[music]

Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good Friday morning, everyone. For today's show, we will re-air most of the Democratic Mayoral Primary debate that I co-moderated last night with Errol Louis from New York 1 and Katie Honan from the news organization in the City. Then, near the end of the show, we'll open up the phones for you to name something that you learned in the debate, or if it changed your mind on anything. Our political reporters Bridid Bergin and Elizabeth Kim will share some analysis. The seven candidates were lined up on the stage in alphabetical order from left to right on your radio dial.

They were City Council Speaker Adrienne Adams, former Governor Andrew Cuomo, current Comptroller Brad Lander, State Assembly Member Zohran Mamdani, State Senator Zellnor Myrie, former Comptroller Scott Stringer, and former hedge fund manager and Teach For America founder, Whitney Tilson. We'll dive right in now with the first section of the debate that followed their opening statements. The first topic was dealing with President Trump as mayor of New York, given what's happening in Los Angeles and on other issues. Then came a crucial section about resumes and experience, pros and cons.

One thing to listen for in this Trump section. Brad Lander has always been considered a major progressive candidate in this field. He's ranked number two by the Working Families Party, right behind Zohran Mamdani, but he's been running a distant third in the polls. Last night, to my eye, he worked very hard to break out for the viewers and listeners, more than he did in last week's debate. He speaks third in this Trump section, and you'll hear how he tries to take it to Andrew Cuomo on a related issue. Then you'll hear the Experience and Resume section of the debate moderated by Errol, where Cuomo and Mamdani really compete with each other.

That was the headline section of the debate, in my opinion. We'll go chronologically. Here's that dealing with Trump section of the debate. It runs 12 minutes. The first voice will be me asking the question.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Cuomo, many New Yorkers are concerned about what's happening in Los Angeles. Workplace immigration raids and deportations, protests with some violence, the president's deployment of the National Guard, and the Marines over the objection of the governor and the mayor. The Trump aide, Stephen Miller said the mayor has no say. If you were the mayor of New York right now, how would you handle this situation if something like that happened here?

Andrew Cuomo: Yes, we had this situation before. This is not a case of first impression. President Trump did this in Trump 1. He did it a number of times. He sent troops into cities all across the country. This is him being macho authoritarian. He's the commander in chief. He never sent them into New York because I said to him, "You better never send troops into New York. We don't need them. It would be a hostile act. It would be a problem." Right now in this situation, we're going to protect our immigrants. This is a sanctuary city, and we are going to defend the laws of the sanctuary city. We have an NYPD that is the largest police force in the United States of America. Donald Trump only picks fights that he can win. He cannot win a fight with me as mayor of New York.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Mamdani, any contrast so far?

Zohran Mamdani: What is so troubling to see right now is, we also have the NYPD assisting ICE in some of those very missions right here in New York City. We saw the Strategic Response Group arrest a pastor who was peacefully observing the arrest of a migrant at Federal Plaza. When I am the mayor, the NYPD will serve the public safety of New Yorkers. They will not assist Trump's ICE agents. Furthermore, though Donald Trump may not believe in the law, we have to be clear that we do and we will, in fact, bring back our law department to its pre-pandemic staffing levels.

200 additional lawyers and start to provide lawyers for immigrants who are in deportation cases, because we know that by doing so, we in fact increase their likelihood of coming home to their families in New York City by 11 times. Finally, we can see examples in previous mayoral administrations where the mayor's team, like Steve Banks and the last administration, took every single step they could to ensure that none of the personal information the city had would be turned over to the Trump Administration. I would follow that example through all of our agencies.

[applause]

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Ms. Adams, staying on this stage topic, but with a follow-up. If the president sees what he thinks is disorder in the streets and believes that local and state law enforcement officials are not doing a good job at protecting citizens and property, why shouldn't he step in? His supporters say that's his responsibility.

Adrienne Adams: We are right now dealing with a lawless president enacting lawless behavior across this entire nation. As one who continues to speak up and out against Donald Trump. Currently, Donald Trump would like to bring ICE back onto Rikers Island, which has been illegal since the year 2014, through an executive order put forth by the deputy mayor of the city of New York. Not the mayor of the city of New York, which is unprecedented. They want to bring ICE back onto Rikers Island. The person that is endorsing me is the baddest AG in the nation. Her name is Tish James.

She said, "Adrienne, if Donald Trump starts to get in your way, sue him." I am suing him. I am suing the mayoral administration and Donald Trump's ICE. We will continue to protect immigrants when I am mayor, just like I am protecting them as the leader of the City Council. We will make sure that Donald Trump's ICE obeys the law. We are a sanctuary city. I am here to protect that in the City Council. When I am mayor, I will continue to protect our laws and our immigrants.

[applause]

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, continuing on the same track. If the president says the mayor has no say, which seems to be the case because he did deploy the Marines and the National Guard, what would you do? What could you do?

Brad Lander: Let me tell you about how the mayor could have a say. Last Thursday and again this morning, I went down to the federal building to observe immigration court and then accompany immigrants and out past ICE agents so they could get out of the federal building and back to their families. One was a couple with kids in our city school system. They were worried they weren't going to see them again. I stand up to bullies that don't back down from a fight, and I will make clear that we're going to protect the 40% of New Yorkers who are immigrants, and we're going to keep them safe, and we're going to keep New York City safe.

You can de-escalate conflict. What Trump wants is to strike fear and escalate conflict. We're going to make clear we stand up for immigrant New Yorkers, and we deescalate and keep the peace. I do want to tell you, though, about some immigrant New Yorkers that Andrew Cuomo screwed when he was governor, and we were defending in my office. A couple of hundred immigrant subway cleaners who he made clean the subway cars, but cheated them out of the prevailing wages and healthcare that they were due. We're fighting right now to get it back. I stand up to bullies, and I'll stand up to Donald Trump.

[applause]

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Cuomo, you were named. We may not be able to do this every time, all night, but you were named, so you get a brief response.

Andrew Cuomo: Yes. I don't know what Mr. Lander is talking about. The MTA contracted for cleaning services. I assume that's what he's talking about. The MTA goes through a rigorous contracting process. They should never have hired illegal immigrants if it is true. Obviously, I had nothing to do with them hiring [crosstalk]

Brad Lander: I'm sorry, is that what you said? What did you call them?

Andrew Cuomo: If anyone was undocumented, or they didn't pay the proper wages. I had nothing to do with it. It would have been done [crosstalk]

Brad Lander: You didn't pay them the proper wages. You cheated them out of the prevailing wages they were due and the health care they were.

[laughter]

Andrew Cuomo: No. I didn't contract with them at all.

[applause]

Andrew Cuomo: The MTA contracted with them.

Brad Lander: Who appoints the Chair of the MTA?

Andrew Cuomo: Oh, I see, so every contract that the MTA contracts, you want me to be held responsible?

Brad Lander: This one, yes. [crosstalk] A couple of hundred immigrant workers got cheated out of $2.5 million and their health care. The orders came from on high.

Andrew Cuomo: Yes, so you say. If they did it, that would obviously be wrong. The MTA contracts were $6 billion per year. They have multiple contracts. We have a Comptroller on the State of New York who audits the books. I'm sure he's almost as good as you. If that happened, he would have found out.

Brad Lander: Thankfully, these are prevailing wage workers under city contracts.

Brian Lehrer: Moving on. [crosstalk] Still on President Trump. Mr. Stringer, you can reply to that if you want, but my moving on question is his administration has made deep cuts to some programs that directly fund services for New Yorkers. A listener to my radio show asks, how do you propose addressing funding shortfalls for critical services, or which programs will you prioritize above others? Assuming you can't make for all the funding gaps. Please tell everybody how you think your approach would be better than the other candidates.

Scott Stringer: Sure, Brian. Look, I was in Trump 1 when I was a city comptroller. During that time period, I didn't let him get this city down. During my time, I managed to divest $4 billion from fossil fuels controller. I divested from gun manufacturers. I divested from private prisons. I put the line in the sand with that guy, and I will do the same as mayor. Look, when you grow up in Washington Heights, everything comes your way. You understand the only way to deal with a bully, is to draw the line early and fight back. Here's specifically what I'm going to do.

First, as mayor, we're going to establish a very, very rainy day fund. We need to get $500 million from the state and $500 million from the city so that to replenish the money that Donald Trump is taking from us. $80 million was taken in the dead of night. We need to keep the social safety net alive until Hakeem Jeffries becomes the Speaker and we can dismantle the Trump Organization. Just one, two seconds, just to straighten out the two of them. I was the one who brought the prevailing case with the MTA on those workers. I believe very strongly then that we have to make sure that we pay wages so people can live and stay in New York. That's why I did it.

[applause]

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Myrie, same question about dealing with the defunding of the city.

Zellnor Myrie: Yes. First, let me put my lawyer hat on for a second. What Donald Trump is doing right now is flat out unconstitutional. We got to say that very clearly because they are counting on the chaos being normal. They're counting on us being relaxed about this approach because we see it in the headlines every day. It is flat out unconstitutional. We should not, as a city, hesitate whatsoever to bring it to him when he's coming after our folks in this city. Look, I want to hire 50 more lawyers to our law department so we can go on the offensive.

The best way for us to be independent of the Trump cuts is to expand our tax base. That is why I want to deliver a million homes over the next 10 years. It's why I want to extend Pre-K and 3-K to 6:00 PM. It is why I want universal after school for everyone. This has to be a city where you can raise a family, where people can make the choice to stay here when they can spend their money in our local economy. We can create $18 billion over the next 10 years if we create 1 million homes over the next decade. That is what I plan to do. I plan to go on offense every single time this bully comes after my city.

[cheering]

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Tilson, you'll get the last word on this. People are talking about standing up to President Trump. Can it ever be smart, in your opinion, to hold your tongue about your worst opinions of him so that New York could possibly get better treatment, or would that not be effective?

Whitney Tilson: Yes, possibly. There's a grim anniversary coming up on Tuesday. It is the 10-year anniversary of Trump coming down that escalator spewing hatred and xenophobia. I have been fighting him tooth and nail every day of those 10 years. That said, he is a childish bully and getting into a Twitter war with him needlessly would hurt our city, I think. He tweets a lot of crazy stuff and most of the time, if you simply ignore it, he moves on to his next childish foolishness. To your question, I will fight Donald Trump as mayor, stand up to him, sue him if necessary.

My job is to serve the people of New York. That sometimes involves not provoking a childish person, but one who unfortunately holds a lot of power. 10% of our city budget is federal funding.

Brian Lehrer: Candidates, thank you for this first round.

Errol Louis: Okay, candidates, some of you have many years of government experience, while others have spent less than a decade in office. One of you has never been elected to any office. Then, if we consider age, one of you would be, if elected, the oldest person ever to be sworn in as mayor, while another would be the youngest mayor to take office in more than 100 years. Let me start with you, Mr. Mamdani. What do you say to critics who think that a 33-year-old assemblyman who's only been in office four years needs more experience before becoming mayor of the largest city in the country?

Zohran Mamdani: What I would ask is for them to judge me by the campaign that I am running. A campaign we began with about two full time employees polling at 1%. That has now grown to be one where we manage over 36,000 volunteers that have knocked on nearly 1 million doors. Ultimately, what I will deliver to New York City is what I've been delivering in this race, innovation and competence. I will do so by hiring the best and the brightest. For too long we've had an understanding of leadership where you simply want to replicate each one of your ideas and hire the people who will be quickest to say yes to whatever you say to them.

I will instead hire the people who have the track records, the excellence, the fluency. It has been a pleasure to meet with incredible officials like Maria Torres-Springer, Patrick Gaspard, like Steve Banks, like Amit Baga, so many who have delivered that public service and that public excellence in this city. That is what I would be doing as the next mayor of this city of New York.

[applause]

Errol Louis: Mr. Myrie, similar question. What would you say to New Yorkers' concern that your legislative record, however lengthy, is not the same as running an organization of 300,000 employees?

Zellnor Myrie: Listen, I think New Yorkers want a mayor that is going to deliver results for them and to do it when it is difficult to achieve. I've passed over 60 bills that have become the law. When I ran for State Senate back in 2018, Albany was dysfunctional. Some rogue Democrats propped up by Andrew Cuomo prevented so many legislation that would help everyday New Yorkers, whether it was protection for tenants, whether it was reproductive health, whether it was climate legislation, whether it was your right to be safe in your neighborhood.

On day one in the state Senate, I passed something called early voting, which all of us are going to participate in on this Saturday. I am about the results and about the work. I have built coalition. I have listened to stakeholders. I've done really difficult things. That is the job of the mayor to get everyone at the table and to achieve something that people said was impossible. I've been in the business of delivering for the people of my district. I look forward to doing the same thing for the people of New York City.

[applause]

Errol Louis: Okay. Mr. Cuomo, if elected, you would be the oldest person ever sworn in as mayor. If you served two full terms, you'd be 76 years old upon leaving office. Is somebody in their 70s the ideal age for holding the second hardest job in America?

Andrew Cuomo: Let's do one term at a time if we can. I think you raise a very important point. Experience matters, and I think inexperience is dangerous in this case. Mr. Mamdani has had a staff of five people. You're now going to run a staff of 300,000 employees. He's never dealt with the city Council. He's never dealt with the Congress. He's never dealt with the state legislature. He's never negotiated with the union. He's never built anything. He's never dealt with a natural emergency. He's never dealt with a hurricane, with a flood, et cetera.

He's never done any of the essentials. Now you have Donald Trump on top of all of that, and he's never dealt with, what I think is, the greatest national threat that we face in this President. To put a person in this seat at this time with no experience is reckless and dangerous. To Mr. Lander and his experience, remember, this was the fiscal watchdog under the Eric Adams Administration, which was like the bookkeeper at Tammany Hall.

[applause]

Errol Louis: Mr. Mamdani.

Zohran Mamdani: To Mr. Cuomo. I have never had to resign in disgrace.

[cheering]

Zohran Mamdani: I have never cut Medicaid.

[cheering]

Zohran Mamdani: I have never stolen hundreds of millions of dollars from the MTA. I have never hounded the 13 women who credibly accused me of sexual harassment. I have never sued for their gynecological records, and I have never done those things because I am not you, Mr. Cuomo. Furthermore, the name is Mamdani. M-A-M-D-A-N-I.

[cheering]

Zohran Mamdani: You should learn how to say it, because we got to get it right.

[applause]

Andrew Cuomo: Yes. May I respond?

Brad Lander: [crosstalk] my response, or is this my 60 seconds on the question?

Brian Lehrer: Let Mr. Landers speak, and then you can respond to both.

Brad Lander: Just to be clear, is this my response to Andrew or is this my 60 seconds?

Brian Lehrer: This is your response, if you choose.

Brad Lander: Thank you. I've gotten so many Eric Adams contracts canceled, we can't keep track. He tried to put a $432 million no-bid crony contract, and we audited it and we got it canceled. We have done it time and time again. Andrew knows a lot about corruption. That's part of the experience he had. He created a corruption commission and then killed it as soon as it got too close to him. His senior aides had to resign in corruption disgrace. Let's be clear, he has experience, but leadership is not inviting 25-year-old young women into your office, as he admitted he did, and then asking them about their intimate life and whether they would date older men. I lead by building the best teams, not through sexual harassment, corruption, and disgrace.

[cheering]

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Cuomo.

Andrew Cuomo: Mr. Mandami's right. He's never done anything period.

Zohran Mamdani: Mr. Mamdani.

Andrew Cuomo: This is a man who passed--

Zohran Mamdani: Mamdani. You say the name right? Mamdani.

Andrew Cuomo: This is a man who has done nothing. He's accomplished nothing. Three bills are all he passed. He has the worst attendance record in the New York State Assembly. He has never held a real job. He has zero accomplishments.

Zohran Mamdani: I want to be very clear.

Andrew Cuomo: Now he thinks he's going to be ready to be mayor of the City of New York. It is laughable. It is laughable and it is dangerous.

[applause]

Zohran Mamdani: May I? I want--

Brian Lehrer: Really quick and then we're going to move on.

Zohran Mamdani: Look out into the crowd and look at Richard Chow, who lost his brother to suicide because of the taxi driver debt crisis. I went with Mr. Chow over many, many months, organizing to push this very city to finally reckon with its complicity in that. We won $450 million in debt relief. I want you to look at him and tell him that that's nothing.

Brian Lehrer: Okay, let's--

[applause]

Andrew Cuomo: You passed three bills.

Brian Lehrer: Let's move to Mr. Stringer.

[applause]

Andrew Cuomo: Yes.

Scott Stringer: Can I just cut right to chase and tell what's really going on here? Truth be told, experience matters. Andrew Cuomo has experience. I know that. He does. Vision matters. Mamdani-- I said it right, right? Mamdani.

Zohran Mamdani: Almost there.

Scott Stringer: Okay. I'm getting there.

Zohran Mamdani: Almost there.

Scott Stringer: You have the vision, and you have articulated it during the campaign.

[applause]

Scott Stringer: The problem is we need somebody who can do both. My experience and my vision, when you combine it, is the third lane to win this race. That's what we have to do.

[cheering]

Andrew Cuomo: Very good. Very good.

Scott Stringer: We cannot have a mayor on training wheels. We also have to have a mayor who's willing to go to town hall meetings to meet with the voters where they are, and that hasn't happened with the experienced candidate. The one last thing. Every job I've had as State Legislator, I introduced rules for form in the assembly and got it passed. As Manhattan Borough president, I actually built affordable housing. I didn't do one or two rezonings. I did that as my life's work and made a difference. As comptroller, I built the best comptroller's office that Brad Lander takes credit for, and I'm proud of that.

[laughter]

Errol Louis: Okay, fair enough. I want to bring Ms. Adams into the conversation. Ms. Adams, your private sector experience involved finding and training corporate leaders. Government, however, involves working with people who are independently elected, maybe politically connected, who cannot be bypassed, cannot be fired. How do you avoid falling into the trap of catering to vested interests at the expense, possibly, of the public interest?

Adrienne Adams: Well, in the words of Scott Stringer, let's just cut to the chase. As the only candidate currently doing this work that everyone is aspiring to do as co-leader in city government, in City Hall, already. As one that has walked up those steps of City Hall for almost 10 years. As the one that is leading one of the largest legislative bodies in the entire country. As one that has seen 120,000 units of affordable housing coming up in the city. As one who has championed the largest victory for affordable housing in a generation. As one that is already doing this work. As one that has taken private skills from the private sector in management.

I have trained people that will make more money than I will ever make in a lifetime. Bringing those skills with me into the public sector, into the New York City Council, now leading a body of 50 council members, as the one with the experience ready to go to work tomorrow. Where I work is where everyone else on this stage aspires to work. In City Hall, in Adrienne Adams, New York.

[cheering]

Errol Louis: Okay. I have a question for you, Mr. Tilson. Related to this discussion, you have frequently said on the campaign trail that, "Career politicians have caused many of the city's problems or made them worse." You said tonight, in fact, that this is no time for amateur hour. Explain why a lack of experience running a city agency would make you a better manager than some of your rivals here.

Whitney Tilson: I actually view not being a politician as a feature, not a bug. It is possible to hire people into administration, of course, who have the experience of running a big bureaucracy. I would point to Mike Bloomberg as my inspiration. When I decided to run for mayor, he had never held elected office before. I think he was one of our greatest mayors. He steered us through the global financial crisis. I believe that having someone like him, who I saw was independent of all the special interests, who in a low turnout off season primary, like what we're having right now, only 5% of New Yorkers of our total population is probably going to be enough to win the Primary.

Effectively, and certainly, last time was enough to win the Mayorality. I think we need a mayor who is independent of that inherently corrupting system, who doesn't need the job, who isn't angling for higher office, and who brings a business background, which I think is more relevant to managing one of the world's largest bureaucracies.

[applause]

Errol Louis: Okay, thank you, candidates.

Brian Lehrer: All right. There we go, folks. We are re-airing most of the Democratic Mayoral Primary debate from last night. We held it at the John Jay College of Criminal justice on West 59th Street. The audience you've been hearing consisted of invited guests by the sponsors and by each candidate. We'll continue in a minute.

 

 

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