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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We're mostly covering the elections on the show this week, as many of you know, but not only today. I'll tell you why in a minute. On the election, we'll talk about jobs and wages as an issue in the New York City mayoral race in our 30 Issues in 30 Days election series. We'll have a call in later for any of you who are undecided in any race for New York City mayor, for New Jersey governor, Nassau County executive, or DA, Jim McGreevey, come back yes or no for Jersey City mayor, any of the ballot questions you're undecided about.

We tried to clarify the housing-related ones in New York City yesterday with almost an hour of yesterday's show. I think it left some people even more confused, to be really candid, because they're complicated issues. The call-in will be if you're undecided between two candidates or if, like some people I've been hearing from, you're undecided between one candidate or not voting at all. That's all coming up. We have to break from the election coverage to begin the program today. We're putting it first because it looks like a hunger emergency is about to hit the United States. That sounds like hyperbole, right?

As you may have heard, this is the latest thing coming from a Trump administration decision on how to manage the government shutdown. The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, also known as SNAP, of course, or food stamps, will be cut off from federal funds by this Saturday, November 1st. That could leave 42 million Americans without their food benefits for the month of November.

Now, the Trump administration says it will not trigger a contingency fund, or it won't tap a contingency fund or other nutrition programs to fund SNAP. The Department of Agriculture, which administers SNAP, said in a memo that it cannot tap the contingency fund because it's reserved for emergencies such as natural disasters. Some people disagree with that conclusion, however.

Also in that memo, the legally questionable partisan blame game resurfaced in a government document. It says, "This administration will not allow Democrats to jeopardize funding for school meals and infant formula in order to prolong their shutdown." Democrats, of course, blame the Republicans for it. The stalemate goes on. Who will depriving people of food benefit politically? That's one of the questions in play. Of course, the much bigger one that we need to address is, how are people going to eat?

Now, in New York State, on Friday, anticipating this, Governor Kathy Hochul announced $11 million in state funding for emergency food relief. That's not going to go onto your EBT cards. We'll explain what it would do. The state estimates 2.8 million low-income New Yorkers will see cuts to SNAP benefits if this goes through on Saturday.

In other parts of our listening area, it's estimated that 9% of New Jerseyans will be impacted, 9% of everybody in New Jersey. That's over 820,000 people, according to Patch, not to mention the grocers, farmers' markets, and others who accept SNAP benefits payments and local food banks that provide supplemental food assistance, especially this time of year, as the holiday season begins, which will see demand mushroom maybe exponentially, as we'll discuss.

Joining us on all this, both the national and local implications if the government does not intervene in some way to fund food assistance, are Grace Yarrow, food and agriculture policy reporter for POLITICO, and author of POLITICO Pro's daily Morning Agriculture newsletter. How many of you in Queens read that? I'm kidding. Karen Yi, WNYC and Gothamist reporter covering homelessness and poverty. Grace, welcome to WNYC. Karen, always good of you to come on the show. Hi.

Grace Yarrow: Hey, Brian.

Karen Yi: Hi, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, this is for you, too, for sure. If you rely on SNAP benefits for your meals, how are you preparing for the month ahead? 212-433-WNYC. Tell us your story. If you rely on SNAP benefits for your meals, have you gotten your heads around this yet? How are you starting to prepare for the month ahead? 212-433-9692, call or text.

What do you wish the government or other listeners knew about SNAP benefits and how much you rely on them? Maybe you work or volunteer at a food pantry or soup kitchen. Are you already starting to see an increase, hearing from the people you serve, perhaps that are beginning to worry, even though the cuts to them haven't taken effect yet, or any questions you might have for the local or national reporters on this story? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Of course, you can also text that number.

Grace, let's do some more stats first for our listeners. One in eight low-income Americans nationwide rely on the program. That's one in eight Americans. According to Scripps News, 62% of participants in the program have young children. Most SNAP recipients have kids at home who would be affected. Another 37% are families with older adults or people who are disabled. How many Americans could be impacted, beginning on Saturday, if the government doesn't fund SNAP?

Grace Yarrow: Brian, thanks for the question. As you said, all of the statistics are exactly what is adding to the pressure here in Washington to figure something out, figure out whether that's a congressional funding patch for SNAP to just keep the program afloat for a little bit longer. The pressure, as you mentioned, on the Trump administration to find some money or tap that contingency fund to keep the program going. I mean, there's a lot of worry. We've heard from a lot of SNAP participants who are especially concerned. Food banks are nervous. They're already seeing increased demand.

Typically, in November, December, around the holiday season, those food banks, food pantries already have increased demand during the holidays, and when children are home from school and don't receive free and reduced price lunches. We could see a really big level of hunger just totally spike starting Saturday. We'll see how that impacts folks here in Washington. I think it's top of mind for everybody.

Brian Lehrer: I think a big question here is, how optional a decision is the Trump administration making? You report that the USDA, the Agriculture Department, does have access to a contingency fund for SNAP that currently holds $5 billion. As I mentioned in the intro, the Trump administration has said it will not tap those funds. Why not? How much flexibility do they have, according to your reporting?

Grace Yarrow: This is the big partisan fight in Washington over this right now. USDA has never tapped that contingency fund for SNAP before. This is really unprecedented in terms of letting SNAP benefits expire during a shutdown. There's not a lot to go off of. The administration people have pointed to their previous contingency plan at USDA for a shutdown, showing that they have the option to tap that contingency fund.

The administration said, as you mentioned over the weekend in a memo to state agencies, and just saying that they aren't able to actually tap that fund. That has been followed with a lot of legal questions. Democrats in Congress are concerned and don't believe that that is legally sound. We've seen GOP lawmakers on the Hill and leaders back the Trump administration's decision on that and say that they think it's legally sound.

Brian Lehrer: For people who happen to hear Morning Edition this morning, and Karen, we'll get to you in a minute for some of the local take, but Grace, for people who happen to hear Morning Edition today, there was a guest involved in food aid distribution, like food banks and food pantries and stuff around the country, who was saying that the Trump administration has found other ways to tap money for things that they do want to keep funding during the shutdown.

Some of those are not so specifically earmarked that they were able to be flexible in those ways. They could have done something like that here, but they're choosing not to, presumably because they think using people's meals as a pawn is going to help them put pressure on the Democrats politically. Do you have any sense of other ways to fund this, or what the rules really are?

Grace Yarrow: Yes. That is kind of the question, given that, and what I think you're getting at, too, with the WIC program for Women, Infants, and Children, that anti-hunger program, the Trump administration used some old, unused tariff revenue to patch that over. WIC is also facing a funding cliff starting around Saturday because that funding patch of around $300 million only lasted the program about two weeks.

In contrast, the SNAP program to provide benefits for November would need nearly $9 billion, which is a ton of money for them to scrounge up. However, as we were saying, they do have this $5 billion contingency fund. There is some money, but there's not enough money even if they were to tap it to get through November. Given how discussions are going on the Hill, it's not clear if we're even close to resolution in terms of reopening the government and getting those benefits back. It could be necessary to find some sort of federal funding patch for SNAP for more than a couple of weeks.

Brian Lehrer: Karen, let me turn to you. On Friday, Governor Hochul added $11 million to the New York State program that administers SNAP or funds SNAP for the month of November coming up. Can you talk about where that money is coming from, or crucially, how much of people's benefits in New York State that will actually cover?

Karen Yi: This is actually state funding that will go to local food banks and pantries. SNAP benefits, historically, have always been covered, the actual benefit have always been covered by the federal government. That's going to change in the future, but the $11 million that she announced, and then yesterday, she announced another $30 million, this will just fast track money to help food pantries and help feed, I think it's something like 16 million meals for New Yorkers.

This is something, but SNAP is just such a huge program, and there's really no way that states and cities can really replace it. This is a statistic that folks at Hunger Free America have given me. Basically, they told me that SNAP equals 17 times the dollar amount that's distributed by every charity in New York. This $41 million, if you take the 11 and the 30 million that Hochul announced, is really a small amount of what's needed here.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, again, if you rely on SNAP benefits for any of your meals or if you know anyone who does, or we also invite people who work in the, let's say, food security volunteer sector, anybody from the Food Bank for New York City, City Harvest, New Jersey equivalents, anybody want to weigh in on what you're anticipating or anybody with your own personal family situations, as this cutoff of SNAP benefits from the federal government seems likely to take effect on Saturday as of now. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. You can call or you can text for our guests from the WNYC newsroom and POLITICO.

Karen, how many New Yorkers rely on SNAP benefits? Well, just answer that question if you have a number, and then I'm going to ask you about New Jersey.

Karen Yi: In the state, it's about 3 million people in the state that rely on SNAP. Then, in the city, which takes up the greatest share, it's about two thirds, it's 1.8 million people who live in the city. That's one in five New Yorkers who rely on SNAP. Just to put a finer point on these numbers, a lot of people who are using SNAP are kids, are children. There's more than half a million kids who rely on the program. Then you have, I think, a third of people who have a disability, and then I think it's about another third of older adults. When we talk about who's on SNAP, a lot of it is this is the way that families are eating.

Brian Lehrer: Listener writes, "Money for ICE, no money for food for people in need." Karen, New Jersey, is Governor Murphy doing something similar to Governor Hochul in terms of funneling state money into the programs for food relief as a stopgap?

Karen Yi: He hasn't announced any sort of fast-tracking or additional money for food pantries. What is interesting about New Jersey, which is a state I used to cover for a long time, is that during the pandemic, the federal government rolled out additional pandemic-era aid. For SNAP benefits, the monthly minimum for a household went up to $95. That was the least amount you could receive.

Around 2023, those pandemics started to roll off. Those pandemic era benefits ended. That's when you started to see a spike in food pantries and the need coming back. What New Jersey did is they actually subsidized the rest of them. Because the monthly minimum now went down to $50 in New Jersey, Governor Murphy signed a bill saying, "Okay, we as a state, we're going to commit to a household having at least $95 in benefits every month." The state subsidizes the remainder.

What's going to happen in New Jersey, say, the benefits are cut off November 1st, New Jersey people on SNAP, the federal portion, they won't receive that, but they might receive the New Jersey portion. There's about 32,000 households that receive this state supplement per the New Jersey law. New Jersey was really the first state in the nation to set a standard minimum monthly benefit.

Brian Lehrer: Listener writes, "Patriots care about the well-being of those in this country fund SNAP." Mitchell in the Bronx has a question. Mitchell, you're on WNYC. Hi there.

Mitchell: Hi, good morning. Thanks a lot for taking my call. I depend largely on my SNAP benefits and I have managed to scrounge a small amount saved up on my EBT card. I don't know how the system works. I was wondering, will that money still be there since I saved it, or no, it'll be wiped out?

Brian Lehrer: Grace, can you answer that question? Because I think that's a national angle question.

Grace Yarrow: Hi there.

Mitchell: Hi.

Grace Yarrow: I don't think that they are able to roll over. I am not 100% sure. I would maybe reach out to USDA, whoever is-- I don't know if people are even taking calls since the government shut down. My understanding is that they--

Mitchell: No, I have not been able to get through to them.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, you've tried to get through, huh, and you couldn't even get through?

Grace Yarrow: Oh my goodness.

Brian Lehrer: Karen, do you have anything on that? Because I think, to be perfectly honest, and we hear Grace is uncertain, I thought I heard the opposite, that if there is money on your EBT card, you can use it.

Karen Yi: Yes, I believe you can, because basically, your SNAP benefit for the month gets rolled out onto your debit-like card, the EBT card. If you don't use it for that month, you have it for the following month. It kind of just accumulates there until there's no more money. It's just every month you get your allotment added. You should be able to use that amount, Mitchell.

Brian Lehrer: Our crack team of 45 researchers, well-known producer on her phone-

Karen Yi: Yes, thanks for the fact check. [laughs]

Brian Lehrer: -just looked it up and says, according to the National Council on Aging, as one source, it does roll over. At least you have that. Mitchell, have you thought yet about--

Mitchell: Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: You're very welcome. Have you thought yet about how else you might compensate if you run out of that rollover money?

Mitchell: I have. I'm handicapped, so I have some people that twice a week drop some food off. I'm hoping that I'll be able to survive on that.

Brian Lehrer: I hope so, too. Mitchell, thank you very much. Feel free to call again and let us know how this is going and reach out if you need to. One listener in Jersey writes, "We welcome new patrons to our food pantry, which is an agency of the Community FoodBank of New Jersey in Lodi, 95 Washington Street in Lodi. Open this Saturday, November 1st, 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM. That's the first day that this SNAP cutoff would take effect. Please bring ID and your two shopping bags if you have them," writes Janice, the director, as she identifies herself.

There you go. There's one resource for people in or around Lodi, the Community FoodBank of New Jersey, 95 Washington street in Lodi. Karen, isn't that heartwarming, at least that, somebody writing in right away to say here's a place you can go for food?

Karen Yi: Yes, absolutely. I think food pantries are bracing for what's to come and trying to figure out how best to help people, especially for people maybe who are not mobile or maybe can't get to some of these locations that deliver food. I do get a sense that everyone's trying to band together and think creatively about how you even try to ease the harm a little bit.

Brian Lehrer: I guess we should be clear that most of this money that Governor Hochul is setting aside at the state level to compensate for the potential cutoff in SNAP benefits doesn't go onto your EBT card; it goes to places like soup kitchens and food pantries just so they will be able to stock up as much as possible to meet the need, right?

Karen Yi: Yes, exactly.

Brian Lehrer: Let's see. Eugenia in Manhattan has a story and, I think, a question. Eugenia, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Brian: Hello.

Brian Lehrer: Hello.

Brian: Hello.

Brian Lehrer: Hello.

Brian: Name is Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, okay. Sorry, I had a whole other name for you, so I apologize.

Brian: No, no, no, no. She called for me.

Brian Lehrer: Okay.

Brian: I am hypoglycemic and I got maybe a week's worth of supply, food-wise. I just got out of the hospital. How long ago?

Eugenia: Four days ago.

Brian: Four days ago. If the state poses a problem--

Brian Lehrer: You receive SNAP benefits, Brian?

Brian: Yes, unfortunately.

Brian Lehrer: What are you going to do? Does Eugenia, who I hear in the background, have any strategies yet, or do you?

Brian: Oh, I got one.

Brian Lehrer: Go ahead.

Brian: Find me a new store and start fucking robbing.

Brian Lehrer: Okay. Listeners, he went to a curse word, which is understandable in his situation, I might say, but, of course, we can't let it on the air, so we had to dump that call. Geez, Karen, that's the level of desperation we're hearing. Here's clearly elderly and sick person who says they rely on SNAP benefits, have just a few days of food resources before their benefits run out and they would need the next infusion of money. Hypoglycemic, he says, which indicates, when you need food, even on a very short-term basis, you need it now. What's the best advice you can give to somebody like that?

Karen Yi: It's really hard because SNAP is hard to replace. A lot of these benefits, both the other caller, Mitchell, and Brian, they seem to have a little bit left over toward the end of the month, but usually, it's not a lot of money. This money goes away within one or two trips to the store. As food prices get more expensive, your SNAP doesn't go as far. I think people have already been maybe saving up a little bit more, buying less food at the store, sort of worried about what's to come. I think the only option is really to visit your local food pantry, which people on SNAP already do. SNAP is supplemental. SNAP does not cover everyone's food income for the month.

The way people patch together their meals for the month for their families is they use SNAP at the grocery store. Then, toward the end of the month or in between, they fill in the gaps by going to the food pantry. I spoke to one woman who said, "Before I was on SNAP, I used to visit the food pantry five or six times a month. Now I visit two to three times a month." She still uses it. I think what this is going to create is just so much more pressure on food pantries, so much more pressure on this last line of defense, where people can get food at whatever organization in their neighborhood provides it.

I wish I had better advice for people like Brian and Mitchell. There is a lot of desperation and concern about what will happen when people can't afford to feed themselves or their kids. Remember, the people spend these dollars in the local economy. You can really only spend it at grocery stores, bodegas, farmers' markets. There is a secondary ripple effect that's going to happen, too, in these communities.

Brian Lehrer: We have some great calls and texts coming in. We have to take a break. We'll continue in a minute. Chris from The Bowery Mission, which serves hundreds of people a day, we're going to take your call. Somebody else wondering how individuals can help if we're really entering into a breadlines food emergency in America when SNAP benefits get cut off beginning Saturday, as the Trump administration has announced that they will be if the government shutdown continues. We're going to continue to try to proactively, preemptively solve this problem for as many of you as we can, as we continue in this lead segment of the show today. Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we continue on the latest turn in the government shutdown, which is going to be literally life or death for some people, I would think, because it is a end for the moment to federal SNAP benefits going out, food stamps, if you want to call it by the old name, beginning on Friday, on Saturday, I should say, November 1st. The SNAP benefits for the month of November will not go out. Part of the political debate is if this is really necessary, aren't there emergency funds that the government could tap to keep this, of all things, flowing onto people's EBT cards and then into their mouths with basic nutrition? The Trump administration says no.

There's the political blame game going on one way and the other from Democrats and Republicans. We are talking about what it might actually mean nationally and locally and how people can compensate in the meantime with Grace Yarrow, food and agriculture policy reporter for POLITICO, and WNYC's Karen Yi, who covers homelessness and poverty. We're inviting your stories and questions about yourself, about services you provide if you work at or volunteer at a food bank or a soup kitchen or anything else or questions for yourself or your loved ones who may be affected by this. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Chris in Crown Heights, who volunteers at The Bowery Mission in Lower Manhattan, I see. Hi, Chris, you're on WNYC.

Chris: Hi, Brian. I did want to share we are seeing increased numbers of folks who are food insecure looking for meal options. The Bowery Mission is one of several places that we volunteered over the years. They do serve breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Most of the staff is volunteers like us. If anyone's looking to donate their time and help our families and neighbors who are food insecure, you can help in the kitchen, you can help serve meals, and try to close the gap. There are other opportunities like the Xavier Mission. There's Marvia, there's Vision, Urbana, and there's pantries throughout the kitchen. You can find them on newyorkcares.com or .org.

Brian Lehrer: Why do you think you've been seeing an uptick recently already in advance of the SNAP benefits being cut off?

Chris: Well, most people's benefits, the theory is, run out towards the end of the month. It is pretty standard to see fewer people at the beginning of the month when they're getting their benefits. The thought is, if people are able to save their funds and buy essential groceries they can't get elsewhere, then ideally, they're getting their meals from services like ours.

Brian Lehrer: Chris, thank you for your work and thank you for your call. I read a text earlier from somebody shouting out the Community FoodBank of New Jersey in Lodi, and it looks like the CEO of the Community FoodBank of New Jersey is calling in. Elizabeth, you're on WNYC. Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: Thanks for taking my call.

Brian Lehrer: What can you tell us?

Elizabeth: We are seeing a massive surge already, as the previous caller said, even leading up to this, and getting phone calls from schools that families are nervous. I think word is spreading very quickly. I don't want to use the word panic because that might be too strong, but people definitely have a lot of anxiety about where they're going to be able to feed their families.

Brian Lehrer: How are you going to get enough food to feed the increased demand?

Elizabeth: We're doing some targeted fundraisers, which usually work well for us. We're lucky we have a very big support base. We are talking to the state of New Jersey, hoping to see if there's some assistance we can get there as well.

Brian Lehrer: Karen, not to put you on the spot, but just to give you an opportunity because you don't only cover poverty and homelessness throughout the New York region, you were a specific New Jersey reporter for WNYC for a while. Do you have any questions for Elizabeth from the Community FoodBank of New Jersey while she's on? Maybe you have questions that, on your beat, I'm not thinking to ask.

Karen Yi: It's interesting. I wonder, Elizabeth, have you already seen an increase? What I've heard from food banks here in New York City is, even prior to this conversation, they were already seeing an increase in demand from people, just because of the affordability crisis. I'm curious if you guys are already feeling the squeeze, and now that pressure is even going to pile on even more in the coming weeks?

Elizabeth: Absolutely. Food insecurity has been at an all-time high, and we've seen about a 40% drop in the food that we get from the federal government. In addition to cuts of our staff that came with the passing of H.R.1, I had to lay off about 30 people connected to that. We've seen a big drop in the food, too. Yes, we're definitely feeling the strain, even separate and apart from the SNAP issue.

Brian Lehrer: Is there something that you want Governor Murphy to do, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth: Look, in New Jersey, we're very lucky. The state of New Jersey has done more for food insecurity than almost any other state, so I'm confident that the governor will do something. We are in conversation with the state about the best way to respond to this. We'll probably be doing some large-scale distributions in some counties. We did one yesterday at Newark Airport for the TSA workers that was very successful. We anticipate that we'll be doing a lot more of that.

Brian Lehrer: Elizabeth, thank you so much for your work and for your call. Well, here's somebody who might need a distribution. Doug in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Doug.

Doug: Hi, Brian. Thank you for taking my call. I'm having surgery on November 11th. I'm having my hip replaced, and I was counting on being able to go to the grocery store and prepare my meals for when I get home from the hospital. I don't really have a way to get to the food pantries. I mean, I went to the food pantry a couple of weeks ago because SNAP benefits don't always cut it all the way to the end of the month. It's a lot of standing in line, which is very difficult for my-- I'm having my hip replaced.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Well, good luck with the surgery. I know people who have done it, and it's gone very well. They've come back better than ever. Karen, to his situation and others like it, do food pantries deliver?

Karen Yi: I don't believe a lot of them do because if you just go to a food pantry, you see the lines. People are waiting in line, 3:00, 4:00 in the morning just to be able to get some food. Everybody wants the protein, so they go there early. I'd have to do some more research depending on where Doug is. I do know that DoorDash, they announced they were waiving fees if you're buying your groceries through SNAP. If Doug, you have a little bit left on your EBT card, that might be an option for you. I know they announced it this week.

Brian Lehrer: A listener just texted something that might be an answer for Doug or a partial answer. It says, "Meals on Wheels is so organized for delivering meals." Do you know if they're involved? Grace, I'll ask you on the national level as well, but Karen, locally, do you know if Meals on Wheels is getting ready to ramp up for this in any particular way for people who are permanently or will be temporarily homebound, like Doug in the Bronx?

Karen Yi: Yes, Meals on Wheels is a really great resource. It's run by a network of nonprofits. Encore is one around Midtown. Doug, you said, I think, you're in the Bronx. Yes, absolutely, that is a resource you should look into.

Brian Lehrer: Grace, anything to add on that or delivery of any kind?

Grace Yarrow: Yes. I was just going to say, I know Meals on Wheels nationally has, since the start of the shutdown, really called on Congress to figure out a way out of it, because they're worried about a number of things, including really long wait lists, which I would imagine are only going to get worse going into November once these programs ran out of funding.

Brian Lehrer: I'm told that another New York City example is God's Love We Deliver, which, right in the name, it tells you that they deliver. They're in Soho. At least one of their locations is in Soho. Their websites say that they cook and home-deliver nutritious, medically tailored meals for people living with severe and chronic illness. Maybe God's Love We Deliver reaches up to the Bronx. Doug, you might check them out. Good luck with your hip surgery. Michelle in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Michelle.

Michelle: Hi there. Nice to be on.

Brian Lehrer: Glad you called. You have a whole other wrinkle to this, don't you?

Michelle: I do. I run a pet food pantry for seniors. Our primary focus is senior citizens. What happens when seniors can't afford to pay their pets is one of two things. They share their food with their pets, or they eat their pets' food as well. Also, the dogs and cats end up getting surrendered when they can't afford to pay for food.

Brian Lehrer: Another tragedy that might occur, as I guess you could call it, a one-step downstream result of cutting off SNAP benefits in the government shutdown. Grace, do you deal at all on your beat with, I guess it isn't SNAP benefits for pets per se, but any kind of benefits or ways that people who need SNAP benefits feed their pets?

Grace Yarrow: I wish I had a better answer. I know SNAP can't be used for pet food, so it's wonderful that you guys provide that food. I wish there was a better answer to a lot of this. There's just so many levels to this. Lawmakers are telling me that they're hearing these exact concerns from their constituents. I would recommend always reaching out to your lawmakers and putting the pressure on just so that they're aware of the situation, because here in Washington, it seems like some of them are disconnected from the reality on the ground.

Brian Lehrer: A number of texts are coming in supporting mutual aid groups and attempts. One of them says, "Hi. At West Brooklyn Mutual Aid, we shop and deliver for our neighbors. You can set up small recurring donations, and all the money goes to groceries. Mutual aid is a great example of the solidarity that will help all of us weather this kind of crisis."

Karen, I'm sure you remember that mutual aid groups sprung up at the beginning of COVID when food delivery was a problem, and we're getting food. They were picking up food, the members were one way or another, and delivering it, especially to homebound seniors who, at the beginning of the pandemic, were afraid to even go outside. Mutual aid is another avenue. I wonder how people can find out where there are local mutual aid groups in their area.

Michelle: Yes, absolutely. What I get the sense is that everyone is ready to give and try to find a way to help. Actually, we featured Michelle on a story that we did on pet affordability. We featured New York Common Pantry, which actually is one of the few pantries in the city that also offers pet food. Then the River Fund in Queens also offers pet food. Those are two resources for listeners.

After we ran our story, the New York Common Pantry said they got a flood of pet food donations. I think there is this willingness to sort of help each other out and help your neighbors. I would be curious if we see this resurgence of mutual aid groups, which, really, many of them became permanent right after COVID. They spread through word of mouth and Facebook and someone in the community knowing someone else. It was very organic. I imagine similarly will happen.

It's just about getting to know who in your community is doing this kind of work. Even if that's informal, maybe collecting a couple of cans, collecting maybe a meal train, or some hot meals for neighbors, even in your building, maybe starting small. Any little bit helps, I think, for people who are trying to make it through the day and eat.

Brian Lehrer: I mentioned a listener before who texted, they have money for ICE but not for food. Another caller, who we're not going to have time to put on the air, but I'm going to shout out his content, says, "Trump money to Argentina." Of course, this is a recent announcement. The US is sending, I don't remember the exact number of millions of dollars, or was it billions of dollars, to Argentina to help President Milei there, who is an ally of President Trump, but not for food for Americans. Another listener texts, "I'd like to hear from Trump supporters who are seemingly okay with this suspension of SNAP benefits."

Grace, let me ask you, is there political pressure in advance of this Saturday cutoff on the Trump administration from Republicans? Because we know that just like with some Republicans turning on them for the reductions in Medicaid that are forthcoming in the so-called big beautiful bill, a lot of Republican areas, of course, have people on SNAP as well. Is there pressure beginning to mount on them from Trump supporters, or is Republican world largely okay with this?

Grace Yarrow: Yes, it's a good question. I think a lot of GOP lawmakers are, and staff on the Hill, even who are fielding these calls from constituents, are privately very worried. They're still trying to pass some kind of a Senate bill that would patch up SNAP. They're focusing on that publicly. Given the time frame, because the Senate is potentially not even going to work on Friday, they would have to introduce that bill pretty much today. There's not really a plan to move forward with that in time. The House, as many of you know, has been gone for about five weeks now. They would have to call all their lawmakers back to be able to stave this off.

I think once the reality sinks in that there is not really going to be a congressional solution to this, likely, at least in the short term, I think you'll see a little bit more Republican outcry and a lot of concern. They're already concerned, but generally blaming Democrats for not coming to the table on the CR.

Brian Lehrer: Right. People might blame Democrats for not coming to the table, as you say, on the CR that is continuing last fiscal year's budget temporarily, so everything continues to go forward while they negotiate changes for the future. Maybe people will blame Democrats for that, and maybe people will blame Republicans. I think the issue now is, as you say, it's too late already for Congress to come back and get anything done, no matter which side compromises more in advance of November 1st, which is Saturday, when the SNAP benefits would be at least temporarily suspended.

The pressure really comes, I think, first, Grace, on the Trump administration, or the relevant question begins, will they find the money to keep funding SNAP benefits in the meantime, while the negotiations continue and the blame game goes on, right?

Grace Yarrow: Yes. I have not seen a lot of indication. I know the White House has found ways to fund troop pay and WIC, but they've really dug their heels in on this. If you go to like USDA's website, they have blamed Democrats for voting against that funding bill that Republicans passed 12 times. It's the banner on the top of the website. I just think they are very stubborn on it. Of course, that could change, as we've seen a lot of these things change really quickly.

As of right now, I don't know. It's hard to see a path forward from the Trump administration. There are some Democratic attorney general in a number of states who are planning to sue the Trump administration over this. The legal challenge could maybe help release some of that fund.

Brian Lehrer: Maybe they get an injunction.

Grace Yarrow: Yes. At this point, it would still lead to delays, likely, even if that were to result in loosening of some federal funds. It's hard to see how they're able to avert this.

Brian Lehrer: Grace, let me ask you one longer-term question because I see that another story is that the Agriculture Department, which, again, administers the SNAP benefits, announced on Saturday that it will end its long-standing annual food insecurity survey, calling it redundant, costly, politicized, and extraneous. Now, we've talked on this show about various measures of health that they're not going to measure anymore, various measures of the economy that they're not going to measure anymore. Are you familiar with this one? They're going to stop having an annual food insecurity survey at all?

Grace Yarrow: Yes. This is another thing that, even before the shutdown, was a big concern among anti-hunger groups that we talked to. They were actually supposed to, I believe it was this week, maybe last week at this point. I think it was last week, yes. They were supposed to release that last hunger survey, which would be the last one forever, I guess, since they're canceling it, and Secretary Rollins at USDA said that because of the shutdown, they aren't going to release it. We'll see if they end up releasing it once the government is reopened.

Even that data that was already collected and probably largely ready to publish isn't going up. A lot of anti-hunger groups that we've talked to have said they're trying to prevent data from showing increased hunger, and it'll make it even harder for someone like me to see the long-term data of what this looming food crisis could mean for hunger. That's just an added layer of not really having all the facts going into this.

Brian Lehrer: Just one closing word of advice or two, really, thoughts on what you can do if you're in this position yourself. One listener writes, "As a retired social worker, highly recommend people call their local elected officials' offices for info regarding resources." That's a good idea, not just to lobby them to do one thing or another politically, but local elected officials at various levels of government for information regarding resources in your neighborhood.

Another listener connected with Mutual Aid says, "There's a citywide map of resources." This is for people in New York City. "A citywide map of resources sortable by specific need, like food, medical, et cetera. That seems to be at mutualaid.nyc, mutualaid.nyc, a citywide map of resources sortable by specific need like food, medical, et cetera."

Well, I hope this has been of service to some of you as we anticipate a cutoff of SNAP benefits as part of the government shutdown beginning on Saturday. We thank Grace Yarrow, food and agriculture policy reporter for POLITICO. She is also the author of POLITICO Pro's daily Morning Agriculture newsletter. WNYC's Karen Yi, WNYC and Gothamist reporter covering homelessness and poverty. Thank you so much.

Grace Yarrow: Thanks, Brian.

Karen Yi: Thanks, Brian.

 

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