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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now it's time for our usual Wednesday visit with our lead Eric Adams reporter, Elizabeth Kim. Liz joins us to cover what happened at the mayor's weekly news conference, usually held on Tuesdays. This week, Adams held his presser on Monday as he is in Washington D.C. this morning to testify at a congressional hearing on sanctuary cities with other Democratic mayors in major cities across the country. We will preview his appearance there, and we will hear from WNYC and Gothamist Brigid Bergin tomorrow morning to cover what actually goes down.

There was also major news, as you no doubt know, in the 2025 mayoral race this past weekend. Former Governor Andrew Cuomo, who resigned from that position in 2021 under the pressure of mounting scandals, has ended his "will he, won't he" saga and finally entered the contest to be the Democratic nominee in this year's mayoral election. An Empire Report Poll, poll from that group, published last week found Cuomo actually leading the pack of candidates. At this point, of course, it's all name recognition. We will find out over time whether that persists, and we'll look at the first few days of Cuomo's candidacy as well as our usual chat about Adams with Liz Kim. Hey, Liz, Happy Wednesday.

Elizabeth Kim: Happy Wednesday, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start with Mayor Adams' trip to D.C. today. As we speak, the hearing on Capitol Hill is scheduled to take place. What's he doing down there? It doesn't sound like it's a friendly call from his new friends at the Trump administration.

Elizabeth Kim: Not exactly, Brian. The House Republican Oversight Committee requested that the mayors of New York, Denver, Boston, and Chicago come and testify about their respective sanctuary policies. As you know, there are Republicans that are deeply critical of these kinds of policies. Just to give listeners the broad strokes of it, sanctuary policy generally means that local officials don't turn over undocumented immigrants to federal immigration agents. This is largely so that people don't live in the shadows. It's the concept that the safety of the immigrant community is tied to the broader safety of the city. Think about wanting people to be able to go to the police without fear of being turned over to federal authorities.

If they're ill with an infectious disease, you want them to be able to go to the hospital and get that taken care of before they infect other people. That has been the longstanding impetus behind sanctuary city policies, and it's been built on over the decades by both Republicans and Democrats in New York City. You can expect the mayor to get a grilling on this issue today. I asked him, actually at his press conference, what he planned to say about it. It was interesting.

The mayor who has-- We've talked about this. He has cultivated deep ties with the immigrant community. He says he plans to tell the committee about the work that undocumented or just immigrants do in this city. He wanted to highlight the work they did during COVID, and he brought up the work they did in hospitals delivering food. He said he also planned to point out that they infuse billions of dollars into the city's economy through taxes. He also said that he will make it clear that he believes that if you are an undocumented person who has been convicted of a crime in this country, that you should not be able to stay.

Brian Lehrer: Now, we're going to talk about the Cuomo candidacy and a correction on the group that released that poll that showed him leading the pack as of now with 38%, it's the Honan Strategy Group. I gave another name a minute ago. That was an error. We're going to talk about what you think that 38% means, Liz. We don't want to overemphasize any poll relatively early in a race. It may be a lot of name recognition. It may be that a lot of people think really well of Cuomo and whatever they do know about this pack, they think, well, maybe he's like Eric Adams, only better.

Obviously, there are all the other candidates from the more progressive wing of the Democratic Party who Cuomo is not sounding very much like. Let's play one minute from his first campaign rally speech over the weekend.

Andrew Cuomo: We are here because we love New York and we know New York City is in trouble. You can feel it. You don't need to read statistics. You can feel it. You feel it when you walk down the street and you see the mentally ill, homeless people. You feel it when you walk down into the subway and you feel the anxiety rise up in your chest. You hear it when you hear the scream of the police sirens. You feel it in the chaos of the E-bikes and the scooters coming from every direction. You feel it when you see moving trucks packing up your neighbors because people are moving from New York because it's just too expensive, too dangerous, and too difficult. We are here today because we know New York is in crisis, but we know something else. We know that we can turn this city around, and we know we will.

Brian Lehrer: Liz, in the context of the whole field in the Democratic primary. Where would you describe which Cuomo is trying to fit in?

Elizabeth Kim: I chose that clip not just because this was the opening of his campaign rally speech, and it was the first speech like that that he's made in a while, obviously. I also picked it because doesn't he sound a lot like Eric Adams? That basically means that where Cuomo is in the field is basically he is a moderate, a pro-public safety moderate like Eric Adams. He sounds a lot like Eric Adams because he's talking about this city in crisis. I think that was a theme that Adams used in 2021.

Now, crime was higher in 2021, especially violent crime, shootings, murders. There was a lot of uncertainty about whether the economy was going to rebound in 2021. The point I would make is that we are in a different place now. Notice the other thing that Cuomo does that is similar to Adams, which is he's talking about perception. This is something that the mayor has said often, too, during his term. He has said it's not just important to be safe, we have to feel safe.

I do wonder, though, whether we've gotten into a trap with this prioritization of feelings over data, because there can be a gulf between perception and reality. Adams is suffering from that. He's trying to tell New Yorkers again and again crime is coming down. Because he himself said that feelings are still important, it's made it very, very difficult for him to campaign out of that. I wonder whether it's allowed candidates to campaign from a place of fear that might not match up with what's happening on the ground and the broader data.

Brian Lehrer: Because his message matches up so closely with Adams, I know there was some speculation that Cuomo might not enter this race. The last thing he needs is to be rebuffed in a Democratic primary for mayor when he's trying to make a political comeback. Maybe what he really wants is to be governor again. It would be harder for him to run against Kathy Hochul next year if he runs for mayor and loses among the Democrats of New York City. He's running on that very similar message to Adams' message, as you point out.

Some of what I heard in speculation before this was, well, things are going to have to be worse for Adams before he does that. Adams is actually going to have to drop out, which doesn't seem likely at this moment. Why do you think he entered under these circumstances to go directly at Adams if he's staying in the race, or let's say to compete in that lane with Adams if he's staying in the race?

Elizabeth Kim: He's been watching very carefully. I think what he noticed, which is what all of us have reported on and noticed, is that Eric Adams entered this next-level stage of crisis with this alleged "quid pro quo" with the Trump administration involving the Justice Department requesting that his charges be dropped. The memo directly references that the mayor is very, very important to carrying out Trump's immigration crackdown.

Brian Lehrer: Isn't Cuomo, correct me if I'm wrong, because this is really important, more or less on that same page with not being as sanctuary city as the city was under de Blasio and where Adams and Trump are actually genuinely aligned to some degree. Is Cuomo making any distinction there and saying Adams is compromised because he's too close to Trump on these immigration policies now? I'm going to support the immigrants more. I don't think I'm hearing that.

Elizabeth Kim: No, you're right, Brian. He has-- It is almost a carbon copy of the mayor's rhetoric and policy agenda. You heard him the way he talks about homelessness and the mentally ill, and that we need more government intervention there. What I would say, though, and this was something that I felt palpable for the first time this week with the mayor is I think-- and you and I have talked about this. There are some people who had raised questions about whether the mayor was really going to run for a second term.

This was the week when I heard the mayor talk about his legacy in a way that made it seem like it was done. It was in the past that really, really sowed doubt in my mind about whether he is really committed to running for a second term. If you notice, if you listen very carefully, Cuomo doesn't go after the mayor. The mayor has really, for the most part, declined to go after Cuomo. What's going on there?

Brian Lehrer: What is. We will find out. We should mention that the last time Cuomo was in the spotlight was in 2021 when he resigned from the governorship after three major scandals, sexual assault allegations from female staffers that resulted in a report from the state attorney general, COVID nursing home deaths, and profitable book deal with some questions about that. Is there any indication yet whether voters are just relegating all of that to the past or how Cuomo is going to have to deal with it?

Elizabeth Kim: When I spoke to people who work on these kinds of campaigns before Cuomo entered the race, the traditional wisdom is that when you have so many negatives like that, your opponents are going to bring them up, they're going to try to relitigate them, and that's going to eat into your lead. I did, though, speak to someone else yesterday who made, I thought, which is a valid and possibly very astute point, is that over the last couple of days, in hearing the rest of the field attack Cuomo about the very long list that you named, that he wondered whether in some ways they are now losing the opportunity to define themselves. That we have now this-- it's like I think nine candidates.

If you have so many of these candidates that all they're doing is holding press conferences, doing videos where they're going over and attacking Cuomo's history, is that enough to persuade the public to vote for them? Because what kind of identity do they have in the public's mind? Like, I get it, I shouldn't vote for Cuomo, but tell me why I should vote for you.

Brian Lehrer: Let's finish with one more clip of the mayor who was asked, I guess this was on Monday in the news conference, his reaction to Cuomo entering the race. I know you pulled this clip because the mayor, rather than sounding like he's up for the fight, the mano a mano with these two very relatively macho guys, he sounds defeated in this clip. Let's listen.

Eric Adams: First of all, being mayor has been the greatest privilege of my life. My picture's going up in City Hall. I walk around at night and look at these pictures on here, and I only see David Dinkins. My picture will be in city hall. I'm 110. I mean, that's been the greatest thrill of my life to get here. That was the meat and potato. Term two is the gravy. I have a full stomach with the meat and potatoes. I'm going to show New Yorkers why it should be term two and New Yorkers make the decision.

Brian Lehrer: Almost sounds like a farewell address.

Elizabeth Kim: I thought so, too, Brian. If you know the mayor, he's talked about David Dinkins as his mentor, and it did mean a great deal for him to become, to follow in David Dinkins' footsteps to become the second Black mayor, but he also took lessons from David Dinkins. The thing that he most wanted to avoid was like David Dinkins being limited to one term.

Brian Lehrer: Elizabeth Kim, our lead Eric Adams reporter Liz Kim, who joins us most Wednesdays after the mayor's Tuesday news conferences. Liz, great job as always. Thank you.

Elizabeth Kim: Thanks, Brian.

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