than 20 years in the private sector, I stepped up to serve my community on the City Council. I've been a City Council member for almost 10 years. Right now, in this race for hardworking New York families like mine, there is no room for error. We need someone who's ready to do the job on day one because New Yorkers can't afford to wait for relief from the economic pressures they're facing right now.

Under my leadership as City Council Speaker, we have approved building new homes to bring down the cost of living for New Yorkers. We've also saved child care and libraries from budget cuts. We've also created new college programs that have helped working people get ahead. When I'm mayor, we're going to do a whole lot more than that. I want to expand on the good work I've done in City Council and move it over into becoming your mayor.

Brian Lehrer: All right. My plan is to ask two follow-up questions to each candidate. For you, to my eye, you've been running very much on your record of being Speaker – you were just emphasizing that – and very little on signature policy proposals. You criticized Mr. Mamdani over the weekend for proposing things that are "pie in the sky," as you put it, but do you have one or two signature proposals that you would want to make sure voters know about?

Speaker Adrienne Adams: Sure, and it wasn't necessarily a criticism to Mr. Mamdani at all. I was speaking in general. We've been on a lot of forums, and I was speaking really in general about all of the candidates because I feel that I'm the most qualified. One of my proposals [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Is somebody else making pie-in-the-sky proposals, according to you?

Speaker Adrienne Adams: Well, "pie in the sky," when I said that, I meant that people are making policy when I've already done the work. That's been my mantra throughout this campaign. I am already doing the work. I'm doing the work on budget. I'm doing the work on housing. I'm doing the work in a lot of other places. That's what I meant. It was a general comment, not necessarily to pinpoint one or another candidate.

Brian Lehrer: All right, fair enough. Right, okay. I saw in other media being interpreted as against Mr. Mamdani-

Speaker Adrienne Adams: Happens a lot to me. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: -so you are clearing that up. Do you have one or two signature proposals that you would want to make sure voters know about that would inspire people from your mouth?

Speaker Adrienne Adams: Absolutely. I want to talk about ending homelessness and stopping the cycle of child poverty. I have a plan right now and a pilot that is in place that is helping 161 women who are pregnant or have been pregnant. It's a three-year stipend, and it is helping-- 63% of them already have moved out of shelter and into permanent housing. We are told that it is taking these women in places from 0% mental health capacity to 100% now, feeling that they have a cushion, that they have reliability when it comes to finances to pay for prenatal care, child care, and other things as well. That's one.

Another thing I want to talk about is public safety. I want to, in fact, build up through the vacancy rate. We have 2,400 vacancies right now on NYPD. We need to fill those vacancies first before we look outwards and bringing in thousands of other NYPD officers. We can do that. My plan is to do that within the first eight months of becoming mayor. I also want to pay officers what they are worth. We are losing officers two and three years into the job because the pay is too low. We have to pay them what they are worth.

We also-- I want to plan to take officers out of the mental health business, out of the social work business. That's not what they signed up for. They signed up to keep us as safe as we possibly can be. I also want to bring in our crisis management teams. They're already on the outside working with precincts on a daily basis to interrupt violence on our streets. How about let's bring them underground into the subway systems where their expertise is needed as well.

Those are a couple of my proposals. I know that New York deserves more. I plan to implement these changes immediately.

Brian Lehrer: City Council Speaker Adrienne Adams, candidate number one in our alphabetical order closing arguments for all nine candidates who qualified for the televised debates. Thank you very much for coming on and starting us off.

Speaker Adrienne Adams: Thank you for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, it's a special edition of The Brian Lehrer Show today with these closing arguments, about five minutes each to make a final pitch to you and take a couple of follow-up questions from me. We are going in alphabetical order. Next up is Michael Blake, former Vice Chair of the Democratic National Committee, former State Assemblyman from the Bronx, and a former White House aide to President Obama.

Mr. Blake, thanks for joining us again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Michael Blake: Brian, great to be with you, and appreciated the education conversation and clips after the first debate that you all had on the air about my answers there. Thank you so much for everything you do.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Everyone is getting the same first question. As I said to Ms. Adams, take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first and, in your case, why you cross-endorsed with Assemblyman Mamdani.

Michael Blake: My name is Michael Blake. I'm a son of Jamaican immigrants. I'm a child of the Bronx. A husband. I'm a bonus father. I'm an Alpha. I'm a reverend. I'm the only one in this race who is giving you a specific plan on how to address affordability. We need to end using credit scores when it comes to housing applications while also increasing income limits. We need 1,000 mental health professionals instead of the NYPD to address the mental health crisis. We need civics, financial literacy and mental health before every student graduates, as well as a My Brother's Keeper program.

As the only candidate who has White House experience under President Obama, State House experience as an Assembly member and then local experience, and as the only candidate who has actually defeated Donald Trump when I was vice chair of the Democratic National Committee, I'm saying to everyone listening that I'm asking that you rank me, Michael Blake, with your first choice tomorrow.

Lastly, I'm giving you a clear contrast on Andrew Cuomo. During COVID, when Cuomo's policies were killing 15,000 people in nursing homes, I was feeding people throughout New York City with World Central Kitchen [unintelligible 00:07:58] local restaurants. Cuomo said shuck and jive in 2008 when referencing Barack Obama. I was trained by and worked for and helped elect President Obama. Cuomo harassed and had a toxic environment against women. I've been a feminist throughout my entire career. You do not have to go back to the name of Andrew Cuomo. I'm giving you a chance for change in Michael Blake.

To your question, Brian, affordability is the number one issue here. I believe myself and Zohran have been amplifying that the most, and I will be filling out my full ballot of all five. I think it was important to amplify that affordability must be addressed, and I wanted to align with individuals who are discussing that. That is why I want people to rank me first, but then other candidates they should rank thereafter.

Brian Lehrer: Follow-ups. First, you and Mr. Mamdani emphasize your interest in fighting inequality, and we know how much economic inequality tracks by race. The new Emerson poll this morning shows Mr. Mamdani winning the ranked choice primary, but with mostly white, Asian American, and four-year college degree voters. It shows Black and Latino New Yorkers and those without four-year college degrees supporting Mr. Cuomo by around 60% to 40% in each of those categories. What does that say about the legitimacy of progressives like the two of you claiming to be representatives of the working class against elite candidates?

Michael Blake: Well, look, I think with any of these polls right now, it's hard for it to have a true reflective sample size, if you're having an 800-person poll and you expect a million people to vote. That said, I do believe when you see what happens tomorrow, you're going to have an increase of Black and brown turnout that happens towards my candidacy, and I think also several other Black candidates. The reason why I do think you can see and recognize that many of us believe that Cuomo will not win the election is that the coalitions of Dream, of Don't Rank Evil Andrew for Mayor will rally around a candidate that is not Andrew Cuomo.

The polls we're seeing thus far are effectively reflective of the first-choice votes based upon name recognition. The more that people are starting to hear about our respective messages, they will then not only align around candidates such as myself and other candidates as well, but I do think, at the end of the day, the second and third and fourth choices for our candidacy and others similar to ours will align much more with a Mamdani than an Andrew Cuomo.

It's one of the reasons why, Brian, we're doing a large get out the vote rally at Co-op City tonight from 4:00 to 7:00 PM, the largest Mitchell-Lama development in America. We're continuously indicating that we have an opportunity to show Black and brown voters that they should rank Michael Blake, but then otherwise they'll support other candidates aligned with us as well.

Brian Lehrer: My second question, I want to ask you one based on your former position as vice chair of the DNC. The Party is at historic unpopularity nationally now, the polls say. Some Democrats say Trump won last year because other Democrats have seemed too far from the mainstream on issues like immigration, public safety, and identity politics of various kinds. Do you see Cuomo being as competitive as he is as a New York reflection of that to any degree?

Michael Blake: No, I think Cuomo's numbers are purely because of name recognition. Nothing else. Most people couldn't even tell you exactly what he would actually do. There's a perception that he would be a fighter, but I want to remind people I actually have helped defeat Donald Trump when Andrew Cuomo was silent about this. What we've seen throughout the city, at churches across the city for communities of color as well, a lot of people are waiting to vote until tomorrow, and a lot of people, when they actually hear of the differences of choices, are not with Andrew Cuomo.

The reality is this, there are more people that are not voting for Andrew Cuomo than are. My job is to make it very clear that while we have to tell the story of why vote for me and why vote for Democrats – ending credit scores for housing applications, 1,000 mental health professionals for public safety, civics and financial literacy for students – that will get people to vote for us as Democrats. That's why I, Michael Blake, am asking people to rank me first on tomorrow.

Brian Lehrer: On the national angle of my question, a backlash to too much of what one might call progressivism among Democrats that alienated too many mainstream so-called Americans?

Michael Blake: I don't think there's a backlash, Brian. I think what's happening is people are actually looking for you to align around economic policies. I think fundamentally, Trump won twice because people didn't actually say, what are you going to do for me? I think as it relates to this election, Cuomo's success thus far has nothing to do around a backlash on the national party itself. I think it is a perception of people trying to assess who will fight for our communities.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Michael Blake [crosstalk]--

Michael Blake: That is a way to counter that in a very real way.

Brian Lehrer: Michael Blake, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Michael Blake: Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: It's a special edition of The Brian Lehrer Show today. If you're just tuning in, closing arguments in the Democratic primary for mayor. We've invited all nine candidates who qualified for one of the televised debates to come on for about five minutes each and make a final pitch to you and take a couple of follow-up questions from me. We're going in alphabetical order, so next up is former Governor Andrew Cuomo.

Thanks so much for doing this, Mr. Cuomo. Welcome back to WNYC.

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: Thanks. Good to be back, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Everyone is getting the same first question. Take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first, and also, if you're willing, tell us who you'll be ranking second.

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: Yes, thank you. I think as we get down to it, Brian, on elections, they raise a lot of issues and a lot of ancillary issues, but this election is fairly simple. You're electing the mayor of the city of New York, and mayor is an operational job. A mayor is a manager. Fiorello LaGuardia, "No Democratic or Republican way to pick up the garbage," right? It's get the job done. The city is in real trouble, crime, homelessness, et cetera. Who can actually make government work? Who can get the garbage picked up? Who can get the mentally ill off the streets? Who can make the city safe?

My record is indisputable for making government work. I've been governor, attorney general. People know me. They watched me every day through COVID. They know that I make government work. They went through a new LaGuardia Airport. They go over Kosciuszko Bridge. They go over Mario Cuomo Bridge. They know I raised the minimum wage. They know I passed paid family leave. They know I passed marriage equality, first big state in the United States. These are all hard accomplishments that New Yorkers know, and you're not going to dissuade them one way or the other. They know me intimately after 11 years of governor, especially after COVID every day. It's who can make government work to clean up this city, and I fit that bill.

Brian Lehrer: I'm going to ask you two follow-up questions, and I plan to ask Mr. Mamdani about these same two topics. On making government work, any new mayor is going to need Albany to get some major pieces of your agenda done. Crain's New York Business wrote this about you last week. They wrote something else about Mr. Mamdani, which I'll ask him. About you, they wrote that you would "encounter headwinds due to his ice-cold relationships with the state lawmakers whom he antagonized during his decade as governor." They wrote, "Lawmakers long accused Cuomo and his aides of engaging in bullying to get their way, a contributing factor in Cuomo's 2021 resignation under threat of impeachment."

Can you convince people that Mr. Mamdani, who is currently in the legislature, wouldn't be more effective for the city up there because of your relationships?

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: Yes. I think, two points. I don't think people are really interested in the interpersonal relationships of who went to dinner with whom the most with the legislators [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: These are professional relationships, no?

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: Yes. I got 11 budgets passed on time with the New York State legislature. I got more done than any governor in modern history with the New York State legislature. They haven't passed an on-time budget since. All those progressive laws that were firsts, I got them done with the legislature. Do you have to push the legislative body to get things done? Sure, you do. You're not going to find a chief executive who was successful, who the legislature doesn't say, he could be a pain in the neck to deal with, but that's how we got things done.

Look, as mayor, you're going to have to fight with Albany. You're going to have to. I know this very well. I watched it since I've been 20 years old. The mayor of New York is going to have to say to Albany, we need more. You can't tell us reduce classroom size and then not give us the money. We need funding for the MTA, et cetera. There is a tension between the mayor of New York and the governor of New York. They have to keep it positive, but there has to be- there is a constructive tension. I'm an advocate for New York City.

Mr. Mamdani has been a legislator for two sessions. He only passed three bills. That is probably one of the lowest levels in the entire legislature. In terms of his relationship with the legislature, he did nothing with them. His politics were too radical for them. It's not that he was part of the mainstream with them. It's not that he was effective as a legislator. He didn't even try to be effective as a legislator because, as he said in The New York Times, he thinks the job of being a mayor is being a messenger. He's about public relations, and these jobs are operating, CEO jobs.

Brian Lehrer: Let me jump back in for time, and one more, and as I say, I'm going to ask Mr. Mamdani about this topic too. The super PAC supporting you is blitzing the city now with flyers and other advertising to convince people Mr. Mamdani is a risky vote for Jewish New Yorkers, but I want to ask about your involvement in the Middle East situation and how it might reflect back here.

The lawyer Alan Dershowitz announced in November that you joined what he called a dream team to defend Prime Minister Netanyahu from war crimes charges. Would you do that while being mayor? Number one. Do you think having a mayor who's all in with Netanyahu's approach to Gaza really makes New York Jews less vulnerable to attack?

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: Yes. Two things on that, Brian, but I think it's important. I think unifying the Democrats is important because Trump, who I fought with many times, he is divide and conquer, so we have to stay unified. I support Israel. Do I support Benjamin Netanyahu's strategy on everything he's doing? No, but I support Israel. I think [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Isn't that what defending him as a lawyer against war crimes would be doing, defending him against what other people consider the worst of what he's doing in Gaza?

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: Well, as mayor, obviously I wouldn't be in a position to be defending the Prime Minister, but that's a complicated argument because this is about the ICC, the International Court, and do they have any jurisdiction over Bibi or not. I would not be doing that as mayor. I do support Israel, yes. I don't support everything Israel is doing in the war, but I support Israel.

More, I oppose anti-Semitism. I oppose Mr. Mamdani saying globalize the intifada. I oppose Mr. Mamdani saying that President Obama is evil and President Obama is a liar, and Hakeem Jeffries is like George Wallace, and sending an ad with a watermelon to Hakeem Jeffries. That kind of divisive rhetoric is a cancer, and you cannot divide the Democratic Party. You can't divide this city. We are diverse. The diversity has to be a strength. When you make that crack, Donald Trump will exploit it. I have seen him do it many, many times.

Brian Lehrer: The question was about the Middle East and how it reflects back on New York. Just to finish up, Mr. Mamdani is taking heat for not supporting Israel as a Jewish state. Do you support a two-state solution, which Mr. Netanyahu does not?

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: I support peace in the Middle East. I do not endorse anyone's strategy. That's for the Prime Minister of Israel. I don't endorse his strategy one way or the other. I just want peace on both sides. Anything I can do to facilitate that. I support the state of Israel. I support the state of Israel as a Jewish state, but that is it. It is very controversial [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Right, so you won't say you support a two-state solution.

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: I don't think it's my place to say what solution I would solicit or advocate or not. I just want a peaceful solution. Whatever gets us to peace, gets us to peace. I support Israel, which today means fighting the anti-Semitism which is growing in New York City, where we have the highest incidence of anti-Semitism in the United States. That's our problem, and that's what I want to focus on.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Cuomo, we appreciate it a lot. Thank you very much for coming on today.

Former Governor Andrew Cuomo: Thank you very much.

Brian Lehrer: It's a special edition of The Brian Lehrer Show today, closing arguments in the Democratic primary for mayor. We've invited all nine candidates who qualified for one of the televised debates to come on for about five minutes each and make a final pitch to you and take a couple of final questions from me. We're going in alphabetical order. Next up is New York City Comptroller Brad Lander.

Mr. Lander, thanks for coming on again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Thank you, Brian. As always, an honor to be on with you.

Brian Lehrer: Everyone is getting the same first question. Take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first and, in your case, why you cross-endorsed with Assemblyman Mamdani.

Comptroller Brad Lander: I love this city and I believe so deeply in its future. Raising my kids and my family here, having them in public schools, thriving in this city is like the great blessing of my life. We face a lot of challenges, crushing affordability, corruption at City Hall and Donald Trump, and we need leadership that can carry us forward. What I offer is bringing honest leadership, real public integrity back to City Hall to power wash it after all Eric Adams' corruption.

Let's be clear. Andrew Cuomo just said we know him. What we know is that he was a corrupt and abusive governor. He's running a corrupt and abusive campaign, and he would be a corrupt and abusive mayor. Those scandals aren't just the past. They're how he approaches everything, always in it for himself. Number one, we need honest leadership to bring integrity back to City Hall.

Second, I've got a bold, progressive vision for a more affordable and safer city, and the management chops and the track record to deliver on my promises. 15 years in public service, 15 years in affordable housing. Before that, I've saved taxpayers $2 billion. I know how to run this government better.

Then finally, we need a mayor who will stand up to Donald Trump on behalf of our budget, like I did when Elon Musk and Donald Trump stole $80 million from us, and on behalf of our values and our immigrant neighbors and the rule of law, like I did last Tuesday in the ICE detention courts, and like I'll do to protect New Yorkers every single day.

Brian Lehrer: Now my two follow-up questions. If you're actually going to win the primary, you have to get more votes than Mr. Mamdani. Will you make a case to listeners to rank you above him?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Yes. Well, you asked me to say why I was supporting him and encouraging people to rank him second, and I do think the vision he's put out of a city everyone can afford, I think, integrity and decency are gatekeeping, and Andrew Cuomo is not, and I believe Zohran Mamdani is.

For me, what I offer is a combination of those progressive values and the management chops to deliver on them. It is a big city to run, and I have this track record of canceling corrupt contracts, of auditing every agency, of actually delivering over 50,000 units of affordable housing. For those candidates who want both that progressive vision and the management experience to deliver on them, rank me first, rank Zohran second. Let's make sure Andrew Cuomo gets nowhere near City Hall.

Brian Lehrer: You're proposing to add 1,500 police officers to replenish a decline of thousands in the ranks in recent years. Mr. Mamdani is the only candidate in the primary proposing zero more police, I believe. Are you being too timid on a less police-focused approach to public safety, or is he being too risky?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Well, what I'm proposing is to get back to budgeted headcount, which is 35,000. We're about 1,500 below it. I've got strategies to recruit and retain and support officers to do that. My number one public safety proposal is to end street homelessness for people with serious mental illness so they're not riding the subway, a danger to themselves and sometimes to others. We don't do that primarily with policing. We do that with a housing-first strategy that connects them to housing with services and works 70% to 90% of the time to connect people to stable housing. That'd be a safer city, a more humane city, a better run city, and that's the leadership I'm offering.

Brian Lehrer: Quick follow-up, quick political question. If Mr. Cuomo wins the primary, the Working Families Party might run a candidate, probably you or Assemblyman Mamdani, on its own line. Is that a good idea, or would it risk too much splitting the Democratic vote and winding up with Republican Curtis Sliwa as the next mayor, who I'm guessing you would think would be much worse than Cuomo?

Comptroller Brad Lander: I'm extremely optimistic that either I or Assemblymember Mamdani are going to win this race tomorrow and provide a kind of leadership for the Democratic Party that shows how New York City can be governed well and ambitiously and win voters back we do need. This has been a fascinating debate about the future of the Democratic Party, but for me it's the same thing: honesty and integrity, stand up for working people, actually deliver, and fight Trump's authoritarianism. That's what I think is at stake tomorrow, and that's what I think is at stake in our country as well.

Brian Lehrer: Brad Lander, thank you very much.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Thanks, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: It's closing arguments with all nine Democratic mayoral primary candidates ahead of primary day tomorrow. We'll keep going in alphabetical order after the break with candidate number five, Zohran Mamdani. Stay with us.

Brian Lehrer on WNYC. It is our special edition today, closing arguments in the Democratic primary for mayor. We've invited all nine candidates who qualified for one of the televised debates to come on for about five minutes each and make a final pitch to you and take a couple of follow-up questions from me. We're going in alphabetical order. Next up is State Assemblyman from Queens, Zohran Mamdani.

Mr. Mamdani, thanks for coming on again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani: Thank you so much for having me, Brian. It is such a pleasure to be here.

Brian Lehrer: Everyone is getting the same first question. Why don't you fold it into this? Take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first, and also in your case, with multiple cross-endorsements, if you're willing, tell us who you'll be ranking second.

Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani: Absolutely. Well, when we launched this campaign exactly eight months ago today, City Hall was engulfed in corruption and scandal, but we said then that New Yorkers couldn't even afford to worry about that because the greatest crisis, the cost of living, was pushing them out of the neighborhoods that they love. We've made addressing that affordability crisis the centerpiece of this campaign so that working and middle-class New Yorkers who built this city can afford to call it home: freezing the rent for millions of rent-stabilized tenants, making the slowest buses in the nation fast and free, delivering universal child care, building hundreds of thousands of new affordable homes, and taxing the wealthiest individuals and most profitable corporations to bring down costs of the 99% and improve the quality of life for everyone. We're going to do this while making this city safe for each and every New Yorker.

Police have a critical role to play in addressing serious violent crimes, and we need to help them do that by using evidence-based policies already working around the country to address the issues that officers never signed up for: dealing with mental health crises and homelessness. This agenda has mobilized the greatest grassroots campaign this city has ever seen: nearly 50,000 volunteers, 1.4 million doors knocked, 20,000 donors who gave an average of $80. New Yorkers are done with the cynical politics of the past. They want a future they can afford.

Brian Lehrer: I asked Mr. Cuomo about a quote from this Crain's article on getting your agendas through Albany, and I'm going to ask you one too. The premise regarding Cuomo's challenge was nobody in the legislature likes him- not nobody, but a lot of people don't like him, and they might be happy to frustrate him. For you, it says the prominent State Senator Liz Krueger of Manhattan cast your ambitious agenda as well-intentioned nonstarters. She said, "Albany is not going to approve all these tax hikes that he claims we're going to give them." Governor Hochul is quoted saying about your agenda, "I'm not raising taxes at a time where affordability is the big issue." That was in a different article, but just the other day.

Why not think your campaign agenda is just going to let your supporters down because it's not based in political reality?

Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani: Brian, many people would have said the same thing about the chances of this campaign when we began, and here we are just one day away from toppling a political dynasty. I'm confident of our ability to win these new taxes on the most profitable corporations in New York State, and the top 1% of New Yorkers making a million dollars or more a year, because I've seen in the legislature year after year, an appetite within the Assembly and the Senate to do exactly that, to raise those corporate taxes, to raise income taxes on the top 1%.

Ultimately, I've even gone up against a governor in the past who hasn't wanted to do this, the governor by the name of Andrew Cuomo, who in 2021 didn't want to tax billionaires and corporations – partially because they're his donors – even to fund the very public schools that he had starved for many, many years. We overcame his objection. We raised $4 billion in new taxes, and we were able to finally start funding those public schools.

Just one additional thing I forgot to answer in your first question. I'm proud to say that I'll be ranking and have already ranked when I cast my ballot Brad Lander as my number two.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Cuomo, in his response on the Crain's article, said you've only passed three bills in your four years in the legislature and that's very low compared to your colleagues. How does that recommend you as somebody who can get agenda items through Albany?

Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani: I'm proud of my experience as a state legislator. I'm proud of having won the most significant increase in operating funds for the MTA in modern Albany history, more than $100 million for better subway service, better bus service, and the first of its kind fare-free bus pilot, where we saw the exact ingredients of why we need to make every bus in the city free.

I'm also proud of the fact that in my first year in office, I followed through on a commitment that I made to stand up for the thousands of working-class taxi drivers that this city had left behind. That is a commitment I made because I'd seen firsthand, through the fathers of my own friends growing up in this city, how our city government had promised a ticket to the middle class through medallions that were being sold at levels that taxi drivers could never pay back. Ultimately, I organized, alongside the New York Taxi Workers Alliance and Senator Schumer, for many months, eventually going on a 15-day hunger strike, while ensuring that we had the policy push needed to win $450 million in debt relief, and finally give back to the very people we'd pulled out the rug under from.

Brian Lehrer: The other topic that I asked Mr. Cuomo about, that I'm also going to ask you about, is related to them going hard in their end game on calling you dangerous for Jews; so much advertising on that idea that they have made it a big closing topic of this campaign. I challenged Mr. Cuomo on his assertions regarding that.

Here's my question to you. When Bill de Blasio was on the show last week, he was very supportive of you in general, said you'd make a better mayor than Cuomo in his opinion, but about your comments last week defending use of the term globalize the intifada, de Blasio said, "I think that comment about the intifada was a mistake." He said he knows you're for nonviolence and the phrase doesn't have to mean violence, but de Blasio said, "I think the intifada for a lot of us is something that says something very different."

How can Jewish New Yorkers feel comfortable with this, considering some of the attacks on Jews in this country recently that seem, related to the war, a kind of globalizing the intifada?

Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani: I understand the fear that many Jewish New Yorkers and Jewish Americans are feeling in this moment, especially after the horrific attacks in Washington, DC with the murders of Sarah and Yaron, and the attack in Boulder, Colorado. We know that that is a fear that is being felt by many across the five boroughs. I heard from a friend just a few days after the horrific war crime of October 7th, of how he went to his synagogue for Shabbat services, and he heard the door open and he turned around with a tingle going up his spine of fear that he did not know who was coming in and what they meant for him. I heard that just recently in a conversation with a Jewish man in Williamsburg who told me about how he locks the same door that he used to leave unlocked for years.

Ultimately, these are all parts of the same story about the very real crisis of anti-Semitism. That is part of why we have proposed a Department of Community Safety that will commit an 800% increase in funding for anti-hate crime programming. What Andrew Cuomo is doing is weaponizing this very real crisis and using billionaire money to spew hate, where he has designed mailers that artificially lengthen and darken my beard, where he and other candidates have used words describing me as a monster, as dangerous, as being at the gates; language that is more befitting of a beast than a person.

Ultimately, what I've told New Yorkers is that my concerns, my focus is on that of New York City. As it pertains to things beyond the city in Israel and Palestine, I've always been at great pains to make very clear that it is rooted in a belief in universal human rights. The language that I use personally is language of clarity that speaks to that, and it is a language that ultimately comes back to the belief that freedom and justice and safety is something for all people. What we need in our city is unity, not the mimicry of the same language and tactics from Donald Trump.

Brian Lehrer: De Blasio specifically asked you-- you just said clarity, specifically suggested here last week that you clarify your comment. Should people be concerned that it was not clear, and now you have to come back at it, when you endorsed the language of globalize the intifada? Again, even if you don't mean it as violence and you don't say that it's necessarily related to violence, do you regret doing that because of the way most people take it?

Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani: I was speaking about the word itself and the ways in which that word, as you're speaking to, have a variety of meanings to a variety of people. That is not language that I use. The language that I use is that of clarity. I do not believe it is the mayor's position to be policing language in a manner that we are seeing in this moment, where Donald Trump does so much of the same with so much of the language across this country. Ultimately, however, I know that this is a moment when many Jewish New Yorkers are fearful and are concerned, and I've had many of those conversations. I know that what we need, especially in a leader, is a language of clarity, and that is what I've always sought to do.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Mamdani, thank you very much.

Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.

Brian Lehrer: It's a special edition of The Brian Lehrer Show today, closing arguments in the Democratic primary for mayor. We've invited all nine candidates who qualified for one of the televised debates to come on for about five minutes each and make a final pitch to you and take a follow-up question or two from me. We're going in alphabetical order. Next up is State Senator from Brooklyn, Zellnor Myrie.

Mr. Myrie, thanks for doing this. Welcome back to WNYC.

State Senator Zellnor Myrie: Always good to be with you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Everyone's getting the same first question. Take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first, and also if you're willing, tell us who you'll be ranking second.

State Senator Zellnor Myrie: Yes. My story would not be possible without this city. It is a city that I was born and raised in. It's a city that my parents came to from Limón, Costa Rica close to 50 years ago. They worked really hard, worked in factories to put food on the table, sent me to public schools. I went to Brooklyn Tech, went to Fordham, went to Cornell for law school, became a lawyer, a state senator. That is what our city is about, those opportunities. My mentors and my teachers in my after-school program and during the school day allowed for me to be who I am today, but those same opportunities that my parents took advantage of, they're slipping away for a lot of New Yorkers.

There is less affordable child care. There's less opportunity to find affordable housing. People feel less safe on their subways and on their streets. We cannot depend on the leaders of the past that had the opportunity to make these changes, had the opportunity to make life better, to change the course. We need fresh leadership, we need to turn the page, and we need bold solutions in this moment.

That is why when I'm mayor, I'm going to deliver one million homes to bring down the cost of living. I'm going to deliver universal after-school so that working parents can have some relief and that we can keep our kids safe. I want to solve every single shooting so that wherever you are in New York City, you feel safe. I think it is important in this moment for us to stand up and have courage against this federal administration. We need a mayor that is going to tackle the issues that matter to everyday New Yorkers. That is why I'm urging New Yorkers to vote for me number one, and to vote for the WFP slate and not rank Andrew Cuomo.

Brian Lehrer: According to the polls, you've never entered the top tier of candidates who could win the primary. I see you're using a slogan that you're running against the status Cuomo. Very funny. Why should anyone rank you above Mr. Mamdani, also a progressive state legislator, but who seems to have captured more people's imaginations?

State Senator Zellnor Myrie: I've been really excited about the reception I've gotten all across this city. I've been at subway stations, I've been at churches, I've been at community events, and what I'm hearing repeatedly is that people are excited about my candidacy. They're excited about the vision that we have with bold plans to solve the problems that they care about. This is New York City. There is no greater place to have a comeback than right here where I was born and raised. I'm excited about the enthusiasm we've seen at the early voting polling sites, and I'm excited about what we're going to see tomorrow as well.

Brian Lehrer: Second question on policing, you've called for a return to 2018 police staffing levels when New York was its safest, as you put it on your website, 3,000 more officers. Mr. Mamdani is not running on that kind of restoration, but he is proposing a whole new additional Department of Community Safety – he described it here a moment ago – for non-police interventions like on mental health crises and with violence interrupters. Are you and, frankly, all the other candidates calling for more police, retreating too much to the old ways of doing things that risk unnecessary mass incarceration?

State Senator Zellnor Myrie: Well, what we saw in 2018 was that we can do two things at the same time. We recall that this was a city that was unconstitutionally abusing stop, question, and frisk, but when the courts ruled that it was unconstitutional, we changed that practice. We also had enough police to focus on the things that New Yorkers want them to focus on, and that's keeping people safe. I plan to do the same thing, and this isn't something that is coming just from a campaign line or campaign rhetoric.

I have led on these issues in the past seven years as a member of the state legislature and now as the Chair of the Codes Committee. I have lived experience. I was mugged with my mom in an elevator, and her worldview is informed by that experience. When she sees more cops, she feels more safe. I'm also, as you know, Brian, someone who got pepper sprayed while protesting in 2020 against the murder of George Floyd, and I had to sue the police department. Holding those two truths together, that we can have a robust and accountable police department that is also keeping us safe, is fundamental to the job of mayor.

I've also proposed that we have police and clinician teams in our subways and on our streets, and I propose 50,000 more summer youth employment jobs so we can stop lecturing our kids on what not to do and give them the option on the things to do.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Real briefly. At the beginning, you made your closing argument, but you didn't say who you're going to rank second. Will you announce that?

State Senator Zellnor Myrie: I'm going to be ranking the WFP slate.

Brian Lehrer: But you're not saying in which order?

State Senator Zellnor Myrie: That's correct.

Brian Lehrer: Zellnor Myrie, thank you very much.

State Senator Zellnor Myrie: Thanks.

Brian Lehrer: It's a special edition of The Brian Lehrer Show today, closing arguments in the Democratic primary for mayor. We've invited all nine candidates who qualified for one of the televised debates to come on for about five minutes each and make a final pitch to you and take a follow-up question or two from me. We're going in alphabetical order by last name. One Mamdani supporter asked me the other day, alphabetical order by last name or first name? Yes, by last name, the conventional way. Next up is State Senator Jessica Ramos of Queens.

Ms. Ramos, always good of you to join us. Welcome back to WNYC.

State Senator Jessica Ramos: Great to be back, Brian. How are you?

Brian Lehrer: I'm okay, thank you. Everyone is getting the same first question. Take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first. Also, in your case, since you've endorsed Mr. Cuomo, are you still calling on people to rank you number one?

State Senator Jessica Ramos: I absolutely am. Look, I'm State Senator Jessica Ramos from Queens. I'm a 20-year public servant. I have worked as a staffer in the City Council. I've worked as a staffer at the mayor's office. I bring a lot of experience from different perspectives, and I think that's why I've been such a successful and serious legislator. I've passed 167 bills in the seven years that I've been in office. Very comprehensive about the affordability crisis that we've been in since even before the pandemic, which only exacerbated it. Making sure that we are able to have more affordable housing in our city. I've been a big proponent of union jobs. I want to build a union climate economy in order to tackle that crisis.

On this campaign, I've been talking about mental health and my Harmony NYC plan in order to really achieve the type of public safety that we need. I think more so now with everything happening coming from the federal level, we also want to make sure that we are separating ICE from the NYPD, making sure that they are focused on the real bad actors that we have and solving crimes, and making sure that we're protecting families across the five boroughs. We want to make sure we have child care and every incentive in order to help our economy, protecting our small businesses like our restaurants, like our supermarkets, so that we can hopefully continue to thrive and have a city that continues to be for everyone.

Brian Lehrer: Your endorsement of Mr. Cuomo took many progressive New Yorkers by surprise. You had just been ranked by the Working Families Party as part of their anyone-but-Cuomo slate. You come more from the Mamdani wing of the Party, let's say, than the Cuomo one. What do you say to people who have asked themselves, what happened to Jessica Ramos?

State Senator Jessica Ramos: Well, I think what happened was that Jessica Ramos looked at the polls and saw that the race was really boiling down to two men, and that is clearer more than when I made this decision. I know not everybody agrees, but I'm trying to take a very sober look at this election and really upholding my duty and my obligation to my constituents. I represent a 68% Latino district. A good portion of my district is foreign-born and would or could have issues with immigration if they continue to raid our neighborhoods. We've had quite a few experiences out here, and I take all of our safety very seriously.

Just given the time we're in, it is my belief that if the race boils down to two men, even if I have profound disagreements, I would rather disagree with someone I know than with leadership that is untested. Certainly, the Assemblyman is someone who has been in office for four years, has had opportunities to do a lot of work, including laying down the groundwork for a lot of these promises that he is making on the campaign trail. To me, it really boils down to all of the things that we need addressed, and making sure that we can put together a team that is going to be able to bring some order to City Hall and keep Eric Adams out of office, which is the ultimate goal.

Brian Lehrer: Were you making the argument a minute ago that Mr. Cuomo would be better at protecting immigrants from Trump than Mr. Mamdani would?

State Senator Jessica Ramos: I think that our city would be gravely punished by the President of the United States in order to make an example of us before there is a greater spread across the country over the next few years election-wise. The collateral damage to that, to such a war-- not to minimize the real war that we've now entered in, but I think that situation could put a lot of my community members in limbo, in very difficult positions, and that is not something I want. That is, first and foremost, the obligation and the responsibility that I feel towards my district where I happen to be born and raised in, and I'm raising two boys [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Just for clarity, were you saying just now that you think Trump will be more interested in humiliating a Mayor Mamdani than he will in humiliating a Mayor Cuomo by going hard on immigrants here?

State Senator Jessica Ramos: I don't think only on immigrants. I think we've already started to see the withholding of funding from flood mitigation, for example. Trump withheld $356 million in flood mitigation, by the way, $100 million of which is from my district alone. We were ground zero for Hurricane Ida, and so we want to [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Under Mayor Adams.

State Senator Jessica Ramos: Under Mayor Adams, that is correct. That happened a few weeks ago. We had a little press conference here in the district and [unintelligible 00:49:51] there's attacks on many fronts. I want to make sure that we have an experienced knife fighter who can be better positioned to protect our city rather than an improvisation or a first-time mayor who may not necessarily be able to keep our city unified, given some of the rhetoric that's been thrown around, and therefore, also, not be able to deliver compromises from the administration where possible and knowing when to distinguish when we fight and when we put pressure. This is why I've also advocated for withholding our federal taxes from the Trump administration, and I introduced a bill to that effect.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing, you were quoted by The New York Post in April saying, Mr. Cuomo's "mental acuity is in decline." You were quoted in Politico this month saying, you wished we "lived in a city where voters cared about women getting harassed." Then you endorsed Mr. Cuomo. How can people believe that you mean what you say going forward in your career after those kinds of instant flip-flops?

State Senator Jessica Ramos: We don't live-- the point is that we don't live in a society that takes sexual harassment seriously. As a woman who has survived rape, I can tell you we live in a society that doesn't even take that seriously. It's very extremely unfortunate. I would have thought that the candidate with the most scandals and the candidate with the least amount of experience might have been at the bottom, and yet somehow both are at the top of the heap. Again, this to me is a much more sobering decision about the reality of where this race has ended up, and [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Just to be clear, why did you tell The Post Cuomo's mental acuity is in decline? Your exact words. What did you see that made you say that?

State Senator Jessica Ramos: Well, I definitely feel that he should make himself much more available to the press, to community. I reserve my right to continue to criticize him, as I've said I will and will continue to do so [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: That's not mental acuity, right?

State Senator Jessica Ramos: I do think that he'll be able to put a team together that is able to address the city's issues all the way from potholes and the delivery of effective city services to the relationship with Washington, DC at this time.

Brian Lehrer: Jessica Ramos, thank you very much.

State Senator Jessica Ramos: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: It's a special edition of The Brian Lehrer Show today, closing arguments in the Democratic primary for mayor. We've invited all nine candidates who qualified for one of the televised debates to come on for about five minutes each and make a final pitch to you and take a follow-up question or two from me. We're going in alphabetical order. Next up is former Comptroller Scott Stringer, number eight out of this set of nine.

Mr. Stringer, thanks for coming on with us again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Former Comptroller Scott Stringer: Good morning, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Everyone is getting the same first question. Take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first. Also, if you're willing, tell us who you'll be ranking second.

Former Comptroller Scott Stringer: Well, look, I'm born and raised in New York, where I grew up in Washington Heights, and government service has been my life's passion and my life's work. I started out as a kid campaigning for my cousin, Bella Abzug, and I never stopped in all these years because I do love this city. Through my time as a state legislator, Manhattan borough president, city comptroller, I think I've built a reservoir of experience that is very needed at this moment in time in our city.

This is not a time for a mayoralty on training wheels, and this is not a time for experience that results in chaos. I believe I'm the candidate that can use my experience to build a platform and goals that will benefit New Yorkers, whether it's affordable housing, education, making sure that we end this corrupt government and rebuild the administration. I think I'm uniquely qualified in this moment in time to do this. I've enjoyed campaigning once again throughout the city. People have hope for our city, and I want to deliver for them for real.

Brian Lehrer: You argued in the debate, that I helped to moderate, that Mr. Cuomo is running on experience. Mr. Mamdani is running on progressive vision. You're the candidate who has both without the baggage of either, I'm paraphrasing, but your campaign hasn't caught on enough for you to be really competitive. According to the polls, Brad Lander and Adrienne Adams sort of have that lane. Why you over either of them, as part of a closing argument?

Former Comptroller Scott Stringer: Well, look, first of all, you live by the polls, you die by the polls. I was behind in many of the races I ran and was written off by the political pundits. If you really look at the polls, there's no question that Andrew Cuomo and the Assemblyman are the clear two-person race right now, but the rest of us are all within the margin of error, depending on turnout, getting out the vote efforts. I think I'm going to surprise a lot of people on Tuesday.

Look, everyone's so focused on who are you ranking, and I'm telling you I'm not about over-strategizing the strategy. I have a simple message. If you believe I'm the mayor that can best help this city, rank me number one, regardless of polls. If you believe someone else could be the second-best mayor, rank that person. Politics will take care of itself. Voters in New York City, and I have the most experience with this, they know what needs to be done, so I ignore the polls as I've always had.

The closing argument I'm making is very simple. If you want experience that can actually get things done, if you want the adult in the room at a moment in time when the federal government is coming for us in a way we've never seen, if you want someone who has unprecedented accomplishments, especially in the comptroller's office, divested from fossil fuel, divested from private prisons, divested from gun manufacturers, I took it to Bill de Blasio 364 days a year. I didn't sleepwalk during that time. I was an activist comptroller that really built an office that I'm very proud of, and imagine what I could do as mayor of the city of New York.

Brian Lehrer: Will you rank either Mr. Mamdani or Mr. Cuomo, and if both, in what order?

Former Comptroller Scott Stringer: I'm going to urge my supporters and the voters I'm meeting on the streets to rank me number one and make your best judgment as who you think would be the best candidate for mayor if it's not me. As you see from the previous caller, from Jessica, she spent half of her time having to defend her second choice for mayor. I don't want to do that. I'm making my closing argument about what I can do as mayor, and I think that's what voters want. That's what I'm hearing throughout the neighborhoods I'm traveling in over the last few weeks.

Brian Lehrer: Scott Stringer, thank you very much.

Former Comptroller Scott Stringer: Thank you, sir.

Brian Lehrer: It's a special edition of The Brian Lehrer Show today, closing arguments in the Democratic primary for mayor. We've invited all nine candidates who qualified for one of the televised debates to come on for about five minutes each and make a final pitch to you and take a couple of follow-up questions from me, approach eleven o' clock, with these candidates for mayor in alphabetical order. Next and last up is former hedge fund manager and Teach For America co-founder, Whitney Tilson.

Mr. Tilson, thanks for coming on again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Whitney Tilson: It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me, and I see you saved the best for last. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: If you believe in the alphabet as signaling quality, that's great. Everyone is getting the same first question. Take about a minute to 90 seconds to make your closing argument for why voters should rank you first. In your case, since you told us at the debate you'll be ranking Mr. Cuomo second, nobody else announced at that point, you did, why that is as well.

Whitney Tilson: Sure. I'm the only change candidate in the race. I'm the only person who's not a career politician. I've been here for 31 years, built a half dozen small businesses in the city, raised three daughters here, love the city, worried it's headed in the wrong direction and think we need an outsider, someone who's not from within the system to really bring about change.

I'm proudly running in the Mike Bloomberg lane. I just made one mistake; I didn't become a billionaire first so that I could self-fund and buy myself the name recognition that you need in this enormous city. It's been quite clear that the path for me to actually win has closed, and so I have spent the ending stage of my campaign doing the best thing I can for my city, which is warn people about the dangers of electing a radical 33-year-old, totally unqualified, inexperienced socialist, Zohran Mamdani. Of course, the only person-- we all know that the polls can't be wrong by that much. It is going to come down to either Cuomo or Mamdani.

I'm urging people to vote me first, but rank Cuomo second. When I'm knocked out in the ranked choice voting, that vote will go to Cuomo and help him stop a takeover of our city by the Democratic Socialists of America.

Brian Lehrer: You've objected to Assemblyman Mamdani's proposal to pay for services like universal child care and free city buses through a 2% income tax hike on Big Apple residents who make more than a million dollars a year, and to increase the corporate tax from about 7% to 11%, which he says is only the same as New Jersey's. Do you not think that would just be asking the most comfortable among us to do their fair share at a time of massive inequality that's largely chasing families with children out of town?

Whitney Tilson: His proposal to pay for all the free stuff he's offering to everybody – I can't even keep track, it's so much – I want to expand healthcare, for example. I understand the affordability crisis. I think experimenting with free buses is an interesting idea. The problem is he has no realistic way to pay for it. The mayor doesn't control these taxes. It comes through Albany, and there is no appetite for that. That's why he hasn't proposed any of this in his four years in Albany.

The most fantastical deception out there is more than half the spending he's proposing by raising the corporate tax, it is disingenuous at best. New York City corporations are already paying a 50% higher tax rate than New Jersey when you factor in the 9% city tax rate, the 30% downstate surcharge, et cetera. This idea that, oh, we'll just raise it to New Jersey's rate statewide is disingenuous. Under his plan, the taxes paid by New York City businesses would be double New Jersey, triple Connecticut, five times Florida, would cause a huge exodus of businesses and jobs. Also, by the way, the other fantastical part is he's expecting Albany and the governor to pass a statewide business tax and then give all the money to New York City. That is true fantasy.

Brian Lehrer: Even though you criticize Mr. Mamdani so much, and this is my other question, I've read that you want to try something like his free buses experiment that ran on a number of bus lines for some subway lines "ripping out all the subway turnstiles," is how The Post quoted you for those stations. What's your vision for that and where could it lead if you were to deem it a success?

Whitney Tilson: The Post sort of mischaracterized it. What I was proposing was let's pick 5 or 10 subway stations in the lowest income neighborhoods of New York and see what happens if you make the subways free there. Does it lead to benefits? These are stations where the $2.90 is a lot of money in the lowest income neighborhoods. Does it help with the affordability crisis? Does it stimulate economic development? I'm in favor of this experimentation. In the meantime, let's expand the Fair Fares program so that low-income New Yorkers can afford our public transit.

Brian Lehrer: Whitney Tilson, thank you very much for coming on one more time.

Whitney Tilson: My pleasure. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, there you have it. Brief closing arguments from all nine of the candidates in the Democratic primary for mayor who had qualified for one of the debates. We thank every candidate for being willing to come on and engage.

 

 

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