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Tiffany Hansen: It's the Brian Lehrer Show. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Tiffany Hansen filling in for Brian today. New York City Mayor Eric Adams holds one off-topic press conference per week in which reporters are free to ask him questions on any subject. This week the mayor addressed the media fallout of the former president's controversial rally that we've been talking about at Madison Square Garden and Mayor Adams own messaging around the term fascist as it relates to the former president.

The mayor also talked about an interview that NYPD Chief of Patrol, John Chell, did on Newsmax. If you're not familiar with that outlet, we're going to talk with Liz Kim about it. That outlet, Newsmax, according to The New York Times, is a conservative alternative to Fox News. We'll dig into that with Liz. We'll also talk about everything else that happened. WNYC and Gothamists lead Mayor Eric Adams reporter is Elizabeth Kim. Liz, thanks so much for coming back.

Liz Kim: Good morning, Tiffany.

Tiffany Hansen: All right, so let's talk about Mayor Adams and Donald Trump and what he had to say and what he didn't have to say about the former president and the rally at Madison Square Garden. First, let's just take a listen to what the mayor had to say during this presser.

Mayor Eric Adams: I just find it just humiliating that what everyday mom and pops are doing and going through across this country that here we are having this conversation about this silly item. So I refuse to participate in that.

Tiffany Hansen: Liz, I think a lot of people would beg to differ that it's not a silly item. To me, it sounds a little bit like a dodge. I'm wondering what it sounded like to you. You were in the room.

Liz Kim: I think the mayor, he's always fashioned himself as someone who is in touch with everyday New Yorkers. In that comment, he talked about how he holds these regular town halls. To an extent, the mayor is making a point here that many people who are not politically engaged, the concerns that they bring to someone like Mayor Adams is, "Why is my street filthy? Why are there so many e-bikes on the sidewalks? Why is the cost of housing so unaffordable?"

As you said, Tiffany, at the same time, just because it's not top of mind for some New Yorkers, it doesn't mean that it's a trivial or a silly item as the mayor said. We have an election with two very different candidates, and one of them, if elected, could reshape key parts of government. Their policies will have an impact on the country and also on the city, but this is an issue that the mayor has repeatedly refused to engage in, much to, I think, the frustration of reporters.

Tiffany Hansen: I think some voters might view this as a silence means something here. The mayor isn't saying much here about the former president directly, but he actually is saying something, according to some people. What is that something?

Liz Kim: That's right. Context is everything here. The mayor, as we've talked about, is facing federal corruption charges. He's also facing ongoing federal investigations into other members of his inner circle, which could lead to more charges for himself. He is in a very difficult legal and political crisis right now. If Donald Trump were to win the presidency, he would have the power to pardon him. Now, so would Harris. What has happened is the mayor and Trump have developed this kind of political kinship. Both of them have built a bond that's based on the politics and rhetoric of grievance and political persecution. As we know, Donald Trump has also been indicted in four separate criminal cases, and he's also accused prosecutors of targeting him.

Mayor Adams himself, immediately after the indictment was announced, also claimed that he was a target, and he claimed that he was a target because of his criticism of President Biden's border policies. The two of them are now aligned, and it's interesting to watch the mayor now contort himself into this strange political corner. He's a Democrat, of course. He still has this stream of messaging events where he talks about working-class New Yorkers and progressive policies, but it's impossible in this moment to not read some of his reluctance or complete reluctance to offend or criticize Trump as a way of sending a message that he does not want to completely alienate himself from Trump, were Trump to become president, because he would hold tremendous power over his future.

Tiffany Hansen: There are personal issues here, and then there are broader political issues. We are six days away from an election. We talk about Mayor Adams potentially. We don't know this. Potentially doing this to serve his self-interest. He has said that these indictments are an attack on him because he criticized the federal government. That's the personal side of this. He has to realize as a Democrat six days before the election that this is going to have some reverberation. I just wonder if we might know not what his intent is there, but what this reverberation might mean for New York voters, if anything.

Liz Kim: I mean, it has real stakes. That's part of why it's a really legitimate question to ask the mayor because we're basically asking him to talk about, how do you view the stakes of this election, and can you talk about both of these candidates? One thing he was asked yesterday was about immigration. Because of the migrant crisis, immigration is very top of mind. Donald Trump has threatened mass deportations of undocumented people in the country. The mayor was asked about that, and would he support that?

He didn't answer that question. He basically said that New York City is a sanctuary city, which it is, and he has supported that, but he's also expressed reservations about all of the policies under the sanctuary city's laws, and particularly it involves people who are accused of a crime. This is certainly something that the mayor will have to contend with, and it doesn't have to just be Trump. This was something that the city contended with-- kind of tangled with the Obama administration, too, around whether or not city officials would cooperate with federal immigration enforcement agents if someone were to be accused of a crime.

Under New York City's law, it's only people convicted of a certain group of felonies like arson, robbery, murder within the last five years that can be turned over to immigration enforcement agents, and only if those agents have a warrant. You could see here how this is an issue. It will come up again likely, certainly under Trump, but possibly also, too, under Harris. Another issue that's at stake here is congestion pricing, and that's something that we came off the summer talking about because Governor Hochul delayed the plan.

Now, there has been talk about reviving congestion pricing, possibly under a lower toll, but Trump has outright said that he is opposed to congestion pricing and he would kill it if he became president. That is dead on arrival if Trump becomes president.

Tiffany Hansen: I want to circle back a little bit to the political ramifications more of what was left unsaid in this press conference than what was said. One thing that really struck me was I think a reporter asked him about endorsing President Trump versus Vice President Harris, and he said something like, "You all know who I've endorsed in the past." He didn't come out and say, "I endorse Vice President Kamala Harris for president." It just struck me as a curious thing to do as a Democrat six days from the election.

Liz Kim: What he was asked was he was asked, "Who are you voting for?" If you think about it, that is quite a remarkable question to ask a Democratic mayor who are you voting for for president? He was being asked that because it has become somewhat a question mark in some people's minds. He didn't answer it directly. What he said was like you said, "You all know who I have endorsed." That's a different kind of answer.

It was really not the clear answer reporters were looking to hear, which is Trump or Harris. Another thing that reporters have noticed is that in recent weeks, he's not even said Vice President Harris's name in these press conferences. He goes out of his way, not to mention really either Trump or Harris by name.

Tiffany Hansen: All right, Liz, let's listen to this clip that we have about this, the term fascist.

Journalist: I know you said New Yorkers don't care about whether or not Trump's a fascist, but Vice President Kamala Harris's campaign has made a big deal on that. Her campaign and her surrogates have very much leaned into the messaging that he's unhinged that he's a fascist. By saying that he's not a fascist, are you not at all concerned that you're undermining her messaging and indirectly helping Trump with the election just days away? Comptroller Lander has also said that your unwillingness to criticize Trump makes it seem like you're seeking a pardon. Are you seeking a pardon from him?

Mayor Eric Adams: Lander who? He's the moral authority of life. Listen, next question.

Tiffany Hansen: All right, Liz, again, dodging a question. By the way, Lander there, Brad Lander, was at the mayoral event over the weekend. Tell us a little bit about what's not being said here.

Liz Kim: That's an excellent example slice of yesterday's press conference, because that was not the only time where the mayor dodged and said next question. He was also asked at one point whether when was the last time you spoke to the former President Trump? Again, he said next question. These two questions are quite legitimate questions, but he did not want to answer them. With respect to Lander. Yes, Lander is running for mayor and he has been among those who have questioned the mayor's intentions, so has public advocate Jumaane Williams. He has called the mayor a Trump apologist and defender. He's also said that he's not sure who Adams is voting for.

Tiffany Hansen: Liz, I want to bring our listeners into the conversation. Carol in Manhattan, good morning, Carol.

Carol: Good morning. Thank you, Liz. Thank you. What I wanted to say is regarding the conversation about the Washington Post and not endorsing, for me, this is a very bad sign. A newspaper in most countries is a great influencer of politics and should-- all media should have a political stand. This is one of the problems that we have in this country. I can tell you I speak from experience because my father was one of the first people in television. Then it just becomes an advertising media. It's up to the media to guide voters. I think that whoever a newspaper that I follow endorses, it's very important. That is disappointing to me to hear and scary.

Tiffany Hansen: Carol, thank you. Endorsements have come up a lot here, Liz, both in our conversation with Philip Bump at the Washington Post. Yesterday, as we heard at Mayor Adams's press conference, endorsements are the hot topic of the hour here. Let's talk to David in Brooklyn. Good morning, David.

David: Hey, good morning, ladies. You're doing a great job.

Tiffany Hansen: Thank you.

David: I think it is unfair to criticize the mayor by saying that he has some kinship, political kinship with President Trump. There's no evidence of that. The Kamala Harris and Joe Biden has let him down on the migrant crisis costing the city $5 billion, which hurt lower-class New Yorkers in housing, in medical, in schooling. It doesn't hurt the rich white guys in New York, I promise. The people on the west side, the Donald Trumps of New York are still sending their kids to the beautiful schools and getting beautiful medical care, and they did not give them a seat at the table. It's very upsetting. Kamala Harris let the city down and Eric Adams is just responding to that by not giving her a warm endorsement.

Tiffany Hansen: Thank you so much for that, David. Liz, this gets at a little bit of something, which is that I wanted to talk to you about, which is the mayor arguably did not say, come out and say, "I'm going to vote for the former president, I support him," et cetera, et cetera. The argument, I think Mayor Adams could make the argument, and if you are, as David listening as an objective New Yorker, you could say, "Well, he hasn't actually said those words outright."

I'm curious, first of all, your thoughts on that. Then I want to get to the former chief of patrol, John Chell's comments as well, because I think it dovetails into this, but first, just on that issue.

Liz Kim: I think David makes a valid point, which is that you could argue that because of the way New York City was impacted by the migrant crisis and the billions that the mayor was forced to allocate for this crisis and which made him unable to pour that money into other priorities that he had on his agenda that he might not be the biggest fan of, certainly Biden, but also Harris. Harris having been a key member of the Biden administration, but I think he's still a Democrat, and this idea that he would somehow withhold support and he hasn't really come out with any statements about why Harris is a better candidate than Trump either.

He hasn't criticized Trump, but he hasn't gone out of his way to also praise Harris. He's still a Democrat. He's the Democrat and he's the mayor of the biggest city in the country, and that comes with huge stature normally in the party. He finds himself in this position now, and we can't write it off. We can't write off that he is under investigation, he has been indicted and he could face prison time for those charges. We can't write that off. That that somehow is not shaping how he's talking about the election and the two candidates in this moment.

Yes, he has a track record of criticizing the border policy, and he's been very upfront about that, about how he feels the federal government hasn't done enough. It's hard, though, to still make the case that somehow he would somehow feel like he might be personally better off, but I don't know. He could make the case, but he has to make it. Make the case. How you feel the city would be better under a Trump administration.

Tiffany Hansen: The other person who has come under some scrutiny for appearing to be pro-Trump, this coming after the rally by the former president at Madison Square Garden on Sunday, is, as I've mentioned, NYPD Chief of Patrol, John Chell. He gave interviews on Sunday. He was in uniform. He was at the rally in uniform on behalf of the NYPD. He was working, in essence, is what the mayor said at the press conference this week.

One of the interviews he gave was with the right-wing news channel Newsmax. Now, the mayor said you shouldn't read anything into that. He gives interviews all the time. Explain to us a little bit about what's happening here, and what John Chell said or didn't say.

Liz Kim: The mayor is correct. Chief Chell has given interviews on Newsmax before, and he does give interviews all the time, and he was working that day, and on that particular day, he did an interview with Newsmax, but he also did interviews with other local television outlets. He did an interview with the Associated Press. The mayor is basically asking why are you making a big deal about this? They're criticisms of it because Newsmax, it's not just the fact that it's a right-wing outlet, it's also an outlet that has been accused of spreading misinformation about the election, in particular, the 2020 election.

Again, it's a little bit surprising because this is a Democratic administration. The mayor, if he wanted to, he could impose limits on what kind of outlets he wants members of his administration-- this is a top-ranking NYPD official to appear on. I guess the question, and it's a fair one, is does he see a problem as that in Associated Press?

Tiffany Hansen: Yes, Liz. Let's play your own words back to you. Let's hear what you asked the mayor at the press conference.

Liz Kim: To follow up on the Newsmax discussion.

Mayor Eric Adams: Yes.

Liz Kim: Do you view Newsmax as the same kind of news outlet as CNN or NBC or ABC? Is there any line that you draw between an outlet like Newsmax and other mainstream outlets, and would you do an interview on Newsmax if they invited you?

Tiffany Hansen: Did the mayor say, "Next question," Liz?

Liz Kim: No, he actually answered that one, and I think we have the tape.

Tiffany Hansen: We don't, so you have to summarize for us.

Liz Kim: He didn't answer the question of would he appear on Newsmax, because he said that's a hypothetical. He did say that-- he said basically what criteria are you using to call something mainstream? He also used this argument, which I thought in many ways was not quite fair. He basically said that when he became mayor, he made an effort, which he did, to give more types of ethnic and community media access. He's kind of making an equivalency between what some would view as this niche outlet, Newsmax, and also these all the smaller ethnic and community media outlets.

He was really pushing back on, "What do you define as mainstream?" At one point he says, "I'm not mainstream," which I thought was incredibly an interesting statement to make in the moment. Yes, the mayor is certainly not mainstream.

Tiffany Hansen: It's definitely how he views himself, isn't it?

Liz Kim: Right. Right. Someone who is a bit of an outsider and who wants to question the status quo. I don't really think that that's what we're getting at here. We're getting at this question. Do you draw a line between certain kinds of outlets that you want city officials to appear on? The criticism wasn't just about the fact that Chell was on with Newsmax, but it was also his comments on during that interview. He was quite effusive about the rally. He said it was great atmosphere, great energy. It was almost really quite coming right to the line of embracing the event. As you addressed in your first segment, we all know how that rally turned out.

Tiffany Hansen: Liz Kim and I have been talking about Mayor Adams's weekly press conference. It's the weekly series we have here on the Brian Lehrer Show talking with Liz about these open questions that the mayor takes on Tuesday mid mornings. Liz is Gothamist and WNYC's senior reporter about who covers the mayor. Liz, as always, thank you.

Liz Kim: Thanks, Tiffany.

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