Title: Reporters Ask the Mayor: New FDNY Commissioner, Migrant Encampments, and More [music]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, it's time to catch up with WNYC and Gothamist lead Mayor Adams reporter Elizabeth Kim. Every Tuesday, as many of you know, the mayor holds what they call an off-topic press conference, allowing reporters to ask him directly about the issues of the week of their choosing. For the last eight months or so, it's been eight months already, Liz has joined us on most Wednesday mornings after the Tuesday news conferences with excerpts and analysis and to take your calls. Hey, Liz, welcome back to the show. Can you believe it's been eight months we've been doing this?

Elizabeth Kim: I can't, Brian. Those eight months have really flown by.

Brian Lehrer: It seems like eight minutes. The mayor touched on a range of issues at yesterday's news conference. I want to start off by asking about a story you've been covering for a while about the internal culture of New York City's Fire Department. As some of our listeners know, the former FDNY Commissioner, Laura Kavanaugh resigned last month after less than two years on the job. She was the first ever woman to hold the position. While she didn't explicitly name sexism as a reason for her departure, you've reported that the FDNY has been facing allegations of discriminatory practices for decades, so people are putting two and two together.

Before we jump into the press conference and play a clip, can you tell everybody a little bit more about Laura Kavanaugh, what she was like as fire chief, and what are people saying about her resignation that let this issue live on weeks later now in a Tuesday news conference?

Elizabeth Kim: Sure. She came on with really the full support of the mayor. She was seen as a candidate who was groomed for this job. She had worked at the FDNY since 2014 under Mayor de Blasio. As FDNY Commissioner, she had to deal with several crises. There were firefighters who were sick with COVID, the Twin Parks fire in the Bronx where 17 people died. That was the deadliest fire in New York City in three decades. There was also the crisis over e-bike battery fires. Her tenure was also marked by internal strife, and that was because early on she tried to demote three fire chiefs.

There was a revolt over this and a lawsuit over age discrimination and accusations that she was making the department less safe. Many observers could not help but wonder how much of the backlash was because she was trying to shake up the department and the fact that she was the first woman running the FDNY. One of the criticisms that was lobbed at her was that she had never been a firefighter. Well, guess what, Brian? There have been several male commissioners who have never been firefighters.

Brian Lehrer: Well, on Monday, the mayor held a swearing-in ceremony for the new fire chief, who he recently appointed to replace Kavanaugh, Robert Tucker. The first clip that we have here that you brought is 30 seconds of Regina Wilson. You want to set this up?

Elizabeth Kim: Sure. This appointment is very much, I think, a test for Mayor Adams because as a former police officer, he protested racism within the NYPD. As you mentioned, the FDNY has had decades, really, of complaints about racism as well as sexism. In 2021, The Times reported that after George Floyd died, there were white firefighters who were sharing messages mocking the last moments of his life. Other stories, firehouses using toilet paper with the face of former President Barack Obama. Regina Wilson, as the president of the Vulcan Society, has tried to get the message out.

She has had a long-standing relationship with Mayor Adams, and she and her group have pressured the mayor to make some changes. This is what we were coming into. The question was who would he appoint, and how would he tackle this issue?

Brian Lehrer: Regina Wilson from, as you say, the Vulcan Society, which is the organization of Black firefighters within the FDNY. 30 seconds of Regina Wilson here.

Regina Wilson: The mayor is well-aware of all of the things that we've been going through, the sexism, racism, xenophobia that is still happening in the firehouses right now in 2024, as unbelievable as it may seem. We are going to again push this commissioner to do the right thing. Now is the time to get this done. We are going to consider this a fresh start, but we know that there are a lot of things that we've had on our agenda that needs to be done. We've been telling it to everyone that can hear. Now, we're hoping that this commissioner will hear the same things.

Brian Lehrer: There is Regina Wilson. On this new commissioner, here's 10 seconds of the mayor saying what he's inheriting.

Mayor Adams: He was inheriting more than just a department that had to put out flames of burning buildings. We had to put out the flames that are actually burning inside the agency.

Brian Lehrer: "Flames burning inside the agency," that's quite an analogy with which to welcome someone to the job. What do we know about the new chief, Robert Tucker?

Elizabeth Kim: Robert Tucker is a former CEO of a global security company. He's also a former assistant DA, so he has a background in law enforcement, much like the mayor.

Brian Lehrer: When was he a firefighter?

Elizabeth Kim: He was never a firefighter. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: Oh, just checking.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, he grew up in New York City, though, and he told stories during his speech about just being enamored with the FDNY. He said that as a child, he rode his bicycle up and down Lexington Avenue chasing fire trucks. When he was 15 years old, he was an intern at the FDNY's communications office. That's basically the extent of his experience in the FDNY, which the Mayor's Office has tried to play up a little, but I did the math and figured out that he was 15. His mother actually worked in the Koch administration, so there's a connection between civil service and his family.

The question is whether he will be the reformer that Regina Wilson and the other members of the Vulcan Society are looking for. I thought that the mayor's remarks that you just played about the flames burning within the FDNY were very provocative. He doesn't really go into depth after making that comment about what exactly he meant, but I think it's clear. He talked about how it was very important to him for the Vulcan Society to have input into this appointment.

Brian Lehrer: Here's 20 seconds of Robert Tucker, the new FDNY Commissioner.

Robert Tucker: Firehouse culture has come under scrutiny. It is important to remember that a house needs to be just that, a home for everyone who signs up for this line of work. I will work to ensure our houses deliver the cultures and experience everyone deserves.

Brian Lehrer: Sounds good?

Elizabeth Kim: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Did he offer any sort of plan or path forward for how the city is going to try and address those issues?

Elizabeth Kim: No. Neither did the mayor, although Regina Wilson did tell me that she wanted to see changes made between 60 to 90 days. You can expect that they are going to put pressure on the new commissioner. Again, this is a politically influential organization of Black firefighters. I think it's also important in the context of the city's second Black mayor who's entering a reelection year is, are they finally going to tackle these issues within the FDNY?

Brian Lehrer: It's interesting that you describe them as influential and the mayor as at least sounding responsive to them rather than saying they're whiners and complainers, they're an interest group, and they're trying to make everything that's not about race about race. He's not saying that. One might have wondered if he would say something like that.

Elizabeth Kim: Right. I think that was important for the mayor. I think that analogy that he uses is quite a strong one. If you were to maybe be a little critical, the mayor and also the new commissioner never once do they mention the word racism, never once do they directly say sexism either. Later on, at yesterday's press conference, I pressed the mayor to elaborate. "What exactly did you mean when you made that statement and that analogy about the flames?"

Brian Lehrer: Here's a minute of the mayor answering that question.

Mayor Adams: When I talk about using the analogy of flames burning within, there's a long history within FDNY that the diversity has been an issue. It has been an issue. I've known Regina for about 35, 40 years. I've been a strong ally with the Vulcan Society, a strong ally with similar fraternal organizations within these entities and agencies. Commissioner Kavanaugh really valiantly moved in and said that we need to diversify the rank and file, and I wanted to make sure our new commissioner understood. We have to have some honest conversations about what are some of the complaints that people are giving.

These are men and women who are putting their lives on the line. We need to hear them, and we need to effectively come with ways of moving us into a 21st century fire department. I believe I found the right person to do so.

Brian Lehrer: Mayor Adams, at yesterday's weekly Tuesday news conference, answering a question by our Liz Kim. Liz is joining us as she does usually on Wednesdays after those Tuesday Eric Adams news conferences. Listeners, we can take some phone calls for her on that or other things that the mayor talked about yesterday that we're about to get to. Any firefighters listening want to weigh in or retired firefighters, for that matter, or former firefighters, 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692 for you or anyone else.

Let's pivot and talk about one of the other big topics that reporters were asking about yesterday, which is how the city is managing the influx of migrants that have come into New York over the past couple of years. Obviously, this comes up over and over again. I guess a new issue here is homeless encampments.

Elizabeth Kim: That's correct, Brian. That has been a concern about the migrant crisis. It's the question of will this crisis spill on to city streets? Now, you and I have talked about how the city has what's called a right to shelter mandate, and that means that the city is legally obligated to provide shelter not just for migrants, but for anyone who seeks a bed. Beginning in the spring, the city had reached an amendment to this mandate with advocates that now institutes limits on how long migrants can stay in shelters. It's 30 days for single migrants, and it's 60 days for families. Now, the families can reapply, so they are relatively unaffected.

Single migrants can also reapply if they're applying for asylum or what's called Temporary Protected Status. What this does mean, though, is that there are some migrants that have found themselves with no place to go. As a result, in the last few months, the city has started to see some tent encampments, particularly on Randalls Island that houses one of the biggest migrant shelters in the city. The assumption is that many people who get kicked out, they have no place to go. It's the summer, so they form a tent encampment on Randalls Island. The mayor, as you might expect, is getting criticism from both sides on this issue.

Advocates say that the encampments are an outgrowth of a decision to limit shelter for migrants, and there are residents who view this as a quality of life issue. Yesterday, he was getting some heat from Marcia Kramer, the CBS reporter.

Brian Lehrer: Here's Marcia Kramer's question and the mayor's answer.

Marcia Kramer: Why are these encampments allowed on Randalls Island? I spoke to some people there yesterday. Basically, what they said is there's extra police there since there was the stabbing over the weekend. They're saying, "The police are telling them that if they're living with somebody in a tent or they have kids, they can keep the tents up. If it's a single person, they have to take it down." I don't understand why this is okay.

Mayor Adams: Well, one thing you and I both have in common, I don't understand why our city is going through this. What this team is doing is managing a crisis that's not sustainable, and that's what we're doing. It's not always pretty, it's not always perfect, but we have managed a crisis that is beyond anyone's expectation that we will be able to manage this crisis.

Brian Lehrer: I see that another reporter pointed out that the Randalls Island encampment has several city-owned porta-potties that have been parked nearby, implying that Adams is endorsing or supporting these encampments by providing them with some basic resources. He reiterated several times, including here, to Marcia Kramer, that the encampments are illegal. Listen.

Mayor Adams: We got to communicate with the people, Marcia. We don't want to be heavy-handed. We don't want to be insensitive. It's about finding out what the resources are needed and navigating people there as we deal with this humanitarian crisis that we are facing right now.

Brian Lehrer: Liz, is the distinction that Marcia brought up in the original question confirmed as real? I don't think the mayor quite addressed it in his response, but that if they're living with somebody as a couple in a tent or they have kids, they can keep the tents up. If it's a single person, no.

Elizabeth Kim: That wasn't clear. She put that question to the mayor and his aides several times, and they wouldn't address it head-on. Basically, what they said to Marcia is we are addressing this, we are addressing this, but they wouldn't get into any specifics. I thought the mayor's follow-up response, though, was worth pointing out because he's also saying-- the mayor, we know him as this law and order mayor. Quality of life is very important to him, but he's also telling Marcia, "Listen, we have to address the needs of these migrants. We have to figure out how do we help them, how do we assist them. We can't be heavy-handed about this."

Brian Lehrer: I want to touch on crime and then before we wrap up, touch on Adams's upcoming trip to the Democratic convention in Chicago next week. We'll play a clip from him about that. On crime, he had posters behind him yesterday advertising that subway crime has been down every month for the past six months, and citywide crime has been going down for several months. What some reporters brought up is that there's been a spike in crime in Central Park. Robberies in the park precinct are up by more than 200% from 2023. Specifically, that's 30 of them so far this year compared to 10 last year by this date. What's going on in Central Park?

Elizabeth Kim: That's the question. It's not clear. My colleague Brittany Kriegstein has a story on Gothamist today that says that felony assaults are also up, and experts are trying to figure out why. I think it was seen as a trend in the wake of the pandemic. There are questions as to whether this has to do with some kind of disruption maybe in family ties, or does it have something to do with the opioid crisis and drug use or mental health. Yes, crime happens to be up in Central Park and that, as we know, it's not just a place for tourists. As a reporter pointed out to the mayor, this is also a huge symbol of the city.

If a person walks into the park and doesn't feel safe, what does that say about the overall public safety of the city?

Brian Lehrer: When we say robberies and felony assaults are up, does robberies mean basically muggings? A stranger comes up to you at knifepoint or gunpoint, or just seems to intimidate you into giving them your money. Felony assaults are something else that are fights between people, or the felony assault is part of the robberies. Is that clear?

Elizabeth Kim: Felony assault is defined as not just someone punching you, but someone physically assaulting you in a way that makes you afraid for your life, that your life is somehow endangered. It's a step further than just a punch.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, we have one text pertaining to the FDNY. Listener writes in a text message, "As the daughter of a retired New York City firefighter who turned 97 last week and the sister of a recently retired New York City firefighter who was on the fireboat, I'm disturbed by our local Fort Greene, Brooklyn Engine Company 210 flying a gigantic American flag on the back of their truck that is black, white, and blue. This is political and totally inappropriate." I don't know about a black, white, and blue version of the American flag, do you?

Elizabeth Kim: No. Actually, this issue about the FDNY and expressions of their politics came up earlier this year when the state attorney general, Letitia James, was invited to give a speech at a promotion ceremony. Some of the members of the FDNY who were there ended up booing her, and the thinking was that it was related to the fact that she was prosecuting Donald Trump. There are people in the FDNY who are more conservative and do support the former president. That has come up again and again, and that's something that the Vulcan Society members have spoken out about.

That's something that women have spoken out about, is this right-leaning culture of the FDNY and how does someone impose boundaries on it. At the time, when the incident with Letitia James came up, what I heard, some people say, "Well, the commissioner shouldn't have invited her because she should have seen it coming. Can there not be the expectation that the firefighters are expected to be civil toward a statewide-elected official who's speaking to them?" It doesn't seem to make sense, but it shows you, though, the power of the rank and file in the FDNY.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. A couple of people are writing to let me know that that version of the American flag is what one is calling the thin blue line flag representing pro-law enforcement. Another calls it the Blue Lives Matter version of the American flag. All right, last thing. Mayor Adams is heading to Chicago for the Democratic National Convention next week, and he said this about his support for Kamala Harris.

Mayor Adams: The VP has a similar law enforcement background that I do. She understands how public safety is a prerequisite to prosperity, and we need to lean into that message. We've done some good things as a party, and we need to lean into that message. I'm looking forward to being there. I was there when Obama was the nominee. It's exciting that I didn't think in my lifetime I would be able to see not only two people of color, but also a woman to be first president. I'm excited about that.

Brian Lehrer: Mayor Adams from his news conference yesterday. Liz, we've talked a lot about Adams and Biden as president, first being politically very aligned and then having a falling out over what the mayor wanted with respect to the migrants from the president, primarily more resources to help with the settlement on what is a federal issue, immigration, also letting them have work authority more quickly. How's his relationship with Kamala Harris?

Elizabeth Kim: Well, the vice president as the presidential nominee is going to have the same political vulnerability as President Biden did on the issue of migrants. The mayor heads into the DNC in a bit of an awkward spot. On the one hand, he's the Democratic mayor of the biggest city in the US, but he's also been sharply critical of the border crisis in a way that's made all Democrats vulnerable. It's been a talking point for Republicans. As you can hear from his remarks yesterday, I think he's going to want to play up the commonalities he has between himself and other Democrats, and that's affordability and public safety.

Brian Lehrer: Liz Kim, our lead Eric Adams reporter who joins us most Wednesdays after the mayor's weekly Tuesday news conferences. Thanks for today, Liz.

Elizabeth Kim: Thank you, Brian.

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