[MUSIC - Alex Warren: Ordinary]

Brian Lehrer: No, that's not The Brian Lehrer Show theme. That's Ordinary by Alex Warren. That is the song that's been dominating the Billboard charts this summer. Wait, we're nearly halfway through the summer, and music critics and music fans alike are asking, do we even have a song of the summer of '25 yet? Song of the summer refers to the most popular and widely heard song during the summer months. It's very much an unofficial title sometimes, but not always based on how well it charts. It's more about a song's cultural impact, in many years, becoming the anthem of the season because it captures some kind of spirit of the season, right?

This year's selection, according to several recent news articles, is decidedly more of a quiet type of pop music, unlike many of its predecessors. We're going to play some more examples. Joining us now to break down this season's pop music landscape and offer some of her picks for song of the summer and invite yours is Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, NPR music reporter. Hey, Isabella, welcome to WNYC.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Hi, Brian. Thank you for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, do you have a song of the summer of '25? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Certainly, if we just go by the Billboard Top 100, then Ordinary by Alex Warren probably would be it, right?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Yes, that's right. That song has been at number one for eight weeks and counting. It's a massive hit on social media as well because Alex Warren actually got his start as a TikToker. He lived in The Hype House, which was like a mansion with a bunch of content creators in LA, and he has completely crossed over into the mainstream.

Brian Lehrer: If it's been dominating the Billboard charts for that much of the summer, why not just call it the song of the summer?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: I think the song of the summer, and again, this is totally subjective, but it tends to have this sort of big, joyful sound to it. I think Ordinary is definitely a huge pop hit, but it could be a hit any time of the year. It's a very serious and faith-based song, so it doesn't necessarily fit what we might consider song of the summer material. Also, people listen in so many different ways, streaming TikTok, social media. It's totally cracked open audiences and fragmented audiences, so I think it's just a lot harder to find one song that everybody's listening to in the same way we would have maybe a few years ago.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, or even last year, right? Last year was dubbed Brat Summer after the album Brat by Charli XCX was so popular. Those of us who follow politics also saw the Kamala Harris campaign-

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: That's right.

Brian Lehrer: -in the presidential election, used a lot of the songs from that album and some of its motifs, especially after Charli declared Kamala is brat on social media. That's one difference between last year and this year, though it may have been politically polarizing.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Yes, that's totally true. To your point, Brian, Brat wasn't a top charting album, but it had a viral dance. It had a viral color, which was lime green. Everyone was talking about it. It became part of the vernacular in a way that we just don't see that often with pop songs. There was also, last year, a huge rise in these stars like Sabrina Carpenter, Chappell Roan, who had been making music for a while, but cracked into the mainstream all at the same time. We're just not really seeing that sort of emergence of new pop voices in the same way this summer.

Brian Lehrer: You mentioned Sabrina Carpenter. Let's hear a little bit of an example of a song by her that kind of fits the mold of what you've been talking about. A lot of the songs this summer are from a bit of a slower tempo or have a bit of a slower tempo. Here's a few seconds of Manchild by Sabrina Carpenter.

[MUSIC - Sabrina Carpenter: Manchild]

Brian Lehrer: You want to walk us through this contender for song of summer?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Yes. I think something that makes Sabrina Carpenter really special is that she's really funny and she's really, really cheeky in her lyrics. Again, I think it makes it a good song of the summer because she doesn't take herself too seriously. There's a line in the song when she says, I think it's something like, "Why so sexy, if so dumb?" Like, she's just sort of making fun of the men in her life and having a lot of fun while doing it. It's this sort of synthy, very catchy, dancey song. I think it does fall in the ranks of what we consider to be a usual song of the summer.

Brian Lehrer: Here's an interesting call, I think. Mike in Yonkers, who I think is going to say that 2024 never actually ended in this respect. Mike, you're on WNYC. Hello. You know it's August 4th, 2025, right?

Mike: I do. I sing that song every day. It rents space for free in my head.

Brian Lehrer: Which one?

Mike: I don't know why. The Pink Pony Club. I really think that it still has legs on it, and it's a great song for the summer.

Brian Lehrer: The Chappell Roan song from last year. Okay. Kyle in Williamsburg, maybe with something similar. Kyle, you're on WNYC. Hi there.

Kyle: Granted, the national mood is like-- I don't think it's where it should be for a new song of summer, so I'm still Brat. I don't know about the Billboard Top 100 or whatever they're playing over on a clear channel station, but that's not what I hear in the bar. It's not what I hear in the club. It's still last year.

Brian Lehrer: Kyle, thank you very much. That's really interesting, right, Isabella, two calls right there? Boom, boom, it's still 2024.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Totally. That is something we are actually seeing on the charts is there's still a lot of songs from last year. There's sort of this hangover effect. There was such an increase in volume of really incredible pop hits last year that they're still kind of dominating this year. I think people are holding on to those good vibes from last summer, just like we just heard.

Brian Lehrer: Let's get to some of the picks that you curated for contenders for Song of 2025 Summer for NPR Music. Here's a bit of Papasito by Karol G.

[MUSIC - Karol G: Papasito]

Brian Lehrer: Maybe relevant that that song is in Spanish, because here's a text from a listener that says, "Summer 2025 is not a normal summer with ICE kidnapping people, Alligator Alcatraz, CECOT, our government being destroyed, et cetera. It doesn't seem right for light and upbeat songs to rain. Interesting thought.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Yes, definitely. I think the energy has shifted, and I think the headlines are definitely influencing the way that people feel. This album from Karol G came out earlier this summer. She's usually known as a reggaeton, Latin pop star, but as you can hear on Papasito, she's taking this much more acoustic, sort of techno, merengue approach, and it's a really refreshing sound from her. It's not something we've heard on her past albums.

Brian Lehrer: That text obviously was in a certain political context. Would you say that there's polarization in songs of the summer? Like, there is polarization in so much else politically and culturally these days?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: I think the thing is there's not supposed to be because the song of the summer is this big communal experience. It's something that everybody can get behind. I'm thinking of like in 2022 when Beyoncé released Break My Soul. That was a song about people coming together after being in isolation for a long time. That was something people could get behind, regardless of political affiliation.

Brian Lehrer: Let's play another clip from your contender list for Song of the Summer of '25. A little bit of Daisies by Justin Bieber.

[MUSIC - Justin Bieber: Daisies]

Brian Lehrer: Still Bieber, huh?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Still Bieber, but it is a much more subdued song than what we usually hear from Bieber. It's got those underwater guitars. It was produced by Mk.gee, who's like this rising guitar god. It is just like a quieter sound. It really lets his voice shine, which I think is really fun. He's like in heartthrob mode, which we haven't heard from him in a long time. It is a much more subdued summer anthem, and it does speak, I think, to those text messages about the vibe right now.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we're going to go to a few more of your Song of the Summer of '25 nominations. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Nadia in Livingston in Jersey, you're on WNYC. Hey, Nadia, thanks for calling in.

Nadia: Hey, thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: What you got?

Nadia: My song of summer is-- What?

Brian Lehrer: Yes, what you got?

Nadia: Illegal by PinkPantheress.

Brian Lehrer: Tell us why?

Nadia: PinkPantheress is a pop star, two-step bass artist from the UK. I feel like this summer, we're seeing a British invasion again with artists like Beabadoobee or Central Cee, and PinkPantheress. Illegal is just a super fun girly song that's been trending, and I think a lot of us could say it's one of the songs of summer.

Brian Lehrer: Nadia, thanks. What happened there? Oh, sorry, I thought I knocked my microphone off there for a second. Isabella, I gather Illegal is huge on TikTok. I want to note that Nadia identified herself to our screener as a ninth grader. When you're looking at high school age students, some of the new British Invasion bands and artists that she was referring to, you see that as a thing?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Yes, totally. I think Illegal by PinkPantheress is definitely a top contender for song of the summer. I think it's one of those songs that's just really taken on a life of its own on TikTok. It's got this sort of trend that goes with one of the hooks in the songs, and that's totally boosted PinkPantheress' profile. She's been around for a few years. She's a very enigmatic performer. I think this song has put her on the map in a different way.

Brian Lehrer: Another one. Mark in Long Island City, you're on WNYC. Hi, Mark.

Mark: Hey, good morning, Brian. Going even further back than 2024, I wanted to propose in honor of Oasis's big reunion tour. They have a deep cut called Acquiesce. That's just a great song that people should seek out.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. One more. Mook in Ellicottville, New York, you're on WNYC. Hi, Mook.

Mook: Hi there. I just want to give a shoutout to Sapphire by Ed Sheeran. It's a collaboration with a legendary singer-songwriter, Arijit Singh, from India. It's a really amazing song and includes some Punjabi in there, too, so I want to give that one a shoutout.

Brian Lehrer: Mook, thank you very much. Isabella, we asked for listeners' throwback summer songs in advance of this segment, and you have one, too, that we'll go out with in a minute. Interesting, as the second-to-last caller cited, a lot of people continue to look back.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Absolutely. They're not looking back in anger. Everyone's so excited about the Oasis reunion, and I think everyone sees the song of the summer as this nostalgic thing that encapsulates and holds your memories of spending time with your loved ones in the sun in the summer. Like you mentioned, Brian, I do have a throwback in there as well that I would like to go out on.

Brian Lehrer: You want to set it up?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Of course. This is the song Summeboy by Lady Gaga. It is off of her debut album, The Fame, which came out in 2008.

Brian Lehrer: Before we take you all back to 2008, to close the show, I just want to thank Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, music reporter for NPR. Thanks so much for coming on. A bunch of people heard some songs I hadn't heard before. I always love when we can do that and turn some people on to some new music. Also, we got some of people's opinions on the table. Thanks a lot for joining us.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Of course. Thank you for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Lady Gaga, 2008.

[MUSIC - Lady Gaga: Summerboy]

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