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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we'll catch up on some of the latest news coming out of New York City Hall as we do most Wednesdays after the mayor's weekly Tuesday news conference with our lead Eric Adams reporter Elizabeth Kim. This hasn't been a typical week for Mayor Eric Adams. He did host his usual weekly press conference yesterday, where he was joined by NYPD's Chief of Transit, Tom Gulotta, to discuss the rollout of more cops patrolling subways overnight.

But earlier this week, as you probably heard, the mayor canceled his appearances at various events celebrating the life of Martin Luther King and ventured down to the nation's capital to attend Donald Trump's inauguration, although he was designated to only sit in the overfill room once he got there next to influencer-turned-boxer Jake Paul and his brother Logan Paul.

You may also recall that the mayor made a sudden trip to Florida to meet with the president late last week. Rumor has it that discussions of a presidential pardon were held, though Adams states that he "had a productive conversation about New York's needs and what's best for our city." Then last night, the mayor took another step into Trump's ecosystem, this time with an hour-long one-on-one interview with Tucker Carlson on his show on X. The two discussed Adams federal indictment, where he stands with the Democratic Party, migrants and more.

Joining me now, as she usually does on Wednesdays, is WNYC and Gothamist lead Eric Adams reporter Elizabeth Kim. Hi, Liz. Happy Wednesday.

Elizabeth Kim: Happy Wednesday, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: So let's just start with the rollout of Governor Hochul's plan to place police officers onto every subway during the hours of 9:00 PM to 5:00 AM. Here's NYPD Transit Bureau Chief Joseph Gulotta discussing the goals of officers patrolling at those hours.

Chief Joseph Gulotta: Our goal is to make sure we're on the train, we're stepping off the train at each station, we're switching to a different car at each station. We're going to make contact with the conductor and the motorman on these trains, and the goal for that is they're going to announce that a police officer is on that train. So if you get on that train and you may not see that police officer in the car, the MTA is going to make an announcement telling you, "Yes, there is a police officer on this train," and that'll alert people out of there. Secondly, at each platform, they're going to step off at the platform and step on another train, which is going to be also highly visible, and I think this is going to be a very effective way for us to move forward with this.

Brian Lehrer: All right, NYPD Transit Chief Joseph Gulotta at the mayor's news conference yesterday. Also, NBC New York has done the calculations. Liz, you've seen this, and according to them, there are 472 subway stations, 25 routes, and 665 miles of track across the city. I guess the first question is how much ground are officers covering so far, and are there particular subway lines that are being prioritized in stage one of the rollout?

Elizabeth Kim: The chief was asked that precise question is what train lines are you starting with? And he was also asked why. He didn't explain why, but he did identify the train lines. He said they are starting with the A, the G, the J, and the L. And so far, they have about 100 officers out there. He says the plan is to ramp up to 300, although he did not say when they would reach 300.

This entire initiative, we should remind listeners, is only for six months, and it's being funded partly by the governor, and I imagine that the city will chip in money too. Although, the mayor was asked this and he really declined to get specific on it, but so far, the governor has chipped in $77 million in total. It's supposed to be around $154 million. I thought the one question that the mayor didn't address was how does this initiative relate to homeless New Yorkers?

He was asked at one point-- actually, the chief was asked at one point, will they have EMTs on call if they come across someone who's homeless, or just even a broader question. Are there people who are going to be able to transport homeless New Yorkers and also find them a bed in a shelter? None of that was addressed and there was no discussion of how this links up to the mayor's mental health approach, which is having nurses and police officers paired up. So that was, I thought, absent in the policy discussion yesterday.

Brian Lehrer: And listeners, we can take calls with your reactions to these clips of the mayor's news conference or the issues that we're talking about that they pertain to, including the new deployment of police officers on every subway train overnight. Have you seen them? Are they making you feel any different? Subway workers invited to call in. Homeless people who use the subway invited to call in. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Call or text or on any of the other issues that we're about to get to, including the fact that much of the news coming out of City Hall this week is intertwined with Adam's growing relationship with President Trump.

Let's start with his attendance at the inauguration on Monday. I'll play a clip of the mayor discussing his decision to head to Washington after what he said was a middle of the night last minute invitation instead of attending the Martin Luther King Jr. Day events that were on his calendar.

Mayor Eric Adams: My life is the life that Dr. King was talking about when he says he had a dream. I'm living that dream. I'm living that dream and my desire to be in Washington to make sure I continue to move forward on that dream. And, you know, Reverend Sharpton and I have a long history. He'll be the first to tell you. You want to sit down and talk to Reverend Sharpton, he would tell you that, "Eric and I will disagree. Some things we agree on others, but we have a long, rich history," and I respect what he has done. I'm pretty sure he'll tell you he respects what I have done, including being the initial board member of the National Action Network. And so, I do not take critiques personally. I must lead this city, navigate this city forward, and that's what I'm going to do.

Brian Lehrer: And so he doesn't take Reverend Al Sharpton's critiques personally. I probably should have mentioned those critiques in setting up the clip, but Liz, Sharpton has been on this show as well as many, many, many other places as an ally of Eric Adams, even though one might think that they come from politically different orientations, right? Sharpton's such a criminal justice reform advocate, Adams having the relationship with police policy and police deployment that he has, but Sharpton has been a defender and an ally of Eric Adams. So what happened? Did he criticize Adams this week for going to the inauguration?

Elizabeth Kim: You're right, Brian. He's a staunch ally. What he did was he was on MSNBC, as he normally is, and when he was asked about the mayor's decision to go to DC, he said that that sort of decision to take that last-minute middle of the night trip, along with the fact that he also made that trip to Florida where he had lunch with Trump at his golf course, that together these two things do in fact raise eyebrows about where the mayor's interests really lie. Is he in fact just lobbying for his own interests and seeking a pardon?

That was a very, very significant statement for Sharpton to make, because as you said Brian, they don't agree on a lot of policy issues. Like, for example, Sharpton was really kind of on the other side of the mayor on the Daniel Penny case, but he does not criticize the mayor. And Sharpton has been very clear that he believes that with respect to the mayor's federal corruption case, that he deserves the presumption of innocence, and he has said that he does not think that the mayor should step down.

That has been this very important bulwark for the mayor to, I think, stay in office, so this is really, I think, something to watch is, does this support from Sharpton peel away? Does it embolden other Black leaders, particularly in the church community, to take a harsher stance towards the mayor?

Brian Lehrer: Was there really a middle of the night-- what did the mayor say? Did he say 1:00 AM, 3:00 AM last-minute invitation to attend the inauguration? Is that ever how those things work?

Elizabeth Kim: It sounded completely bizarre, but the mayor did in fact confirm what had been reported, which was some time-- he wasn't specific about the hour, but he acknowledged that it was late. It was after maybe 1:00 or midnight, he got a call from-- and he identified it as a member of the Trump administration asking him to go to the inauguration. He in fact left with his detail. He did not take a member of his staff with him, and he drove there.

Brian Lehrer: At 3:00 in the morning. He said that, right?

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, yes, he did, and it does track because the mayor sent out his schedule for the following day very late. He sent it out some time, I think, after 11:00 or so. It's quite late for him to send out the schedule. So as of 11:00, between 11:00 and 12:00, I think, when we got his schedule, we saw that he was planning to attend these Martin Luther King Jr. Day events, and then the next morning around-- it was before around 8:30, we saw that they had all been crossed out.

Brian Lehrer: Does the mayor have a point in a way, or at least would it be kind of normal business to think, "Well, I represent the City of New York," whatever his other personal interests may be, with a pardon or anything, "I represent the City of New York for a living. If I'm invited all of a sudden to attend the inauguration of the President of the United States and build relationships there," I don't think he got a personal audience with Trump, but with other people there who might be members of the administration, members of Congress, whatever, "You take it.".

Elizabeth Kim: I think that's fair, Brian, but I think you can't take out of this equation the fact that he is facing federal corruption charges, and he could stand to benefit in a big way from a pardon. You just cannot carve that out of the context here. The mayor, in fact, yesterday, he did try to say-- he pointed out he was not-- of course, he was not the only Democrat there. He pointed out that Hakeem Jeffries' there. I believe he also said Chuck Schumer was there, but then the question is we didn't see photos of the mayor meeting with Hakeem Jeffries or even mingling with Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer.

That would have been very normal for him to be talking to these top elected officials about the city's interests and what they need to do going into a Trump administration, but that was not what we saw. Instead, we saw a photo of the mayor having lunch with Republicans, former Republican Congressman, and this Senate Minority leader Rob Ortt.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a text, Liz, on the topic that we started with from yesterday's news conference, police officers patrolling every subway car overnight. Listener writes, "I heard there are ICE agents in the subway checking for passports and stuff." As far as you know, would that be a rumor and a fear, or are they also allowing ICE agents or deploying ICE agents going on the subway?

Elizabeth Kim: I have not heard that at all, Brian. That would be big news, if that were the case, and no. The mayor was asked repeatedly yesterday about how the city plans to respond to Trump's immigration orders, and although he kind of danced around a little bit, what we do know is that he has-- the city behind the scenes, agencies have been given training on basically these are the things you need to do if a federal immigration agent either stops at a shelter, you need to ask for XYZ, like a judicial warrant to enter, so there's this whole protocol that the city follows according to the city's own sanctuary laws. I don't know how the city would handle ICE agents coming into the subway system.

Brian Lehrer: Another text says, "So to be clear, the mayor of the largest city in the United States attends the inauguration of the 47th president of these United States, and he's put in the spillover room?" Another listener is happy that some other New York City leaders were calling out the mayor for canceling his MLK events. Listener writes, "I was at the BAM event. So glad our mayor got called out by other elected speakers, notably Congresswoman Nydia Velazquez, Council Speaker Adrienne Adams, and City Councilwoman Crystal Hudson," and mentions the exception in this text of Governor Hochul.

Now, yesterday's presser came after Trump signed more executive orders on day one than any other president. Can you set up this next clip for us from the mayor's press conference, Liz?

Elizabeth Kim: Sure. A reporter pointed out to Adams that Trump did sign this raft of executive orders and several of them conflict with the city's policies, particularly on immigration. One of the orders revokes birthright citizenship, and that has in turn triggered lawsuits from 22 states, including New York. The mayor was asked to basically opine on what do you think of some of these executive orders?

Mayor Eric Adams: There are a host of EOs that were done, and you know what? I do EOs. People sometimes don't agree with my Eos, and one thing I want to be very clear on is that the balance of power in this country. Those things I have power on, I could address those things that our executives, our legislative branch, they have power on, that's the balance of power in this country. He has the balance of power of using EOs.

One thing I got clear when I sat down with him, we're not going to agree on everything, but those areas that we disagree, I'm going to personally share with you. He has given me the opportunity to communicate with him directly on issues we disagree, and I respect that.

Brian Lehrer: The mayor hasn't commented on any specific executive order, but he said he'll only share his disagreements with the president directly rather than publicly. What should listeners take away from that statement from the mayor?

Elizabeth Kim: Exactly what you said, Brian. He's going to share his disagreements privately, it seems, with the president, but not publicly with his constituents. I think these are all very fair questions to know where does the mayor stand on these issues of immigration, of climate change. Is he not going to address these? These are issues in which the city has a stake as well. I think his constituents do deserve to know where the mayor stands on these issues.

Brian Lehrer: I want to play a--

Elizabeth Kim: They're certainly asked when he was campaigning. These are certainly questions that all the candidates are asked about when they're campaigning to be the leader of City Hall.

Brian Lehrer: Well, just as a point of contrast, I want to play a clip from the mayor of Chicago, Brandon Johnson, who was on Morning Edition yesterday, interviewed by A Martinez, I think, and he said this about some of Trump's executive orders.

Mayor Brandon Johnson: As a welcoming city and as a sanctuary city, we are firm in that our police department will not intervene or participate in any way as federal agents. None of our sister agencies or our city departments will cooperate or intervene in any way or any shape or any form.

A Martinez: But can you stop ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement?

Mayor Brandon Johnson: Look, they're a federal agent. If they come in with warrants, if they come in with their authority, no, we won't again intervene or support in any way. But what I can say is that we have worked with community-based organizations as well as other stakeholders so that the people of Chicago know their rights. That's the part that's most important here. That people can continue to go to work, they can go to school, they can use our public facilities without the fear of local police departments giving access to these federal agents to disrupt the flow and what we're doing in Chicago.

Brian Lehrer: Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson with A Martinez on Morning Edition yesterday. So, Liz, compare and contrast?

Elizabeth Kim: I will say that the mayor did urge undocumented New Yorkers to continue sending their children to school, to use the hospitals if they need to, to call the police if they need to, but he stopped short of talking about answering the question of, "Does the city hand over information?" which was in one of the executive orders that the president signed yesterday. He also stopped short of talking about what kind of cooperation would there be between police and federal immigration agents.

Instead, what he said is there have always been these special task forces that consist of local, state and federal officers. Of course, that's true, but he kind of just deflected the question and didn't answer it.

Brian Lehrer: In defense I think of the mayor going to the inauguration, Peter in Manhattan. No, Peter in Midtown, you're on WNYC. Hi, Peter.

Peter: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Yes, I understand the ability or the reasoning by putting everything that Mayor Adams does in the context of his indictments and looking at through that lens. But however, I think it is actually more reasonable or just as reasonable to say here is a man who is looking out for the city that he works for. He is building bridges with the people that own the power right now in Washington, DC, so him not necessarily being seen hobnobbing with Hakeem Jeffries does not surprise me if he's building bridges with some Republicans.

I think this is actually something that politicians have to do. I think it's a reflection almost of what we saw at the inauguration with the tech titans going there. He is just playing real politics and making sure that he's going to be somewhat insulated for the City of New York, and perhaps be looked at a little bit more lenient than, let's say, a Bill de Blasio would or any other mayor who would be performatively fighting the presidents and the Republicans on every single issue.

Brian Lehrer: Peter, thank you for your call. Liz, could it be both? And maybe he is interested in cozying up to Trump so a pardon becomes more likely. But maybe it is at the same time in the interest of the City of New York. Maybe the Trump administration on immigration raids or anything else is going to treat New York a little more lightly than they'll treat Chicago or some other city because Adams is being somewhat supportive or relational with the Trump administration. I don't know, but these are questions to ask.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes. I think Peter brings up a fair point, this idea of establishing-- getting off on the right foot with Trump, but I would say that the executive orders that were signed yesterday, the problem is that they so contradict with the city's policies. For example, stripping funding away from sanctuary cities. There was not a clause in there with the exception of New York City because it's being led by my friend Eric Adams. There was not that clause.

I guess we could wait and see how this plays out. Perhaps New York doesn't receive as much. Perhaps the intervention in New York City is less than we might anticipate. Time will tell.

Brian Lehrer: In the past, Adams has freely shared his disapproval of how the Biden administration handled immigration at the Southern border and with respect to the city. Here he is continuing to do so, and the content of this 1-minute clip be maybe less important than the context, which is Adams went on Tucker Carlson. Here it is.

Mayor Eric Adams: Sat down with the president and I said, "Mr. President, I'm not sure what they're telling you about this problem, but this is a terrible problem that's playing out on the ground that we need to fix our border and we need to just stop allowing people to come into the country with no destiny. We don't know what we're doing with them, and they were stuck-- there were some that were coming here that were almost six months to a year, in some cases two years without any work authorization. What do you do with someone that cannot provide for themselves for that long period of time?"

Tucker Carlson: Well, what do you do?

Mayor Eric Adams: We have to house them. We have to feed, clothe, house, educate 40,000 children, haul them into a shelter system, the complete package of what you would do for an adult that can't take care of themselves.

Tucker Carlson: So you tell the president and his aides this, and what do they say?

Mayor Eric Adams: Basically, "Be a good Democrat, Eric."

Tucker Carlson: Be a good Democrat?

Mayor Eric Adams: That was the basic overall theme. One of his aides told me that, "Listen, this is like a gallstone, it'll pass."

Brian Lehrer: So, Liz, is the story here what Adam said about Biden officials and immigration policy? He had some very valid, you and I have talked about this many times, very valid complaints to the Biden administration not giving us money to help resettle many of the migrants who were concentrating in New York, maybe more than anywhere else that wasn't actually along the southern border and other things. But what's more important here, the fact that he went on and repeated some of those things and had that line at the end that's making some news, that supposedly he was told, "Be a good Democrat, Eric?" Or is it Eric Adams went on Tucker Carlson, that's more cozying up to Trump world?

Elizabeth Kim: I think he's trying to accomplish two things. One, by going on Tucker Carlson, he's cementing his standing in this world, the MAGA world, which we've seen him doing over the past few months. The second thing is by revealing these very provocative details of his conversations with Biden, with Biden officials, he's making his case, he's buttressing his case that he was politically targeted. He's opening up for the first time, and he's suggested this actually before, but he's never said it in this direct way that he was instructed to be a good Democrat, and because he refused to be a good Democrat. He refused to back down on his criticism of the way the border crisis was playing out in New York City, that he was effectively punished. I think that is an argument that he is bringing both to Trump, but also to his supporters, that this is all unfair, this was a political witch hunt.

Brian Lehrer: Before we run out of time, I just want to note something that the New York Times in its article about this pointed out today. Reporter Dana Rubenstein, who reminded us that in 2021, Adams described Tucker Carlson as someone who "perpetuates racist, anti-immigrant propaganda". Was he asked about that yesterday?

Elizabeth Kim: He was asked about it. I reached out to the mayor after, because we didn't learn-- also this is another thing. He doesn't put this on his schedule. We didn't learn that this interview was going to drop until Tucker Carlson went on social media and released a promo of it. When the mayor's office was asked about this, they responded to the fact that the mayor has been critical of him by suggesting that this was just another form of the mayor building bridges with people he doesn't agree with.

Brian Lehrer: But it also arguably serves to rehabilitate Tucker Carlson, who got fired from Fox News, let's remember, and the reporting around that was that he got fired in part for having extreme views like so-called replacement theory that were too much even for Fox News. One could say Eric Adams is participating in the rehabilitation, the normalization of Tucker Carlson.

Elizabeth Kim: I think that's right, Brian. I think this was mutual beneficial. I think Tucker Carlson got to have a guest, and it attracts viewers and listeners to his streaming network, which you have to pay. It's $90 a month to watch these kind of interviews that he conducts and it also allowed the mayor a forum, a forum and also a conduit to Trump by sitting with Tucker in an interview that-- he rarely does one on ones, much less one on ones at Gracie Mansion, which was where this interview was done.

Brian Lehrer: Well, I'll be very interested to see what this growing relationship with President Trump has effect on in terms of federal policy toward immigrants or anyone else in New York City as we move forward here and the Trump administration tries to do so much right in its first days and weeks. Our lead Eric Adams reporter is Elizabeth Kim. She's here with us most every Wednesday after the mayor's Tuesday news conferences. Liz, probably talk to you next week.

Elizabeth Kim: Bye, Brian, thank you.

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