Title: PATH's 'Summer of Hell'

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Brigid: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, sitting in for Brian today. Now, if you ride the PATH train between New Jersey and New York, you probably don't need me to tell you it's been a rough summer. Fires, a derailment, signal failures, and a brand new $31 million track project that was supposed to make things more reliable, but instead led to more chaos. Some commuters have taken to calling this the PATH riders' own "Summer of hell."

One fire at a Newport station earlier this month sent 19 people to the hospital, and the National Transportation Safety Board says it was caused by electrical arcing, sparks jumping from the third rail to a train car. Meanwhile, Hoboken Terminal is closing again over Labor Day weekend to finish repairs on a track interlocking that malfunctioned in July, causing that derailment. What went wrong, and what will it take to fix the PATH system short and long term? Joining us is Larry Higgs, transportation and commuting reporter for NJ.com and the Star-Ledger, who's been covering what PATH riders are living through this summer. Hey, Larry, welcome back to WNYC.

Larry: Thanks. Pleasure to be here.

Brigid: Listeners, PATH riders especially, how has this summer of hell affected you? Have you been caught in one of the fires, the derailment delays, or the Hoboken shutdowns? Have you had to change your commute or even rethink living in Hoboken or Jersey City because of PATH? Give us a call and help us report this story. Call or text your questions or comments to 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Larry, you've covered commuter rail in New Jersey for years. How does this summer for PATH compare to the summer of hell New Jersey transit riders endured in 2017?

Larry: It's similar in some aspects and different in others. The similarity is that these are infrastructure-driven problems. As you mentioned, problems with the interlocking. There are also daily problems that PATH riders deal with. Some of them chronicle it on social media. There's at least one guy who keeps a running tally on X. He's talking about thousands of delays and service suspensions, and he just goes down the list of signal problems, track problems, car problems, network communication problems, which is basically computer issues that make positive train control work.

You add these other problems of the two fires in May, the July derailment in Hoboken, and the decision to take Hoboken Terminal out of service for five days starting tonight, actually, and it's been a real nightmare. Unlike the New York City subway system, PATH is a small system, so it's not like saying if there's a problem with the D train, I can jump on a B train. The PATH is basically a 13-mile system with four basic lines. When there's a problem, PATH riders have to rely on somebody else's transit system. In New York, they'll get on the subway or the bus. If it's in New Jersey, they're going to jump on NJ Transit or the ferry.

Brigid: I think, unfortunately, the number of fires within the PATH system give a little weight to this hell metaphor. This month, there was a fire at the Newport Station in Jersey City. Can you talk about exactly what happened there?

Larry: Yes. This was interesting because-- That fire has sparked some controversy among riders and the Port Authority because it was initially reported as a smoke condition. None of the alerts that went out to commuters said it's a fire until, basically, a rider who was being evacuated from a different train in Newport was shooting video, and part of his video showed the PATH train car in flames in the station, which prompted the National Transportation Safety Board to investigate. They're already investigating two fires that happened in May.

This one was attributed to a track problem, an arcing between the third rail, which provides power, and the train car, and it set the train car on fire. A quick-thinking PATH conductor saw the flames, radioed the motorman, they stopped the train in the station so people could evacuate, but still 15 passengers suffered minor injuries, and 4 PATH employees had to be sent to the hospital.

Brigid: As you mentioned, capturing video of flames to force the agency to come clean and admit that it wasn't a smoke condition doesn't say a lot about the agency's communication with the public, exactly.

Larry: This is the duality. PATH riders and officials have been bringing this up at numerous Port Authority board meetings for the past couple of months. They've been saying, "Yes, we get alerts, but the alerts are very generic. They don't give us the kind of details that we need." It mirrors complaints that NJ Transit riders have as well. If you give commuters detailed information, they can have an idea of how bad this problem is, and do I need to go grab the bus or go grab a ferry on my own instead of waiting for the agency to say, "This is really bad, we're cross-honoring, go to the bus and the ferry."

For a lot of commuters, by the time that alert comes out and says we're cross-honoring, it's too late because those entities are mobbed. The other side for commuters is they have to do their own personal stuff. I interviewed NJT commuters in Hoboken who just missed their train, and it was three working women, and they were talking about now they have to scramble to get their spouse to go to childcare, to pick up their child, and they face basically like a $100 fine for showing up late, and they have to pay it in cash.

It's almost like a little ransom. If you want your kid back, bring us cash in an unmarked envelope. They've got to scramble to get the other spouse to do that. It makes for some domestic problems as well, besides just who's going to get the kid, because as one woman said, I'm having a discussion with my spouse about whether I should continue working or be a stay-at-home mom. That's a big deal given this economy for a lot of families.

Brigid: Absolutely. I'm curious, the fire that we've been talking about specifically at the Newport station is not the only one. There was also track fires near Grove Street on the 8th of May. Were those fires isolated incidents, or is there some deeper infrastructure problems in these tunnels that are, pardon the pun, sparking these fires?

Larry: This is the problem, and again, it's very much analogous to the New York City subway system. PATH is a 116-year-old system. The Port Authority basically bought it in 1962 when it was a bankrupt railroad, so it already was in deferred maintenance. The Port Authority plowed some money into it, but let's remember that money that was plowed into it decades ago, that infrastructure is old again, and there is some legacy infrastructure in those tunnels. In fact, that's part of the NTSB's investigation is what's their maintenance schedule like? How often is this stuff replaced? It's a matter of playing catch-up.

The $31 million project in Hoboken replaced some of that infrastructure, but in the case of the interlocking, it's a custom-made piece of apparatus that had to be lowered in from basically a hole in the street. It's like putting together a ship in a bottle. That was what one professor described it as, that the clearances are so tight that there's no margin for error, and that's one of the problems. You're building custom infrastructure, and there are going to be some problems with it.

The Port Authority has admitted that they've had to go in and replace things called guardrails, which basically, if the train derails, it keeps it from striking the side of the tunnel. They've had to replace switch points, and they've had to deal with warping, which is basically the stone surface that the tracks sit on, not settling properly. It's like the foundation of a house. If it doesn't settle properly, the whole house is off-kilter, which is leading us to what's happening this weekend. There's a lot of infrastructure work that has to be done.

Brigid: As you were talking about, my understanding is that derailment in Hoboken last month was tied to that brand-new $31 million interlocking. Just to make sure that we all understand, without getting too into the weeds, what exactly is an interlocking? I understand that it's very intricate, but what does it do? How did a piece of equipment designed to really improve reliability end up failing so quickly?

Larry: This is one of the issues. An interlocking is basically a collection of railroad switches that allow trains coming out of the tunnel to switch into one of the four tracks at Hoboken Terminal, so there are a lot of moving parts. One of the parts that's been identified by the Port Authority as being problematic are called switch points, and it's exactly what they sound like. It's pointy pieces of track that have to engage the wheel of the train car so the train accurately switches to the proper track. If there's a defect in that point, it can cause the wheels to derail, to come off the rails, and this is what happened on July 12th.

The last car of a train entering Hoboken Terminal derailed. They're working with the manufacturer to find out why this happened. The Port Authority has said we swear on a stack of Bibles there's going to be accountability, and we'll take whatever action is necessary. For riders, what it's meant is the trains have had to crawl across that interlocking at 5 miles an hour. That's slower than you could ride a bicycle across those tracks, and it's resulted in cascading delays. Instead of trains leaving every eight minutes during rush hour, they have to leave every 10 minutes during rush hour. As one rider said, he's had to build an extra 30 minutes into both ends of his commute just to get to work on time.

Brigid: This was a brand-new piece of equipment, though.

Larry: Right, but it's a custom-made piece of equipment. When you custom make equipment, and this is true for any transit system-- When they order new trains, the MTA has had this happen a lot of times. It's a custom piece of equipment, and the term is, it has to go through some shakedown. They have to run it, operate it, and make sure that it's good to go. A lot of times, you're going to find out if it's good to go in the daily rigors of operation. The problems will show up when those hundreds and thousands of trains are clattering across the interlocking.

Brigid: If you're just joining us, this is The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, and my guest is Larry Higgs, transportation and commuting reporter for NJ.com and the Star-Ledger. We're talking about how and why this became a summer of hell for PATH commuters. We want to hear your stories and your experiences. The number is 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. You can call or text at that number. Larry, you sounded like you were about to say something.

Larry: Oh, no, it's just one of those things where, when I interviewed PATH commuters, you have basically two different approaches. You have folks who transferred to the New York City subway system, and they're used to the problems with the subway system, and they consider them equivalent, grin and bear it. You have other commuters who basically have noticed a decline in PATH service and reliability from a couple of summers ago. A state senator who represents the area has had constituents who basically said they moved to Hoboken and to Jersey City to be close to their jobs in New York, and because of the reliability problems with PATH, they've actually regretted making that move.

Brigid: Wow.

Larry: It impacts both economies because employers in New York depend on their commuters from New Jersey to get to the office when they have to be there on time. Unless you're following what happens with public transportation, it can sound a little bit to an employer like the dog ate my homework kind of excuse. The PATH was messed up, NJ Transit was messed up, the subway was messed up. How many times can you use the same excuse before the employer says, "Get out of bed earlier. I don't care how you do it. Get here on time."

Brigid: I'm going to bring in Richard from Jersey City, who is presumably a PATH rider. Richard, I think, has a point that's a little bit off the "Summer of Hell" topic that we're talking about. Richard, you're on WNYC. Go ahead.

Richard: Good morning. Can you hear me?

Brigid: Loud and clear.

Richard: Great. I've used the PATH since 1980 when I moved to Jersey City. What I was telling your screener is that they went to the great trouble of putting in an elevator at the Grove Street PATH station a few years back, and I had an occasion to use it recently. You have to stand with your finger on a button while the thing comes down from the mezzanine to the platform level.

Then once you get in the elevator, you have to stand with your finger on a button the entire time it creeps up to the mezzanine level. They know that this is that way because I've complained about it. Just the idea of not having an automatic elevator, if I had a fainting spell while in the elevator, I would just sit there until somebody else pushed the button and brought me up or down one of the levels.

Brigid: Richard, thank you for that image and that story. Larry, I think it speaks to just the overall infrastructure issues facing this system. Have you done much reporting on that piece of it?

Larry: It's interesting, and Richard has a point, because when you look at PATH alerts-- First of all, they refer to it as the vertical lift, not the elevator. The vertical lift at Grove Street is notorious, even though it's recent construction, for being out of service, and this may be one of the issues. These are the problems that people are bringing up to the Port Authority Board in person. They're saying, "Why are we seeing these continuing problems?"

Of course, PATH comes back and they basically tell us they've got a $400 million PATH Forward program, which is trying to deal with a lot of these infrastructure problems across the system, but it's a little bit like playing whack-a-mole with an older, aging, 116-year-old system. For riders like Rich, it's a little bit of cold comfort because, as you said, if you get in an elevator with a handful of groceries or maybe you've got kids in strollers and you've got to keep your finger on the button to make it work, it's a little archaic. That's something that really needs to be worked on on the procurement level. Why did you buy an elevator that has that design feature in the first place?

Brigid: Larry, we've been talking about how the Hoboken Terminal is shutting down again over Labor Day weekend, and you've also talked about how there's not a lot of alternative transit options for regular PATH riders, but what are the alternatives for people who tend to rely on that Hoboken station this weekend?

Larry: The Port Authority has thrown in a lot of resources. First of all, they have shuttle buses from Hoboken to two other PATH stations, the infamous Newport Station and the Exchange Place Station, which would allow them to get on direct PATH trains going to and from New York. They're also going to be offering additional PATH service, which is-- It's interesting because another complaint that riders have is the abysmal weekend service to and from New York that has to go via Hoboken, which allows them to do repairs on other lines.

Actually, on Saturday and Sunday, PATH is going to be operating some more direct service every 10 minutes between Journal Square and 33rd Street, which means you avoid that going to Hoboken. They're going to be operating service every 20 minutes on the Newark-World Trade Center line, and then they're going to have supplemental trains running from Journal Square and World Trade Center every 10 minutes. They have a cross-honoring with New York Waterway Ferry, where you can buy a $3 ticket, the same price as PATH fare.

To ride the ferry, you have to show your PATH fare card, or you can download a cross-honoring pass from the RidePATH app in order to do that. There's a schedule on the Port Authority website and on the RidePATH app, so really, the first thing commuters should do is download that. One thing that is not happening is you can take the 126 NJ Transit bus, which goes to the Port Authority, but that bus is not cross-honoring PATH tickets.

Brigid: Oh, wow.

Larry: If you're going to use that bus, you have to pay. The other thing that's being made available is PATH tickets will be cross-honored on NJ Transit light rail to either the Exchange Place Station or the Newport Station, and that puts you in walking distance of PATH stations. This is going to last until 5:00 in the morning on September 2nd, when they plan to have the Hoboken Terminal reopened. Naturally, we're going to be sitting there like crows on a telephone wire, waiting for the word on Monday, whether this is actually going to happen or not. There's one thing I didn't mention. Also, NJ Transit rail is going to cross-honor PATH customers at Hoboken, Secaucus, New York Penn, and Newark Penn stations.

Brigid: Some potential alternatives for you, Hoboken PATH train riders. Let's go to Jade in Jersey City. Jade, you're on WNYC.

Jade: Hi. Before I mention what I told your screener, I also want to point out that there is going to be a lot of traffic at Hoboken this weekend because of the Oasis concerts. People on Sunday and Monday, it's going to be a zoo because that's the best way of getting to the Meadowlands. It's going to be a nightmare. I am terrified of what's going to happen to me on Monday. Generally, I also want to point out that the length of the trains going from Journal Square into 34th Street have been reduced.

At least by one car, you will go down, let's say, the escalator at Journal Square, and it looks like there's no 34th Street train there. You used to be able to tell because it was a car that the train was longer. Then you get down to the platform, and it's shorter. I don't understand why, because the trains, especially from Journal Square, are much more crowded because of all the building that has been going on. Even if people are working remotely during the week, those people are going to New York on the weekends. It is packed, parked, every train. Sometimes it's hard to actually get on the train. You're pushing to get on the train like it was Tokyo.

Brigid: Jade, you have given us very colorful descriptions of the summer of hell that you're experiencing. Also, some people may be giving us their bucket list item for the end of the show with that Oasis concert later. Larry, I'd love to get your reaction to some of what Jade raised there in terms of the shortening of the trains and the overcrowding that she is anticipating because of what will be happening at the Meadowlands this weekend.

Larry: Actually, Jade is very correct. There was a woman who showed up at the last Port Authority board meeting, and she was the one who eloquently described riding the PATH as something out of the Hunger Games. She described the exact same conditions of trains that are too crowded. They arrive in certain stations already overcrowded. If you want to get on board, you have to push yourself on board. She also expressed concerns about crowding on station platforms.

This is something that harkens back to 2019, when PATH had record ridership levels and they also had record crowding, and a lot of commuters were afraid that they would be pushed onto the tracks. That's exactly what this woman articulated last month to the Port Authority. Part of the problem is the PATH has cars that they are now sending out to be rebuilt. They were originally built in 2009. They're at their midyear point, so they have to be rebuilt.

Those cars are physically being taken out of service, trucked off the property, being rebuilt, and trucked back to the property. That's going to that's going to lead to some of the short trains that she was talking about. If you're going to Oasis from New York, I would suggest you take an NJ Transit train to Secaucus and switch to the Meadowlands line. That would probably be a lot easier because you're going to have no Hoboken access, and that's going to be problematic. At least that gives you a direct straight shot.

Brigid: Larry--

Larry: The other-- Oh, go ahead.

Brigid: I want to just get in quickly. We've talked about some of the short-term solutions, some ways to deal with the disruptions this weekend, some ways to get to that concert. I'm curious, what are some of the longer-term fixes that state and local officials are demanding from the Port Authority? How realistic is it to think about New Jersey Transit taking over the PATH altogether? Are the governors going to get involved? What are your thoughts on some of the longer-term solutions?

Larry: It's interesting because we did ask the governor's office, and they said that they are monitoring the situation. Really, the governors have the power over the Port Authority. That's both Murphy and Hochul. They appoint the Port Authority board. Those board members serve at their pleasure. New Jersey appoints the board chairman. New York appoints the executive director. There's a lot of power there. For New York, the power is basically that they rely on New Jersey commuters to inform the employment base that makes Manhattan go. The largest, most productive regional economy, 20% of the gross domestic product. You want to make sure those people get to work.

There have been some candidates for office in New Jersey who have suggested that the governor needs to really lean on the Port Authority, lean on those board members, and perhaps potentially veto some Port Authority board minutes to say you need to deal with this or else you don't get my approval. As far as the bigger picture, Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop was the one who suggested taking over the PATH as part of his plank when he was running for governor. That was part of his transportation plan.

There are some people would say the Port Authority would probably love to get rid of the PATH because it is a money-losing operation. The rest of the Port Authority's operations, airports, bridge, and tunnels, the ports are all money-making operations. It cuts to the idea that public transit is a public good, and it doesn't matter whether it makes money or loses money. It's not there to make money or lose money. It's there to transport people. It would be a tremendous fiscal lift for NJ Transit, which has its own fiscal problems, to add the hundreds of millions of dollars that it takes to run the PATH system.

Then they would also have to pick up a proportional part of the Port Authority's PATH debt for all those projects. It's something that would require a tremendous infusion of cash, and that cash is not right there. We know about the problems with the state budget. NJ Transit avoided a fiscal cliff because of the corporate transit fee, but that gets renewed in five years, and there's a question whether there will be the political will in Trenton, depending on who becomes governor, to renew that corporate transit fee.

Brigid: Larry, we know you will be covering all of that. My guest has been Larry Higgs, transportation and commuting reporter for NJ.com and the Star-Ledger. Larry, thanks for being here, and good luck with that PATH train.

Larry: Thank you. Pleasure.

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