Title: Oscar Docs: ’Black Box Diaries'

[MUSIC]

David Furst: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning. I'm David Furst, WNYC's Weekend Edition host, filling in for Brian today. Every year in Oscar season, as most of the media focus on the competition for best picture and best actors, The Brian Lehrer Show invites the makers of the five nominees for best feature length documentary on to talk about their films. We'll kick off the series with one of those interviews right now and then I'll be back to finish up today's show. Here's Brian Lehrer with the director of the film Black Box Diaries recorded last week.

Brian Lehrer: This is the intensely personal and yet very public autobiographical story of journalist Shiori Itō, who who became the face of the #metoo movement in Japan after she went public in 2017 with an accusation of rape against a prominent male journalist there, Noriyuki Yamaguchi, who was close with the Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. The film, Black Box Diaries, is based on the book that Itō wrote about her ordeal and eventual legal victory called Black Box. The legal victory, like with E. Jean Carroll and Donald Trump, for example, was not a criminal conviction, but a civil suit with a damages award. Likeness to Trump, Mr. Yamaguchi continues to deny he did anything wrong.

As you might imagine, Shiori Itō suffered all kinds of public shaming and social media abuse in the process. The film even opens with a trigger warning for people who have suffered sexual abuse themselves and might find certain scenes hard to watch. Take that trigger warning as a warning even for this segment. Much of her interaction with people in Black Box Diaries is in Japanese, but the actual video diary entries are in English. Here's a clip from the opening one before we bring Ms. Itō on, in which she is bracing herself for the big changes that will likely come for herself and others as she plans to hold a news conference to state her accusation.

Shiori Itō: This could be a big change in my life and some others or many others. I not sure I'm scared and I'm not sure if I could be responsible for that, but all I want to do is talk about the truth.

Brian Lehrer: That from the opening minute of Black Box Diaries. Shiori Itō joins us now. Congratulations on your Oscar nomination and thank you for coming on with us. Welcome to WNYC.

Shiori Itō: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Would you begin for a US audience by saying more about that opening diary entry? As an accuser in a rape case, you had a right under Japanese law to remain anonymous. Why did you decide to go public knowing the doubt and even the hate that you would bring upon yourself.

Shiori Itō: Yes. Well, I recorded this video about 10 days before when I was about to go public. For me, it was the time I was asking this question, was there any possible cover up for the case? The arrest warrant was suddenly disappeared and arrest was stopped and so on. I was scared and I thought if I go public maybe I can protect myself and also ask other journalists to ask this question to the people who I didn't have the answer from. So I did that. Of course, as a journalist, I also covered sexual violence cases before and I knew what kind of backlash I would get, especially if I'm speaking up against the power. It was harder than I thought to get that on a personal level, of course.

Brian Lehrer: Also, near the start of the film, you have an interview clip with, I guess it's a taxi driver who didn't read the situation accurately, even though there were clues. Even more than that, he admits that he deferred to your alleged abuser's request of where to drop you off and to drop you off together, even though you asked multiple times to be let off separately and you seemed uncomfortable and you didn't want to get out of the car, which he acknowledges when you reach the destination that Yamaguchi wanted. Is that opening scene, besides being powerful evidence, kind of an allegory for how society gives men the benefit of the doubt in questionable interactions with women?

Shiori Itō: Well, that's interesting way of looking at it because for me, actually I had no memory around that time and I was just so happy that someone was witnessing that I didn't want to go there. You're right, there were moment that I could maybe get out from this situation, and not just a taxi driver, other people who passed by me, they were possible active bystanders and that didn't happen. For me, this piece of CCTV is the proof of what happened. Because often these sexual violence cases happens behind the closed door and it's really hard to prove.

Brian Lehrer: How much do you think that benefit of the doubt for men is why criminal rape charges were never brought? Criminal rape charges. How much, because Yamaguchi had high-level connections, or was there just not enough evidence for the criminal case standard? I see the title, Black Box, refers to how authorities describe to you why your case would be hard to prove in court.

Shiori Itō: Well, the black box, the word, the term came from police and prosecutors. They were saying, "You know what, these cases happens behind a closed door. It's in black box. We don't know anything about it. You guys only know about it. What can we do?" It was really even hard to report a case to police to start with. I realized that behind how hard it is to report a case, there was 110-year-old rape law in Japan. Think about it, it was the time when women didn't even have a voting rights. It was based on that and it was that rape wasn't even defined based on consent. It's difficult to report to start with. Then I realized that court issued arrest warrant and the top of the police stopped it.

For me, that was the black box that I want to ask the question about. "Can it happen a lot? If so, how many other cases out there?" Not just sexual violence cases, but these possible arrest warrant denied, or maybe it could be other way around. I got scared. It was whole way of lesson learned about our legal system, but also the power of corruption.

Brian Lehrer: For people who haven't seen the film, and I want to say to our audience after having seen the film, it's incredibly powerful and compelling. I often say in these segments, to be nominated for an Oscar, a documentary can't just tell an important story for the world. It has to be a great movie, and yours absolutely is. Could you talk about the structure of it a little bit? I mentioned in the intro that even while much of your interaction with people there is necessarily in Japanese, the video diary entries themselves are in English. Did you record those diary entries at the time throughout your public process? Is that how to understand these clips and their role in your life?

Shiori Itō: Most of the time I had this amazing friend who actually helped me to escape from Japan when I went public. When I would start receiving all the threats and troll and I couldn't work anymore, I got this journalist who just reached out to me because she had Japanese friend saying, "Why don't you move to London?" Hanna, who's a producer for this film, decided to come back to Japan and witness with me what was happening. We never made a film together and never made a feature lens film. She wasn't trained professional camera person, so we kind of laugh about her camera skill. [laughs]

When we went into editing room, we saw how shaky, how unstable, how unfocused sometimes, but then it was real. Because of Hanna was behind the camera, I was speaking to her in English, so that's why I speak a lot in English, but then you're right, there were moments that I was just speaking to myself, to the camera. In my diary, to written diary, I was doing it in English even though that's not my mother tongue. When I realized that, I think it was the proof of how I don't have words to say direct way and describe what happened to me and how I'm feeling in Japanese.

To just give you an example, when I woke up the early morning when this guy was assaulting me, who was on top of me, I was telling him, "Please stop. Yamete kudasai." Because growing up in Japan, as a Japanese woman, I was always taught to be polite to others, to older person, to men. We are very limited what we can say. I just switched my mind to cursed him off in English. I realized that as a Japanese woman, I didn't even have a language to stop something. To say no, to tell what I really want, what I don't want. I think that is one of the reason why, for me, it was much easier to deal with it in English.

Brian Lehrer: You mean English has more powerful words for a woman trying to ask a man to stop raping her than the Japanese language does?

Shiori Itō: We have saying, "No, no" means "Yes, and I like it." [Japanese 00:11:31]  In Japanese, it's so indirect. If I want to say "Stop" in Japanese, I have to say "Please stop" if I'm a woman. Men can say that. I don't know how to describe it, but I have to be really tough, hard, deep low voice, talking like man. Otherwise, I can say how men can say to stop. I don't know if that's making sense to you.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, it is. I think our listeners get it, especially the women listeners will totally get it. I want to play for our listeners another clip from one of the diary entries. This is after you make your public accusation and the social media and other backlash begins. This is the clip where you're reading an email, I guess, from a woman who says she is ashamed to be part of the same gender as you.

Shiori Itō: "I was thinking for a while, but now you're publishing books, so I really want to tell you that I was so ashamed that we are same gender. Do you think you had nothing done wrong? I have been raised very strictly that I can avoid these things. Even though whatever you're saying is the truth, I feel so bad for the man you're accusing. Shame on you."

Brian Lehrer: That's Shiori Itō. If you're just joining us in one of the video diaries in her first person documentary called Black Box Diaries, now nominated for an Oscar, is that clip, Shiori, with that hostile note to you, an example of how even women in Japan were divided and how they perceived you in your case?

Shiori Itō: Yes, I still remember the moment. That was the first email I got right after I published my book. That was the time when the #metoo movement started happening back here in the US. It's just that this feeling that there is solidarity around the world and this is what I get. It was quite shocking. I wrote back to her because I do want to understand where you are standing, because she was clearly saying that if this was true, if the sexual aggregation was truth, I shouldn't talk about it and she feels bad to the man. I want to know why. I never got reply from her, but I just-- I can only assume. Maybe she has similar pain who has to survive in Japanese society. I don't know, but that's my guess.

Brian Lehrer: You did also get a lot of support as you also document in the film. Can you talk a little bit about that and the role it played for you personally or for society since your case was such a public news story?

Shiori Itō: Yes, I got-- my best support was from my best friend and friends and also the camera person, Hanna, the producer of this film. Even my family weren't supporting me. They were scared for me, which I understand. This support was really crucial for me to go on. I think because I was making this film, I could get through this. Because if I was dealing with this alone, I don't think I could have done this. I think, in a way, me also have background as journalist helped me to ask this question. Because when I know this is my case, it happened to me, it was always constant reminder, it was difficult, but because of that, it was easier, and because I had the support, I could have done it.

Brian Lehrer: I gather that your case and the publicity surrounding it have led to some legal reforms in Japan. Can you describe what you believe you have helped to change and what other reforms you think are still necessary?

Shiori Itō: Yes. Of course, I don't want to take credit for that. There were so many other people who spoke against it. Look, it was again 110-year-old rape law. Finally, the biggest change happened in 2017 after a month I spoke in public. The first biggest change was that finally male victim can report the rape case. It was only for women who can report the case, who can claim the rape before. That was changed. In 2023, finally age of consent was updated from 13 years old to 16.

Brian Lehrer: 13?

Shiori Itō: I know. What did you know about consent when you were 13?

Brian Lehrer: Me? Nothing.

Shiori Itō: Right. No, Japan-- Me nothing too. We don't have sex education to start with. Actually in the teacher's guidance, it says, "Please teach kids after when sperm and egg meet." [chuckles] It says that I don't talk about sex, don't talk about consent. Yes, of course, 13 years old didn't-- I didn't know anything about it but that's a progress. Again, if we don't have the education, it won't change much. That's I think we have to change more.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think the United States is ahead of Japan in the legal sense? Have you compared the two countries?

Shiori Itō: Yes. Well, New York at least, the definition of rape is based on consent. That's a big difference. In Japan, survivors have to prove he or she has been threatened enough or violated. That's the definition, and that's really difficult to prove.

Brian Lehrer: Shiori Itō with us for another few minutes. The filmmaker of the Oscar-nominated feature length documentary, Black Box Diaries, which is autobiographical as well as the story that has a public purpose. She is making this film both about what happened to her and as a journalist. May I ask, how do you feel seeing Donald Trump elected president again here after a jury found him liable for sexual abuse of E. Jean Carroll. Like the civil suit wound up in a liable verdict in your case, but that was not disqualifying for Trump to a majority of voters.

Shiori Itō: It's what I wanted to tell through this film, we forget about deep dive to shed the light on sexual violence. With the power of corruption, and when the sexual violence case comes with power of corruption, we are still not talking about it enough. We are not still-- It's still hard. Even many media cases has been revealed and talked about when it comes with power. What's going on? For mw, it was so shocking. Actually that says it's not just happening in Japan. It's so universal and it's so sad to know that we are not there yet to really understand what sexual violence is. It's about overpowering someone.

Brian Lehrer: You've had to keep immersing yourself in this trauma in your life in order to write your book and now to make the film and even to come on the show today. Did you hesitate at any point to continue with the process because of that?

Shiori Itō: I have no regret. I will do it again if I have to. Of course, personal level, I even questioned myself, "Is it okay to direct this film from my point of view?" There were so many moments that I felt like I had to cross the line as a journalist. It's one-sided storytelling, . For me, it was important to make this film through survival point of view. I wanted to see that and also I want to encourage others that we all have a power to tell our story with our own language, with our voice. It was healing in the end, so I'm very happy I've done it.

Brian Lehrer: Last question. Do you think if you win the best feature length documentary Oscar, the publicity will help the movement for justice for sexual assault victims in Japan or around the world in some way?

Shiori Itō: I believe so. Even we don't win, I believe this film is the starting point, again, also opening up the conversation. Just so you know, we've been able to screen and distribute over 57 countries around the world, but not yet in Japan. Even we got nominated, it's not happening. I just.--

Brian Lehrer: Why not? Who makes that decision?

Shiori Itō: Good question. I don't know. I don't know. That says a lot. When the sexual violence case comes with the power of corruption, it's still hard. I really hope that's my next mission. "How do I bring this to the audience in Japan?" Because we need to talk about it, and that's why I made this film. I just wished this film would reach more audience in Japan and around the world.

Brian Lehrer: Shiori Itō, one of the five filmmakers nominated for a best feature length documentary Oscar, as we are doing our series again this year, inviting all five documentarian nominees. Her film is called Black Box Diaries. Shiori, as I say to all the filmmakers, good luck at the Oscars and thank you for sharing your story with us.

Shiori Itō: Thank you. Arigato.

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