Title: Previewing All Of It's Public Song Project 2025.

[MUSIC]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. As some of you know, in 2023, our colleagues at Olivet started their Public Song Project. They invited anyone to submit songs based on music that became part of the public domain that year, which is generally 95 years after the particular songs were published. In 2024, for WNYC Centennial, they invited some professional musician friends to help out and even made an album with its own very cool vinyl pressing. Next Wednesday, they'll host a party to celebrate their work. Joining us now to explain All Of It's Public Song Project and what to expect next Wednesday at Joe's Pub in Manhattan and in the 2025 edition is All Of It producer Simon Close. Hey Simon, welcome back to the show.

Simon Close: Hey, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Do you want to say anything more to just introduce the concept of Public Song Project to people who don't know it yet?

Simon Close: Totally. The Public Song Project is an invitation for anybody in the listening audience to send in a song based on work in the public domain. That could be a song cover or it could be an adaptation of a movie that's in the public domain, or poetry, or a book. If you're not familiar with the idea of the public domain, it basically is this conceptual space that describes anything that no longer has a copyright, so it is up for grabs to adapt, or remix, or share, broadcast, whatever you want to do with it. It's free to use.

Brian Lehrer: Now, listeners, in addition to describing the upcoming Joe's Pub event and playing some public domain or public song project tracks, Simon has come with a game for you to play, a little trivia game. No prizes, but you'll get bragging rights. 212-433-WNYC. This is Public Domain Trivia. Simon, I'm told, was up through the night writing these questions. 212-433-WNYC. Who wants to play Public Domain Trivia just for the fun of it? 221-243-3 WNYC, 212 433-9692. Set this part of this segment up for us further, Simon. What do you mean by Public Domain Trivia?

Simon Close: Well, what better way to spend a night of insomnia than thinking about legal nuance trivia? I've got a few categories of Public Domain Trivia. A little bit of the history of the public domain and copyright law in the US. A little bit about what is entering this year. Then I've got a little round of true or false. Is it in the public domain or not?

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. All right. If you get two in a row, we will declare you a master of your public domain.

Simon Close: [laughs] Exactly.

Brian Lehrer: You can get the reference there or not. Master of your public domain. 212-433-WNYC. Who wants to play and try to get two in a row? Meanwhile, All Of It pressed its Public Song Project LP on transparent red vinyl recently. It's so cool to even look at, never mind, listen to. Let's talk about some of the many talented musicians who recorded songs for the project. Our listeners are probably familiar, at least some of them, with Rhiannon Giddens, who's known for her eclectic folk music, as it is described sometimes. You want to set us up to listen to the song excerpt that she recorded?

Simon Close: Sure. This song is called I'm a Little Blackbird Looking for a Bluebird. It's originally associated with the singer Florence Mills, I think is her last name, and it comes from a Broadway show from the early 1920s. She was also, Florence Mills was part of a show called Shuffle Along in the 1920s that was one of the first all-Black musicals on Broadway. The reason that Rhiannon picked this song is that George C. Wolfe in 2015 or '16 did a new version of that show or a new Broadway show that was dedicated to Shuffle Along. Rhiannon was set to appear in that show, but it ended before she could join the role. Rhiannon recorded this song as a nod to that role and the singer that she might have been able to embody at one time. It's really delightful. It's just Rhiannon on banjo doing a very Rhiannon Giddens take on this tune.

Brian Lehrer: Here we go.

[MUSIC - Rihannon Giddens: I'm a Little Blackbird Looking for a Bluebird]

I'm a little blackbird looking for a bluebird too

You know little blackbirds get a little lonesome too and blue

I've been all over from east to west

In search of someone to feather my nest

Why don't I find one the same as you do

The answer must be that I am a hoodoo

Brian Lehrer: All right. Wow, Rhiannon Giddens is so good. Let's just keep going. Roseanne Cash, for people who need this context, the daughter of Johnny Cash and her husband, John Leventhal, recorded a song for the LP. You want to set up that clip before we hear a little?

Simon Close: Sure, yes. This song is called Anytime. It's from 1921. It was written by Herbert "Happy" Lawson. The original recording of it, I think, was done on ukulele. I think the artist was a guy called Ukulele Ike. Then in the following decades, it got revived as a country hit, which, I think, is how Roseanne and John ended up doing it. Because, of course, as you mentioned, Roseanne is country royalty. This take that you hear on it is a little bit different from that original composition, but that is the beauty of the public domain. You can do whatever you want with a song. This is kind of a nod to its country reimagining.

Brian Lehrer: Here we go.

[MUSIC - Roseanne Cash: Anytime]

Anytime you're feeling lonely

Anytime you're feeling blue

Anytime you feel downhearted

That will prove your love for me is true

Anytime you're thinking about me

Brian Lehrer: All right. All Of It releases records now, in addition to Alison's great interviews and everything else. Aaron in Kensington is ready to play a little Public Domain Trivia.

Simon Close: All right.

Brian Lehrer: Hi, Aaron. You're on WNYC with All of It producer Simon Close. Hey there.

Aaron: Hello. Very excited. I had zero faith I'll get any of these correct, but let's play.

Simon Close: I've got faith in you, Aaron.

Aaron: All right, thank you.

Simon Close: Let's go for it, Brian, yes?

Brian Lehrer: Go for it.

Simon Close: We're going to go back to the very early days of the US public domain here. The first question for you, Aaron, is the first piece of federal legislation concerning copyrights in the US Was signed into law in what year? I'll give you four options. 1790, 1806, 1832, or 1840.

Aaron: : I'm going to go with '32.

Simon Close: That's a great guess. Actually, it was 1790, but I'm going to give you--

Aaron: Wow.

Simon Close: Actually, I'll say a little more about it. It's the Copyright Act of 1790. It was specifically in its language concerned with maps, charts, and books, which is a pretty funny trio of things, especially when you compare it to the public domain now. Of course, they weren't thinking about movies and sound recordings in 1790.

Brian Lehrer: Aaron--

Simon Close: Sorry, Brian, go on.

Brian Lehrer: Aaron, thanks for playing. Thanks for giving it a try. Shelly in Westport is ready to play Public Domain Trivia. Hi, Shelly. You're on WNYC.

Shelly: Hi. Happy New Year to you and thanks for getting me through. We had another new year.

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] Thank you. Go ahead, Simon.

Simon Close: All right, Shelly. We were just talking about that first Copyright Act of 1790. I'm going to ask you a follow-up question about it. How long do you think it established copyright terms for? Was it 6 years, 14 years, 26 years, or 44 years?

Shelly: 26 years.

Simon Close: Also a good guess, but actually, it was even shorter than that. If you publish something-

Brian Lehrer: Wow.

Simon Close: -around 1790, then it was protected for 14 years, and you had the option to renew it for another 14. Pretty close to 26 years, but technically, only 14, which is a lot less than the current term, which is things that are entering the public domain have been protected for 95 years.

Brian Lehrer: Shelly, thanks for giving it a shot. We'll do one more. Kevin in Denver, you're on WNYC. Hi, Kevin.

Kevin: Hey, how are you?

Simon Close: Hey, Kevin.

Kevin: Can you hear me?

Simon Close: Yes. Here's your question.

Kevin: Okay.

Simon Close: We were talking about early public domain. Now, we're going to talk about more recent law. The last really major piece of copyright legislation was passed in 1998 and signed into law by Bill Clinton. This is the one that set the copyright terms for the 95-year period that I was talking about. What lawmaker's name is part of the name of that act? I'll give you a hint, which is that he was part of a pop music duo.

Kevin: Oh, boy.

Simon Close: I'll give you another hint.

Kevin: The only one that pops in--

Simon Close: Oh, sorry. If you want to take a guess.

Kevin: No, go ahead. I'll take more hints that I can get.

Simon Close: Sure. Your other hint is that the other person in that pop duo was Cher.

Kevin: Oh, Bono.

Simon Close: Sonny Bono, yes. It's the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. He'd been a sponsor on it. He died a few months before it was passed, so they named it in his honor.

Kevin: Oh, wow. Cool. All right.

Brian Lehrer: One more for the bragging rights. We're going to go the extra mile here because these questions have been hard.

Simon Close: These are tricky, yes. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: We can say that Simon Close from All Of It is a true public domain geek, and so these have been really hard. Here's what we're going to do. If you get it right, Kevin, we're going to throw in a Brian Lehrer Show baseball cap as a prize, not just bragging rights. You can wear it around Denver-

Kevin: Wow, awesome.

Brian Lehrer: -wear it to the Broncos game, and somebody there is going to say, "Hey, I come from New York. I know that show." All right, hit him with his last question.

Simon Close: All right. This is the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. We were just talking about it. It also goes by another unofficial name, sort of tongue-in-cheek name. What is it? I'll give you another hint, which is that as of last year's public domain drop, this name is a little bit ironic or kind of outdated now. I'll give you one more hint because these are tough, I know, which is that the name has to do with a certain cartoon character who entered the public domain.

Kevin: The Mickey Mouse rule.

Simon Close: Yes, the Mickey Mouse Protection Act. Exactly.

[celebratory sound]

Brian Lehrer: That was a good hint. Name a cartoon character, any cartoon character, and you're fairly likely to start with Mickey Mouse. Kevin, congratulations. Hang on. We're going to take your address off the air, and we're going to send you a Brian Lehrer Show baseball cap. Man, you are really into this public domain stuff, son.

Simon Close: I am learning that right now.

[laughter]

Brian Lehrer: Tell people what's going to happen at Joe's Pub next Wednesday.

Simon Close: Sure. We'll have two of the artists who are part of that vinyl that we were talking about before. DJ Rekha and Joanna Sternberg will both be performing. Then we'll have three of the winners from the 2024 Public Song Project contest. They're Mal Petty, Juliet Riley, and Moon Trip. They are all listeners who sent in songs. Then we picked some of our favorites of those, and they were among our favorites. We'll be relaunching the project this year, so keep your ears tuned to that. They'll be performing. There will also be some trivia. We'll be giving out some vinyl as prizes for the trivia because I know it's pretty hard. It'll be like a variety musical show, and it's at the Joe's Pub. There will be food and drink, and it'll be a great time celebrating the public domain.

Brian Lehrer: Part of the history that I think you established in the quiz is that artists got to keep copyright on their works, meaning other people couldn't use them without paying the artists for not that long a time at first, but now it's 95 years, right?

Simon Close: Yes. Things that are entering the public domain right now are from 95 years ago, for the most part. It's also different if you were to publish something yourself this year. Brian, if you were to write a song or publish a book, then it would be protected for your life, plus another 70 years. A pretty long time.

Brian Lehrer: This past Wednesday, I understand, was public domain day, which means works from 1929 are now open to all. 1929 being 95 years ago last Wednesday, as are sound recordings from 1924, the recordings made as opposed to the music being published, the recordings from 100 years ago. I think you're going to set something up for us, one more clip that we're going to hear in this segment.

Simon Close: Yes, I think we've got--

Brian Lehrer: Fats Waller?

Simon Close: Yes, we've got Fats Waller. This is a clip of Fats Waller. I'm blanking on the name of the song.

Brian Lehrer: It ain't Misbehavin'.

Simon Close: Of course, Ain't Misbehavin'.

Brian Lehrer: Let's just do it. 20 seconds.

Simon Close: Yes.

[MUSIC - Fats Waller: Ain't Misbehavin']

No one to talk with

All by myself

No one to walk with

But I'm happy on the shelf

Ain't misbehavin'

I'm savin' my love for you

For you, for you, for you

Brian Lehrer: Are you going to launch the Public Song Project again for this year, where any listener can say, "Okay, I'm going to do my own interpretation of Fats Waller's Ain't Misbehavin' because now I can"?

Simon Close: Yes, totally. I would love to hear anybody's interpretation. It can be faithful or it can be a totally different reimagining. We're calling this party at Joe's Pub The Relaunch. We'll be sharing more information about how to submit in the following weeks. I should just say, by the way, I've been talking about this event, but if you want to come to it, seats are limited and you should get your ticket now by going to wnyc.org/publicsong.

Brian Lehrer: For the Public Song performance at Joe's Pub next Wednesday. All right, we'll go out with one more music track because there's one very special musical number entering the public domain. Singin' in the Rain. No, this is the 1929 version, not Gene Kelly's.

[MUSIC - Singin' in the Rain]

I'm singing in the rain, just singing in the rain

What a glorious feelin' and I'm happy again

I'm laughing at clouds so dark up above

Brian Lehrer: All right. Simon Close, Singin' in the Rain. The famous Gene Kelly is 1952, but it's in the public domain because it came out in '29, and that was an original recording, right?

Simon Close: Exactly, yes. That is in the public domain, but Gene Kelly's is not yet for another few decades.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Listeners, get ready to record your own version of Ain't Misbehavin' or Singin' in the Rain or anything else entering the public domain this year, and go check out the All Of It Public Song Project event at Joe's Pub next Wednesday. Simon Close, thanks a lot.

Simon Close: Thanks, Brian.

 

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