Title: Rep. Goldman Responds to President Trump's Executive Orders [MUSIC]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. With us now, Congressman Dan Goldman, Democrat from lower Manhattan and parts of inner Brooklyn near Manhattan. He has experience relevant to the suspension of charges against Mayor Eric Adams and the resignation in protest of the acting US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Danielle Sassoon, yesterday. Goldman himself was an assistant US Attorney in that office for 10 years, focusing mostly on organized crime and white-collar crime.

Separately, he was also the lead counsel for the prosecution in the first Trump impeachment case, the one alleging other instances of Trump allegedly extorting policy announcements, in that case from Ukraine. We'll talk to him about the Adams and Justice Department situation and more. Congressman Goldman, welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Dan Goldman: Thanks so much for having me, Brian. Great to be with you.

Brian: With your decade of experience as an assistant US Attorney in Manhattan, what just happened here this week as you see it?

Congressman Goldman: I'll put it very simply. As we have expected and we're concerned, Donald Trump has completely politicized the Department of Justice, and the Department of Justice directed the Southern District of New York, which is one of 94 US Attorneys' Offices under the umbrella of the Department of Justice, to dismiss the case against Eric Adams without prejudice, which means that it could be reinstated in November, they specified. They directed that not because of the strength of the evidence or the legal theories, but simply because of politics.

What Danielle Sassoon, the acting US Attorney, wrote back and explained, and I urge everyone to read her letter because it is a model of what the Department of Justice should be and what this Trump Department of Justice is not. She said, "My duty is to prosecute cases without fear or favor, which means that I must follow the facts, the evidence, and the law only, and I cannot take into consideration partisanship or politics. What you are asking me to do is to make a purely political decision, which I cannot, in good faith, do while upholding my oath of office, and so I am going to resign." She resigned because she refused to dismiss the case against Eric Adams.

What the Department of Justice is doing is true politicization and weaponization of the Department. I would just point out the difference in what Donald Trump's bogus allegations are for the last four years about the weaponization of the Department of Justice that has no evidence, that has no support. When you compare what he's talking about, which includes a court-authorized search warrant, two grand jury indictments, mounds and mounds of evidence, and you compare it to what his Justice Department has just instructed, there's no question, Brian, that this was a political decision because the acting Deputy Attorney General said it in a memo.

We know very clearly it was a purely political situation, and I will say, as an alum of the Southern District, I don't think my politics align very much with Danielle Sassoon, but I'm very proud that she stood up for what that office represents. I know many of my fellow alumni are very proud, both of her and the office, for doing the right thing under a lot of pressure.

Brian: She was, as I understand it from the reporting today, a Republican who had clerked for Justice Scalia at the Supreme Court and et cetera, but she took this stand now on this. We now have accusations of the weaponization of the Justice Department by Trump and Adams regarding the department under Biden and by Sassoon and you and others against the Justice Department under Trump. I understand that you believe one is real and the other is fake, but trust in the justice system seems to be eroding on both sides. Is there a way out of this cycle?

Congressman Goldman: Yes, doing things like what Danielle Sassoon did is the way out of this cycle. I think you also have to look at who is claiming that the Justice Department is politicized. It's defendants who have been charged by the Department of Justice, who are trying to wiggle their way out of criminal charges that were passed up by a grand jury based on evidence and law, versus someone like Danielle Sassoon, who is an apolitical, nonpartisan prosecutor who just absolutely destroyed the acting Deputy Attorney General, Emil Bove, who was Donald Trump's personal lawyer right up until he took over in his Justice Department. He represented Trump on the special counsel cases.

That is how we find our way out of this, is people doing the right thing for the right reasons, explaining their rationale, and showing what true politicization is, versus bogus allegations that are self-fulfilling and designed solely to protect a defendant who's been charged with criminal conduct.

Brian: Some people are calling on Governor Hochul to remove Adams from office, which she could do under the law if she thinks he's compromised. Should she do that, in your opinion, or let Adams face the voters and let them decide in the June primary?

Congressman Goldman: Look, I think it's not so simple for the governor to remove the mayor. There has to be a process, there has to be due process involved. She would have to come up with some sort of process that allows him to make a claim or make a defense. She would have to bring so-called misconduct charges against him. It's complicated. I'm not sure that that is, honestly, the best way, but she certainly can do it. I think if she initiated a process like that, it would put Mayor Adams in a very difficult situation.

The upsetting part about this, really upsetting from my vantage point, both as a former prosecutor and as a current elected official, is that the way that the Trump Justice Department structured this deal is a blatant extortion. It is a quid pro quo. It is to say to Eric Adams, "We'll dismiss your case, we'll hang it over your head until November when we will reevaluate your case. We're not going to reevaluate your case based on the facts and the evidence. We're going to reevaluate your case based on the degree to which you cooperate with our immigration policy." That is using a criminal prosecution for political means, which is corrupt, it is unethical, and it is an abuse of power.

The mayor still has a chance to stand up for doing what is the right thing here, which is to say, "No, I'm not going to accept a dismissal on these terms. If you're going to dismiss the case, dismiss the case with prejudice. Don't bring it back and don't have it as a sort of Damocles hanging over my head."

Brian: Did you see, by the way, the indication on Fox & Friends this morning of how explicitly a quid pro quo this appears to be? We talked about it in our last segment, but Mayor Adams was on with Tom Homan, President Trump's border czar. I'm pulling up this quote of Homan. Sorry, I had it a minute ago. There it is. Homan says with Adams sitting right there, "If he doesn't come through, I'll be back in New York and we won't be sitting on the couch.

I'll be in his office up his butt saying, where the hell is the agreement we came to?" Now, I don't know the whole context of that interview, so I don't know if he was joking and trying to dismiss the idea that this was a quid pro quo, or if he was really reinforcing it. Did you happen to see that or have an opinion about that?

Congressman Goldman: I didn't see it, but I did hear about it. I think what is perhaps the most remarkable thing here is how blatant and open this quid pro quo is. The immigration czar, who obviously was hired because he would like to prevent any immigration into this country, and that he has made that very clear, is exacting the kind of cooperation that someone committing an extortion would do, and he's doing it in the open, wide open.

Part of this is the reason why we're in this ridiculous toilet bowl here in New York City where we're even talking about whether a case should be dismissed for political reasons and so that the mayor can comply with the president's policies. You know what, Brian, it's time for us to turn the page. That's part of the reason why this week I endorsed Zellnor Myrie to be the next mayor of New York, who's a new generation of Democrats here in New York City, who is pragmatic, practical, and shares the values of this city. That's what we need moving forward.

Brian: Briefly, and there are some other things I want to get to with you before we run out of time, but why Myrie over the other progressive candidates, because there's quite a field of them running in that primary.

Congressman Goldman: I think that from working with Zellnor Myrie, who's a state senator and overlaps with my district in Congress, I have seen a really creative, thoughtful visionary who has a true desire to find solutions and get results. When you look at his housing policy with a desire to build a million new homes, which New York City desperately needs. When you look at his public safety policy, where he is focusing on the critical issues of gun violence, he wants to add detectives so that we can clear old cases and get dangerous criminals off the street.

While also adding universal aftercare so that we can continue to invest in our children to keep them busy and also keep them progressing, he brings the balance of true progressive values with a pragmatism and practical approach that this city really needs. He's not as well known, and I've been lucky enough to get to know him, but I'm really excited to endorse him and support him.

Brian: Let me take a call from your district. Nancy in Manhattan, you're on WNYC with Congressman Dan Goldman. Hello?

Nancy: Hi. Good morning. Several of your callers have pointed out that there have been no public demonstrations or very few. Last week, Public Citizen had a kind of town hall, and it was mentioned that while they're bringing lawsuits, what's missing in terms of resistance is the public getting to the streets. Indivisible and some other organizations are organizing some demonstrations on Monday. The one in New York City is in Union Square at one o'clock, and people need to show up. The response has to be not only to-- The resistance to Trump has to come not only from the courts, but from the people. It is important that those demonstrations that we saw years ago get organized and begin to happen again.

Brian: Nancy, thank you. Congressman, why do you think the response from the public, as well as from many Democratic politicians, has been so much more muted at the outset of Trump's second term? I guess since Nancy is talking about a protest that's going to be in your district at Union Square, is that something you plan to attend on Monday?

Congressman Goldman: I think that we have all learned from Trump 1.0 that-- We've learned a lot about Donald Trump, which is that he uses his most outrageous and flamboyant statements to distract from what he's really trying to do that will hurt and undermine our country. In this particular situation, there's a lot coming at all of us. Some of it is drawing more outrage, but is not actually what he's focused on. What we certainly are doing in Congress and urge all of the public to do it, and there have been some examples of success, is that when he takes actions that are going to hurt the American people, we have to rise up and we have to object. We have to make our voices heard.

I will say, just as a member of Congress, it matters. It matters, especially it matters if you're a Republican elected official in a purple district or purple state, and the people from that district in that state make their voices known, make their opinions known, that they do not want Elon Musk to take over the federal government, that they do not want Elon Musk to be making decisions about what government contracts should be canceled when he has $13 billion of government contracts himself, and that we do not want the wealthiest man in the world, an unelected billionaire, calling the shots for our federal government, which provides so many New Yorkers and so many Americans with essential federal programs.

This happened when they tried to freeze federal funding altogether. Basically, there was an uproar and outrage from Americans all over the country. It put a lot of pressure on the Republican-elected representatives, and they then put pressure on Donald Trump, who ultimately, a day later, rescinded that order. We can be effective, and when there are actions that need opposition, we will rise up. I think that that's incredibly important.

Brian: As it pertains to your party, a majority of the voters of the United States did discount the criminal charges against Trump when making their decisions. Does that indicate that when you talk about issues that are real versus issues that are distractions, like as serious as January 6th was, for example, that you and your impeachment role regarding Ukraine and other Democratic politicians and other prosecutors have lost the plot here of what the electorate cares about in deciding who its leaders are, maybe focusing too much on Trump did this or Trump did that rather than, say, prosperity and public safety?

Congressman Goldman: I think what we did not do a good enough job of in the last cycle, and I'm guilty of this myself, is connecting Trump's corruption and his abuse of power and his attacks on democracy to how it affects everyday lives. It became a situation, I think, in many respects where to pardon January 6th defendants, it was very bad. In other words, people were not in favor of that. When you polled the things in Project 2025, which Donald Trump is now implementing, they polled very poorly. It was too hypothetical for a lot of people who were facing higher prices, who were trying to figure out how they were going to pay rent and food and healthcare by the end of the month.

What we are focused on right now is explaining and explaining to the American people and making sure everyone understands how these anti-democratic actions that Elon Musk and Donald Trump are taking, that are attacking our rule of law, that are attacking our system of government, our separation of powers, how is that going to affect you, an everyday American? It will affect you all and everyone because they are coming after Medicaid. They are coming after SNAP. They are coming after Social Security benefits. They are coming after every federal government program that hundreds of millions of Americans rely on.

If they are able to usurp the entire power of the federal government, which is what they're trying to do, the Republicans in Congress are not providing a check and a balance on that. That is ultimately what they will do. They are trying to cut taxes for billionaires and they are trying to make the American people pay for it by cutting services for the American people.

Brian: There is a House budget blueprint coming from the Republican majority this week. I read that it includes trillions of dollars in budget cuts and trillions of dollars in tax cuts. Are those the numbers you're seeing?

Congressman Goldman: That's what they're they're trying to do. Let's remember their tax cuts are at least three times larger than their spending cuts, as it stands right now, which means that they will continue to increase the deficit. They will raise inflation and they will do it not on the backs of the billionaires who have taken over our government because their taxes will be cut. They're doing it on the backs of working Americans whose services will be taken away, whose essential programs will be taken away, and whose prices and affordability will get even more difficult. That's what they're proposing.

Let's remember, Brian, the Republicans in the House have a one-vote majority right now. They were very incapable of getting anything done last Congress when they had a larger majority. It is really important for every American to understand how that makes a difference because 2026 is right around the corner. There are a lot of purple district Republicans who, if we put the pressure on correctly, know that they will have to make a decision between supporting Donald Trump and his tax cuts for billionaires and cutting all of the services that Americans rely on versus their re-election. We need to make sure that we're making our voices heard, that we oppose tax cuts for billionaires and we oppose cuts to Medicaid and SNAP and Head Start and so many other essential government programs.

Brian: Trump would argue he's fighting waste and fraud and unnecessary expenditures like a lot of foreign aid, in their view, and that the tax cuts in his first term helped lead to economic growth and low unemployment with little inflation. Your response to that argument? Because I'm sure we'll hear that going forward.

Congressman Goldman: Absolutely. You will get no opposition from Democrats, certainly from me, that we need to cut waste, fraud, and abuse out of our federal government. We need to make the government bureaucracy more efficient. The problem is how they are doing it, which is both illegal and unconstitutional because they are taking away Congress's power of the purse. We have no idea what Elon Musk is doing. Nobody has any idea. He is making determinations that things are wasteful or fraudulent within hours of going into any executive branch agency. There's no support for it. There's no proof of it.

He's not being transparent. He's not telling us how they're doing it, and they don't intend to bring it back to Congress, which they're required to do so that they can show their work and so that we can pass a budget or pass a law that would rescind some of this funding and streamline our government. They're intentionally avoiding Congress. It's not the principle. It's the mechanism and the effort to just take over government in a true authoritarian way.

Brian: Last thing on an entirely different matter, and I ask because Stonewall is in your district. I don't know if you've seen this development from the Trump administration or the response to it. I have a statement here by New York State Senator Brad Hoylman-Sigal on what he describes as the decision to remove references to transgender people at the Stonewall National Monument. According to the senator, the Trump administration has decided to strike the word transgender from the website for the Stonewall National Monument. Did you know about that? Is there anything, as the congressman from Stonewall, as well as the rest of your district, of course, if there's anything you would do about it?

Congressman Goldman: It's despicable, Brian. The way that this Trump administration is essentially trying to erase all diversity in our country. It is misrepresenting DEI. It is attacking diversity. It is attacking the very groups that create the dynamism and fabric of this country. It is true with transgender. It is true with anti-Semitism. They're taking away the Holocaust Remembrance Day from the calendar. It is true with Black history. It is true with Asian-American history. It's despicable.

Brian: They're taking Holocaust Remembrance Day away from the calendar. I hadn't heard that one.

Congressman Goldman: Yes, and Jewish American Heritage Month, they're taking it off of the official calendar just to mark the day. They're just essentially trying to literally whitewash this country and take us back to the 1950s with a Christian nationalist, white supremacist approach that is counter, that is completely opposite to the very foundational values of our country. We will continue to speak out.

Brian: Just as a matter of factual history, it's probably worth noting for some people who don't know that history from long ago, that there were some trans individuals who were very prominent in the original Stonewall uprising. It's not like it was gratuitously put in there for any reason. There were individuals who were central to that day in those days, and they're taking that identity out of the-

Congressman Goldman: I will just say, Brian--

Brian: -[unintelligible 00:25:07] website, apparently.

Congressman Goldman: It's an attack on transgenders, but it's an attack on all of us. We all need to unite against this disgusting hate against transgender and everyone else. I take it personally when they go after the transgender community, which is a vulnerable community. People trying to live their own lives as they want to, and the government is trying to come in under Donald Trump and tell people how they should live their lives. It is the same exact thing as they're doing with reproductive freedom. They're trying to be in our doctor's offices. They're trying to be in our places of worship. They're trying to be in our community centers and cultural centers. It's despicable and it's anti-American.

Brian: Congressman Dan Goldman represents lower Manhattan and parts of inner Brooklyn near Manhattan. Congressman, thanks for your time today.

Congressman Goldman: Thank you, Brian.

Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Much more to come.

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