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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC in our spring membership drive. Now, we return to our weekly Reporters Ask the Mayor segment in which we've been hosting on Wednesdays, our lead Eric Adams reporter, Elizabeth Kim. As many of you know, she covers the mayor's weekly Tuesday news conferences. Hi, Liz. Happy Wednesday.

Elizabeth Kim: Good morning, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start off with the question to the mayor yesterday, or one of them about the pro-Palestine protests in Bay Ridge last Saturday, where the police arrested 41 people, but police behavior has become an issue. One of the videos from there has gone viral. It shows an NYPD officer repeatedly punching a protester in the face. Mayor Adams was asked about the conduct of officers during the press conference yesterday, and here's what he had to say.

Mayor Adams: We are a firm believer in the right to protest, even if I don't like it. I don't like calling for "death to America." I don't like the destruction of it. I don't like Hamas flag, which is a murderous, despicable terrorist group. I don't like seeing that flag flying, but you know what? This is the country, you have a right to do that.

You don't have the right to spit in the face of police officers. You don't have the right to ride on top of a bus. You don't have the right to stop the flow of traffic or emergency calls of service from those who live in that community. You don't have a right to disobey the rules. You were told do it on the side. You were told to do it in a peaceful way.

I saw those videos. Now, if officers use more force than necessary, we are going to do an investigation, but the countless number of police officers who were there acted accordingly.

Brian Lehrer: Just a little bit more from the mayor just a little bit after that to complete the thought.

Mayor Adams: I saw those videos. Those videos are watching people spit in the face of police. I don't think anything is more harmful than someone spitting in your face. That's disgusting.

Brian Lehrer: Liz, I didn't get to see it in the news conference this week, but was the question about police behavior, and the response was about protester behavior?

Elizabeth Kim: Correct, Brian. I thought that last remark of the mayor was very telling, and I think it encapsulates how he sees this moment. He's very protective of the NYPD. As we all know, he was a former police officer himself. Him talking about saying that he can't see anything more harmful than someone spitting at a police officer, it's interesting, because the question put to him was, "Is it appropriate for a police officer to punch a protester?"

He's very clear there that he does not want to see bottles thrown at police officers and spitting at police officers, but when it comes to questions about police misconduct, I think he's not really saying. He says there will be an investigation and he wants there to be context. He says, "We want to look at what happened before and after." He's not willing, in that moment to say, at the same time. He could say at the same time, it would be wrong for a police officer to punch a protester.

I think we should make the point that there is a way in which civilian misconduct toward a police officer can be addressed through the law through the court system. I don't know that the mayor can make the argument that it's acceptable for a police officer to use force to react to something like that, to misconduct by a protester.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, that's the thing. We hosted a whole segment on spitting at people, believe it or not, which was prompted by an incident in a major league baseball game of all things, but the reaction that the public had to that spitting incident. Spitting may be disgusting, as the mayor put it. It's also demeaning. People really resent being spat upon, even though it's not as injurious as, say, having a bottle thrown at you or something like that.

Yet, the issue here is, besides the issues for the protesters, which are real, is the way the police are supposed to behave in a professional manner in response to that kind of taunting and that kind of demeaning violence like being spat on. That's just to elaborate on what you were saying.

One more thing on the protests before we go on to some other issues for the mayor. He pointed to outside agitators inciting violence, and radicalizing our city's young people, is I think the way he put it. Here's Adams aware of the skeptical response to that claim that he made a few weeks ago with respect to campuses, and doubling down this time with respect to the protest in Bay Ridge.

Mayor Adams: We had close to 40 arrests. As I've said, over and over again, many of them did not live in Bay Ridge, many didn't even live in the city. Many of them repeated arrested for these events. I've said this over and over again. I remember when I first said it, people said, "What is this outside agitate? You have no proof." We gave the proof. "Oh, well, you should not use the term outside agitators." Come on, let's stop playing this game. There are people in this city that don't like our city, don't like our country, and they're radicalizing our children, and I'm not moving away from that.

Brian Lehrer: Liz, what strikes me about that, and you tell us what strikes you, is that in the case of the campuses, members of the encampments, the protesters with the tents on the college campuses, also said outside agitators were involved, because they said the outside agitators, not the students were responsible for some of the worst behavior, including the anti-semitic taunts, which were real and disgusting. They and the mayor agreed on that.

In this case, it's just an open public protest. Did the mayor think the same label of outsiders even applies? Who counts as an outsider when it's just a public protest that's not something on a campus for a closed community?

Elizabeth Kim: That's correct. I think it's important to note the context here. The protest or rally in Bay Ridge is something that happens annually. It's to remember something that Palestinians called the Nakba, or it's the 1948 Arab-Israeli war that resulted in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians having to leave their homes. This is an event that happens annually. It often involves families that bring children.

I think that it's almost natural to think that an annual event such as this would bring in people from outside of Bay Ridge. This community in particular has a large number of Arab Americans, but you can completely see why people from surrounding areas might also want to come to this community because it is a hub for cultural events and specifically for this annual rally or protest.

You're right. The mayor seems to be saying at the same time, he's labeling, he's condemning some of the- maybe the ugliness, some of the ugliness that he's seeing at some of these protests. At the same time, protesters themselves have acknowledged that the uglier elements have been coming from outside the community and they are agitators.

I think that at the same time this focus on whether outsiders or insiders, does the fact that they're outsiders that are coming in, does it somehow delegitimize what the protest is about and should we--

Brian Lehrer: Or make it more okay, if the police beat them up?

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, exactly. That has been the point of critics from the beginning as to this, "outside agitator" theory, that historically it has been used by authorities to justify a crackdown because if these people are seen as not one of us, you would think it might make New Yorkers seem to care less because these are people who are not of our community. They're coming in. They're troublemakers.

I would also say that there are people who do not like tactics of civil disobedience, like the mayor mentioning someone jumping on top of a bus. At the same time, there's a long history of organizing around using these kinds of tactics to get messages across and to exert pressure on authorities. A lot of that involves-- There's collaboration among activists too. The mayor has sometimes tried to point to- like during the Columbia protests, he pointed out one longtime activist who is involved in giving such trainings. What does that really say, though? Is she an outside agitator with bad intentions? I don't know. I think this is part and parcel of what protests are about.

Brian Lehrer: An interesting comment from a listener that just came in in a text message. It's a little snarky but it makes a point. It says, "Aren't most of the cops outsiders?" We know it's an issue for the NYPD and cultural sensitivity generally, so many of the cops who might be patrolling Bay Ridge, as in this case, actually live in Suffolk County or somewhere that, so well--

Elizabeth Kim: In this specific case, they brought in a special unit which these are not local precinct officers. That was a point that the local council member made when he was criticizing their behavior. This is a very special unit of police officers that come in during protests, so they're also just unfamiliar to the residents there.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Switching gears, Memorial Day weekend is upon us, and with it comes the opening of pools and beaches. Last year was marked by a lifeguard shortage, as many of our listeners know, that shuttered some city pools and beaches. Are we facing a similar situation this year? What did the mayor have to say about lifeguard hiring?

Elizabeth Kim: We are facing a similar situation. It's important to state that this is a national problem. There is a shortage of lifeguards that towns and cities are grappling with since the pandemic. Currently, the City is projecting that they'll have about over 1,000 lifeguards. Ideally, they would like to have 1,500.

What does that mean for this Memorial Day weekend? What it means is New Yorkers can expect stretches of beaches to be closed. Now where those stretches are we don't know. I followed up with both the Mayor's Office and the parks department to ask them specifically where and they said that this is done on a day-to-day basis, and they did not give me any locations.

Brian Lehrer: To close, last week the mayor suggested that training migrants as lifeguards, some of the many asylum seekers who've come to the city to mitigate the lifeguard shortage. He wanted federal government permission for that which is too slow in coming, everybody agree, but he also offended a lot of people by saying the migrants are "excellent swimmers."

How have migrant advocates responded to that statement? Was the mayor given a chance yesterday to walk that back this week? Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I would imagine that he didn't mean to stereotype the group as if to imply they're all training to be illegal river crossers.

Elizabeth Kim: This is an example that the mayor has used quite frequently when he tries to make the case that the federal government needs to expedite work permits. He has used the lifeguard shortage as an example of where the City could use more help.

The way he has gotten into trouble is that he has pointed out that migrants are "excellent swimmers." That drew condemnation from immigration activists who believe that the mayor is stereotyping migrants who come from Central America, and some have had to make perilous crossings through bodies of water. They're saying that the mayor is somehow using that to paint them all as "excellent swimmers."

I think that the problem with the mayor's statement is, logically, I don't know that that is the best example. I think he's trying to find an example of here we have a need and here we have a able-bodied workforce who could fill that need for the City. That's basically his argument. What's faulty about his reasoning--

Brian Lehrer: That would've been a better way to put it. Go ahead, Liz, finish up.

Elizabeth Kim: The faulty reasoning there is the lifeguard shortage is very complicated and it's about passing a test. Have we even addressed whether or not the migrants meet the language requirements to be a lifeguard? I think that there was a better way for him to get that message across and somehow, he made a gaff and it went viral.

Brian Lehrer: WNYC and Gothamist City Hall Reporter Elizabeth Kim, she covers the mayor's weekly news conferences on Tuesdays, and generally joins us here with clips and analysis on Wednesdays. Thanks for today, Liz. I expect to talk to you next week.

Elizabeth Kim: Thank you, Brian. See you next week.

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