Title: NY & NJ Work Requirements for SNAP Benefits

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Amina Srna: It's The Brian Lehrer Show. I'm producer Amina Srna, filling in for Brian today. There are some pretty big changes underway for participants in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP. That's what used to be called food stamps. As part of the so-called One Big Beautiful Bill Act, funding is cut, and there are new work requirements. If you are currently receiving SNAP benefits, you've probably had to do some paperwork to make sure you can keep your eligibility. We'll start seeing the effects and finding out how many people were unable to qualify as the three-month implementation period ends tomorrow, May 1st, in New Jersey, with New York's following in a month on June 1st.

Joining me now with more information on what's changing and how people can avoid being dropped is my colleague, Karen Yi, who reports on homelessness and poverty here at WNYC and Gothamist. Hey, Karen.

Karen Yi: Hey, Amina.

Amina Srna: Let's start with how many people are currently receiving SNAP benefits in the two states or in the metro area, if you have that.

Karen Yi: Yes. In New York State, there's about 3 million recipients. In the city specifically, there's 1.8 million recipients, and that's about one in five New Yorkers. In New Jersey, it's about 850,000 SNAP recipients, and that's about one in eight residents. I'll also say that when we think about SNAP, there's a lot of kids that rely on SNAP. At least here in the city, it's almost half a million children that rely on SNAP, a lot of people also who are seniors and have a disability.

Amina Srna: This is a federal program, but states run it. Should recipients have been hearing from their local service agencies if their benefits are at risk?

Karen Yi: Yes. The HR 1 that implemented this series of new work requirements that everyone is rushing to figure out what it means and who is eligible, that happened last summer. There's been a lot of back and forth as to when it would be implemented, but after we figured out a date, the New York State and New Jersey and their local service districts, for us it's New York City, and then in New Jersey, it's your local county, they've been rushing to try and figure out A, who has to meet these rules, and then letting them know you have to meet these work requirements by this date, and mailing out letters, trying to communicate to residents.

I would say that it's a lot of information. It's overwhelming. It can be confusing to people, but there is this three-month grace period. I know that in the city at least, the Human Resources Administration here has been very, very busy and very aggressively trying to message out to people, sending them letters, calling them in for appointments, trying to figure out how they can meet these requirements, whether through work, volunteer, or something else.

Amina Srna: Listeners, if you're reliant on SNAP to feed yourself or your family members, we want to hear from you. We're curious to know how aware are you of these changes. Have you been able to provide the information needed to continue your benefits? Give us a call now at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Are you a part of the community that provides food aid through pantries? Is your organization expecting greater demand for the food assistance you currently provide? Call or text us at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692.

Karen, there have been a number of changes to the program since President Trump took office, but these new eligibility rules seem to be the most disruptive for recipients. The work requirements affect what are referred to as ABAWDs, which--

Karen Yi: ABAWDs, yes.

Amina Srna: ABAWDs. Okay. Which stands for Able-Bodied Adults Without Dependents. Let's break down who that is. First of all, adults. How are they defining adult?

Karen Yi: This is where it gets really complicated. SNAP has been a program that has existed since the Great Depression, and work requirements have also always existed for the states, but New York and New Jersey, because of our high unemployment rates, they've had a waiver where you could be able-bodied and within the age range of the former work requirements, which is over 18 up to 54, and you didn't have to prove that you were working because we had this waiver. What HR 1 did when congressional Republicans passed it, and President Trump signed it last summer, is it wasn't going to renew those waivers.

There was a back-and-forth battle over whether it was going to rescind those waivers earlier or let them expire. Now the waivers in both New York and New Jersey have expired. That means our states are now subject to the new work requirements. Those new work requirements are that if you are able-bodied without dependents, you have to either work, volunteer, or be in school in order to hold on to benefits for more than three months. Within each of those categories, it gets, again, a little bit wonky. There were exceptions before. If you were homeless, if you were a veteran, if you were aging out of foster care, those no longer apply.

Now, if you're homeless, a veteran, or aging out of foster care, receiving SNAP, you're subject to these work rules. Prior, if you had a child, you didn't have to submit to the work rules until your child turned 18. Now, it's when your child turns 14. That age has also decreased. Then the big thing, I think, and the big worry is for seniors, like I said before, the work requirements existed for able-bodied people up until they were 54. That's now been pushed up until you turn 65. In some cases, people may have already retired, and now they're thinking about how do you go back to the workforce or find a volunteer position that can help you meet these rules.

Amina Srna: You started to get into this, but, say, you are one of the ABAWDs, what is the actual work requirement? How many hours per week?

Karen Yi: It is 80 hours of work per month, so that's about 20 hours a week. You can also volunteer, and the volunteer hours are different, depending on your benefit amount. You're eligible for SNAP, depending on your income and other eligibility requirements. Then you get a benefit amount. That benefit amount by month, you divide that by the state's minimum wage in order to get the hours that you would need to volunteer per month, per week. In some cases, it could be three to four hours a week. In some cases, it could be six to eight hours a week. It really depends on what your benefit amount is, and then you divide it by your state's minimum wage.

You can also prove that you're in school or you're pursuing some sort of education program. I think the tricky part here is you have to consistently show documentation that you are working, doing volunteer, or in some sort of education program every month. Where people may be working, but maybe it's harder to prove, or they're seasonal workers, and so you may be working full-time, say, in the summer or in the fall, but maybe your employment dies down in certain parts of the year.

I spoke to a home health aide who received SNAP a couple of months ago when we were talking about what these work rules would mean. She said, "I meet the requirement, but if my patient, who I'm caring for, is in the hospital for a few weeks, I'm not getting paid." She might not be able to meet the requirement that month. There's a lot of workers in our economy and in the gig economy or in the cash economy that are actually working, but maybe might have a harder time proving consistently that they're working.

Amina Srna: You started talking about this, but able-bodied, how is that defined, and what kind of paperwork is involved?

Karen Yi: Able-bodied, essentially proving that you don't have any impairment to be able to do work. You can file an exemption if you have a disability. I think this is where the city and your local service, county services in New Jersey, or the HRA here in New York City, has been working diligently to figure out, "Okay, who do we have in our system as able-bodied, and is that actually accurate?" Because we haven't had to prove these work requirements in many, many years, because we've had a waiver, people weren't necessarily filing their disability exemptions because they didn't have to. They didn't have to prove work requirements.

I think that is part of the task that is now that these city and county agencies are doing, trying to figure out if you're actually able-bodied, and if you are not, making sure you submit the proper paperwork to prove that you are exempt because you have a disability.

Amina Srna: A listener texts, "What about the developmentally disabled?"

Karen Yi: That is a good question. I know there is a disability form. I think you would be exempt. I think you just have to fill out the form and, again, provide some proof and evidence. I believe that should be an exemption, but again, if that's your situation, if you have a case manager at the SNAP office, I would just check that with them.

Amina Srna: Let's take a caller. Here is Derek in Manhattan. Hi, Derek. You're on WNYC.

Derek: Hello. Good morning. Long-time listener, and called several different times. How are you?

Amina Srna: Good.

Derek: Great. I wanted to ask a particular question for a particular community. Within the SNAP and HRA ecosystem are those who are in the HASA program. What does that actually entail as far as protections for able-bodied workers? Are they considered able-bodied workers or not?

Amina Srna: Derek, thank you so much for your call. Karen, can you explain the HASA program for us?

Karen Yi: Yes. HASA is a supportive housing program that the city runs that is for people with HIV/AIDS. I don't know how many people are in HASA program. What supportive housing is, is housing where a tenant pays 30% of their income toward rent, and the rest is subsidized by the city-state. There's a mix of city-state, federal dollars, and tax credits that go into this housing. The purpose is to do housing with support. There is wraparound social services. The provider is usually helping people sign up for SNAP. Derek, I think that is a really good question for the supportive housing provider, and trying to figure out who is eligible and who can potentially be exempt.

I don't think HASA, as a housing unit, or if you're in the HASA program, you would automatically be exempt. I think it would be particular to your situation and your particular disability, or condition, or personal situation. I don't know, but to your question, I think that is what many people are trying to figure out. It's confusing, and we haven't really done this before, both the city side and also the nonprofits that are helping people through their benefits. Everyone's learning here.

Amina Srna: Listeners, if you're just joining us, this is The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm producer Amina Srna, filling in for Brian today, talking with my colleague, Karen Yi, the WNYC and Gothamist reporter covering homelessness and poverty, about the changes to SNAP eligibility. Help us report this story. If your eligibility has recently changed under the new work requirement rules, give us a call now at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692, or any comments or questions you have. 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Let's take another call. Here's Harry in Forest Hills, who I think wants to talk about the amount of paperwork he has to do. Hi, Harry. You're on WNYC.

Harry: Hi, how are you? It's the work qualification that is not my issue. I'm a senior, two-time cancer survivor. The last time pushed me into the economic strait I am in. With minimal acceptability, I was denied. There was really a flat denial across for many people. I went to a SNAP office, and one of the SNAP workers, on the side, before I spoke to an agent, said they're refusing a lot of people. If you want to get back on, get in touch with your local representative, who was Andrew Hevesi. There was another issue where they were checking my background, called my sister, and my sister refused the call because the phone call came in as all zeros, which most people know is a hacker or a junk call.

They had told me, "Well, we tried calling your sister." I said, "When and what time?" My sister sent me her cell phone records, and I saw the phone call come in. I had brought it to them, and I said, "Can you call my sister now?" And they said, "No, we cannot do that." I said, "Can you call her again?" She was only called once. I qualified in a number of areas when they-- Well, basically, it's a quagmire, and someone should go and apply just to see what the process is. Unfortunately, I can't get into my computer at this moment, but they need multiple series of identifications, like in five or six categories, that, right now, I think probably half of your listeners would have a hard time getting that information together.

Amina Srna: Harry, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. Karen, we've been asking you about the requirements and how people are expected to prove them. What stands out to you in Harry's story?

Karen Yi: I think what Harry is describing is what I've heard from many other New Yorkers who are struggling to even get into SNAP. This is a program that is a federal program, but is administered by states and then local service districts. There is a lot of paperwork involved just to prove that you're eligible for the benefit in the first place. That alone entails what Harry's speaking about. Very often, bureaucratic delays. Very often, your paperwork was blurry and didn't scan properly when you uploaded it through the app.

The city has been moving toward digitizing a lot of this and encouraging people to apply online, I think, to cut out some of the staff power and make things faster, but that's also created its own problems. Many years ago, there were issues with just really, really long lags in how long the city was taking to process SNAP applications. That's gotten better, but hasn't entirely been improved and met the city's own goals of how quickly they want to process applications. What Harry is talking about is a problem, it sounds like to me, that has existed and predated these requirements. Now you are adding more paperwork and more bureaucracy on top of that.

For people like Harry and other people who are trying to even get into the door, once they do, then they're going to have to figure out, "Okay, do I have to qualify for these work requirements, and how does that work?" It's a lot for the city to process. It's a lot for New Yorkers to have to do just additional paperwork, waiting, research. It can be frustrating. That can discourage people from participating in SNAP and ultimately lose them to A, not get benefits, or B, lose their benefits.

Amina Srna: Karen, we're getting a couple of texts from seniors looking for clarification. What about the seniors? No change on benefits and no work requirement, right?

Karen Yi: If you are 65 or older, you are not subject to the work requirements. If you already receive SNAP and you turn 65 or you're about to turn 65, you're good. You don't have to do anything. I would always be cognizant of what is coming into the mail. HRA, Human Resources Administration, they send letters, and I believe New Jersey does the same, to inform SNAP recipients of what's coming or any changes that are coming. You do have to recertify, and that's always been the case. That continues to be a requirement, but if you are a senior that is under the age of 65, then you are subject to the work requirements.

The city doesn't want to see people lose their SNAP benefits because it's money in people's pockets, it's money that they can spend on food, it helps reduce poverty levels across the city. What they've done to try and get ahead of this is partner with several nonprofits across the city. Last I checked with them, there were 70 nonprofits. These are nonprofits that are saying, "Listen, we want to help. We have all of these volunteer slots open." They're going to help people in their community sign up for those volunteer slots so that they can meet the volunteer requirement that way.

For some of the bigger nonprofits, they're the ones that can help with the paperwork. They'll say, "Look, we have 15 volunteers. They're all on SNAP. These are their hours for the week, for the month," and submit that to the city. In some cases, that's happening. In other cases, it's just a pool of nonprofits where people can find volunteer locations, because I think the challenging part, particularly for older New Yorkers, is knowing where to go. Maybe you haven't been in the job market for a long time. Maybe you don't know where to volunteer. I think since the pandemic, a lot of seniors haven't left their home as much as they used to, and maybe don't know what's around them.

There are communities trying to work together with the city to say, "Here are some options." That age range, again, if you're 65, you're okay.

Amina Srna: We are getting a mix of listeners who are either seeking employment or are gig workers. On that first point, here is Donald in the Bronx. Hi, Donald. You're on WNYC.

Daryl: Hello?

Amina Srna: Hi. You're on WNYC.

Daryl: This is not Donald. This is Daryl. My question was, y'all pretty much somewhat answered the question, where are the jobs? Because right now in healthcare, they're facing layoffs. That's one. Number two, because of the migrant thing, they're discharging folks off these jobs. When I was younger, there was a manpower program that was able to place individuals into jobs into the private sector, and such. Where is that program now? Because if they knew this was coming, where are these folks are going to be placed then? The employers are not going to take this on unless they're getting some money back in order to supplement for these workers.

The other final piece on that is the technology has dramatically changed. It has changed dramatic-- and then in less than three years, and right now we're facing AI. You're asking folks who may not have no background working on computers or anything like that. Could you answer that question for me, please?

Amina Srna: Yes. Thank you, Daryl, in the Bronx. Sorry, we got your name wrong there. Karen, I think Daryl's question, answer it wherever you want to come in, but maybe you want to talk about any assistance in finding work.

Karen Yi: Yes. The city does have work training programs, and I've heard very, very mixed reviews, and I think that's putting it gracefully about how effective these programs are in A, training workers, for what you're saying, Daryl, for like the new economy and potentially more technology-focused jobs, but also be in placing workers in these jobs that aren't just minimum wage, that don't set you up for maybe a longer term career. I've heard mixed reviews, but the city does have-- I believe, either if you are meeting with your case manager or in these letters, they are sending out resources and options, but you're right.

I think these work requirements are coming up against a difficult economy where you do see pretty high rates, particularly among younger people, of unemployment. You have people that are potentially having to return to the workforce that haven't been in the workforce before, and figuring out, "What kind of job can I do? What skills do I have? Do my skills still apply?" I think that's where the concern is. How many people are looking for work and just can't find any, and won't be able to within this three-month grace period?

For gig workers, yes, absolutely. You might be okay right now because it's a busy month, but it might be a slow season come winter or fall. It might be a little bit harder for you to meet your work requirements there. This is, again, you have to consistently show a pay stub, a letter from your employer, or if you're self-employed, you fill out a self-employment form. These are the paperwork and the requirements that the city has said that they need from SNAP recipients who now fall into these rules.

Amina Srna: This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. This is New York and New Jersey Public Radio. Karen, you were just talking about gig workers. Here's a text. "Question concern for the guest. I'm an ABAWD who is an active artist. I have sporadic income that's often hard to prove, but I'm always working. What are the many artists and gig workers in NYC meant to do in this situation?"

Karen Yi: That's a great question. I think a lot of the concern that I've heard from nonprofits and even the city is focused on the seniors, but I think that the texter has a really great point. For the artist community, where work isn't always steady, and how do you even prove that? I don't know what kind of work the texter does. There is a self-employment form. I don't know if that would be something that you would meet, but that is, if you don't have a W-2, you don't have a paystub, and you don't have an employer, you are your own employer, presumably, this is your option. To fill out the self-employment form.

I think a lot of that is going to have to do with the city being able to-- how they're processing these forms and what they're considering as valid self-employment. I think we're at the cusp of seeing how much this is going to affect people and who is going to be affected the most. I think thinking about artists and keeping artists in mind and gig workers in mind is going to be top of mind for me. Figuring out how the system is or isn't working for them and what the city can do to better support and send resources to the artist community as well.

Amina Srna: I want to ask you about two more groups before we move on to bigger picture. First, on students. Here is a text. "I want to clarify a point about the SNAP program. I was previously enrolled when I was self-employed, and when I recently enrolled full-time in graduate school, lost benefits. Full-time students are not eligible unless they meet extra criterion." Is that true, and can you walk us through what that extra criterion is?

Karen Yi: It sounds like the texter is talking about just basic SNAP eligibility, not about the new work requirements. Under the work requirements, being enrolled in school would qualify, and you would be able to keep your benefits. It sounds like there's an issue with the reenrollment or recertification of the benefit. I don't know why being a full-time student would disqualify you from SNAP. I think it has to do more with your income, which is set at 130% of the poverty line. I don't know, I would have to know a little bit more about the particulars of that situation, but it sounds like, to me, it's a basic eligibility question, not related necessarily to the work requirement, because being in school would satisfy that.

Amina Srna: Got it. A listener texts, "I work at a nonprofit. How do we let folks know we're open to volunteers?" First, before you answer that question, actually, let me ask you, what about volunteering? Does that qualify as work? Then two, is there a way that listeners like the listener that works at a nonprofit can get in touch, post their volunteer positions for people?

Karen Yi: Yes, volunteering does count, so does in-kind work. If you're working and not getting paid for whatever reason, that also qualifies. The volunteer requirement, like I was explaining at the top, is a little bit more complicated than work. Work requirement is just 80 hours a month. Volunteer really has to do with your benefit amount divided by the state minimum wage, and then you can get your hourly requirement for the week or the month, which can be anywhere from maybe three to four hours if you're getting a maximum benefit, to a little bit more, six to eight a week.

For nonprofits, the city has launched this, really, I think, I don't know if it's the first of its kind, but it is a partnership with nonprofit providers around the city that are exactly like this texter, trying to let people know, "We're here to support you. We have volunteer positions available. We can help you meet that volunteer requirement." I would suggest that the nonprofit to reach out to the city and ask them to get on this list. It's like a memorandum of understanding, I think, that you sign, you get on the list, and the city is referring SNAP recipients to this list.

I would also just-- Outreach your community. Not everyone knows that this is coming, and because it is so complicated, it feels like a game of Snakes and Ladders, right? Like, if this, then this happens, but if you can get exemption, and then you can climb back up the ladder. If you're now this age and your child is at-- It is overwhelming, I think, for me as a reporter. It's overwhelming for the city to start to navigate this and add this to an already bureaucratic program, and it's overwhelming for people who don't follow this all the time. I think if you've read the news in the last few months, there has been so much back and forth about what group of people are eligible for these requirements, who isn't eligible for SNAP at all?

We had the government freeze during the shutdown, where SNAP was on hold for two weeks, which was chaotic. Then you have our Attorney General and New Jersey's, who have been leading the charge on a lot of the guidance that has come out from the federal government, the USDA, which funds this program. The timeline has been a moving target here as to when exactly it was going to take effect. I can see how people may think everything is fine or things aren't happening yet, but we are in it. Come May 1st, we're going to see the first waves of people in New Jersey start to lose their benefits if they don't meet these requirements.

Come June 1st in New York, we're going to start to see the first waves of people there lose their benefits. Right now is the crunch time where everyone has to get their paperwork together, figure out their eligibility, and really work with the nonprofits in the area, the community groups in their area, and the city to get their ducks in a row.

Amina Srna: As we wrap up, the government is requiring states to pick up more of the administrative costs. Their workload is increasing, but the funding is being cut. Is that change reflected in the state budgets now being negotiated in New York and New Jersey?

Karen Yi: What is changing there is this is a federally funded program, and it is administered by states, but now states, for the first time, will have to pay to administer this federal program. The second thing is, for the first time, part of the actual benefit will have to be covered by local municipalities. Those costs, there's rolling timelines for this. I think it's 2027, fall of 2027, is when the first administrative cost that the state will have to pay for administering SNAP. There is in this state budget some money that is proposed for SNAP navigators, which are like outreach workers that will help get the message out.

I think that's going to be huge to this. Just letting people know that these rules are coming and what to do, and how to meet them so that you don't have people falling off the program and losing their benefits. Yes, down the line, there is going to be more city and state taxpayer money required to fund a program that has always historically been provided for by the federal government.

Amina Srna: Let's talk about the timing of this. We hear all the time that we're having an affordability crisis, which includes grocery prices. Why the impetus to cut food aid now?

Karen Yi: When this was pushed through by congressional Republicans, the impetus last summer what they said was to cut waste, fraud, and abuse, and really encourage people to work and participate in the economy. What's interesting is the USDA, which manages this program at the federal level, a study that they did in 2021 showed that work rules actually don't work to get people back to work. Actually, the result of work requirements was that participants dropped off from the program. The government's own studies are showing this. I think that's what advocates here locally, in both New Jersey and New York, have been warning about. These rules really seem punitive and really seem with the intent of pushing people off of the program.

Amina Srna: On the waste, fraud, and abuse, is there any evidence that people are scamming SNAP benefits?

Karen Yi: I think what is a huge problem is skimming. You get your SNAP benefit on an EBT card. It's like a debit card. What has happened a lot in New York and in New Jersey is that they attach these devices to little readers, and they skim people's benefits off. The government used to have a program where victims could get their money back, but the Trump administration did not renew it. It expired in December 2024. You have SNAP recipients who have lost a lot of their benefits, months of benefits, millions of dollars across both states, and no way to return that.

What we're seeing in New Jersey, they're starting to roll out chip-enabled EBT cards, which will be more protective. In New York, Governor Hochul said she would do it sometime this year or at least agree to do it this year. We're not sure about the timeline on that, but that is fraud that is happening, and that is affecting SNAP recipients, and that both states are trying to find ways to update their technology to prevent that because now there is no safety net for victims to get compensated for their loss benefits by the federal government.

Amina Srna: Last question. We've been talking about the politics of the work requirements. We've been talking about the very human story of how this is going to impact people and how people have been impacted, and then there's the broader economic question. It gets pointed out that grocery stores rely on spending by SNAP recipients. Are you hearing concern from local vendors?

Karen Yi: Absolutely. I think during the government shutdown in November, we saw a window into how much SNAP really affects the local economy, and particularly in certain communities. Essentially, SNAP is money to buy groceries, and many grocery stores rely on SNAP, upwards of 50, 60% for their revenue. If that goes away, that is not revenue you can easily replace. What we saw during the government shutdown, when SNAP benefits were put on hold for two weeks, is you had grocery stores either having to throw away a lot of food because it wasn't getting sold, or holding back on ordering items because they knew their customers wouldn't be able to afford it.

The shutdown, if I remember, happened at the beginning of the month. It was around Thanksgiving. I was speaking to grocers at the time in the Bronx. There are parts of New York City where more than 60% of households are receiving SNAP. This store was, I think, 80% of their revenue relies on SNAP. They were saying that it was quiet. Nobody was coming to shop around. I think that gives us a potential look at what this could look like long-term, and the economic effects on communities. Across the city, you're seeing more neighborhoods have really big jumps in SNAP recipients.

Neighborhoods like Flushing and Murray Hill in Queens saw 61% jump in SNAP recipients between 2018 and 2025. That's data that my colleague, Joe Hong, put together. Across all of these boroughs in these communities, you're seeing more households having to rely on this, which means the local economy is relying on this, because grocery stores and bodegas that take this, that's money for them. If you take that away, and then you have recipients instead having to use their money, or instead having to rely on the emergency food network, go to pantries to put food on their table, that's going to really affect small businesses.

Amina Srna: That's all the time we have for today. Karen Yi, I'm sure you'll be keeping track of these effects, of these changes in your ongoing work covering poverty and homelessness for WNYC and Gothamist. Thank you, Karen, for joining us this morning.

Karen Yi: Thanks.

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