Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now as usual on Wednesdays, our lead Eric Adams reporter, Elizabeth Kim, after the Mayor's Tuesday news conferences. Now Liz joins us to cover what happened at the Mayor's weekly press conference, and this week was quite eventful. We're going to include a clip of Governor Hochul in this too. You'll hear why. Did you hear that Mayor Adams stopped reading the news? He said it at the news conference yesterday. I saw it. For the past month, he revealed he's relied solely on press briefings. Maybe this means you might be more informed on current events than the Mayor of the city of New York. We'll get to that.

Also, Adams' response to the arrest and detention of Columbia University, recent grad school graduate, Mahmoud Khalil, and new developments in the corruption case and alleged quid pro quo, with Trump suspending the case. There seems to be new evidence of a political motive, possibly for at least part of why the case may have been brought, but not in the way Adams has been claiming. We'll explain.

Hey, Liz, happy Wednesday. Never a dull moment these days, right?

Elizabeth Kim: That's right, Brian. Happy Wednesday.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start with the detention of Mahmoud Khalil. The 29-year-old Palestinian was detained by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Saturday, ICE, for his role in organizing campus protests calling on Columbia to divest from Israel because of the war in Gaza. He is a green card holder, legal permanent resident. He was entering his building with his eight-month-pregnant, US citizen wife when ICE agents detained him and put him in an immigrant detention facility, first in New Jersey and then in Louisiana, to the shock of his wife who was going to visit him in Jersey. According to the website Zeteo, Khalil wrote to university administrators just a day before his arrest saying, "I haven't been able to sleep, fearing that ICE or a dangerous individual might come to my home. I urge you to intervene and provide the necessary protections to prevent further harm."

Liz, before I play a clip of the Mayor from yesterday's news conference, can you talk about the arrest of Mahmoud Khalil in the context of the mayoral campaign?

Elizabeth Kim: Sure, Brian, and you gave a really excellent recap of exactly what happened. There are essentially several issues at play. I guess the first two that I want to talk about, I would call them constitutional issues. These are issues that civil rights attorneys, First Amendment attorneys have raised, which is where is the evidence? Why was he arrested? We do have statements from the government. The Department of Homeland Security had accused him of activities that they said were related to Hamas, which is a designated terrorist organization, and [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Let me just jump in here for a second, tell you and tell all the listeners, we're going to do a specific segment next after you on the legal questions, the constitutional questions with a law professor from Cardoza surrounding this detention and attempt to deport. Just so you know.

Elizabeth Kim: Right. The President put out a tweet saying that there was more to come, and he amplified this idea that Khalil was engaged in pro-terrorist, anti-Semitic, anti-American activities. I'll leave that for the next segment. The politics at play involve the Democrats who have been divided, to say the least, on not just the campus protests, but also the Israel-Hamas war. It has been an opportunity that Republicans have seized on to portray Democrats, particularly the left, as somehow this Party that is not just not supportive of Israel, but perhaps anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic.

You see the way in how the Democrats are handling this in a very, very careful manner. It was most obvious in the way some of the mayoral candidates were handling it. You had two candidates, the current City Comptroller Brad Lander, and the former Comptroller Scott Stringer, who were very clear to say that they did not support in any way the rhetoric that was used by Khalil. Though, I think that that is also up for discussion as to what he really said as one of the leaders of the pro-Palestinian protests at Columbia, but you saw that time and time again.

I should say it's not even just Lander and Stringer. You also saw Senator Chuck Schumer. He wrote in a social media post that while he may "abhor many of the opinions and policies that Khalil supports," he also wanted to make it clear, though, that the federal government needs to be very transparent about whether or not he is charged with the crime. Also, again, what exactly is the crime? If it is, as the government says, that he is involved in terrorist activities, again, where is the evidence? Are there recordings? Are there emails? There was none of that, which is why the arrest was very troubling to many people.

Brian Lehrer: Right, and where is the line between opposing what Israel was doing in Gaza and supporting Hamas, which is the allegation. Is there evidence? We'll talk about that in detail in our next segment. You set up what some of the mayoral candidates are saying, what Chuck Schumer is saying. Here's the Mayor's response to Kahlil's arrest after he was asked about it in yesterday's news conference.

Mayor Eric Adams: You know, ICE is a law enforcement entity, and I'm going to collaborate with law enforcement, every federal, state, and city agency in doing so, but specifically with this individual, that's not my job. The federal government determines who will be deported from this country, not the mayor of the city of New York, and not any mayor determines that.

Brian Lehrer: That's a long way of saying, "No comment." I want to play a clip of Governor Hochul on the same topic yesterday.

Governor Kathy Hochul: Did he break the law, not break the law, or is this political punishment? I don't know that answer right now because I just do not have all the facts.

Brian Lehrer: Liz, are the Mayor and the Governor on the same page, or is she being more critical?

Elizabeth Kim: They're slightly on the same page in the fact that they don't really want to opine on whether or not the arrest was justified. Although, I think there's something flawed in what Hochul says is that she's basically saying, we don't know. That therein is the problem to many people, including what Schumer pointed out, is that there is no transparency here.

The Mayor's response is very consistent with his past remarks, particularly anything to do with federal policy. He has repeatedly declined to comment. It's also a way for him to just punt on difficult issues, especially if they're politically thorny. Think about, Brian. When he was asked about his views on congestion pricing, he gave a very similar response, that that's the state's decision, not my job.

Brian Lehrer: Let's go on to the corruption case against the Mayor, and the questions about a possible quid pro quo with the Trump administration for enforcing immigration law or the immigration policies of Trump. Who knows, that might even extend to the Mayor being so equivocal on this in the Mayor's judgment. He kind of owes them that at this point. The Mayor had a lot to say at yesterday's news conference about the recently unveiled text messages belonging to one of the prosecutors or sent by one of the prosecutors in his criminal corruption case.

Before we play the response from the Mayor, do you want to set some of this up for us? What was the question? What were these text messages that seem to indicate that at least some of the prosecutors on the case thought that the US Attorney Damian Williams might have had a political motive in bringing the case?

Elizabeth Kim: This was a story that dropped Friday evening. Basically, it was based on a filing from justice officials who had basically written about these redacted emails and text messages that they say prove that the case was politically motivated. The Mayor was asked about it, and he was very, very eager to talk about this particular aspect of his case.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, so here it is. Then I'm going to go into detail and read some of what was in these text messages and talk about why they don't seem to back up, even though there's a suggestion of political motive, what Adams has been claiming all along about Biden and his administration. Here's the Mayor's response.

Mayor Eric Adams: The judge is going to move based on his timeline. His independent, court-appointed person, there were several things he said in his review, and I agree with him. But what was surprising to me was the emails, texts and communications that came from those who were on this case, it was in contrast to what they said publicly, and how little you guys covered it. Every leak that came out on me, there was full page stories and leaks and what have you, but these guys, in their own words, talked about what I said, this was politically motivated. And in their own words, they alluded to that, but it wasn't covered. It was just little passages, I think. Thank God for The New York Post who was willing to cover it. Why aren't we talking about that?

Brian Lehrer: It was The Post that dropped that story Friday night with these text messages from the Justice Department filing. Let's hear what's in them. One text message revealed in that filing, according to The Post, came from the lead prosecutor in the case, whose name is Hagan Scotten, if I'm saying that right. It says Scotten wrote that it was "plausible" that the former Manhattan US Attorney Damian Williams, who brought the case against the Mayor, had a "political motive." What The Post calls the alleged text message, because I guess they don't have the text message, they have a lawyer's claim about a text message, but it said Williams "obviously has political ambitions, and I think suggesting we doubt that just costs us credibility." That's what one of the lead prosecutors on the case wrote about his boss.

Liz, if that quote is accurate, it seems to me to imply various things, but one is that if there was a political motive, it wasn't what the Mayor keeps saying it was. It would have been for Damian Williams to advance his career by convicting a big fish. Not that the Biden administration was using the justice system to punish Adams for opposing Biden's immigration policies. Do you think I have that right from what you've seen?

Elizabeth Kim: That's exactly right, Brian. That's what I was thinking too when I listened to the Mayor talk about this issue yesterday, and it's what I wanted to ask him about. It's also not what the Justice Department originally said in their memo where they requested that the charges be dropped. They related this, as the Mayor has, back to the Mayor's very vocal criticism of the Biden immigration policy. There is this inconsistency there. Now both could be true at once. The Mayor could have maintained that this was politically motivated from Washington. At the same time, these emails could suggest-- and I emphasize could. Because the Mayor was asked at one point, because a reporter pointed out to him these are redacted.

This is also an argument that the Justice Department is trying to make. The Justice Department has been trying to get a judge to drop these charges. They have every incentive to maybe take what they can find, redact them, and paint a picture that is favorable to their request. The Mayor didn't quite answer this question about-- he was asked, well, would you be willing to have your lawyers call on the prosecutors to fully release all of these emails so we can see, we can get full clarity on exactly what, for example, this lead prosecutor was talking about?

I failed to mention, Brian. Another reason why this story perhaps didn't get as much attention as the Mayor liked was there was a much bigger story and more important story for the Mayor that came out of the court filings on late Friday. That was that this independent attorney that the judge appointed to assess Adams' case and make the argument on the opposing side so that he could have two views of how he should rule in this case of whether or not to allow the charges to be dropped, well, that independent attorney said that not only does he feel that the charges should be dismissed, he also wants the case dismissed with prejudice, meaning that the government can't reinstate the prosecution later. [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: So Trump couldn't be holding a threat over Adams' head if Adams doesn't cooperate with Trump policies.

Elizabeth Kim: Correct. That was really the headline story that came out of Friday evening, was that this is the best of all possible worlds for the Mayor. Not only has this independent lawyer recommended to the judge that the charges be dropped; he's also asking him to not follow what the Justice Department asked for, which was to allow the case to be revisited after the November election, but to just drop them entirely. It won't be revisited. That's it.

Brian Lehrer: I have a big but on this, but I have to read my legal ID first because it's the top of the hour, and we don't want to get in trouble with the FCC for not. This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey Public Radio, and live streaming at wnyc.org, at 11:02 and a half.

Liz, the only choices seem to be drop the case altogether, as this court-appointed attorney is arguing, or just suspend them like the Trump Justice Department is doing. Why wasn't there another independent counsel to argue that they should keep the charges and head to trial next month, as originally planned, and make the Mayor be accountable for what the previous prosecutor found or alleges?

Elizabeth Kim: Because the problem with that, Brian, is there has to be a party or a body that can prosecute that case. The case, after all, is the US government v. Eric Adams. If the US government, in the form of the Justice Department, is saying they don't want to bring this case-- and that's why in many ways, the independent counsel really didn't have much of a choice here because the decision here is he-- and he says this in a very, very long legal filing, which is how can-- I think he pointed to previous cases too, that you just can't force US prosecutors to bring a case that they don't want to.

Brian Lehrer: One more clip, and this is about the Mayor saying he doesn't read the news anymore. Do you want to just get people grounded here by saying who Tracey is that he refers to at the beginning of this clip?

Elizabeth Kim: Sure. Tracey is the Mayor's longtime partner. This was his answer to actually a question about Andrew Cuomo, and the question was whether Andrew Cuomo as a mayoral candidate is getting under his skin.

Mayor Eric Adams: About four weeks ago, I was finishing an article, and Tracey said, "Eric, I want you to try something. Don't read the papers. Don't look what's in the news. Have your team just brief you on things that are important." Four weeks ago, I stopped reading papers. I stopped listening to the news. People would stop me on the street and say, "I'm sorry what happened to you." I said, "What happened to me?" [chuckles] I said, "Is something happening that I don't know about?" I sleep so much better. I just feel so much at ease. I didn't realize that-- It's like almost if you eat junk food every day, you're going to get physical obesity. I was going through mental obesity. I got a stack of papers in my office that Gladys puts in, and three months from now, I'm going to read and hear all that y'all said about me. But right now, he can't get under my skin because I don't even know what he's saying. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: Cuomo can't get under his skin because Adams doesn't even know what he's saying because he's not reading the news. Although, I would think if he's getting his news from staff briefings, they would want him to know that. Is there anything wrong with the Mayor only getting his news from staff briefings? I mean, there are so many news organizations, so many people commenting, posting on social media. Is this such a bad thing?

Elizabeth Kim: I think one question that came out of that was immediately, I think, some reporters questioned the Mayor's veracity in making that confession. Is he really not reading the news? He seemed to know very well that- to complain that there wasn't enough coverage on these redacted texts and emails from Southern District prosecutors.

I think in general, yes, there is a problem with the Mayor not reading the news. It's not just about him reading about his own coverage. I think the public should have a mayor who is steeped in matters of public importance, something like the arrest of Mahmoud Khalil. Does the Mayor know the facts behind this?

It's not just that. Again, just to remind people, this is in fact a New Yorker. He was arrested in Morningside Heights at his Columbia University apartment. It doesn't just pertain to him and the mayoral race. Although, those are, of course, matters of importance, I would think, to the Mayor politically that he should want to be very in tune with.

Brian Lehrer: I'm sure he will be briefed on Andrew Cuomo before he has to have a debate or anything like that. Just for context on this before you go, how much do you know if it's normal practice among politicians to limit their actual news organization consumption and get briefed, or if this really makes the Mayor an outlier?

Elizabeth Kim: I do have one actually very, very interesting example because I once did a freedom of information request to former mayor de Blasio about his emails involving the city's response to the remnants of Hurricane Ida. One of the things I got back was he had emailed a story by WNYC's Gwynne Hogan. She was a reporter for WNYC and Gothamist at the time. He distributed that email to his top aides, and her story was about the reaction in the aftermath of some residents in Queens who weren't receiving any help. Their belongings were deluged in water. They had no place to stay. Then he sent this email to his top aides, and he says, let's make sure we respond.

That is at least one example of how one mayor was very in tune with the news and the reporting and how that drove actual policy. Because after that email was sent out, we saw sanitation officials driving through that neighborhood and helping these individuals.

Brian Lehrer: Reading the news, in this case one of our own stories, helped lead to better service for constituents in a neighborhood affected by a hurricane. We leave it there for this week with Elizabeth Kim. We call her our lead Eric Adams reporter. I'm going to have to stop using that euphemism, probably, as the mayoral race goes on, as you're covering all these candidates. She's our lead City Hall reporter anyway, and she joins us on most Wednesdays after the Mayor's weekly Tuesday news conferences. In the meantime, you can read her work on Gothamist, as well as hear her on the radio.

Liz, probably talk to you next Wednesday.

Elizabeth Kim: Talk to you next Wednesday, Brian.

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