Title: The Drought Watches in New York and New Jersey

[music]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. You know all this nice weather we've been having, there's another word for it, drought. Officially, much of New York State is experiencing what they call moderate drought conditions after the driest October in recorded history. It was the second longest period with no rain at any time in city records since they started keeping those like this in 1869. In New Jersey, it's even worse. Three counties are now experiencing a rare extreme drought, as it's labeled.

Most other counties are in a severe drought. The combination of hot weather, strong winds and dry conditions have led to all 21 of New Jersey's counties to officially have very high or extreme fire danger now. Joining us to discuss what all of this means and how New Yorkers and New Jerseyans as well as their government officials can help conserve water and mitigate the risk of wildfires are Samantha Maldonado, senior reporter for the news organization THE CITY, where she covers climate resiliency, housing and development, and Michael Sol Warren, producer for NJ Spotlight News. Michael, welcome to WNYC, and Samantha, welcome back.

Samantha Maldonado Thank you.

Michael Sol Warren: Hey, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Samantha, a drought watch is the first of three levels in the city's advisory system, as you know. Can you walk us through those levels and what they mean for New Yorkers and where we are now?

Brian Lehrer: Sure. Like you said, it's a three-tiered system. The first is the watch, and that is just to get ready for something to come. It comes with voluntary water use restrictions so just being a little bit more mindful of taking shorter showers or fixing leaky toilets, for instance. In a couple weeks, from what I've been told, we could escalate to a drought warning. That is the point at which city agencies would implement plans that they are making right now.

Then the final tier is, of course, the emergency. That gets into actually mandated water use restrictions. If people are hosing down the sidewalk with water and the department catches you, you can probably get a fine.

Brian Lehrer: Michael, to what extent is New Jersey system comparable, and is New Jersey at the same point on the scale? Maybe it's higher on the scale already.

Michael Sol Warren: The three levels are pretty much the same. New Jersey is a bit farther ahead. The state has been under a drought watch since October 17th. There's a hearing next Tuesday to determine whether or not the state is going to escalate to a drought war. Those still wouldn't put mandatory statewide restrictions in effect, but your local municipalities could on their own enact local restrictions. Folks should just be cognizant of what's going on.

In New Jersey, the final, most severe one, the drought emergency, can only be set by a governor. That hasn't happened since McGreevey declared one in March 2002. When that happened, you had things put in place like water was only served at restaurants if it was requested. Generally, car washing was prohibited. Bans on personal use of power washing, even prohibits on filling pools, things like that.

Brian Lehrer: Is the state or are any local officials in any part of the state asking people to do anything like that voluntarily already?

Michael Sol Warren: Yes. Likewise with what Sam was describing in the city, the state is generally asking people to take a look at how they're using water and try to find ways to cut back on it. They haven't put out any specifics or anything yet, but just asking people to, "Hey take a think about your daily routine and maybe consider where you can cut back on your water usage."

Brian Lehrer: Samantha, in the city, does that mean not asking for water at restaurants or restaurants voluntarily not serving water unless people ask for it? Does it mean taking shorter showers? I remember one time I was visiting San Francisco during a drought out there, and the people I was staying with told me, "You know the policy out here right now, if it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down." Anything like that?

Samantha Maldonado That adage certainly was used in the 1980s during the drought emergency then, but I think all of the things that you had mentioned are definitely things people should think about doing. Being mindful of taking shorter showers. If you see a leaky hydrant, report that. Just anything that could conserve water at this point. Restaurants are still giving out glasses of water. As far as I know, that hasn't been a requirement to not do that yet. but I think under an emergency, we may see that and we may get there.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, anybody experiencing any effects of this drought? We know there are some fires in New Jersey. I've already gotten a text from a listener who says there's a fire on the Palisades right now. I'm not sure where along the Palisades that is, but anybody being affected by any fires in New Jersey or anywhere else that's a result of the drought or in any other way, are you being affected or you have any questions for our reporters from New York and New Jersey on these extremely dry conditions ongoing.

212-433-WNYC. Help us report the story or ask a question about the conditions. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 call or text. I see the Catskills is another place. They're concerned about fire risks. The Pinelands in New Jersey is another place. 212-433-9692. Samantha, has has Mayor Adams taken a strong stand on this? I think he was asked about it at his news conference this week.

Samantha Maldonado He came out on Monday. The Droughtwatch, I should say, was declared on Saturday, which is always the best time to announce something, but then he had a press conference about it on Monday and he and other commissioners came out and just said what you and I have been saying right now just to alert people that it's happening. I did talk to Commissioner Rit Aggarwala, who is the commissioner of the Department of Environmental Protection.

We spoke over the weekend and he said it's not a time to panic yet. We're just trying to get ready, get people in position and get people thinking and start to be mindful about water use because it may get worse sooner than later.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a caller who says he works for Palisades Park and there's a fire burning there right now. Remy in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Remy.

Remy: I work for the Palisades Parks Conservancy. We're the nonprofit partner of the park itself. I happen to live in Washington Heights as well so I look right at the cliffs and there has been a pretty decent-sized fire burning since last night. We were smelling smoke in the neighborhood from 10:00 PM on in Upper Manhattan. I think there's somewhere between 15 to 30 acres burning right now in the park along the Palisades Parkway. My understanding is it's 30ish percent contained.

They're not worried it's going to grow too much but I'm literally watching a helicopter dump 350 gallons of water onto the fire right as we speak.

Brian Lehrer: We have a view of that from the other side of the river from a text, Remy, it says, "In Riverdale in the Bronx, many of us were awakened last night by smoke from a fire across the river in the Palisades on Englewood Cliffs. Our windows were open because it's been 75 degrees in November." Do you know how that fire got started?

Remy: I don't think the cause of the fire is known yet, but I know that the park does traditionally allow grilling and there are no ground fires allowed, but it's possible it was caused by someone grilling? I don't know. I think that the Wildland Fire Department in New Jersey is investigating, but my understanding is they're just working on putting it out right now.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Thank you for calling from the Palisades Park Conservancy. Michael Sol Warren from NJ Spotlight News, do you know anything more about that particular fire?

Michael Sol Warren: No, not about that particular fire. The state hasn't had an update since 7:30 AM and everything that your caller said is pretty much still the extent of what we know. I will say just on that note, because September and October and now November have been very busy for firefighters statewide, that the entirety of New Jersey is under stage three fire restrictions, which is pretty much a blanket ban on any open flames, no charcoal fires allowed, no fires in wooded areas unless they're contained in an elevated stove. That stove can only use propane or natural gas or electricity.

Brian Lehrer: Talking about the drought in both states, the fires that are actually taking place, the risk of other effects from this drought with our two journalist guests, Samantha Maldonado from the news organization the City and Michael Sol Warren from NJ Spotlight News, and your reports from your window, your Driveway or anywhere else, 212-433-WNYC or your questions, 212-433-9692.

Samantha, how about this text from Emily in Queens? She writes, "My parents home in Pound Ridge, Westchester, recently had a fire in our backyard due to the dry conditions. Our entire side of the driveway was burnt and it smelt like charcoal. If my father hadn't been awake, it would have reached our house." That's how granular this is. Unexpected fires breaking out in people's driveways.

Samantha Maldonado Yes. Given the dry conditions, and also it's been quite windy here the last couple of days, fires can really spread quickly. Mayor Adams did talk about how people need to be mindful about not grilling or if they grill, just be careful with that. Obviously, we don't, in the city have very many opportunities to set bonfires or anything like that, but making sure if you're smoking, your cigarette or whatever it is is extinguished properly before you toss it.

Brian Lehrer: You wrote Samantha about how rain in October and November typically helps refill the upstate reservoirs that provide New York City's drinking water, but according to the Department of Environmental Protection, they're working to repair the Delaware Aqueduct, that part of the city's water supply right now. You're right. It's been leaking about 35 million gallons of water daily for about three decades.

Between that and the fact that we're what? Seven or eight inches short of the amount of rain that we usually get in the fall, does it mean anything for water quality? Have you seen anything on that for what comes out of our taps?

Samantha Maldonado This is something that is said a lot in New York City, but the data really bears it out. We have some of the best drinking water quality anywhere. It's tested regularly all the time. All of the watersheds that provide our water are up to high standards. That said, we are getting more water during this repair work time from the Croton Watershed. Typically, we get most of it from the Delaware Watershed. That means--

Brian Lehrer: Go ahead.

Samantha Maldonado Oh, I'm so sorry. That means that our water could maybe taste a little funny or a little different than normal, but in terms of quality, it's all the same.

Janie: Oh, that's good to know.

Brian Lehrer: Janie in Asbury park is going to help us report this story. Hi, Janie.

Janie: Hi, how are you? I just wanted to let you know you may have already spoken about this, but there has been a fire in Jackson, New Jersey for several days burning. They've been trying to out. 300 acres has burned or has been on fire. Also, I think there were 10 structures that were threatened and the smoke was pretty strong when we had a westerly breeze. In Asbury Park, I'm west of Jackson. We were getting really intense smoke here for about 24 hours or so.

Also, I just mentioned to the person who I spoke to, our reservoirs are bone dry. You can see that from the Manasquan Reservoir. There's one in Lincroft which Monmouth Water Company provides most of the water that we get. There is very little water at all in that reservoir as well. That's all I have to report.

Brian Lehrer: That's quite a bracing report. Cindy in Brooklyn has a question. Cindy, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Cindy: Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call. I was wondering about corporate and commercial water usage in New York City and what those levels are like versus personal water usage. Of course in my family we're doing our best to be good citizens and use less water, but I understand or I imagine that using Times Square or buildings having their electricity and computers and AC on 24/7 would be much stronger thermoelectric water usage and general water usage than just individuals in their homes.

Brian Lehrer: That's such a great question. Samantha, I don't know if you know or if the mayor is addressing it at that level. It's one thing to tell individuals to take shorter showers and things like that, but is it really corporate users or institutional users who are the big consumers of water and what kind of limits can be put on them?

Samantha Maldonado No, certainly that's a concern. In New York City we use about a billion gallons of water a day and certainly some bigger, for example, hospitals might use more than an individual family in an apartment. There are certain restrictions I think that corporate and commercial entities would be subject to same as individuals under a drought emergency, but the DEP does take steps to address water use efficiency. There's all sorts of basically programs to incentivize water saving for private entities.

There's certain grants for efficiency projects where you can for instance, put in low flow fixtures or certain meter replacements that more accurately assess your water use.

Brian Lehrer: Anything like that in New Jersey, Michael.

Michael Sol Warren: In terms of water restrictions for commercial, not that I'm aware of, outside of the just voluntary request, but like I said, that could change sooner rather than later. State regulators are meeting on Tuesday to decide if they need to step up their ask of folks and the regulated community on water usage. I guess we will keep an eye out for that.

Brian Lehrer: For a little bit of fun before we go and a little bit of historical context and maybe precedent for what the next level of this may be in New York City, Mayor Ed Koch in the 1980s apparently saw three drought emergencies during that decade when he was mayor. He was mayor for the whole decade of the 1980s until 1989, I guess so. He was mayor for the whole decade of the 1980s because David Dinkins inauguration would have been January 1st, 1990.

Three drought emergencies in the 1980s under Mayor Koch. Here's a 42 second archive clip of Mayor Koch in 1980 for what he called the Keep New York City Wet campaign.

Mayor Ed Koch: It's up to you kids, because I've appointed every kid in New York deputy mayor in charge of saving water. You got to be tough. It's up to all of us to save water and to keep New York wet.

Children: Keep New York wet. Save water.

Speaker 4: Ask your sister to sit in a half a tub of water. You've just saved over 10 gallons of water. Turn the water off when your mother's brushing her teeth, you'll save over a gallon of water.

Speaker 5: Opening a hydrant isn't funny. It can waste over a million gallons of water a day.

Speaker 6: Don't let the water run while your father is shaving. This will save over two gallons of water.

Speaker 7: Tell your brother to get out of the shower. Shorter Showers save three to five gallons of water.

Brian Lehrer: Some advice from New York City kids in the 1980s as staged by City Hall with Mayor Koch. Think we're going to see any theater like that from Mayor Adams, Samantha?

Samantha Maldonado Oh, who can tell? You'll have to ask him.

Brian Lehrer: We will leave it there and we will see what comes. We thank Samantha Maldonado, senior reporter for the news organization THE CITY, where she covers climate resiliency. Oh, I'll follow follow up with one question more for you, Samantha, as a climate reporter.

Samantha Maldonado Sure.

Brian Lehrer: We just referenced how there were three drought emergencies back in the 1980s. Is this a result of climate change, what we're experiencing right now, or is this just stuff happens?

Samantha Maldonado It's hard to say right now whether or not it's a result of climate change. There has to be some attribution studies to really be able to say definitively, but climate scientists have said that periods of intense rain as well as periods of drought are definitely what's expected. That is something that climate scientists commissioned by New York City said that we need to study more just in terms of what's coming, how do we prepare and also what is the demand on water? How does that play into the kind of preparations and look ahead that we need to be doing?

Brian Lehrer: Samantha, thanks a lot. Michael Sol Warren, producer for NJ Spotlight News, thank you.

Michael Sol Warren: Thanks Brian.

Samantha Maldonado Thank you so much.

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.