[music]

Brigid Bergin: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian today. With President-Elect Trump signaling this week through Truth Social that he does intend to declare a national emergency and somehow use the military for mass deportations, New York Congress Members Adriano Espaillat and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez joined with advocates outside the Capitol for a press conference calling on the Biden administration to provide Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, to Ecuadorian migrants.

According to the Migration Policy Institute, over half of the Ecuadorians in the US live in the New York metro area, and some 77,000 live in Queens. Here's some of what Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez had to say.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: As a representative of one of the largest Ecuadorian communities in the United States, of one of the largest immigrant communities in the United States, and of one of the largest Latino and densely Latino communities in the United States, that these communities are so important to our economic production, our cultural value, and who we are as a nation.

Brigid Bergin: We'll hear more from the congresswoman around the eleven o'clock hour, but right now, joining me to talk about what TPS would provide and what she's expecting from the Trump administration is Jessica Orozco Guttlein, Senior Vice President for Policy and Communications at the Hispanic Federation, a national Latino advocacy group with offices here in New York, Connecticut, Florida, North Carolina, Puerto Rico, and D.C. Jessica, welcome to WNYC.

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: Hello. Good morning. How are you doing?

Brigid Bergin: Doing well, great to have you. I'm wondering if you could start by talking a little bit about Temporary Protected Status. How it works.

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: Sure. Temporary Protected Status is basically what it sounds like. It's a temporary protection from deportation from foreign nationals who are from certain countries that have been designated for TPS. It does provide work authorization, but nothing more than that. For folks who have other mechanisms of adjusting status, they can do so, but TPS is just a Temporary Protected Status that provides work authorization and protection from deportation.

Brigid Bergin: This is not necessarily a path to a green card or citizenship in of itself, but it does allow for legal employment, is that right?

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: Correct, it does.

Brigid Bergin: Then for Ecuadorian migrants who are here now, that means currently they're not able to work legally?

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: It depends. It depends on how they came in. Some of them may have applied for asylum. Since 2022, Ecuadorians have been the second-largest population applying for asylum from New York. When they're applying for asylum and if they've waited six months, then they can apply for work authorization. Other individuals may have come in with different things like something called parole where they're also allowed to have work authorization. It really depends on the situation. Large in part, if they don't have any of those other kinds of work authorization, they are right now just fully undocumented and surviving without any legal mechanisms to work.

Brigid Bergin: Jessica, I know this might be difficult to quantify, but do you have a sense of the economic and cultural impact immigrants from Ecuador have had and are having, particularly here in the city?

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: I don't have a number in terms of their economic contribution, but we do know that immigrants large in part play a huge role in our economy. They pay into taxes. When you're renting an apartment, you're paying into taxes. When you're buying groceries. When you're out and about and you have sales tax, you're paying into taxes. Those are the tax benefits that they don't get back. They aren't allowed to apply for any federal benefits. The undocumented community, the immigrant community plays such a huge role in our economy locally, nationally.

These individuals, folks may say, "Oh, there's a burden." There's no burden here. There's individuals who are coming here to work and to survive, just like all of us do, and they are paying into our economy. Culturally if they have children, their children are going to school here. They're learning from us. They're friends with your friends. Their kids are all friends in school, and so culturally in our society, these individuals have been integrated into our society and have been here. Again, there's a surge in the last couple of years, but they are now and would probably consider themselves New Yorkers.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, if we have anyone from Ecuador who would like to call in and make the case for TPS, the numbers 212-433-WNYC, that's 212-433-9692, advocates for employers of or immigrants from other countries who are currently able to work here thanks to TPS status, we can take your calls or texts, too. Again, that number, 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. I'm sure we have people who agree with President-Elect Trump. We want to hear from you as well. Again, the number one more time, 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692.

Jessica, the requirement for TPS, which dates back to the first Bush administration, is that it has to be dangerous to return to the country where the person holds citizenship, right?

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: Correct. It's either dangerous to return because of an extraordinary or temporary condition, environmental disaster, or an ongoing armed conflict.

Brigid Bergin: I know there's a state of emergency in Ecuador because of drought and brush fires. We have a little of that here now, unfortunately. There's also growing gang violence as I understand, a television station was taken over in January. What would be the main grounds for TPS for Ecuador?

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: It would be the prong that you first mentioned, the extraordinary and temporary condition that prevented its nationals from returning to the state in safety. For example, Ecuador's homicide rate has surged 228% from 2021 to 2023. There is a lot of cartel related violence, internal armed conflict, like you said before, terrorizing communities, targeting civilians, the press, medical institutions. That is why we have seen such a surge in individuals from Ecuador coming into the United States.

Brigid Bergin: I want to bring some of our callers in. We have a super caller, as we like to call them, on line one. That's Nuala O'Doherty-Naranjo. She runs the immigration clinic in Jackson Heights, was one of our Lehrer Award winners. Very proud. Nuala, welcome. Thanks so much for calling. Can you talk a little bit about the work that you do with Ecuadorian immigrants here in New York?

Nuala O'Doherty-Naranjo: Thanks, Brigid. Absolutely. I'm here in Jackson Heights, Queens, which is the heart of the Ecuadorian community here in Queens. Ecuadorians have been here for generations, but there are many Ecuadorians who have been here for 30 years who are still undocumented. The recent surge due to-- unfortunately there has been just a complete collapse of the criminal justice system in Ecuador and now this historic drought. That is a country that relies a lot on hydroelectric energy means that there's no electricity now in Ecuador.

In just a few years, a country has gone from one of the most stable and well off countries in South America to a country where the population is fleeing. They're fleeing because it's unsustainable to live there. To ask families that have been here for generations to go back to their country of origin that's in complete strife is just inhumane. Here in Jackson Heights, we've got this vibrant Ecuadorian community and it's just growing and growing. This idea of TPS for Ecuador has given them a glimmer of hope in a very dark time. The idea of TPS would mean those that are here as of the day that Biden signs a form, could just fill out a form and stay here temporarily until Ecuador can get back on their feet.

This gives a lifeline to so many families here in Queens. Just so you know, this is the area where Ecuadorians live. Not only Jackson Heights, Queens, and Queens itself, but the Tri-State area. Sure, there are pockets of Ecuadorians in other parts, but this is really a problem for New York City and especially Queens, New York. TPS would give them that lifeline that so many families need in this time where they're just living in fear.

Brigid Bergin: Nuala, thank you so much for making that case there and for the work that you're doing. We really appreciate it. I want to bring in some of our other callers as well. Jessica, excuse me-- Dave in Jackson Heights, thanks for calling WNYC.

Dave: Good morning and thank you for taking this call. First of all, I am an immigrant. I've been here for 20 years. I'm not on TPS or anything like that. As you can see, I've learned the language. I incorporate myself into the culture. I might not be able to work because of my status, but I do contribute. I do work off the books, but I do contribute every single day. Like the caller said or like what you said earlier, we integrate it into our community and we are doing our best to try to contribute as much as we can. We just need an opportunity to continue to contribute to this great land that we came, as many people have.

Brigid Bergin: Dave, thanks so much for calling. I apologize, you dropped out for just a moment while you were speaking, but I think we heard most of your story, which is that you are not new to this country. We, obviously, could hear you clearly and we appreciate you listening and calling and participating in the conversation. Jessica, any reaction to both Nuala, who's obviously doing this work, or Dave and the story that he shared? Is that the type of thing that you're hearing from a lot of other people who are interested in seeing TPS for Ecuadorian immigrants?

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, Dave's story is times millions. I mean, both sides of the aisle agree that the United States has a broken immigration system. What we are doing right now, Nuala, other advocates, attorneys, is we're seeing what exists right now for us to give some reprieve to these undocumented individuals who have no other recourses to get work-- either, just simple work authorization. When people say, "Hey, get in line," there's no line. Where's the line? The system is so broken that there isn't an organized mechanism for individuals to plead their case and to come into this country with authorization, with work authorization.

Secondly, we do know that the matter of fact is that there are undocumented individuals in this country without work authorization, which makes them extremely vulnerable to unscrupulous employers, people who want to abuse them, people who want to take advantage of them say, "I'm just not going to pay you." To child labor. To children instead of going to school, they're working because they need to help provide for their family because their family has no sense, no mechanism for legal employment.

They're all under and in the shadows, working underground because they need to survive. They want to be able to provide a roof over their heads and food for their families just like anybody else does, but there's no way to do that. That's why advocates are calling on the Biden administration to provide TPS for Ecuador, because you know what? That's all we have right now. We would love to have more, but that does require an act of Congress, which they haven't been able to do anything, let alone in the immigration realm.

Brigid Bergin: If you're just joining us, I'm Brigid Bergen from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian Lehrer. I'm speaking with Jessica Orozco Guttlein, senior vice president for Policy and Communications at the Hispanic Federation, about their push for President Biden to grant Temporary Protected Status for Ecuadorian immigrants before leaving office. We have Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on the phone now for a few minutes. Congresswoman, welcome back to the Brian Lehrer Show.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Of course. Thanks for having me. Good morning.

Brigid Bergin: Good morning. We heard a little bit at the start of the segment about what you said at the press conference. In a nutshell, you want the Biden administration to extend TPS to Ecuadorian immigrants. Can you take some time now to make the case as to why?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Absolutely. Here in New York City, the Ecuadorian community and population is an enormously influential one and important one when it comes to our immigrant communities as well as providing relief for undocumented communities. As far as asylum seekers and recent arrivals go, Ecuador is the second largest nation from which recent arrivals are coming from. Being able to extend TPS to them would really allow folks to be able to access work permits and really important avenues of documentation, because a lot of people across our city have been talking about our shelter systems, have been talking about the weight on these systems.

The truth and the fact of the matter is that in order to release the weight on these systems, people need to be able to work, and they have been. There are plenty of businesses in our city that want to hire them, that need these folks to work, that want these folks to work, and we need to be able to clear these pathways. Additionally, in our congressional district, New York's 14th congressional district, in places like Corona, Jackson Heights, and more, our Ecuadorian community is the single largest ethnic community in our congressional district.

Not only that, but TPS would not only provide relief to recent arrivals, but for long-term New York City residents that have been here for up to 20 years without any form of documentation or relief.

Brigid Bergin: Congresswoman, immigration, especially the influx of migrants, was a key issue in the presidential election, which of course, Trump won. If TPS were given to Ecuadorians, do you think it would be short-lived?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The TPS extension, it comes down to the form and the way that it is issued by President Biden. Once TPS is given and once the time period is set by President Biden, President Trump would not necessarily be able to touch that window. Now, once TPS comes up for renewal, that then becomes something that once that period expires, then President Trump and the Trump administration then would have some discretion as to whether it gets extended or not.

During the first Trump administration, we were able to successfully advocate for TPS extension for many different nations. It's not a completely lost cause, but to me, I know that as the representative here in this area of the Bronx and Queens, my number one priority in preparing for the Trump administration is to try to get as many undocumented New Yorkers documented as possible and to open as many pathways for that as possible. Another thing that I think is important to say is that during the campaign, the Trump administration drew a very effective wedge between the undocumented community that has been here for a long period of time, 10, 20 years, and recent arrivals.

One of the things I was hearing a lot in places like Corona and Jackson Heights is, was this idea that recent arrivals were getting this fast track to financial relief, to documentation, et cetera, and people who have been here for 10, 20 years have no path. I thought that that wedge was a very interesting one that really speaks to almost the backlash on not being able to provide any form of relief or act on our crisis of immigration for a long period of time. So much so that the community is actually turning against one another.

It's really important to emphasize that TPS would provide relief to both our Ecuadorian community that have been here for decades, paying taxes, working, but not having a path to citizenship or a green card or anything like that. It would provide that relief to recent arrivals as well. Because the goal is that if you have a crisis of undocumented people, the best solution is to document them.

Brigid Bergin: Congresswoman, I think some of what you're getting at is even within your district itself, there were split-ticket voters, people who voted for President-Elect Trump and for you. I know that in the wake of the election that you have had-- excuse me, conversations with voters about why they made that choice. I'm wondering how you're interpreting some of what you are hearing from voters, especially when it comes to immigration.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Yes, well, I mean, first and foremost, I think the Democratic Party and as well as members of both political parties, we got to fight for people. I think the prevailing sentiment that we see is a lot of people feeling ignored that we have-- I think it's a result of a political system that is so overrun by big money that a lot of people feel very cynical and feeling like neither party oftentimes, writ large, really centers or fights for working people. Whether I agree with that assessment or not, there is that assessment there, and we have to be able to contend with that.

Now, I think when it comes to the issue of immigration, we need to hear people's frustrations. It doesn't mean that we have to get defensive about it. This is the first thing that I say, yes, having an undocumented population is a problem, but undocumented people are not a problem. It's the fact that they're undocumented. We can either waste a lot of money and a lot of resources and break a lot of laws and unleash a lot of violence by turning the US Military against domestic residents here in the United States, or we can solve this problem by giving people work papers and allow us to uphold the long-standing tradition of the United States, which is people coming here oftentimes with nothing but the shirt on their back, but being able to work their way to support their families.

It's really only recently in recent decades that we have made it so hard and so onerous for people to make an honest living and for small businesses to hire immigrants who want to support their families.

Brigid Bergin: Congresswoman, New York City is obviously a sanctuary city, but is there anything you would like to see the city do more of to prepare for this potential for, as you were just describing there, potential mass deportations?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: I mean, I of course, believe that the city should be very-- I think we've seen some really interesting movement coming out of cities like Chicago, Denver, Colorado, et cetera, really communicating in a forthright way that they are prepared to resist potentially illegal mass deportations. I think it's really important for people to understand that 1 in every 15 Americans nationally, 1 in every 15 people that live in the United States nationally are part of a mixed-status family. Mass deportations mean they are coming for 1 in every 15 families in the United States.

Now, in New York City, I'm sure that that proportion is much higher in my district and right here in the Bronx and Queens. Queens itself is the fourth safest county in America when it comes to crime rates. Of course, there are issues, and we will always work on making the city safer and advocating for justice for victims of crime. Queens County is the fourth safest county in America, and it is a county that is nearly 50% immigrant. We're 47.7% immigrant. Actually, one of the most densely immigrant counties in America is also one of the safest counties in America.

There are, of course, issues. We've got Roosevelt Avenue, we've got a lot of folks, we've got-- but also on Roosevelt Avenue, a lot of the mess that we see on Roosevelt Avenue is because the city needs to expand its street vendor licenses so that people aren't pushed into the streets. What people need to understand is that whenever you see rightfully a lot of concerns about everything, every issue from outpouring of an increase of sex workers that they see in the streets or on corners, or street vendors that are in the streets putting things on blankets, that is a result of a lack of documentation and a lack of options. When we provide street vendor licenses and when we provide avenues of economic ability for people to work on the books, they do work on the books.

Brigid Bergin: Congresswoman, just two more quick questions for you. Just back on that issue in the threat of potential mass deportations, do you feel like Mayor Adams is taking that threat seriously enough?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: I think we should see. I think it's important that we see more from the mayor and from the city administration. I think that the city needs to be doing much more to prepare now to defend our undocumented community. My hope, too, is that-- one of my concerns, frankly, has been a lot of rhetoric that have been centering recent arrivals, but this is a threat, not just to recent arrivals here in [unintelligible 00:23:53] City, but for every undocumented New Yorker, New Yorkers who have been here for 10, 15, 20 years that have built families, raised kids, sent their kids to New York State public schools and to college and everything.

They are, for all intents and purposes, in the spirit of what this means, they are citizens, and all-- They are citizens in terms of the role that they play in our city and our nation. They pay taxes. The only thing that they lack is that paper. To me, I think it's extremely important that, yes, the city be more assertive about that and more assertive about, I think, assuring New Yorkers about what its plans are should the administration attempt to come in and institute a mass deportation program. The administration is already threatening cities who tried to resist mass deportation, and we should be able to be prepared to issue a response, as you know, in defending New Yorkers from those threats.

Brigid Bergin: Just finally, Congresswoman, so for people who are listening, who are hearing your concern, is there anywhere you are directing constituents in your district who have these types of concerns to go to for services or support?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Yes, absolutely. There are, of course, many different relief organizations. I would say, first and foremost, if you are an undocumented New Yorker, I can tell you, at least in my congressional district, and I know from many other congressional districts throughout the city, that you can open a case with my office or with your elected officials Congressperson's office. This is important because if ICE does come to your door, unless I have received personal authorization or permission from you or your family, my hands are tied.

I'm currently encouraging my constituents to open a case with my office and just to sign a release form to prepare for any possibility. What that would allow us to do is to inquire with federal agencies on your behalf. That's something that I consistently encourage my residents to do and to do that with your elected member of Congress if you're part of a mixed-status family. There are also great advocacy organizations in Jackson Heights. Make the Road New York does a great amount of relief work. Also, the Hispanic Federation, who I believe was on earlier today, has plenty of resources for people to be able to get engaged as well.

Brigid Bergin: That's Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York's 14th congressional district. Congressmember, thank you so much for joining us. I actually still have the Hispanic Federation here, Jessica Orozco Guttline, who I want to talk to a little bit more about how you are preparing going into the upcoming Trump administration. What is some of the work that is most essential that you were trying to get done ahead of this new term?

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: Right now, I think that the biggest thing that advocates and legal organizations can do is provide accurate, credible, linguistically relevant, culturally competent information. There is a huge sense of fear right now in the immigrant community. As Representative Ocasio-Cortez just said, we have so many mixed-status families across the United States of America. US citizen children with at least one undocumented parent who are terrified. Parents right now who are terrified that they're going to be separated from their children, from their families.

Right now, what we can do is say arm yourself with information, know what is happening, know your rights when you are encountering ICE, know how to prepare yourself. Our immigrant community, they know so much about immigration law. They're almost immigration experts. They know if they qualify for something, they know if they don't. They've taken advantage of whatever recourse that they have if they qualify for something. If you haven't done that, if you are in a mixed-status family and you haven't talked to an immigration attorney or a Make the Road or calling Hispanic Federation to see if you can get an appointment for a consult to see, "Hey, is there anything I can do now to qualify for anything?"

I would encourage that. There are numerous free and low-cost service providers in the city to see if you qualify for anything. If not, if you don't qualify for anything, listen to this community-based organizations, listen to credible news outlets, and don't get so terrified to the point where you're immobilized, because our immigrant community, especially in New York, is incredibly resilient. Incredibly. We've done this before, we're going to do it again. Again, what Hispanic Federation is doing is implementing Know Your Rights curricula to our member organizations, partner organizations.

We hope to soon have something online where people can download and just know what their rights are when they encounter ICE. Another thing that it is real, and we saw it in 2017 under the Trump administration, is families preparing documentation if they are a parent of a minor, if they are removed, that they have a plan for their minor, that their minor doesn't go into the system, that their minor goes with a family or a friend, and they have the legal guardianship if that undocumented parent is removed. That is a scary but real information that we're providing individuals.

Again, I would just say please verify the information that you're obtaining, because under the previous Trump administration, bigger than anything else was the amount of mis and disinformation out there that paralyzed our immigrant brothers and sisters, where they didn't go to hospitals to get treatment because they were afraid of deportation, they didn't travel, they didn't travel to work, they were afraid of traveling locally. Some of them didn't even put their kids in school or continue going to school because they were afraid that ICE would pick them up.

Brigid Bergin: I want to thank you so much, Jessica. I want to thank you for your patience and all of this really vital information. Jessica Orozco Guttlein is senior vice president for policy and communications at the Hispanic Federation. I also want to thank our guest, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York's 14th congressional district. Thank you so much for joining us.

Jessica Orozco Guttlein: Thank you.

Brigid Bergin: I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian Lehrer.

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.