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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we're going to talk about the rollout both literally and figuratively of New York City's first official trash bin. Mayor Eric Adams and New York City sanitation Commissioner Jessica Tisch held a news conference last Friday in front of the mayor's home Gracie Mansion, where Adams held a large black trash bag down to the curb with the Alicia Keys song New York playing in the background, and dramatically placed the bag in the first-ever official New York City trash bin.

The city is soon going to require single-family homes and buildings, I should say, with up to nine residential units to use trash bins as opposed to piling trash bags on the curb, marking the next step of what Mayor Adams is calling New York City's trash revolution. Bigger buildings already have to do it. These new, city-sponsored bins cost about $50. That's cheaper than comparable retail bins, and they're now available online through the Sanitation Department.

It's worth mentioning that some of the city's publicity on these containerization efforts has sparked some jokes online because while many cities have been requiring their residents and businesses to put their trash in bins for a long time, but here in New York everything is always a bit more complicated. With us now to talk us through this trash revolution is New York City Sanitation Commissioner Jessica Tisch. Commissioner, always good to have you on the show. Welcome back to WNYC.

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Thank you for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, this is your opportunity to ask the sanitation commissioner any question you have about these new wheelie bins, or if you have thoughts on the city's recent containerization efforts, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Residents, owners, supers, anyone responsible for the trash in your building, or anyone with a question for the sanitation commissioner, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Just for people who didn't hear it, Commissioner, you want to recap your announcement with the mayor from last Friday, and what's exactly new here now?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Yes. Every year in New York City we put 16 billion pounds of trash out on our curbs, and the mayor wants all those black bags to go away. We have already put in place container requirements, wheelie bins for all of our business trash. Now we've announced we're starting to get to work on the residential trash. Starting November 12th of this year, all buildings with one to nine units, that means everything from the single-family home to the nine-unit brownstone, will be required to put their trash in a wheelie bin as opposed to directly out on the curb.

We are going to go far beyond the one to nine-unit buildings, but the news of last week was this mandate that all one to nine-unit buildings put their trash in a wheelie bin. We have also developed a gorgeous standardized wheelie bins for New York City that New Yorkers can buy at highly discounted rates. They have wheels. They are durable. They are rat-resistant. They have a latching lid, and they are available at bins.nyc.

Brian Lehrer: I may have made a mistake in the intro, correct me if I did. I said, larger buildings are already required, and so what's new is that you're extending it to nine units or lower. Is it really that you're starting with the smaller residential buildings?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: That's exactly right, Brian. We are starting our residential mandates with the smaller buildings. That's coming this fall. In the spring of 2025, so less than a year from now, we are going to be rolling out the on-street containers for the larger residential buildings starting in West Harlem.

Brian Lehrer: Tell me about the bins. Are they somehow different or better than the kinds of trash bins that a lot of people have been using for years? I think a lot of single-family homeowners already use bins and don't just put the bags out on the street, and other people have bins too. Is there something different about these?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: There's a few things that are different. First, they are much deeper than bins that you can get of similar quality on the market. The second thing that's different is they have a latch on the front of them that will allow us to do what we call mechanized collection. Instead of the sanitation workers having to lift every single black bag, they can put this new bin, and it's latched on to a tipper that will be installed on the back of the truck, and mechanically tip the container.

Brian Lehrer: Listener writes, "Does everyone need to buy the New York City trash can, or can we keep our existing ones if the design is comparable to the new ones?"

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: The great news for people who already have bins is you don't have to get rid of your bins now. You can keep your existing bin until June of 2026, that's about two years from now, as long as that bin is 55 gallons or less. Just to explain, the reason that we gave a two-year grace period to buy the official bin if you already have a bin, is we didn't want people to have to throw away brand new bins.

Brian Lehrer: Right. That's why two years. The reason for standardizing this is that the sanitation trucks that come around are, I don't know, mechanized in a way that can easily deal with the official bins?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Exactly. It will be much easier for our sanitation workers, much less tasking for our sanitation workers to put the trash in the back of the truck. Brian, this is huge for our workforce. Fully 50% of the injuries that we see line of duty at the Department of Sanitation are strains or sprains, and so this should really address that problem.

Brian Lehrer: Joe had the question we just answered. I'm going go to Paul in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Paul.

Paul: Hello. Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you.

Paul: Great. I manage a small building in Queens that has a store and a couple of apartments above the store. My question is, will I be able to leave these receptacles on the sidewalk because there's nowhere to store for these residential? It's above a store, there's no place to place the bin except on the sidewalk.

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Yes. Great news for you, we have been incredibly flexible in the way that we've drafted the rules about where the bins can be stored. Obviously, certainly, they can be stored indoors, but we understand that most people don't have space indoors. They can be stored along the property line. They can even be stored within three feet of the property line.

We did this because we know that every residential building, every business in the city is different, and each residents, each business has to come up with its own solution for where they're going to store these bins. We did try to be as flexible as possible in those rules.

Brian Lehrer: A related question, and Paul, thank you for your call, is in a text message here that says, "How much sidewalk space are we going to lose?"

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: We've now rolled out wheelie bins for all businesses in New York City. Business trash makes up 50% of the trash in the city. I would submit that we have not lost a tremendous amount of sidewalk space based on that rollout, which is now complete and we're seeing very high compliance. The one to nine-unit buildings represents about 20% of the total overall trash, so that will take our rollout from 50% already rolled out to 70%.

I don't think that you're going to see the amount of sidewalk space taken up significantly, eaten by this additional 20%.

Brian Lehrer: John in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with Sanitation Commissioner Jessica Tisch. Hi, John.

John: Thank you. Hello, Commissioner. I'm a landlord of multiple properties that are below nine units. My concern is that the housing law doesn't require me to have a live-in super because of the size of my building. I contract out a maintenance company. They bring out the bags to the sidewalk and they leave and go home. Now with these bins, if I put them out, someone is going to have to get paid to go back, make a second trip and put the bins back in the building. It's a two-part question.

My second part is, would it be lawful as a potential solution to have the wheelie bins chained onto the exterior of my property, and would the sanitation workers pull the bags out of there so I don't have to pay anyone to go back into the building and bring the wheelie bins back in. I hope you followed me.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, that's a fair question, because when you put the black trash bags out, they're gone once the truck comes around. The bins, you have to put them away. Does he have to hire somebody to do that if the collections take place in the middle of the night, or for that matter, at any time?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: The answer to that question is the status quo that we have accepted for the past 50 years in New York City just doesn't work. We put out 44 million pounds of trash every night directly on the street, a third of the material in those bags is food waste, and we wonder why we have a rat problem. Cities around the world have been containerizing their trash for decades.

New York City is the last major city that still dumps its trash on the curbs. It's got to change. We just got to modernize. We got to live in a more civilized way and bring dignity and order back to every street, every neighborhood, every borough in the city. Unfortunately, that requires people, businesses, residences to change their behavior on things that they do frequently, several times a week, every residence, every business, and that thing is how they set out the trash.

For each business, for each landlord, for each property owner, it's going to be a different answer. What is expected is that property owners will make the necessary accommodations to place their trash out in wheelie bins, just because the status quo hasn't been working. As to the question about chaining it up, the chains don't work. They cause tripping hazards on the street, so that is not authorized.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, if you're just joining us, we're talking to the New York City Sanitation Commissioner Jessica Tisch about the announcement that she and Mayor Adams made last Friday that the next phase of the containerization law for trash in New York City will take effect shortly.

That means that single-family homes and residential buildings up to nine units will start having to use these particular official New York City trash containers that are being rolled out. A listener writes, "Is there a plan for when we get curbside composting?" A related question from a listener who just asks, "Will there be recycling bins too?"

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Curbside composting, great news, we are rolling out citywide on the week of October 6th. In the boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens, every residence already gets weekly curbside composting service on their recycling day. That very same successful program is now coming to the rest of the city, to Manhattan, Bronx, and Staten Island. Again, that is the week of October 6th.

It will be a permanent program. No more stops and starts. Composting service will be a regular weekly service for every residence in the city. The question on recycling bins, if you go to bins.nyc-- I feel a little bit like Billy Mays here-- but they also sell recycling bins. Those are not required, but they are recommended, and we know that a lot of people want to have a matching set. You can also get recycling bins for metal, glass, plastic, and paper cardboard at bins.nyc.

Brian Lehrer: I'm sure you've seen online how some people are poking fun at the framing of this initiative as somehow revolutionary, when using trash bins isn't exactly a new idea. In fact, you just said that New York is the last major city to go to this system. One of the things we've seen online, there's a picture of the mayor with a wheelie bin. The tweet in this joke quotes the mayor saying, "Welcome to our trash revolution," as he unveils. Then he has to look down at his notes and says, "Oh, a trash can." Why did it take New York so long?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: It's a hard question to answer. Fortunately, Mayor Adams is the mayor of the City of New York, and he is not willing to accept the status quo. He wants to fix what is 20 years overdue in the city and restore dignity and order to our streets. I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on why didn't they do this in the past? I'm sure there are lots of reasons for it. I'm just happy that, moving forward, we are going to live differently in New York City because of it.

Brian Lehrer: Also, on the on the humor track, a listener texts, "Why are we completely overlooking the pun value of the roll out of wheelie bins?" Probably because it's not that funny, but I thought I would read that person's text anyway.

This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey Public Radio and live streaming at wnyc.org, taking your questions for New York City Sanitation Commissioner Jessica Tisch on the rollout of the new, official New York City wheelie bin or trash container. Nick in Bushwick has a question. Nick, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Nick: Hey, good morning. Thank you so much for taking my call. Commissioner, thank you so much for all the work you're doing. I had a question just about the general level of trash that's on the streets in Bushwick. It's quite difficult to get around without stepping over food and garbage, and construction waste that's been dumped, and doesn't seem to be anywhere to put that garbage.

There are no garbage cans on the street corners, or really, anywhere to put that trash. Is there any plan to get more public garbage cans out there for people to put their trash in while they're out and about?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: There's two different types of bins we're talking about. Brian and I have been talking about the bins for residential waste. I think this question is about litter baskets. Litter baskets are for walking trash, not the stuff that you throw out at home, like the coffee cup that you're walking down the street with and want to discard.

The great news there is that the mayor and the city council have made a historic investment in litter basket service in New York City, which means that we are running the highest level of litter basket service that we have ever run with more litter baskets on the streets than there have ever been. We've also developed a brand new, we call it, litter basket of the future that is rat resistant.

Historically, you see those mesh, greenish litter baskets that all the rats can dig into. This new litter basket that we are rolling out citywide is one that is rat resistant. That is the plan for litter baskets. Obviously, we're always interested if there is a specific area of the city that doesn't have enough litter baskets, in understanding what the need is there. We can get your information from Brian's producers and drill down on what part of Bushwick you're addressing.

Brian Lehrer: Nick, you can leave your contact information off-the-air, if you'd like. We tend to talk about the city's trash issues in relation to the rat issues. As the mayor put it, containerization will end the rat buffet. We know at the beginning of COVID, the rat situation really got out of control. Have you seen any substantial effects on the rat population as we've started adopting these containerization policies over the past year, the beginning of this rollout?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Yes. We've seen very promising data on it. When we started with the mandates on containers, our first dabble into it, for the next year, 12 out of the 13 months, we saw rat numbers go down in New York City. Historically, Brian, rat numbers only go one direction, and that's up. That was incredible data to see. We're also doing a pilot up in Hamilton Heights on 10 residential blocks of on-street containers. On those 10 blocks, in the first few months of that pilot, we saw rat complaints go down 68%.

That is the program for the large, high-density buildings that we are going to be expanding next spring and bringing to all of Manhattan Community Board 9. That's where you're going to see the huge drops in the rat numbers, in my opinion.

Brian Lehrer: Annie in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with the sanitation commissioner. Hi, Annie. Annie, you there? Annie, once--

Annie: Hi, can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: Hi, yes.

Annie: Hi. Thank you so much for addressing this. It addresses so many problems modernizing and containerizing the garbage. I have a question, once we replace our old bins with the new rolly bins, how do we recycle our garbage cans?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Oh, that's a great question, and we have gotten that a bunch. Thank you for the opportunity to say it to Brian's whole audience. You leave it out, and you turn it upside down on its head. Even better, extra points for leaving a little sticky or sticking something on there that says for recycling. If you just leave it out, turned it on its head on your recycling day, the sanitation workers know to collect it.

Brian Lehrer: Hope that answers your question, Annie. Ed in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ed.

Ed: Yes. Hi. This is a great topic and one of major concern. I live in a two-resident household and there's senior peoples who live in the other unit. I'm just wondering why didn't buildings that have nine or more occupants start first? Then regarding stolen bins, what are small dwellings like us supposed to do? Businesses chain their bins up to bike racks and other poles. If that's not going to be a option for smaller buildings, that's a big, big challenge.

Regarding the food waste, not investing in composting programs would address the food waste issues, and consideration on a larger scale needs to happen, not on a smaller individual basis.

Brian Lehrer: Thanks, Ed. Commissioner, few concerns there.

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Yes. I'll start with the first, why are we starting with the small residences? Mayor Adams is very clear. He's going after 100% of the trash, whether it be from small residences, large residences and businesses. We actually started with the businesses. We have different solutions for the small residences, which are the wheelie bins and the large residences, which are the fixed on street containers. Both are moving in parallel; one begins in the fall, the other begins in the spring. It's really just a question of when that solution was ready for action.

As to the question on stealing of the bins, what I would say is New York City is not going to be the first city to containerize its trash and to use wheelie bins. In fact, we are going to be one of the last, if not the last. This isn't something that we are piloting or making a market for here. This is something that has been done and tested around the world and has been in place for decades.

My expectation is that this program is going to work. There's obviously an existing process if any property is stolen, to report it to the NYPD. The bins also come with a serial number and an RFID. If we find a bin on the street, we can scan it and know whose it is and where to give it back. This is definitely about restoring dignity and order to our streets.

I think the final question was about composting. It is true that if we get the food waste out of the black bags and into compost bins, that that will make a real dent on the rat problem in New York City. We are not just going after rats with this initiative. We are going after restoring cleanliness to our streets. No one wants at the end of a long workday or when they're walking their kids home from school, or they're bringing their kids to school, to see bags of oozing garbage on the ground. They don't want the odors in the summer.

We're going after both the food waste, and the actual refuse for lots of different reasons, which is why composting doesn't solve the problem or absolve us of the need to containerize our trash.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. By the way, I'm curious if what you've been hearing from people tracks what we've been getting here on the phones and on the text messages, so many text messages with so many questions as we run out of time in a minute. We've gotten to as many as we could. Maybe a quarter, one out of every four by far, the most commonly asked question is about the risk of these things being stolen because of the past experience of these containers actually being stolen. Does that comport with what you're hearing from the public?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Yes. We've definitely heard that concern. We also heard that concern when we rolled out the requirement that businesses put their trash in wheelie bins. We have not seen concerning numbers of reports of problems there. Obviously, if any property is stolen, it is important to report that to the NYPD. My other sense on this is, once these bins become ubiquitous, there won't really be as much of a market for secondhand bins. I just think that this is an important program to move forward with for the city for many different reasons.

Brian Lehrer: Would you just remind people again, of who is required to do what by when, in conjunction with this announcement?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Every residence from the one unit single-family home, up to the nine unit brownstone. Every residence, one to nine units required to put their trash in containers starting November 12th. You can get a great, high quality, durable, rat resistant bin online for about $50 at www.bins.nyc.

Brian Lehrer: Can I get one off-topic comment from you before you go, about the recent resignation of FDNY Commissioner Laura Kavanagh, which was contentious, and before that, New York City Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell. A lot of the conversations about their resignations has been focused on gender and the challenges that come with being a woman running traditionally male run departments. Sanitation certainly fits in that category.

What would you say about that particular challenge in your experience of being a woman running the sanitation department?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: I have served my 17-year career in New York City government in largely male dominated organizations. I started at the NYPD, I then ran the tech department in the city for a few years, and now I'm at sanitation. What I say is we've been spending the past 30 minutes talking about a trash revolution, something that we are pushing forward that no one else has been able to do in the city for the past 50 years. That is only possible because I have the full support of Mayor Adams.

Containerizing the trash would be a no-go if it wasn't something that the mayor was fully behind. I have enjoyed a great working relationship with the mayor, and certainly his full support in pushing forward this revolutionary change that's going to restore dignity and order on our streets

Brian Lehrer: Down the chain, all these guys who work as sanitation department workers?

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: I love the sanitation department. The sanitation workers are heroes. They don't often get the credit for being local heroes, but they are just that. They take 24 million pounds of trash off of our streets every day so that we can live a cleaner life than we otherwise would, and a healthier life than we otherwise would. They have been wonderful to work with and are to be celebrated.

Brian Lehrer: New York City Sanitation Commissioner Jessica Tisch, thank you so much for coming on and taking so many calls from listeners.

Commissioner Jessica Tisch: Thank you for having me.

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