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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. There's some breaking Eric Adams' news this morning. We're going to bring it to you, having to do with the indictments. Yesterday, he held his first news conference at City Hall since the indictment, and it was very different from the typical Tuesday general news conference that he does.

As many of you know, our lead Eric Adams Reporter Elizabeth Kim, comes on most Wednesdays, as she is doing right now after the Mayor's Tuesday news conference. Liz, welcome back to W-- Welcome back to WNYC. You work here. Welcome back to the show, and Happy Wednesday.

Elizabeth Kim: Happy Wednesday, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: What's the breaking news?

Elizabeth Kim: The breaking news is that the AP is reporting that, prosecutors say they may bring additional charges against New York City's Mayor, and indict others in the corruption case. I'm emphasizing the word "may", because I think this was something that legal experts had, from the beginning, when the Mayor was initially indicted, said, was a possibility. I guess hearing them say it, according to the AP, is important, and its bad news for the Mayor.

Brian Lehrer: Why would they say that publicly, if they haven't already decided to bring the charges? I mean, the lawsuit that the Mayor filed against the prosecutors is on alleged leaks, telling the press things about the investigation that should, by usual grand jury rules, be private until and unless there's an actual indictment. That's not to say that, that will stand up in court, or that's even an accurate charge, but that's the claim he's making. Now on the very next day, somebody from the prosecutor's office is saying to the AP, "Well, we may bring more charges."

Elizabeth Kim: I'm not sure if this was something that's being said in court, because the Mayor is in a hearing, or he was scheduled-[crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Oh, so maybe it was actually on the record in court.

Elizabeth Kim: -to be at hearing. Yes, as we speak, I don't know how these maneuvers are made in court, or even behind the scenes if that is the case. Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. They did say on the day of the original indictment release that the investigation continues.

Elizabeth Kim: Correct.

Brian Lehrer: Even asked the public for any more information if they have any. Right?

Elizabeth Kim: That's right.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Yesterday, the Mayor held his first news conference, as I said, at City Hall since the indictment. Adams opened the news conference this way, sounding a different tone than he usually does with his usual swagger.

Mayor Eric Adams: First of all, I just want to let all of you know, all this is going in my book. This is going to be one of the chapters that you're all going to reflect on. You often heard me throughout my entire journey talk about the obstacles that I had to overcome throughout my life, and sometimes you look over them, and you'll say, "Listen, it could not have been that hard." Now, you're having a front row seat of my resiliency.

Brian Lehrer: He's talking about himself, Liz, but notably, your Gothamist version, our local news website, Gothamist, your Gothamist version of this, has the headline, "Eric Adams lonely news conference."

Elizabeth Kim: That's right, Brian. You hear some of the bravado that is the Mayor's trademark, but when we were in the rotunda with the Mayor, it was hard not to see the Mayor seem diminished from who he usually is, the way he usually stands before us. This was a very sharp departure from the way he normally conducts, or you can even say stages these press conferences.

Typically, the reporters are corralled to one side of City Hall, while we wait for these pressers to begin. Then, we're escorted by his staff into the blue room. We pass this vestibule that's adorned with portraits of previous mayors, and then we take our seats, and we wait for the Mayor. We know the Mayor is about to enter the room when we start hearing the walk on music, which is Empire State of Mind by Jay Z and Alicia Keys.

Then, we see the procession of all of his deputy mayors. Then, the Mayor comes in, and he takes his seat front and center. Yesterday, the Mayor did away with that format. He held his press conference, as I said, in the rotunda, it's a much tighter space, and the press encircles the Mayor in that space. When he came out, I was actually caught off guard, because I didn't hear the music.

He walked out, and he made, which was kind of a joke, and he did that more than once. I thought, in a way, to break the tension of the moment, but it was hard not to see the symbolism there.

Brian Lehrer: The walkout music, the fact that he uses walkout music, which I don't think any other mayor has done, as you say, it's Jay Z and Alicia Keys' Empire State of Mind. I mean, this is like the Mets closer, Edwin Diaz walking out to trumpets, like he used to do. By the way, let's go, Mets. There's another great New York story, but the Mayor having walkout music, it just shows something about the kind of swagger that he has, and so, it's sad, in a way, to see him not feeling like he could use that.

One other development that you wrote up. He saw another close ally and aide resign amid a separate corruption probe. This is not a well-known person. Tim Pearson, who had a roving role within the administration, and had been the subject of a number of sexual harassment allegations. There seemed to be some reporting that when Governor Hochul last week said, "I'm waiting to see if Adams does the right thing." It wasn't actually waiting to see if Adams resigns, or she'll remove him. It was waiting to see if he fires Tim Pearson. Is that your understanding?

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, if you read in between the lines, and many political observers read that as, she wants him to clean house. Tim Pearson has been controversial and problematic for many, many months. It's not just the sexual harassment lawsuits, and there are four. One is on sexual harassment from a retired NYPD officer, but then three others, these were her colleagues, then sued Pearson for retaliation.

There was, even prior to that, there were witnesses who said that he assaulted a staffer at a migrant shelter. Now, Pearson is someone who is considered one of the Mayor's confidants. Their relationship goes back decades to their days in the NYPD. The Mayor has been very-- He has resisted calls to have Pearson even just take a leave. That was the question that was initially put to the Mayor.

You have this person who is being sued by four people. He's also being the subject of two Department of Investigation probes, but the Mayor consistently refused, so there's been reporting that the Mayor had finally relented, and using an intermediary, he had pressured Pearson to step down. When the Mayor was asked about this yesterday whether he had, in fact, asked Pearson to resign, the Mayor denied that.

He said that this was entirely Pearson's decision. You could understand why the Mayor might not want to say that, but it just-- Regardless, it shows how much pressure the Mayor is under right now.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take phone calls, as we usually can for our lead Eric Adams Reporter, Liz Kim, on the Wednesday after the weekly Tuesday news conference, 212-433-WNYC. Call or text 212-433-9692. Asked why he was taking calls from the Turkish Consulate in the first place, whose offices are in Manhattan when he was Brooklyn Borough President, the Mayor said this.

Mayor Eric Adams: I've said it over and over again. I know how I live my life. I did nothing wrong. Every elected official in this city that calls on behalf of a constituent, should be concerned about what is laid out there. I don't know any elected official in this city that does not make a call on behalf of a constituent to address an issue. I'm hopeful, because I think, and I will continue to say, I did nothing wrong.

Brian Lehrer: There was that question as I framed it in the intro, or as the reporter framed it in the news conference, as to why he considered the Turkish Consulate, the people connected with the Turkish Consulate, his constituents, if the consulate was in Manhattan, and he was the Brooklyn Borough President. Besides the clip we played, he went on to say that he's done things for New Yorkers from all the boroughs, if he had a relationship with them, or just because he loves the city, and constituent service is his role, not limited to people from Brooklyn, but obviously, it's getting at a question that's related to all these gifts that he took from the Turks along the way to that.

Elizabeth Kim: That's right, Brian. He also said that Brooklyn has a sizable Turkish American population, so that's also how he framed it. Yes, he is calling this constituent work. I do think that he's trying to raise the question of, what is the line between doing advocacy on behalf of your constituents, and undue influence? I think that is something that prosecutors will need to get at when it comes to this issue of him communicating with a fire official to fast track the opening of the Turkish Consulate. The Mayor's lawyers say that it was just three very brief messages, but obviously, the prosecutors feel differently.

Brian Lehrer: He's clearly tired of hearing versions of the question, "Will you step down?" Or, "How can you do your job while this is being investigated, and pursued in court?" Here's how he responded to one version of that question yesterday.

Mayor Eric Adams: What message would I be sending Jordan? What message would I be sending to that young person that's going through a struggle? What message am I going to send to that mother that just had a traumatic experience in her life? Every day, New Yorkers are hit with bad news. Every day. The message is that, when you reach an obstacle, just throw up your hands and give up.

I mean, that's not who I am. If that's who I am, then I should have never have put myself in this position to be Mayor, so I can't be any clearer. Obstacles don't stop me. They strengthen me, and that has been my life story.

Brian Lehrer: Just to be clear, when he said at the beginning of that clip, "What message would I be sending Jordan?" Jordan is his son, so I guess it's telling, Liz, that he's made this a question not of whether he is under a cloud of suspicion for corruption, but of whether he can overcome this obstacle.

Elizabeth Kim: Right. That was very much the way he presented it yesterday. I often think of the Mayor as the consummate campaigner, that even as Mayor, he has often seemed to be-- He remains in campaign mode. His campaign was very successful, in part, because it was rooted in this very compelling life story. What he did yesterday was remind New Yorkers of what that life story is.

Growing up in Southeast Queens, the son of a single working class mother, having been arrested as a teenager, being diagnosed with dyslexia, and then later on in life, doctors telling him that he was at the risk of blindness, because of severe diabetes, so he once again ticked off all of these difficult moments in his life. What he's trying to say to New Yorkers, he's making the case that this is just yet another very difficult obstacle.

He comes out, and he says, "You're going to read this as a chapter in my book." I think what he's trying to convince us of, is that it's a chapter, and then there will be a next chapter that he will ride this out.

Brian Lehrer: A couple of reactions in text messages to our little exchange about him not using his walk up music yesterday. One of the things I said was that, "It's kind of sad," and listen writes, "Sad that Adams doesn't have his walkout music. Damn, Brian, he needs to resign." I'll just say it's personally sad. Here's somebody who maybe he was corrupt, maybe he should resign.

Maybe he was doing sleazy things with the Turks. Maybe he was doing other sleazy things with the breaking news this morning that prosecutors said, apparently, in court that they may bring additional charges, but he's also a public servant who cares about New York. I think most people would agree with that, and so, it's personally sad to see this happen to somebody, even if he should resign, which, maybe he should. That's a legitimate question.

Another listener, though, writes, "Is the no more music upon entry-- Maybe there's a bit more to the story. Have Alicia and Jay Z maybe pulled their support?" Do you know anything about that, Liz? Did he use their walk up music, their New York song, with their permission? Maybe they've pulled it. That's certainly not been reported, but was there any relationship there in the first place?

Elizabeth Kim: I don't know that the Mayor asked for their permission to use the song. We've definitely seen instances where politicians use a particular song, and the songwriter asks that it not be used, because they don't-- It's Trump and they don't agree with his politics. In this case, the Mayor actually did use that song later at a different event at Gracie Mansion, so it was very much that he felt in that moment, that it was not appropriate to use that song.

He has even through other difficult moments when he's faced very tough press conferences, where there was new news about the investigations, he has always played that song. Unless, I can think of maybe one moment like the death of a police officer, where he did not play that song. For the most part, the Mayor will play his walk on music.

Brian Lehrer: Abel in Fort Greene, you're on WNYC. Hi, thanks for calling in.

Abel: Good morning, Brian. Good morning, Liz. Thanks for doing this segment every week. I just want to point out that there was a story about the current Brooklyn Borough President, Antonio Reynoso, who reported that almost immediately upon taking office, he was approached with the same type of outreach from the Turkish Consulate, the Turkish government, and he reported to the authorities pretty quickly what was going on, because he believed that something untoward was happening. I just want to know, did anyone ask the Mayor about this particular story, about why his successor reacted so differently than he did when he had the same position?

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Abel. Yes, I think, Liz, he's characterizing that accurately. We had that story on the station with a clip of the current Borough President Reynoso telling that story, if I recall. Did the Mayor get asked about that yesterday, the different attitude? I also did wonder, though, if Reynoso knew about who's politically different than Adams. He's politically to Adams left, and I think generally disapproves of Adams' job, and if he was trying to purposely distinguish himself from Eric Adams, because there was already a cloud of suspicion over Adams and the Turks when they both changed jobs in 2021.

Elizabeth Kim: Right. I think that it's possible that he's shrewdly exploiting the moment to draw a contrast between himself, and the trouble that the Mayor faces. The Mayor did yesterday, when he was talking about this, he did speak to his predecessor, Marty Markowitz, as having also cultivated these kinds of relationships. Of course, I think we should have Mr. Markowitz speak to that himself, respond to that, but that's a claim that the Mayor made, that, "I am not the first person to have these types of meetings with foreign leaders."

Brian Lehrer: Let's talk about who's still supporting Eric Adams, and at one extreme, offering some words of support, at least, is Donald Trump. That came up yesterday. This is in the context of Trump saying, "Yes, see, the Biden Justice Department goes after its political enemies." Adams had made that claim last week. We certainly talked about that on this show, that he was a target of the Biden Justice Department, because Adams, he had complained about not getting enough support on resettling migrants. Adams was asked yesterday about, if he wants, or accepts Donald Trump's support. Here's what he said.

Speaker 3: Former President Donald Trump has come to your defense, saying he predicted your indictment after you spoke out about migrants in New York. Do you welcome his support? I have one other question as well.

Mayor Eric Adams: Listen, I welcome support from every American, no matter where they are, and who they are. I welcome support from every American, that, those who know me and know how I am, and those who are just reading up on this, so every American in this great country, I welcome support from.

Brian Lehrer: That's a strange one, Liz, right? Some common ground between a New York City Mayor not named Giuliani, or fellow billionaire Bloomberg, and Donald Trump. He wouldn't say, as a Democrat who had previously been, before they became at odds a little bit on migration policy, had been an official surrogate for Joe Biden.

He wouldn't say, "I don't want the support of the guy who falsely claims that the Biden Justice Department is going after him for trying to thwart electoral democracy." He didn't say, "I don't want Donald Trump's support." He said, he wants the support of every American, though he sounded very uncomfortable there.

Elizabeth Kim: That's right, Brian. I think you could read that two ways. One, is that the Mayor says that he has been wrongly indicted. In this moment, he doesn't have a lot of supporters. He's saying that, just as he said in the statement that, "I would welcome the support of anyone, of any American." You can also read that more cynically, as the Mayor has always been a little bit cautious about how he talks about Trump.

It's something that the political press corps has noticed in recent months. He does not go out of his way to criticize Donald Trump. Now, that he has been indicted, and now that were coming up to the November election, there's a thought that, if Trump wins the election, would the Justice Department, would he ask the Justice Department to then dismiss these charges?

I think, is the Mayor in this moment shrewdly playing his hand, and sending a signal to Donald Trump? That is the cynical reading of what the Mayor said.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, still more text about Alicia and Jay Z. Listener writes, "Alicia and Jay Z was Derek Jeter's walk up song, and Brian talks about Diaz instead. What a Mets fan move?" Actually, I forgot that that was Derek Jeter's walk up song. Hey, I'm a Yankees fan, too. Saturday is my birthday, and how am I celebrating it? I'm going to the Yankees playoff game, so there you go, one of the rare New York fans. Just don't let there be a Subway Series, because then my head is going to explode. All right, Bob and Rego park, you're on WNYC. Hi, Bob.

Rob: Hey, Brian. Does Liz feel as though the different people will be indicted who are very close to Adams, are being indicted in order to turn one, or two, or three, or all of them into being a witness against Adams at the trial?

Brian Lehrer: That's more of a legal analyst question, really, but, Liz, any whiff of that, as far as you could tell?

Elizabeth Kim: I mean, yes, I don't want to opine on it, but certainly, that's something that a lot of reporters are discussing, and when we reach out and we talk to legal sources. Yes, but it's all speculative at this point. What exactly is the prosecutor's strategy in this moment? I think it was-- I will say, though, that the legal sources that I spoke to, I think it was a bit of a surprise that the first indictment that came out was against the Mayor himself, because typically, the way it was explained to me, the way these cases work is, they start with the lower rung people of, if you were to think of it as like a crime family, for instance, you would go for the lower rung members of that, and then you would work your way up to the boss.

Brian Lehrer: Exactly.

Elizabeth Kim: That's the way that one former prosecutor explained it to me, so this was very much flipping it, and we'll see how this moves forward.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, a few people are chiming in on our text feed about Legal Analyst Elie Mystal, who was on the show the other day, who, on Adams' relationship with Trump was speculating that Adams may feel that his best path here is to cozy up to Trump, so that, if Trump is elected and Adams is convicted, that Trump might pardon Eric Adams, as Trump has pardoned other people previously for political reasons, to make the point that the justice system is biased against this one, or that one, which helps reinforce the idea that the justice system is biased against Trump.

Of course, that's also nothing that we can prove, but, Liz, it's a theory, and it's a theory that was on the show that listeners are reminding me of by the justice correspondent for The Nation magazine, Elie Mystal, that maybe that's why Adams wouldn't down talk Trump when he was given the opportunity yesterday, and instead just said, he accepts his support.

Elizabeth Kim: That's right, Brian. I think it's fair to say that the Mayor is very careful when he talks about Donald Trump. He is not your typical Democrat, in terms of going out of their way to denigrate, or slam Donald Trump. He does not do that.

Brian Lehrer: One more clip, and we will say, it times yesterday's news conference, while also sad, was funny, somewhat at Adams' expense.

Speaker 4: How was the menu and service on the Turkish Airlines, and would you recommend it?

[laughter]

Mayor Eric Adams: How was that? [crosstalk]

Speaker 5: How was the service in the Turkish Airlines?

Mayor Eric Adams: [laughs] I love that question. Great service. Great service.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, if you couldn't make out the question exactly, it was, "How was the menu and service on the Turkish Airlines, and would you recommend it?" After the crosstalk and the laughter, Adams said, "I love that question. Great service, great service." Laugh through the pain, Liz, right?

Elizabeth Kim: Right. I think that, that gives you a sense of who the Mayor is. He is, at times, he was very much-- Very defiant. He can be very reflective too, but he can also be funny. It's interesting that, in a very, very tense moment like this, he was all of these things, and he took that question, and he handled it, I thought, perfectly, like how he came in. He wanted to diffuse the tension with a joke, and that's what he did to end the press conference.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing in our last minute, who are Eric Adams supporters, besides Donald Trump in his way turning out to be, now that its been most of a week since the indictment, and there seemed to be this big rush to get him to resign at first, then Reverend Al Sharpton tried vocally over the weekend to slow things down. Sharpton, close with Adams over the years, though, Sharpton is a criminal justice advocate.

Largely, presided at George Floyd's funeral and everything, and Adams is more aggressive in his use of the police than Sharpton probably approves of. Yet, Sharpton asked Governor Hochul to slow things down. Who else are Adams supporters, now that this is moving into a slower gear?

Elizabeth Kim: Well, I think that the problem for the Mayor is that, yes, he does have people like Al Sharpton, and other high profile Black-electeds, who have stopped short of asking Adams to resign, and have also said that, he deserves the presumption of innocence. He deserves a trial. The problem, though, is--

Brian Lehrer: Which he does.

Elizabeth Kim: Which he does is, and I guess it's the question for him, are these people actually going to, at the same time, stand at an event for the Mayor? The Mayor did have a rally on the steps of City Hall yesterday. This was a few hours after he gave that press conference. I don't know that there were any prominent elected officials there. I saw there was his Department of Transportation Commissioner Ydanis Rodríguez.

I did some reporting where I reached out to several key commissioners, and a lot of them, or basically, all of them in the moment, at least, did not want to say anything about the Mayor, and whether they felt that the Mayor, who is their boss, by the way, could still lead the city, so he's in a very, very difficult spot. He does not have a high profile ally, or supporter out there, which is what he needs. He's been going to church a lot, but we will see how much support he could wrangle from that.

Brian Lehrer: We will leave it there for today with our lead, Eric Adams Reporter Liz Kim, talk to you next Wednesday, I presume.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, Brian.

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