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Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, again, everyone. I'm Brigid Bergin, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian today. Now, the climate story of the week, which happens every Tuesday on The Brian Lehrer Show. Today, Theodore Moore, Executive Director of ALIGN, which stands for Alliance for a Greater New York is here to talk about the new city budget and what it means for the city's climate goals for school buildings. Theo, welcome to WNYC.

Theodore Moore: Hello. Thanks for having me.

Brigid Bergin: I spoke yesterday with Katie Honan, who reports on city hall for the news site The City, about the new budget agreed to by Mayor Adams and the city council. It restored a lot of cuts that the mayor had made, but you're specifically looking at how much was devoted to helping city school buildings meet emissions targets. What happened with that?

Theodore Moore: Obviously, it takes an extremely long time to comb through the budget. I feel like it's intentionally confusing and opaque. It looks like as far as the Green Healthy Schools campaign, which we have been advocating for, there was nothing put in there. We see it as a huge failure of this administration to really meet the moment. What we've been asking for is for the electrification, deep upgrades, and renewal of a lot of our schools across the city. We've been asking for the upgrade of 500 of our school buildings by 2030, prioritizing schools in environmental justice communities.

Basically, what we thought is that we can do a down payment on that, of $600 million, which seems like a lot of money, but we know that the budget itself was-- What was it?

Speaker 1: $112 billion.

Speaker 2: $112 billion. While we think in the budget there was obviously the restoration of a lot of cuts, we think there was additional funding for the Department of Buildings to do implementation around Local Law 97. We did not see any funding for Green Healthy Schools, which is quite frankly, a huge failure.

Brigid Bergin: Theo, how concerned are you about meeting the targets announced under the mayor's Leading the Change initiative or saying that the climate crisis demands more stringent targets now?

Theodore Moore: We're extremely concerned that the mayor is going to meet his own targets. In 2022, the Adams administration announced the Leading the Charge initiative, which basically committed $4 billion to upgrade schools. As of earlier this year, $2.3 billion of that 4 billion had yet to even be allocated. We really think, obviously, investing in our school infrastructure will not only save the city money in the long run, but really goes a long way in really upgrading the infrastructure, these very old, polluting buildings.

Brigid Bergin: Theo, just talk again. We know that building emissions are one of the largest contributors to pollution here in the city. Why the focus on school buildings when it comes to climate goals?

Theodore Moore: Yes, that's right. Buildings in New York City account for 2/3 of the greenhouse gas emissions. Why we want to prioritize schools is because they really are the lifeblood of communities. We see them, obviously, our children go there, but in times of crisis, our schools are the centers that we go to. We see when we're looking to immediately house migrants, we're looking at school gymnasiums. We saw it just last week when a lot of our libraries and their air conditioning failed, they immediately opened up schools as cooling centers.

Then we see at times when quite frankly where we will be looking to our schools to be those centers, quite frankly, they fail us because they don't have these upgrades. Obviously, last year with the Canadian wildfires and turning all of the skies across New York orange, we would have assumed that our schools would be a safe place not only for our children and the workers, but everyone. Our schools failed us because of their failing and ancient ventilation systems. Schools themselves had to be shut down. We saw a few months later in the fall when we were receiving heavy rains right here in New York City.

Once again, our schools failed us because they themselves were flooding. The infrastructure needs to be upgraded, so the schools can actually be those centers that people go to in times of crisis, which they're failing to be currently.

Brigid Bergin: Teachers, principals, anyone else who works in schools, we want to know what your insights are into city school buildings and how they're adapting to climate change. Maybe they've made some upgrades to the school you work in, maybe you've been asking for some upgrades that you're still waiting for, we'd like to hear your stories. Call us at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. If you can't get through on the phone, you can always text at that number. We'll talk some more about what's going on. Help us report this story.

Theo, I want to understand what some of the goals are for the schools when you talk about electrification.

As I understand, it's converting to cleaner heating oil or electrification, using LED lighting, constructing new buildings to be all-electric. Where are we in these processes?

Theodore Moore: As far as the mayor's Leading the Charge initiative, they set a goal of initially 100 schools. Obviously, there are way more than 100 schools across New York City, which is why we then set a goal of 500 school buildings out of the 1,100 or so school buildings. This isn't just schools. These are the campuses which may house multiple schools within them, so a little less than half. We are nowhere near reaching either the goals of the campaign or the mayor's own set goals. Then obviously, we're far away from the goals that were set by Local Law 97.

Brigid Bergin: Just so I understand, beyond just the schools as well, the city had said it would miss this month's target overall with the buildings it owns for that Local Law 97 compliance. Is the private sector doing any better here?

Theodore Moore: I don't believe that the private sector is doing a lot better. There's been a lot of pushback on the implementation of Local Law 97, which just went into effect this year specifically around private buildings, so houses that would have to do some of these deep upgrades as well. Just for a little bit of background, most buildings, over 25,000 square feet are required to meet real new energy efficiency and greenhouse gas emissions limits starting this year, and then there are stricter limits going into effect in 2030 really to reduce greenhouse gas emissions on the city's largest and oldest buildings.

There's been real pushback from housing complex, from condos and co-op owners as well, even before they've had to put into effect a lot of the things that are in the law.

Brigid Bergin: Let's go to the phones. Joanne in Queens, you're on WNYC.

Joanne: Hi. Welcome. Thank you very much. I've been working for the New York City Department of Education for 32 years, and I work in operations. One of the things that I do know is that our budgets are always very limited. What I can assure you is there is very little money for any structural upgrades. We don't have enough money to pay for special education providers for our students to get the education that they need.

Unfortunately, our infrastructure is very old. Most of our buildings are well over 50 years old, many of them well over 100 years old. Really, the only way to address this is you got to really get some kind of infrastructure package together, so that the government helps to actually build new buildings because trying to remediate the buildings now is really just a losing proposition.

Brigid Bergin: That's a dire assessment from Joanne in Queens who is in DOE operations. Theo, any reaction to that?

Theodore Moore: Yes. I definitely think that there is federal funding that the city could be going after, especially funding through the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act. The administration should be working both with the Hochul administration and all of our federal leaders to get funding, but I do think that if we actually make the investment, especially into electrifying public school buildings, the city can actually [inaudible 00:10:02] saving millions on energy costs. Actually, the quicker we do this, the quicker we actually start to see some of the savings. Just to be clear, this is a capital ask, which is different from the money for the DOE budget which comes from the operating budget. These are capital ask.

Brigid Bergin: I want to read you a text message with another listener question. This listener writes, "I'm a 19-year veteran of New York City public schools. My school in the Lower East side is over 100 years old, and the AC system we have is embarrassing. We have large window units in most classrooms. Some of them are literally held together with duct tape. The hallways, stairwells, gym, cafeteria auditorium have zero AC or air filtration. Our ceilings are over 14 feet high and the tiny air purifiers they gave us during COVID can't clean the air. Theo, is this the kind of thing that you're seeing across the city?

Theodore Moore: Definitely. One, I didn't know that people who attended public school were calling themselves veterans of New York City Public School. I'm going to start using that. Maybe it allows me to board the planes earlier. I like that. This is definitely what we're seeing in a lot of [inaudible 00:11:20] because there's no central air in a lot of the schools, a lot of them are just using similar window units to what you and I would have in our households. Quite frankly, because the ceilings are so high and there's so few windows, they're really just wasting a lot of energy to cool spaces that are well beyond the capacity of these window units.

Which is why if we actually spent the money to do the HVAC upgrades, we can actually start to have some of the central air and heat in these schools that could actually bring the temperatures down or bring the temperatures up in a more sufficient way and a sustainable way.

Brigid Bergin: In fairness to that listener, I just want to clarify that they wrote, "I'm 19-year veteran New York City public school teacher," so not necessarily using it to board the plane, Theo. I don't want you to try that.

Theodore Moore: I'm still running with it. I'm a public school vet right here in New York City.

Brigid Bergin: I want to talk for a minute about Green Jobs as the component of the mayor's Leading the Charge initiative as well as part of the Green Healthy Schools. How does that fit into both of these initiatives?

Theodore Moore: I think one of the things that makes this campaign amazing is that not only does it meet a lot of sustainability goals, it really can spur economy in New York City because of the amount of jobs. Not just jobs. We're talking about really family-sustaining careers that it can create. Whether you're talking about HVAC upgrades. These are all jobs that are created. There's going to have to be steam fitters, pipe fitters, electrical workers. After all of the work is done, we're going to have painters come in. These are all good paying jobs. In lot of cases, these are union jobs too that people could actually be getting.

When you talk about actually all of the schools across the city, you can imagine how many jobs that we can actually be creating for New Yorkers. Because it's going to take a while, we can actually be creating these jobs for people in the communities because we can start thinking about where we're going to be doing the upgrades, starting the pre-apprenticeship and the apprenticeship programs to really get people involved in those labor unions so that they can start working on these jobs locally. It's really a win-win as far as labor is concerned.

Brigid Bergin: This is our climate segment of the week. We're talking about school buildings and how they're adapting to climate change. My guest is Theo Moore, Executive Director of ALIGN. Let's go to the phones. Ann in Queens. Ann, thanks for calling WNYC.

Ann: Hi. I'm very happy to hear that you're looking into upgrading the old buildings. I worked in one of the old buildings. I'm a teacher for over 10 years now. I've been working in a 10-year-old building. There are lots and lots of new New York City public school buildings that look beautiful. I know they're sourced by the same companies. You see the same tile, you see the same cabinets everywhere, probably the same HVAC systems. My building, again, 10 years old, the HVAC system is so bad that in the winter, teachers are unbearably hot and having to compromise the closed systems by getting Allen keys so they can open the windows which shouldn't be opened.

Then in the summer, the warmer months, they're so unbearably cold that they have face heaters all over the building, including in the principal's office. The kids are freezing. On the hottest of hot days in New York City, there's a building that it's being pumped so cold with air conditioning that almost every room has space heaters trying to make it comfortable to work in.

Brigid Bergin: Thank you so much for calling with that story. I want to go right to Kristen in Westchester, who has a question that is building on that. Kristen, thanks for calling WNYC.

Kristen: Hi. Hello. Thanks for taking my call. I'm a teacher in the South Bronx in a big old building, and I was wondering, what are the rules or laws about the temperature because it seems that my heat in my building is pumped like a furnace from October to the end of May, and they don't really control it, and we're all dying and we can't open up the windows, but a few inches because we're on the fifth floor. I was wondering if there are laws or rules that kind of force that to happen?

Brigid Bergin: Kristen, thanks for that question. It's very similar, Theo, to the experience Ann was describing. Teachers really struggling just to make themselves comfortable. Are there rules around when the city schools have to turn the heat on, turn it off. It doesn't sound like they're particularly responsive to the people within these buildings.

Theodore Moore: I'm unfamiliar with the specific laws as to mandating or mediating the temperature within public schools, but I will say, because a lot of the schools are old, we have these old boilers that are really trying to pump as much heat into the buildings as possible, which means that the same amount of heat that they're giving to a large room, like a lunchroom cafeteria or a gymnasium, is going into a smaller room like a classroom or like a computer lab. A lot of the buildings have distribution issues. I think as we do upgrades, we can actually fix a lot of those distribution issues.

I know in the new schools that are built post the Leading the Charge initiative, there are going to be those upgrades, but they may not have been included in a building that was built just 10 years ago, and it's definitely not included in the older buildings. That's why a lot of these improvements to the HVAC systems, to the heating systems, to the ventilation systems need to be done.

Brigid Bergin: Theo, we know that not all city schools are air conditioned throughout. We heard a caller describe the hallways being on air conditioned, but I'm still curious what your take is about adding air conditioning to more schools, potentially retrofitting in some of those older schools. We know it takes more energy, but could make it certainly healthier, more comfortable for students and teachers. Certainly if they end up being used as cooling centers again throughout the summer. What's your take on that?

Theodore Moore: The thing is, we can't window-unit our way out of this. We have to think about wholesale upgrades too to the actual schools. There is no amount of window units that we can buy to really, quite frankly, properly cool a gymnasium or a cafeteria. We need to be doing wholesale upgrades to these buildings. It's not just for the cooling and the heating. We need to be creating a system so that when it is hot, we don't have to open the windows, because quite frankly when we open the windows, then we are putting ourself at risk to not only the noise, but some of the other airborne illnesses that can be coming in when we open up the windows.

Things that in some of our environmental justice communities can trigger asthma and things like that. That's why we need to really be investing in these improvements.

Brigid Bergin: You are still in your first year leading a line, what have you learned from this year's budgeting process in Albany and in City Hall?

Theodore Moore: One, I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that we need so much transparency around the budget on both the state and the city level. The ability for individuals, and this is not just folks watching the five o'clock or the six o'clock news or listening to this show. I'm talking about people who are heavily invested in this. This is all they do. Advocates working. The ability to figure out exactly what is happening at any point during the budget process is extremely difficult, and would love to see some more transparency and the ability for people from the outside, not elected officials, to be involved and participate in this process so that we can actually get the things that we need out of these important budgets.

Brigid Bergin: Are there any bills that passed the legislature that are now awaiting the Governor's signature that were high on your list?

Theodore Moore: Honestly, it'd be a shorter list to list the ones that have been signed. If we're talking about climate obviously we should start with the Climate Superfund Act. This was a bill that was passed in the wee hours on the last day of session, which basically charges the climate polluters, basically big oil, with the atrocities that they've been spreading across the state. Then uses the money to actually make some of these climate improvements across the state, so we can actually improve our infrastructure and climate infrastructure with the funds that are going to be created.

It's going to bring about $3 billion in. Governor Hochul has yet to sign that piece of legislation. I think on the climate side, that would be the biggest priority that we would have her sign.

Brigid Bergin: I just want to read a text that came in from one of our listeners. "As summer approaches the UFT continues to fight for legislation before the City Council and the State Legislature to establish safe maximum temperatures for all classrooms and offices. In the meantime, members who wish to file a complaint about excessive heat should keep a log of the room temperature and also provide specific information, including, are the rooms in question interior rooms," and it goes on for there. I think that that's some advice for UFT members at least who may have concerns about the internal climate of their classroom and who might want to report a complaint.

We're going to have to leave it there for now. I want to thank all of our callers, listeners who sent in text messages, and especially my guest, Theodore Moore, Executive Director of ALIGN, The Alliance for a Greater New York. Thank you, Theo, so much for joining me.

Theodore Moore: Thank you for having me.

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