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Kousha Navidar: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Kousha Navidar. I'm filling in for Brian today. Now, it's time to catch up with WNYC and Gothamist's lead Mayor Adams reporter, Elizabeth Kim. Every Tuesday, the mayor holds an off-topic press conference, it's allowing reporters to ask him directly about the forefront issues of the week. For the last eight months, we've had Liz join us Wednesday mornings to recap what's going on at City Hall. I am lucky that Liz is sitting right across the table from me right now. Liz, welcome back. Thanks for joining us.

Elizabeth Kim: Hi. Good morning.

Kousha Navidar: Eight months, that's almost 35 weeks, you really get to know a person, I think. Why don't we start by reviewing your experience over this time? You've been going to these pressers for a while. What's your experience been like? Has anything changed about these conferences over time?

Elizabeth Kim: I would say that I am surprised that it's lasted as long as it has. When the mayor announced that he was going to do this once a week format, I think the prevailing wisdom among political experts was that he's going to try it out, and he's going to see that it doesn't really work, and then he's gradually going to move away from this practice and go back to how it's usually done. Just to remind listeners, how it's usually done is, the mayor has events. The press corps will usually follow him out to these events and he'll take questions afterwards.

Typically, the mayor will say, "I'm going to take on topic questions first," meaning that these are only questions that are related to the announcement that he's making at the event. Then afterwards, he takes a couple of "off topic" questions, which means no holds barred. You can ask the mayor about anything you want. That's been the traditional way that we've covered a mayor. Mayor Adams, more than 8 months ago, I say maybe 9 or 10 months ago, decided that he didn't want to do it that way anymore. That instead, he was going to take the this once a week format where this is the only opportunity that we're given to ask him about anything.

The reason why I think political experts didn't think it would last is that, I think that you can argue whether or not you agree or disagree with Mayor Adams's policies. One of his greatest strengths is his, I think, personality. I think that in many ways, he's restricted access. By restricting access, I think, in many ways, it's hurt him because as the mayor, he has this tremendous power to shape the news cycle. In this day and age, I think that for elected officials, it's all about controlling the news cycle. I think the public got a real look into that with the recent crisis over President Biden where we learned how managed his appearances are.

I think there's risk and reward to that. When I was talking about the mayor's personality being his asset, I've always thought from the very beginning, from the first week that when he came out, he rolled himself out as mayor, he was the mayor of swagger. I thought, in many ways, that was headlines, and we followed him around. He is very charismatic. I think one of his other strengths is his ability to interact spontaneously with New Yorkers.

I would say, I think that the mayor has, in many ways, I think the strategy has hurt him. I'm very surprised that he has doubled down on it for as long as he has and not-- Maybe he could have gradually, not that he doesn't need to keep doing this format, but I thought he would have gradually decided that, "You know what? I need to take some off-topic questions."

Kousha Navidar: If you say that his personality is really an asset, which I think makes total sense, has that personality at these pressers changed over the past eight months? Are there things that still make him happy when a reporter asks, or things that still make him angry when a reporter asks? How's that personality shifted or has it really doubled down like you're saying?

Elizabeth Kim: What we see is that it's become very adversarial because the press is very unhappy with him restricting questions in this way. Like I said, it's restricting access. The press is unhappy. Then you have a mayor who, he's being asked tough questions, he's increasingly defensive. Like I said, it's very strange to me that the mayor wants to continue doing this.

Kousha Navidar: At yesterday's press conference, you asked Mayor Adams a question that wasn't so much about his policies, but more about how he's communicating with New Yorkers, which it sounds like is a very salient issue here, both with how he's talking to the press, and then more generally his communication with New Yorkers. Let's listen to that clip.

Elizabeth Kim: I know you've talked about how you're frustrated that your message isn't landing. I wanted to ask if you would consider, perhaps maybe part of the reason might be your communication strategy. I know you really like these off-topics, I know you really like surrounding yourself with your administration so we can ask questions. The more traditional way where you take off-topic questions at every event, we follow you around, you talk to us every day, why not go back to that and try that [unintelligible 00:06:21]?

Kousha Navidar: Before I roll the tape of his answer, it sounds like that harkens to what you were saying before about your surprise with how he's trying to approach his comm strategy. Do you think that a more traditional comm strategy would be better for him?

Elizabeth Kim: I do, and in part because I think that the press will be very critical of policy announcements. Like I said, if we were to just look at what the mayor brings to the table at events when he's going around the city, I think it's his persona, it's his swagger. I think that it's very reminiscent of Mayor Ed Koch, who was seen as the man of the people, he loved talking to the press. Coming in today to work, I was remembering that first week or early on when he was allowing us a lot of access, and we were following him around because he didn't have this silly rule.

I remember there was one event, which was just when the war in Ukraine had broken out, and he wanted to do an event at Veselka in the East Village. We're asking him questions about that, but later he decides that he wants to take a little walk around the East Village. At one point, he sees a teenager with a skateboard. Then he walks up to the teenager and he says, "Can you teach me?" That was a moment, though. I think that that was a moment to his advantage. A lot of press were around him, we took videos of that. I just don't quite understand why the mayor is giving up what I think is his greatest asset, which is this kind of spontaneity. It's his ability to relate to everyday New Yorkers.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, do you want to weigh in on Mayor Adams' comm strategy or anything else the mayor has done during his tenure? As a citizen, where do you believe Adams has succeeded in his role as mayor of our city and where do you feel he's fallen short? We're also about to get into the news that Brad Lander is running a primary campaign against Mayor Adams. Will you support Lander or any of the other names floating around as part of potential Democratic challengers against Adams in 2025?

We're here for it. Give us a call, send us a text. We're at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Liz, all eyes are on the 2024 national elections right now, but we've also got a primary brewing for 2025 here in New York City. Yesterday, as I just mentioned, Comptroller Brad Lander announced he'd be running to unseat Adams as the Democratic nominee for mayor in 2025. Here is Adams' response to the news on Lander's announcement. Let's listen to it.

Mayor Adams: I knew he was doing an announcement. I thought his announcement was to go to assist the first woman of color to be the president of United States, not take the second man of color from being the mayor of the city of New York. I think we need to be focused on one mission. The mission is electing VP Harris, and that's what I'm focused on. I'm sure he's going to join me in that once he sees the importance of that.

Kousha Navidar: Deflection. Liz, what do you make of Adams bringing up the national election and Vice President Kamala Harris's historic candidacy, and then comparing it to his current position as mayor.

Elizabeth Kim: It was a deflection, but I also saw it as a grievance that the mayor has. It's a grievance, again, about coverage and that his message isn't landing with reporters. It's also a grievance that he's being challenged now, not by one person, but by three people, and that he is only the second Black mayor of New York and he wants a second term. He looks back often at the first Black mayor, David Dinkins, who did not win a second term.

The mayor is worried about that. That's why you hear him take that dig at Brad Lander, which is you should be spending your time helping elect Kamala Harris rather than trying to unseat the second Black mayor. Now, I don't know that that argument flies. Is the fact that he is the second Black mayor, does that mean that we are all obligated to ensure that he has a second term?

Kousha Navidar: How about Brad Lander? How is he distinguishing himself from Mayor Adams? What's his reasoning for launching a primary bid?

Elizabeth Kim: Like the two other challengers, which is ex-city Comptroller Scott Stringer, state Senator Zellnor Myrie, they are all making pretty much the same argument. Now, these are all left-leaning Democrats, but they've decided that the mayor's weakness and what voters want to see at this moment is a mayor that can manage the city through crisis, a mayor that has extensive knowledge of how government is run.

He's basically making an argument that's not that dissimilar to what happened in 2021, which is one of competency that, "I will bring competency to this role." It's become really less about politics, like where you lie on the spectrum, but more about, "I'm the person that can continue to," or "I can do a better job than Mayor Adams at delivering all the services that New Yorkers want. I could manage the budget better. I could manage this migrant crisis better."

Kousha Navidar: He, Brad Lander, is running to the left of Mayor Adams. So far, the only competitor who's formally announced the candidacy, but we've got Scott Stringer, Zellnor Myrie, I've heard Queens Assembly Member Zohran Mamdani are all considering runs as well, and they're all coming in from the left. Liz, do you think this city has an appetite for a progressive mayor? If not, why then are so many Democrats coming for a first-term Democratic mayor?

Elizabeth Kim: I think that's a very complicated question. What I would say is looking back at what happened in 2021, when we were still in the throes of the pandemic and the emphasis was very much on recovery and also, like I said, managerial competency, but it was also about public safety. That was one of the reasons why Adams did end up being the victor in that race. We should remember that the mayor, being a former police officer, he touted his ability to lower crime, but he was also a critic of stop and frisk. He made this promise that he could lower crime, bring law and order back to the city, but he also said that he could deliver justice too.

It was very much a blend of this idea that New Yorkers have this progressive vision where they want the police to protect all New Yorkers, but they don't want the police to target those who are Black and brown. I also think it has to do with this idea that New Yorkers inherently like big ideas. If we think back to Bill de Blasio, his big idea was universal pre-K. Now, that was a very progressive idea too. The other thing that they also like to see done on the managerial level is to see it implemented. I think you can argue that the implementation for universal pre-K under de Blasio did go well. At the same time, though, he was hurt because very early on he was tagged as being a poor manager.

Kousha Navidar: We've got a caller here, which I think can add to this. We've got Katherine in Queens. Hi, Katherine, you're here with WNYC and Gothamist reporter Elizabeth Kim. What's on your mind?

Katherine: Thanks for Elizabeth Kim. I enjoy these sessions every Wednesday and the insights into the mayor. I just wanted to say that the one thing I'm so disappointed in is exactly this issue of the universal pre-K. We have to invest in the future, that's it, and cutting that back is a big disappointment.

Kousha Navidar: Katherine, are you speaking from personal experience there in education? What do you bring to it?

Katherine: Oh, well, I was formerly a teacher, and I'm just interested in children and the future.

Kousha Navidar: Katherine, thank you so much for that call. Liz, I can hear in Katherine's voice maybe some emotion there. This is probably an issue that cuts to a lot of folks in New York City, right?

Elizabeth Kim: Right. There's an expression that people in politics often use, which is good policy makes good politics, and UPK, universal pre-K was the epitome of that. You can hear it from Katherine's voice as someone who worked in education, but I think even just for the everyday New Yorker, this concept that you were going to offer free preschool to all New York City families. That was tremendously popular.

There's very little to criticize there. It was a big idea, it was a big progressive idea. Again, a lot of it also came down to seeing it implemented. I don't know that New Yorkers would embrace this idea so much if we had seen it poorly implemented. Again, it's the marriage of a big progressive idea, but also the ability of the mayor to be a good manager and to bring it to fruition.

Kousha Navidar: Is the issue there that he could have done better as a manager that you're saying? Was there something that could have brought this big idea that New Yorkers love to hear about to fruition? What went wrong?

Elizabeth Kim: With respect to Adams?

Kousha Navidar: Yes.

Elizabeth Kim: What Katherine is referring to is the cuts that he made to universal pre-K, which were broadly unpopular. Again, this idea by itself, which was a trailblazing signature policy idea for the city, the idea that the city would scale back its commitment to UPK was widely unpopular.

Kousha Navidar: Liz, we just got a text actually earlier before asking, "Was Mayor Adams asked about Timothy Pearson? Indeed, Adams' adviser, Tim Pearson picked up another sexual misconduct lawsuit, his fourth so far." Liz, can you remind us who Tim Pearson is? Address this text a little bit, what's his relationship to Mayor Adams?

Elizabeth Kim: Tim Pearson is a senior advisor to the mayor on public safety. He's also a very close friend to the mayor. They have a friendship that stretches back three decades. Tim Pearson was Adams' supervisor when he was on the force. In terms of what he does now for the city, he's been leading security efforts at migrant shelters. He's also headed an accountability unit for city agencies that's run by the NYPD. As you mentioned, he's also been plagued by scandals. He was hit with a fourth lawsuit that involves sexual misconduct allegations.

Kousha Navidar: We've got a clip of Mayor Adams responding to the news. Let's take a listen to it.

Eric Adams: People have a tendency when accusations are made to say, "You know what, the pressure's hot, you need to just get rid of a person." I just don't operate that way. I believe in [unintelligible 00:19:07] due process and let the process take its course.

Kousha Navidar: Liz, a lot of the people sitting next to Mayor Adams are women of color. He takes pride in appointing women to positions of power, yet he has figures like Pearson advising him and his own skeletons in his closet. What do you make of that dichotomy?

Elizabeth Kim: A cynic would say that one of the benefits of having the mayor surround himself with all of these women is that it could possibly insulate him from these allegations about his senior advisor who's also a friend. The mayor himself has been hit with a sexual misconduct lawsuit. That's the cynical view of it. The mayor has a very interesting relationship with women in power. He's very proud of the fact that he has five women deputy mayors, his chief advisor is also a woman, someone who's been with him going back to when he was state senator. His insistence on doubling down on Tim Pearson, it is a little surprising because, again, this is not one lawsuit, this was the fourth lawsuit and in part because this lawsuit was brought by an NYPD chief, who's very well respected, who also has decades of experience on the force.

Another part of this issue is perhaps he doesn't have to terminate Tim Pearson, but there were questions put to him as, will you at least consider putting him on leave, which is something that has been done to other city employees less seemingly for unspecified reasons, but also who aren't tainted in this way by scandal. The mayor has repeatedly refused to. It's interesting, when does it reach a threshold where he says, "There's just too many accusations. There's just too much of a cloud hanging over Tim Pearson." The other issue too is, and no one asked him this, but do women feel comfortable reporting to Tim Pearson in this moment?

Kousha Navidar: There was a question that we had asked you earlier in this segment about Mayor Adams' communications strategy. We played a clip at that time of you asking Mayor Adams why he thought his message wasn't landing, if maybe a more traditional comms strategy was more appropriate. We've had a few folks ask for Mayor Adams' response to that. We've got that clip now. Let's listen to Mayor Adams' response to you on that question.

Mayor Adams: Thank you. You should be part of the journalists for Eric Adams. You should organize a team of journalists who are having a better quality of life in the city because of the great work this administration is doing. Two things, I'm not a traditional mayor, and I think that's the biggest problem that people are attempting to do. They want me to fit in a box. I don't fit the description of a traditional mayor. I don't think there's ever been a mayor that has been bald-headed. I don't think we've ever had a mayor in the history of the city that wore earring. I could go through a whole list.

My entire team, by the time they finish with me, all of them are going to go to therapy for working with me. [laughter] I'm not a traditional mayor because you know what, this is not a traditional city. The people are not authentic when they sometimes get in office. They try to pretend who they are not, and I'm not going to do that. Let's not act like once Fabián and the team decide to do off-topic, that all of a sudden the shift and coverage change. Come on. [laughs] You know what I'm saying? Our good stuff has not been reported from day one. We cycle this out of COVID. We brought down crime, so it is what it is. You have a job to do, I have a job to do.

Kousha Navidar: We hear that response from Mayor Adams. I want to bring in a caller right now. Here's Bob from Queens. Sounds like you may have some opinion on this comm strategy as well, right, Bob?

Bob: Thank you very much. First of all, I love Liz. I wish she would run for mayor. Now, hearing the mayor's response, what I hear is arrogance and egotism. His lack of communication is atrocious. I've heard Brad Landers, which I don't work for him or anything, he's a communicator. He refuses to come on this show. I personally think that he should definitely be defeated and he will be defeated because of lack of communication. I have to get my information from Liz, which is incredible and insane.

Kousha Navidar: Bob, thank you so much for that. Liz, any response to Bob, whether or not you're running for mayor? [laughter] Although, maybe you'll talk about that, but while you listen to Bob respond in that way, what do you mean to it?

Elizabeth Kim: First of all, thank you, Bob. That was very kind. I think what Bob's speaking to is what the mayor's not speaking to in his response. This is about the fact that it's not working and the mayor seems to recognize that. He's frustrated that his message isn't landing, but it's also about transparency, the fact that he's restricting questions in this way. He starts talking about how he's not a traditional mayor, but he also seems to throw up his hands in the end. I think he does make a fair point, which is, he says at one point, "Listen, let's face it. If I changed this format, I don't think I'm going to get any better coverage."

What that says is that we're not going to go softer on the mayor if he gives us more access. This is our job. We are going to ask him hard questions. We are scrutinizing his policies, his decisions, his statements. All the same, I think that the mayor is still squandering an opportunity. For one, the reason that I gave, which is I think he has a very big persona that he's not really capitalizing on. Also, this puts him, like we said earlier, in this very defensive posture so that people like Bob will listen to that and say, "Wow, the mayor sounds really arrogant." This is not helping him.

Kousha Navidar: I just want to fact-check something very quickly. The mayor has, in fact, come on many times, perhaps as often as previous mayors. That's left up for question, but he has at least come on here many times. I'm looking at the clock. Want to get to a couple more topics before we run out of time. Let's talk about Randy Mastro, another controversial figure who may soon be joining the Adams administration. Although this time opposition is coming from City Council, Eric Adams nominated Randy Mastro for the position of corporation counsel. For listeners, maybe for me as well, can you explain what is a corporation counsel? What do they do?

Elizabeth Kim: Corporation counsel is often described as the city's top lawyer. What that means is this is a lawyer that is in charge of the city's law department, which is made up of roughly 850 lawyers that defend the city in civil litigation. The Corporation counsel is also a very important legal advisor to the mayor. This is a very prestigious job. It's also part of the reason that it must go through the Council. The Council has a say. There's a confirmation process that must occur in order for Mastro to officially assume the position.

Kousha Navidar: Why is the counsel so opposed?

Elizabeth Kim: Mastro, there are several reasons. The primary reason is that Mastro is a very known as a hard-nosed litigator who's taken on some controversial right-leaning clients. The two examples that are often cited was he defended former governor Chris Christie in the Bridgegate scandal. He defended Chevron in this class action pollution case. He's defended New Yorkers who were against bike lanes. In many ways, he's very much the foe for a lot of liberal New Yorkers. I think the viewpoint is how could someone like that represent the city's values, the Council's values? That is why there has been a lot of opposition against him.

Kousha Navidar: Before we wrap, I want to mention lifeguards as well because that came up. Mayor Adams announced a new emergency response heatwave protocol for public beaches that'll extend lifeguard hours to 8:00 PM under certain conditions. Liz, you've reported on this protocol. Can you explain the change under what circumstances lifeguard hours can be extended?

Elizabeth Kim: Sure. What happens now is that when it gets very, very hot, and there are standards for this, it has to be when the heat index is predicted to be 95 degrees or higher for two or more days, or 100 degrees or higher for one or more days, that's when the city will activate its heat emergency plan. What the mayor announced yesterday was the city will now extend lifeguard shifts until 8:00 PM. Now, there's a big caveat. That doesn't mean that beaches are open for swimming. No, the beaches are open for swimming only until 6:00 PM. Lifeguards won't be in their chairs, but they will be at their stations. The reason is we've had six drownings. That's the most that we've had since 2019 when there were seven total for the summer, and it's only been two months. The mayor's been facing a lot of pressure to do something about this. This is what he came up with, is basically we're going to have lifeguards there. In case someone decides to go into the water, they can work with FDNY and NYPD to rescue them.

Kousha Navidar: What do you make of it? Do you think it's enough good measure?

Elizabeth Kim: It's not going to be enough for people who have been watching this issue closely. What the city needs to do is A, it needs more lifeguards. There is a lifeguard shortage, and not all of that is on the city. It's a national lifeguard shortage that occurred during the pandemic when it disrupted swimming lessons, lifeguard training. We're still trying to overcome that obstacle. What will it take?

It's an amalgam of different policies, more investments in free swimming lessons. It's trying to create a pipeline for young swimmers to become lifeguards. The response that the mayor got yesterday from elected officials who've been pressuring him on this issue is it's a good step, but we still need to do more.

Kousha Navidar: We'll have to leave it there for today. Liz Kim is a reporter here at WNYC and Gothamist on the City Hall beat. Liz, thanks so much.

Elizabeth Kim: Thank you.

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