Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We're going to end today's show with your calls on pay transparency in your workplace. Here's our question for you today listeners. Have you ever had a conversation with a colleague about compensation that surprised you or even led you to take action? Have salary discussions ever rocked the boat in your workplace? 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. Have you ever been surprised by a coworker's salary, and what was surprising about it? Also, how did you learn about it? Maybe a conversation with a colleague about compensation that surprised you, and in the context of something that rocked the boat in your workplace?

21243 WNYC 433-9692. Why do we ask? Because of a story in Business Insider that people have been talking about that contained leaked salary information from Microsoft. It was a spreadsheet circulating amongst employees there. It contained more than 850 self-submitted entries detailing compensation packages, salaries, bonuses, stock awards. Even though it's just a small segment of Microsoft's vast workforce participating in this effort, the concept of a document like that is really interesting, right?

Imagine being able to see all of a sudden how your salary compares to others in your office who may be doing similar work, or even if they're doing different work, what your kinds of work presents the company in terms of monetary value as they see it. If we have any listeners who work for Microsoft, please let us know if this has come across your radar and if there's anything you want to say, anonymously or otherwise. Obviously, not just at Microsoft. It's a general question. Picking up on the Business Insider story, have you ever been surprised by a co-worker's salary and what was surprising about it? Also, how did you learn about it?

212433 WNYC 433-9692. Here are some of the Microsoft numbers. It says a top developer at Microsoft could receive between $500,000 and $600,000 a year after bonuses and stock awards. This is astonishing. An article in PC World says as the average salary for developers in the US is normally around $120,000, hardly 500,00 or 600,000. However, they say you have to bear in mind that only a very small portion of the workforce, meaning even the Microsoft workforce, is represented here. It says salaries are highest in the Xbox division. That's interesting, and the Commerce division of Microsoft.

Then the article goes on PC World, one to the top people's earnings. It says if you compare these already excellent salaries of the developers with the top salaries at Microsoft, they no longer seem quite so impressive. It says, according to unconfirmed reports, Phil Spencer, the head of the Xbox division, earns $10 million a year, and that's before stock awards. At the top of the list is Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, who just about makes end meet. PC World sarcastically writes, with a modest annual salary of $2.5 million.

However, after all bonuses and premiums are paid out, the Microsoft top dog earns an impressive $79 million. Listeners, have you ever had a conversation about compensation at your workplace that was surprising to you? That rocked the boat in your workplace to any degree. Microsoft employees happy to have you call anonymously after this or anybody. It doesn't have to be current. It can be from the past. 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. I mean, it is kind of a taboo to talk about how much money you earn, especially with your colleagues, because of the conflict that can arise out of these conversations, but people do.

If you were wondering, most Americans have the right to share this information. The website for the National Labor Relations Board reminds us that under the National Labor Relations Act, employees have the right to communicate with their coworkers about their wages, as well as with labor organizations, worker centers, the media and the public. It says wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection. That's from the website of the actual National Labor Relations Board of the federal government.

At least they haven't taken that page down yet. Have you ever been surprised by a co-worker's salary, and what was surprising about it? 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. How did you learn about it? We'll add, how did it make you feel? Did you do anything about it if you thought it wasn't right, or even that you may have been discriminated against? Obviously, this is always an issue when it comes to pay disparities according to race, according to sex and other categories. Tell us your story, if you work at Microsoft or anywhere else, about being surprised by a coworker's salary.

This is just about Pay within your company. 212-433-9692. What happened after you found out? We'll take calls in a minute.

Brian Lehrer on WNYC and now to your calls and texts on the question, because of this Microsoft spreadsheet revelation, have you ever had a conversation about salaries of your coworkers that surprised you? How did you learn about it? Did you do anything about it? Margaret, in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Margaret.

Margaret: Hi, Brian. I am a nurse. We have a contract that clearly states from our union what our base pay is. The way you make more is you stay there longer. Each year you're there, you make more money. Even though you could look up what anybody that you work with makes, everyone is still very private. Which I just think it's interesting how ingrained it is in America that you just don't talk about how much money you make, even when it's printed there. I've heard that people would rather talk about their sex life than how much money they make in the United States, which, in my experience, is true.

Brian Lehrer: Why do you think in the nursing context, especially as you describe it with the union contract, the step raises that you get over time, and the various levels for different nursing positions seem to be transparent anyway?

Margaret: Why do I think they seem to be transparent?

Brian Lehrer: Well, why do you think people are secretive even in that context?

Margaret: I honestly don't know, except for that it's so ingrained in American society that you don't talk about how much money he makes.

Brian Lehrer: Margaret, thank you for starting us off. Josephine, in Highland Park here on WNYC. Hi, Josephine.

Josephine: Hi. Thank you. Yes, I was consulting at Lucent, working as a technical writer using Rainmaker, and we had a team of people, and we got this new guy on the team who I understand found out about the job and was hired by meeting the boss at a softball game. Anyway, I walked past the fax machine one day and I discovered, much to my surprise, that this guy was making $11 an hour more than I was. He hadn't even been there that long. On top of it, he didn't know how to use the software. He would spend time in these sly conversations with me, attempting to ply me for information on how to do the job. He would never come out directly and ask me a question about how to do something.

He would just try to get me to talk about how the software worked. It was really amazing.

Brian Lehrer: Here is this person who was less skilled and asking you for help at their job, who you found out was making more than you. Did you do anything about it?

Josephine: I didn't do anything about that. No, I didn't.

Brian Lehrer: It made you feel devalued, or-- What adjective would you use?

Josephine: Of course, it was terrible. Obviously, there were other bigger fish to fry at that particular workplace.

Brian Lehrer: Josephine, thank you for your call. Here's one that's kind of the reverse of the premise. Listener writes. I disclosed my salary to my manager, who had no knowledge of or decision-making power regarding my earnings. They were shocked. This is the manager was shocked to learn I was earning more than they were, despite them having several years seniority. The moral of this story, according to this listener, it made them realize, made their manager realize they needed to advocate for themselves. How about Judith in Jersey City? You're on WNYC. Hi, Judith.

Judith: Hi. Nice to speak to you again, Brian. Thank you. I used to be a commercial loan officer, mostly on the west side, which catered to the garment industry. Everybody was a man except for me. It was taboo in those days, even more so than now, not to discuss salary because now you could look it up online. I didn't dare ask anybody, but a couple of times it came up in conversation where they volunteered it. I know that a couple of times does not a statistic make, but every time I calculated, I was always making exactly what the percentage of what women make compared to men for the same job, which at the time was around 73%.

I think we've made great strides because now we make 76% of what men make for the same job.

Brian Lehrer: What do you think it would take to get to 100% of even by that simple-- This is not like what you're describing is not the maybe more subtle thing of women take different jobs than men do because they want to spend more time with their kids or any of those things. You're talking about the difference for the same job.

Judith: Same job, and I was fully into it, full swing, no kids. One thing I think is that that taboo, I think the reasons that you named are valid. Organizing and things like that. I think that it really does behoove companies to continue that taboo because then women and minorities don't find out what people are doing for the same job.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for your call, Judith. Ella in Portland, Maine. You're on WNYC. Hi, Ella.

Ella: Hi, good morning. Here's my story. I started working a civil service position. My salary was based on my experience. What I did was I asked for a direct deposit, but we would still get our check in an envelope or a copy of it every week. I didn't really open it, just checking my bank account one week, for some reason I decided to open it, and it turned out it was my male coworker's check. What I saw was he was making less than I was, but I just sealed it and said, "Oh, they gave us the wrong checks, and we switched."

I don't know if he decided to open the one that he had got, which was my check. In any case, several weeks or a month or two later, I was called into the office by my supervisor, who said, "We're not going to renew your contract," and when I asked why, she said, "You're too expensive."

Brian Lehrer: Oh.

Ella: That's a slip on the usual the woman makes less than the men.

Brian Lehrer: Wow, and the results of that. Gosh, I wonder if there's legal recourse over that. I realize it's too late in your case, but, Ella, thank you for that story. I'm surprised they were so transparent about their reason for getting rid of you. All right, Ann in Manhattan, can you do it in 20 seconds? Because then we're out of time.

Ann: Okay, really fast. I was the general counsel for the North American division of a European technology company. The HR director came to me one day and showed me the salary ranges, and every woman was paid less than every man at every level. I was--

Brian Lehrer: You were general counsel? What'd you do about it? Real quick, or could you?

Ann: I went to senior management and I said, "This is illegal. You got to do something." It was ugly, but they fixed it.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Ending on a positive note. Thanks for your stories of salary transparency. Stay tuned for Alison.

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