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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Listeners, it's not for me to declare any results of last night's debate. It's for you, the public. Before we even play any clips or introduce our first guest or, for that reason, I'm just going to give out the phone number, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text, I guess there are at least three ways to think about last night's debate.

One, more generous to President Biden, is debating is not governing, right? You can think he's been a great president and his poor performance on stage last night that everybody agrees he had is relevant only to the artificial world of television debates. Another generous to Biden is, yes, he was halting and hoarse and lost his train of thought a couple of times, but Trump told a blue streak of lies and promoted an encyclopedia of dangerous policies. That should really be the story this morning.

Then there's the third way to look at it, which is the way that's dominating the headlines. The top New York Times headline this morning, "Biden struggles as Trump blusters in contentious debate." Next headline, "Democrats talk about replacing Biden on the ticket." New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg, very pro-Democrat, writes this about Biden, "There will now be a new chorus of cries for him to drop out, and I'll be joining it." Michelle Goldberg.

It's a similar story at The Washington Post. Top headline, "Democrats panic over Biden doubting his future." USA Today, "Team Biden wanted an early debate to shake up the presidential race. This one did, but not in the way they wanted." In the top Wall Street Journal headline on their site this morning, straightforward, "Democrats discuss replacing Biden on presidential ticket."

Democratic listeners, are you in any of those camps? Debates don't reflect governing quality, so don't overplay this in any way. It was just one night. Tomorrow's another day on the campaign trail, or Biden was bad, but Trump's lies and other dangers are the real story of last night or, "Come on, folks. Get real. Biden has to step aside for the good of the party and the good of the country," or call us with any other camp you're in, 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. For those of you who didn't see the debate last night or listen to it, here's Biden from his first answer of the night on inflation that had people asking, "What's up with him," right from the start.

President Joe Biden: I come from Scranton, Pennsylvania. I come of household where the kitchen table, if things weren't able to be met during the month, was a problem. Price of eggs, the price of gas, the price of housing, the price of a whole range of things. That's why I'm working so hard to make sure I deal with those problems and we're going to make sure that we have reduced the price of housing.

We're going to make sure we build two million new units. We're going to make sure we cap rents, so corporate greed can't take over. The combination of what I was left with and corporate greed are the reason why we're in this problem right now. In addition to that, we're in a situation where if you had to take a look at all that was done at his administration, he didn't do much at all. By the time he left, things were in chaos, literally chaos. We put things back together. We created, as I said, those jobs.

We made sure we had a situation where we brought down the price of prescription drugs, which is a major issue for many people, to $15 for an insulin shot as opposed to $400. No senior has to pay more than $200 for any drug, all the drugs they can include beginning next year. We're going to make that available to everybody, to all Americans. We're working to bring down the price around the kitchen table and that's what we're going to get done.

Brian Lehrer: Two minutes into the nine o'clock debate and already Democratic heads were turning over how shaky Biden seemed. By 10:15, the debate's still underway. Politico had a story about Democratic insiders "freaking out" over his performance. As for Trump, we'll fact-check some of the lies, but he turned almost every question into hyperbole about immigrants in the border even when asked by CNN's Jake Tapper about January 6th.

Jake Tapper: What do you say to voters who believe that you violated that oath through your actions and inaction on January 6th and worry that you'll do it again?

Donald Trump: Well, I don't think too many believe that. Let me tell you about January 6th. On January 6th, we had a great border, nobody coming through. Very few. On January 6th, we were energy-independent. On January 6th, we had the lowest taxes ever. We had the lowest regulations ever. On January 6th, we were respected all over the world. All over the world, we were respected. Then he comes in and we're now left at.

Brian Lehrer: One of the many examples where Trump did not answer the question that was asked, we'll take your calls about both candidates as with us now, Sabrina Siddiqui, who's been with us multiple times when she was a reporter for The Guardian. Now, she's national political correspondent for The Wall Street Journal. Sabrina, thanks for turning right around after what I'm sure was a late night for you. Welcome back to WNYC.

Sabrina Siddiqui: Thank you for having me.

Brian Lehrer: I'll just mention, listeners, that as if we don't have enough to talk about today, it's another Supreme Court decision day. We'll see what they hand down, some decisions expected in the next few minutes. Sabrina, to the headline from your paper that I referenced in the intro, Democrats discuss replacing Biden on presidential ticket. Are leading Democrats actually talking about that or is it mostly just media commentators talking about that?

Sabrina Siddiqui: No, I think that there are absolutely Democrats who are talking about for the first time really, the prospect of having someone else at the top of the ticket. Now, you're not seeing a lot of Democrats do so publicly. I think that's because it's obviously significant for anyone to come out and say in public that President Biden should step aside. There's certainly a number of Democratic lawmakers, some of whom are surrogates for President Biden, who privately are telling, not outlets like ours, The Wall Street Journal as well as others, that last night's debate performance was worse than they could have thought for the President. There may need to, at least, be a conversation about what the future looks like with him at the top of the ticket.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take our first caller, who I think isn't having this press coverage. Leslie in Somerset in Jersey, you're on WNYC. Hello, Leslie.

Leslie: Hello. Can you hear me? Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Leslie: Okay. Once I heard the journalist pundits after the debate as though they think they're thinking for other people. I wish they would think for themselves. They're only focused on Biden's few lapses of weaknesses as an old man as though Trump's strength amounted to anything of substance. It's beyond me. I have one other thing to say. Why would any Black person vote for the felon who called for the lives of the Central Park Five without any evidence? Because he's a racist.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you one follow-up question, which is-

Leslie: Go ahead.

Brian Lehrer: -as somebody who obviously does not want Trump to be re-elected, do you think that Biden should stay on the top of the ticket as the best option for the Democrats?

Leslie: I think we need a young, vibrant, Biden-like alternative. Yes, I do.

Brian Lehrer: Leslie, thank you very much. Let's go right on to another caller. How about Andrew in Brooklyn? You're on WNYC. Hello, Andrew.

Andrew: Hello. I'm a Democrat and I was just so sad last night because it's just reaping what we sowed in 2020 when we did have a slate of vibrant, interesting candidates in a primary. Then Jim Clyburn got the whole Democratic machine behind Biden. He got rewarded for his years of service to senator and vice president because he's the Democratic machine candidate. If we hadn't had him in 2020, we wouldn't have him in 2024. Now, we're looking at a very real possibility of re-electing Donald Trump. It was just really sad to watch last night.

Brian Lehrer: Andrew, thank you very much. Alana in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, Alana.

Alana: Hi. I watched the debate last night. I could barely hear Biden. We had to turn our TV up all the way to 100. Trump at least seemed more confident and strong. However, when it came to actual substance, he didn't answer many of the questions given to him. He repeated himself on several points but avoided answering actual questions. I think it was a bad debate all around for both of them.

Brian Lehrer: Alana, thank you very much. Well, Sabrina, somebody got 100 on the debate. Unfortunately, it was Alana's television soundbar.

Sabrina Siddiqui: [laughs] I think this is the challenge, okay? To the point that some of these callers are making, we're talking about substance versus style. It looked like what happened with President Biden and certainly what some of his aides are saying is that this was a function of debate prep where he had been crammed with so much information about policy details that it became very difficult in the moment to remember some of the specific numbers or it was easier to trip up on some of these policy specifics.

He was trying to offer answers of substance about what he has done as president, what he would do if he is given a second term, and where he thinks that the Trump administration fell short. The delivery is ultimately what people are seeing on their television. If they're listening on the radio, a lot of people we spoke to said they couldn't even understand what President Biden was saying.

Meanwhile, you have this contrast with former President Trump, who is speaking very clearly. He's speaking very authoritatively, but almost everything that's coming out of his mouth is a falsehood. It's misleading. It's factually incorrect. It's all over the place. It's not necessarily coherent. It just sounds clearer. It is early, right? In some ways, maybe doing the debate early was good because people may forget about this.

As we get closer to November, I am very interested to see if both candidates do participate in the September debate as planned or if thinking changes based on what happened last night. A lot of Americans, while they're well familiar with these two individuals, a sitting president and a former president, they haven't really tuned in or maybe hadn't really tuned in until last night.

There's this media narrative around President Biden's age that a lot of voters may have dismissed and thought was more of just a narrative and not really reflective of the reality. Then they tune in and they feel pretty uncomfortable with the version of President Biden that they saw last night. I think that's why this style does matter even if, of course, substance is still ultimately what voters are looking for. You can't tell people to unsee what they saw last night.

Brian Lehrer: One thing that happened last night after the debate, and I sacrificed enough sleep to see this before I went to bed, was the President showing up briefly at a post-debate rally. He sounded much, much better. His voice was better. His energy was better. His words were clear, didn't have to turn the television up to 100. That led to a second wave of cable news chatter about this being just one night and don't jump to conclusions about how he and Trump will look relative to each other three weeks from now. Is there a post-debate recovery plan in place yet that you as a national politics reporter are hearing Democrats chatter about without attaching their names to it as some are chattering about replacing Biden?

Sabrina Siddiqui: First and foremost, a senior Biden aide has said he has no plans to step aside and that he is committed to doing the debate in September. From their vantage point, nothing is changing about their plans. I do think you have to, of course, keep in mind that they're not going to give any opening to the conversation of him stepping aside. Because if you even give an opening, then you're essentially calling it today, right?

Brian Lehrer: Right. Well, that's what they would say publicly.

Sabrina Siddiqui: You think of that statement what you will.

Brian Lehrer: What's the recovery plan? Go ahead.

Sabrina Siddiqui: Well, I think he's going to continue and be out on the campaign trail. They had been increasing his campaign footprint in the recent months so that he was out in battleground states a couple of times a week delivering speeches, meeting with voters, talking about his administration's legislative achievements. I think they're going to try and put a lot of more focus on the campaign trail. The challenge for them is when it comes to recovery, there are very few high-profile moments.

There are debates and there's the convention. The state of the unit has passed. That was a moment where they felt good about. It is where you may see the difference in his remarks last night after the debate versus during the debate. It's one thing when it's scripted and there's a prompter he could glance at. Actually, having an audience would've maybe been advantageous to President Biden rather than speaking in an empty room. Just him and former President Trump.

Brian Lehrer: Right, yes. It might have backfired.

Sabrina Siddiqui: I think that they're going to try and put the focus on him getting back to work, him being back out on the campaign trail. The challenge with the recovery plan is the next high-profile moment where you'd have the most eyeballs is the convention itself.

Brian Lehrer: Which is in mid-August.

Sabrina Siddiqui: That's where people are talking about potentially replacing him. I do think it's very unlikely that that will happen, but the fact that it's even a conversation the morning after the debate that that is the conversation the morning after the debate says a lot about how much recovery they would indeed have to pull off.

Brian Lehrer: Well, let's play another clip of each of them. This time, on abortion rights. Here's Trump trying to thread the needle after he ran in 2016 on getting Roe v. Wade overturned and, of course, did it. Now, there's so much backlash to that. This includes Trump supporting a particular abortion right and telling one of his blatant lies.

Donald Trump: First of all, the Supreme Court just approved the abortion bill and I agree with their decision to have done that and I will not block it. If you look at this whole question that you're asking, a complex, but not really complex. 51 years ago, you had Roe v. Wade, and everybody wanted to get it back to the states. Everybody, without exception. Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, everybody wanted it back.

Brian Lehrer: Trump on abortion rights. Here is part of Biden's response to that. Some of which is straightforward and some of which has Democrats scratching their head for his bringing Trump's claim of immigration crime back up.

President Joe Biden: It's been a terrible thing, what you've done. The fact is that the vast majority of constitutional scholars supported Roe when it was decided, supported Roe. This idea that they were all against it is just ridiculous. This is the guy who says the states should be able to have it. We're in a state where in six weeks, you don't even know whether you're pregnant or not, but you cannot see the doctor and have him decide on what your circumstances are, whether you need help.

The idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying, "We're going to turn civil rights back to the states. Let each state have a different rule." Look, there's so many young women who have been-- including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by an immigrant coming in and they talk about that, but here's the deal. There's a lot of young women who are being raped by their in-laws, by their spouses, brothers and sisters. It's just ridiculous. They can do nothing about it. They tried to arrest them when they cross state lines.

Dana Bash: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Sabrina, again, not super clear from the President and some head-scratchers in there. He's being criticized for teeing up Trump on immigration again in an answer on abortion rights, which should be a clear winner for any Democrat. On Trump there, maybe he did make some news even if his word can't be taken at face value. He promised that he would not use his power as president over the FDA to rescind the abortion pill mifepristone's approval. People have been wondering.

Sabrina Siddiqui: I think that President Trump has been all over the place when it comes to the issue of abortion and reproductive rights. He's seeing the backlash from voters to some of these very restrictive measures that Republicans have pushed when it comes to reproductive care and access. He hasn't been as clear with what his own position would be on abortion. It's important to note that some of what he said was false.

Brian Lehrer: You mean everybody wanted--

Sabrina Siddiqui: Right. Maybe that everyone wanted to end Roe v. Wade protections, is not consistent with polling that shows that the American public does want some access to abortion under the law. Of course, he's constantly talking about late-term abortions and falsely claiming that people are performing abortion right up until birth. That is just an outrageous thing to say. That is not true and was not fact-checked in that moment.

I think that's also part of why you had Democrats scratching their heads. There was a point when President Biden also said that we're against late-term abortions and no one's actually really allowing that to happen. He rambled when this is an issue that is usually a vulnerability for Trump and Republicans. It's an easy one for Biden to fall back on some of the Democratic talking points that are very clearly focused on protecting access to abortion and portraying the Republican position as extreme.

It was probably a missed opportunity for Biden, but also worth pointing out that a lot of what Trump said was simply not true. I still think that this is going to be a point of vulnerability for Trump and Republicans, especially when you think about the role that Roe v. Wade and access to abortion played in the 2022 midterms and it being one of the key reasons why Democrats exceeded expectations in the last election cycle.

Brian Lehrer: Another falsehood from Trump last night, it wasn't in the exact clip that we played on abortion rights that should have been a softball for Biden to hit out of the park, but he didn't go there, is Trump's claim that Roe v. Wade had to be overturned because of late-term abortions. Biden failed to point out that Roe only protects abortion rights until viability of the fetus. There are no nine-month abortions. There are no nine-month abortions anyway, but there are no nine-month abortions as a function of Roe because Roe only protected abortion rights until viability, which is months before that, so just saying. Christina, in Tuxedo, New York, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Christina: Hello. Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you.

Christina: Hi. I just want to say that, unfortunately, your reality is what you listen to. Listening to this debate yesterday, well, it brought tears to my eyes. Joe Biden oftentimes looked like a deer in headlights. He could not at all answer a question that I was able to understand. Trump, despite the fact that he spewed lie after lie after lie, he sounded stronger, coherent, which is difficult to understand from him, but stronger, coherent, and just more on top of the topics. Again, answering lies, not really answering the questions, but that's what people heard. It's the difference between the weak and the strong. That's all I have to say.

Brian Lehrer: Christina, thank you. Duron in Newark, you're on WNYC. Hi, Duron. Hey, Duron, listen to your phone, not the radio. We're going to come back to Duron because he's listening to the radio. Folks, when you call the show, turn the radio down and listen to your phone so you don't hear the delay. Josh in Mahwah, you're on WNYC. Hi, Josh.

Josh: Hi. I've been thinking for a while that the dignified exit for Biden is to be the second George Washington and to step aside for the sake of preserving democracy.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Should we try Duron again? Is Duron there? Ready, set. No, not quite yet. All right. How about Aaron in East Meadow? Aaron, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Aaron: Hi, Brian. I wanted to point out quickly. I had called into the show previously during primary season. I had said that Joe Biden had better do his primary debates because he needs to prepare for the debate against Donald Trump. Sure enough, I was proven right last night because he did not seem prepared. I think it was a travesty that he decided not to debate Marianne Williamson and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

I thought it was an affront to our democracy that we were not given a choice to whose candidate we get to put against Donald Trump. Sure enough, we were shown that Joe Biden is not the candidate we need. Now, we're getting talk about replacing him. I think we should have had this conversation a long time ago, but the other two candidates in the primary were labeled as unserious. I thought that was unfair.

Brian Lehrer: Aaron, thank you very much. I think we have Duron in Newark now. Duron, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Duron: Good morning, Brian. I think that Eugene Robinson of The Washington Post put it the best in saying that we all know that Biden is the most prepared president that we've ever had. He's the most experienced, but can he run for president? Is he capable to run for president? I'm afraid last night, it didn't really look like it.

Brian Lehrer: What do you want to happen?

Duron: What was that?

Brian Lehrer: What would you like to see happen?

Duron: I want him to stay in the race. I just want him to perform better. He missed a lot of opportunities to really make Trump look like Trump. There were so many opportunities. [chuckles] I was answering every question for him last night and it was like rubbernecking a really bad accident on a highway.

Brian Lehrer: That's such a good analogy unfortunately. Duron, thank you very much. Yes, Sabrina, so there's the second call in the last few minutes who says, "I was answering every question for him. I was screaming at my television, 'Say this, say this, say this,'" all those frustrated Democrats.

Sabrina Siddiqui: I think that that is really just the prevailing sentiment among a lot of people. That's coming back to your first question that, are Democrats or prominent Democrats actually having this conversation? Is it more of just the media's reaction to how the debate unfolded? You're hearing it from the people themselves. You're hearing it from everyday people who are genuinely stunned at how-- "Unprepared" may not even be the right word.

Almost seems like, again, he was maybe over-prepared and just stacked with all of these numbers and stats and data. The thing is that President Biden had one real job here. He just needed to come out and land some zingers against former President Trump. Really just go back to reminding people about the chaotic nature of the Trump administration. He did hear and they allude to Trump's COVID response and the fact that he's a convicted felon.

Overall, I think because President Biden was rambling and all over the place, it was hard for him to even land some of the punchlines against Trump. I think getting bogged down in the weeds of policy-- Unfortunately, as we've said, debates are not really about breaking down the numbers on Social Security and Medicare. All people need is a clear-cut line about how you'll protect Medicare and the other candidate plans to gut it, right? I think that it just didn't do anything to alleviate concerns that people have. He's looking to fill out another full term and he's already 81 years old.

I think there are not only people who are, of course, now questioning whether or not he could serve a second term. There are people wondering whether the White House has been keeping secret, his fitness for office up until this point. They say that the record speaks for itself and that he's delivered, that he's performed, but there are, of course, a lot of people who now, I think, are going to buy into attacks that we've seen from Republicans that President Biden is-- There are real concerns about whether or not he is up to the job.

Brian Lehrer: We'll continue in a minute with Sabrina Siddiqui, more clips, and you. Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we continue to break down last night's debate with your many points of view. Either Biden is getting a bad rap in the many media outlets that are saying he didn't look up to the job last night or Trump is getting let off the hook for his many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many lies or saying Biden needs to step aside and let somebody who's going to be more capable of defeating Donald Trump get nominated at the convention in August.

We have opinions all across that spectrum coming in from you. We'll take more of your calls and texts as we go with Sabrina Siddiqui, national politics correspondent for The Wall Street Journal. Yes, that's the same Sabrina Siddiqui you may remember from The Guardian. One of your reporting specialties, Sabrina, we know from years of talking to you, is foreign policy. They had this exchange about how America is viewed in the world. The question was actually about controlling the cost of childcare, but this starts with Trump as he did in so many answers, bringing it back to immigration and not answering the actual question.

Donald Trump: Our country doesn't have a chance, not even a chance of coming out of this rut. We probably won't have a country left anymore. That's how bad it is. He's the worst in history by far.

Jake Tapper: Thank you, President Trump. President Biden?

President Joe Biden: We are the most admired country in the world. We’re the United States of America. There’s nothing beyond our capacity. We have the finest military in the history of the world. The finest in the history of the world. No one thinks we’re weak. No one wants to screw around with us. Nobody.

Brian Lehrer: Sabrina, on foreign policy, I realize that's a big topic. Do you have any rhetorical or policy-point headline or two from the debate?

Sabrina Siddiqui: Well, I think that, once again, former President Trump was lacking in substance, right? We know that he holds a very isolationist view of US foreign policy. He was asked about the Israel-Hamas war, which, of course, has dominated the news for the last eight months, and if he'd support the creation of an independent Palestinian state. He essentially just deflected and he didn't really offer anything at all in terms of how he would approach the conflict if he was president.

He just pivoted to attacking Biden for not being sufficiently supportive of Israel and saying that Israel should be allowed to "finish the job" and eliminate Hamas. On Ukraine, he just said without providing any evidence that he would broker some kind of resolution between Vladimir Putin and President Zelenskyy. It's what you expect from Trump. It's just a lot of statements without any clear details or evidence to support said statements.

Then, of course, President Biden, I think, was trying again, but this is where he was trying to speak to what his administration has done, the support that his administration has provided to Ukraine, the support through weapons that his administration has provided to Israel. Again, oftentimes, not always being clear on his delivery, being a bit hesitant, losing sight, I think, of the point that he was making.

I don't think he walked away with a really robust discussion of what foreign policy would look like in another Trump administration, nor really what it has looked like under President Biden. I just want to make one point, though, because one of your callers talked about the primary process. I think the lack of or I guess if you do want to call it lack of preparation when it comes to President Biden, this is exactly why a lot of people wanted there to be a primary because primaries make candidates stronger.

They put them in the position of having to defend their record, come face in public, having to debate alternative candidates, and demonstrating why they are best suited for the job. Keeping President Biden away from a meaningful challenge in some way, shielding him for as long as the White House has, is arguably what has done him a huge disservice and put him now in the position where, of course, tomorrow, you could get a very different President Biden. We did right after the debate and he'll sound just fine. When most people are watching, he didn't. One has to wonder if that would've been the case had he had more opportunities to really rise the occasion in public.

Brian Lehrer: Andrew in Kings Point, you're on WNYC. Hi, Andrew.

Andrew: Yes, hi. Hi, Brian. Unfortunately, Biden got hoisted by his own petard by insisting on those changes to the debate, the mic cut-off, and no audience. I think he expected Trump to behave like a raving lunatic. Instead, Trump was actually restrained and he behaved himself. Everything Trump said was a lie, but he didn't act like a lunatic. Unfortunately, Biden had a lot of senior moments. I'm hoping that the delegates that are pledged to Biden will have the backbone to become faithless delegates and allow us to have an open convention in August.

Brian Lehrer: Andrew, thank you very much. The way that works, Sabrina, correct me if I'm wrong, is they have to vote for Biden because of the primaries. They're committed to voting for Biden and nominating him because he has a majority of committed delegates on the first ballot. The only way that there would be a replacement of Biden is if Biden voluntarily steps aside, or do I have that wrong?

Sabrina Siddiqui: No, that's pretty much the process. You can't simply replace someone who is the overwhelming choice of primary voters. The states already voted in the Democratic primaries. Because he faced little opposition, he won nearly all of the party's delegates. It's very unlikely that you could force him out of the race against his will. Well, the delegates, by the way, aren't just pledged to vote for him.

They're also proved by his campaign. I think at this point, unless he steps aside, then there's not really a path for picking a possible replacement. What we do know about President Biden and what we know about the Bidens in general is when they are under attack, they tend to dig in. It's a very close circle. It's a very tight-knit circle. The Bidens don't really respond well to these sweeping narratives about what he should and shouldn't do.

Brian Lehrer: Listener writes--

Sabrina Siddiqui: I think we'll see what happens, of course, but there's also very little time left. The convention is less than two months away. It's hard to see how this process will play out any differently, but you are right about the rules.

Brian Lehrer: Listener writes, "It's not just Biden not doing the best job to highlight his good policies to make his approval ratings go up, but it is more a case of his campaign staff and Democratic public officials not doing a good job touting his achievements." This listener, who is not advocating Biden drop out, says, "Biden, ASAP, needs to go public, admitting he bombed last night, and that he will strive to continue to earn our trust and do a better job next time." On that note, we're going to make a transition to another guest. We have a very interesting clip to play in between. For now, I want to thank Sabrina Siddiqui, national politics reporter for The Wall Street Journal, for being our first guest today. Sabrina, thank you very much.

Sabrina Siddiqui: Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: Now, we'll bring on another guest shortly and talk specifically about inflation and other economy issues as a breakout from the debate last night, a substantive breakout, which we promised you all week that we would do. We'll take more of your calls and texts, but here's a clip from CNN after the debate. One of their reporters was assigned to keep track of lies told by Donald Trump and he compiled a very long list. This is over two minutes of CNN's Daniel Dale.

Daniel Dale: What stood out was the staggering number of false claims from former President Trump. On first count, Aaron, I counted at least 30 false claims. He said some Democratic states allow people to execute babies after birth. An egregious lie that is illegal in every state. He said everybody, even Democrats, wanted Roe v. Wade overturned. Roe was supported by two-thirds of Americans, even more Democrats.

He said every legal scholar wanted Roe overturn abortion return to the states. Legal scholars have told me directly, this is not true. He said the US currently has the biggest budget deficit ever. No, that happened under Trump in 2020. He said the US currently has a record trade deficit with China. That also happened under Trump in 2018. He said Biden personally gets a lot of money from China. Zero evidence of this.

He said there were no terror attacks during his presidency. In fact, there were multiple attacks. He said Iran didn't fund Hamas, Hezbollah, other terror groups under his presidency. Iran, in fact, did. He said Biden wants to quadruple people's taxes. That is pure fiction. He said the US has provided way more aid to Ukraine than Europe had. It's actually the opposite. He said the US has provided about $200 billion in Ukraine aid. It's closer to $110 billion.

He said 18 or 19 million people have crossed the border under Biden. That is millions too high. He said many of these migrants are from prisons or mental institutions. His own campaign cannot corroborate this. He said Biden has only created jobs for illegal immigrants. Total nonsense. He said Nancy Pelosi turned down his offer of 10,000 National Guard troops on January 6th. There's no evidence she even got such an offer. It was the president, not Pelosi, who had the power to deploy the DC Guard.

He said Pelosi now acknowledges she turned down the troops. Her office tells me this claim is still a lie. He said he deployed the National Guard to Minneapolis in 2020. Actually, that was the Democratic governor. He spoke of "ridiculous fraud" in the 2020 election. Zero evidence of any widespread fraud. He said NATO was going out of business before he took office. Completely, clearly absurd.

He said the US was paying a 100% of NATO before he came along. The US made up about 71% of NATO defense spending, not 100%. He said he, not Biden, is the one who lowered insulin prices in Medicare. He did it for some seniors, but Biden did it for far more. He said Biden indicted him. Again, no evidence Biden has had a personal role in any of these four prosecutions. He said Europe takes no US cars. Just not true.

He spoke of food prices quadrupling under Biden. That's a wild exaggeration, though they are up. He said Biden made up the idea he called dead service members suckers and losers. No, The Atlantic magazine reported that, and then former Trump chief of staff, John Kelly, corroborated it. He said Biden called Black people "super predators" for 10 years. Biden never once deployed that phrase, let alone for 10 years, though he did at least once speak of "predators" without specifying it was about Black people.

He said his Trump tax cut was the largest in US history. Not true. Though, in fairness, Biden also said this. Trump said China and others stopped buying from Iran under him. China never stopped. He revived his pet lie, I don't know how many times have done it, that he signed the Veterans Choice Program into law. Barack Obama did that in 2014. Trump signed an expanded version in 2018. Finally, Trump said Biden got rid of that veterans program. Biden has not done that.

Brian Lehrer: CNN's Daniel Dale, who was on the Trump's lies beat during the debate last night. I think he probably got overtime pay. We'll continue in a minute. Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

 

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