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Kousha Navidar: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar, a host here at WNYC, filling in for Brian today. Here's what's coming up on today's show, The Second Avenue subway extension, which was recently postponed after Governor Hochul paused the congestion pricing program. It's been revived. We'll talk about that and the fate of other projects that MTA has had to put on hold. Plus, later in the show, why the decision to take the plunge to retire can be really hard for some people. We'll definitely want to hear from you on that. If you're approaching retirement age or have recently retired, that conversation will be in about an hour.

Then we're going to wrap up today's show with the 9th thing in our centennial series, 100 years of 100 things. It's going to be pizza. We'll talk about the history of the best food- pizza [chuckles] here in New York. First, it's been two weeks since President Biden withdrew from the 2024 election campaign and endorsed his vice president Kamala Harris. Does it only feel like yesterday to anyone else or actually somehow even longer?

Well, at the very least, it's long enough to get some polling results. The good news is good for the Democrats in that VP Harris is polling better than President Biden did, but it's still a tie game. Today's probably the day she makes her first big decision of the campaign, naming her running mate. To catch up with the latest, we're joined by Nancy Cook, senior national political correspondent for Bloomberg News. Nancy, welcome.

Nancy Cook: Thanks so much for having me.

Kousha Navidar: Great to have you here. Let's start with Harris's imminent decision on a VP pick. Do you expect this announcement today, or did I miss anything on my walk from my desk down to the studio?

Nancy Cook: [laughs] She has not picked someone yet, but we're expecting the decision today at the latest tomorrow morning. She is supposed to be in Pennsylvania with whoever she picks tomorrow afternoon, so she will have to make the decision by then. As you alluded to in the introduction, this has just been a real race to pick that person in a really compressed timeframe. She's really under the gun to make that decision.

Kousha Navidar: It's been a pretty quick moving process. Yesterday, she met in person with three potential candidates for VP. There's Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly and Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. First, does that mean that they are the only ones still in the running?

Nancy Cook: Our reporting over the past week has really shown that Governor Walts and Governor Shapiro are really, I would say, the top two contenders. I think Senator Kelly is still in the mix. As of a week ago, that was the short list. My money is on either Walz or Shapiro. Potentially, she interviewed those three people in Washington, DC, at the Naval observatory where she lives, but her campaign left open the idea that she would certainly be having discussions with other people. There was a team of Democratic lawyers led by former attorney general Eric Holder, who served in the Obama administration, who vetted about twelve to 15 people.

They did vet a wider range of people, including, for instance, Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo was one of them. Harris is really looking for a white man who can balance the ticket in terms of gender and some politics. I think she's looking for someone who is viewed as a little bit more of a centrist in the party and potentially, particularly in the case of Kelly and Shapiro, someone who could help her win a swing state and really put her over the line there.

Kousha Navidar: The word chemistry has been thrown around a lot as well. Can you talk a little bit about those meetings? How important was it for who she just gets along with? How does that make a difference that would help with voters, especially swing state voters?

Nancy Cook: I think the chemistry makes a huge difference. Harris is the vice president, so she has a very key understanding of what that job takes. It is an unusual job. You're responsible for some policy stuff, but you can't overshadow your boss. You need to be a good teammate. You need to be able to add things on the stump and do events with her, but also do events your own. They were really looking for chemistry. What is interesting to me is that Walz has really distinguished himself as someone who has effectively gone after Trump and Republicans.

He's really the person in the party who coined that word weird, just calling them weird, which other Democrats have really seized on as what they think is a good way to describe the Republican Party right now. Josh Shapiro is a key figure for Harris. The two of them were both attorney generals together, and they do know each other quite well. I think that the chemistry there is potentially-- They have a friendship, and they know one another. I think that could really help him.

Kousha Navidar: We're going into some of these candidates. Let's dig a little bit deeper. You're saying that Walz and Shapiro are the frontrunners. Maybe we can go through the pros and cons for each of them. Let's maybe start with Tim Walz, the governor of Minnesota. Interestingly here, he's not from a swing state. To borrow your term, is it weird, haha, that he's a finalist? Give me some more of the pros on him.

Nancy Cook: The pros on him are that he has an amazing background. He has been high school social studies teacher. He's been a football coach. He has served in the military. He is very effective at attacking Trump on TV. He has a whole midwestern dad or grandfather vibe, even though he's just a few months older than Harris or younger. They're both 59. He really has this midwestern, every-man vibe which they think could really help add to the ticket.

The cons, as you said, is that he's not from a swing state. Minnesota is not a swing state. He is not going to help her win an electoral state that she really needs to, like a Pennsylvania or Arizona. That's the big black mark against him. Even though I think that throughout this process, he has really risen in stature, and I think a lot of Democrats have looked at him with fresh eyes.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, do you want [sound cut] which vice presidential contender Kamala Harris should or will pick? Do you want to weigh in on that? Tell us what your thoughts are. Ultimately, will it matter to your vote, or do you have a question on the latest polls or other questions for my guest, Nancy Cook of Bloomberg News? Give us a call. Send us a text. We're at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Nancy, let's go through Governor Shapiro a little bit. Pros and cons.

Nancy Cook: Sure. He has two very big pros. One is that he is the governor of a very key swing state, Pennsylvania. If Harris could win Pennsylvania, that would really help her towards winning the presidency. He won that state by about 15 percentage points as governor. He is a very popular governor. He's a centrist governor who has policies, particularly on school choice, that appeal to not just Democrats. He and Harris, as I said earlier, have known each other for years as attorney generals. They both have a legal background. They have a lot of chemistry. They know each other well. That would be a huge help to her. His cons are-- I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Kousha Navidar: No, go ahead. Yes, [unintelligible 00:08:05]

Nancy Cook: The cons are that he is a centrist. There's a bunch of policies that he has that progressives do not love in the party. One of them is school choice. He is also jewish and has really come out and been supportive of Israel during the war in Gaza. Some people say this is anti semitic, but there are people who say that he has not been supportive enough of being horrified by what's happening in Gaza, and that has been another attack on him.

There's a lot of young voters who are very upset by the war in Gaza. The feeling is that he may not appeal to those people. Those are the big cons for him. I will say in the past week, the most opposition research that has been shopped around and the most criticism has come from Shapiro. People are nervous about him, but at the same time, he has the biggest upside and that he could help her deliver Pennsylvania, and they know each other well.

Kousha Navidar: Speaking of Pennsylvania, the first joint appearance of the vice president with whomever she's chosen will be in Philadelphia. Should we read anything into that, or is that just a coincidence?

Nancy Cook: I think that it's a little bit of a coincidence. What she's doing this whole week, once she picks the vice president, is going to a bunch of swing states. She's basically just campaigning in most of them. Pennsylvania is a state that Democrats really need to win. It was a state that Joe Biden had a lot of juice in because he grew up in Scranton partially. I wouldn't read the Philly appearance as a shoe in for Shapiro.

Kousha Navidar: I want to make sure that we hit on Senator Mark Kelly as well from Arizona. You're saying maybe not quite in contention, but still in the top three. Is that fair, pros and cons for him?

Nancy Cook: Kelly has also an amazing background. He is an astronaut, or he was an astronaut. He is a senator. He is the husband to Gabby Giffords, who, as we all know, was shot at a political event when she was a member of Congress. He has stood by her through that. He is a key voice on gun control. Like Walz, he has this dream candidate resume. He's also from Arizona, which is a key swing state. He is very familiar with the border issues. Immigration is one of the key areas where Trump has really been trying to attack the Democrats.

Kelly could help neutralize that. I think that Kelly and Harris do not know each other as well as, let's say, Harris and Shapiro. That is something to consider. Also, some Democrats feel like he's not as exciting or as gifted an orator as Shapiro or Walz who has done a great job of attacking Trump so far. It's unclear if he could do as well as some others when he headlines these rallies himself if he was the vice presidential pick.

Kousha Navidar: We've got some texts coming in right now. A number of them are asking something along this line, which I'm about to read. One texter says, what happened to Pete Buttigieg? Still, in the running or just an also ran in this case?

Nancy Cook: The way it was explained to me by some Democrats involved in this process was that they vetted twelve to 15 people, and people end up on that betting list because they could end up in the cabinet or because donors want them to or progressives. I don't think Pete Buttigieg is going to end up as the vice president. I feel very confident saying that. He is very well liked by donors. He is a rising star in the Democratic Party. I think that part of the vet was so that they could see him potentially in the cabinet if Harris wins.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, if you have a sense of who you would like to see as the VP pick for our current VP and presumptive candidate on the Democratic side, Kamala Harris, who do you think she should or will pick? Ultimately, will it matter to your vote, or do you have a question on the latest polls or any other questions for our guest, Nancy Cook of Bloomberg News? Give us a call. Send us a text. We're at 212-433-W-NYC. That's 212-433-9692. I'm thinking of the United Auto Workers president, Shawn Fain, who was on CBS's Face the Nation yesterday and put in a plug for another governor. Let's listen to that clip now.

Shawn Fain: My favorite is Andy Beshear from Kentucky. The man stood with us on the picket line. He's been there for workers throughout every bit of our walk. He's won in a state where Mitch McConnell's from. It's been a red state traditionally. He's won twice there. I just believe he brings a huge dynamic. I believe a Harris and Bashir ticket would be unbeatable.

Kousha Navidar: I don't know how much his vote counts, but I do see some texts here as well, Nancy, asking about Beshear. What happened to Governor Beshear?

Nancy Cook: He is definitely someone that they have vetted. He is definitely someone who has been in the mix. I think he has not risen to the short list just because Kentucky is also not a swing state. It's not something that he could help Harris deliver as an electoral victory. He has done a great job in the eyes of Democrats of going after Republicans and Trump. He is young. He is energetic.

He is from a red state. He would be a more centrist pick. I think all those are great. In this compressed timeframe, Harris is really picking someone who can help her win. I think there's a feeling in her inner circle that Beshear as the governor of Kentucky is not going to be someone who will help her win just in terms of the electoral map and winning enough the swing states that you need to beat Trump.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, we're going to go to some of your calls. Let's start off with Judith from the Upper West Side. Hi, Judith. Welcome to the show.

Judith: I was going to vote for a third party if Biden wasn't going to step down because of his horrible, horrible, horrible foreign policy. Now, I was plan on voting for Harris. However, if she picks Shapiro, that will be a sign that she intends to continue the horrible foreign policy, and I will vote third party.

Kousha Navidar: Judith, for you, foreign policy is the key issue that you're looking for. Is there a VP pick that you would prefer that would take you onto the side of not voting for a third party?

Judith: Everybody that was on the big list is good except Shapiro.

Kousha Navidar: Judith, thanks so much for your call. We're going to pause you there, but we appreciate you offering that perspective. Nancy, I'll bring it back to you. For how many people do you expect that they would share Judith's perspective here, which sounds like that that foreign policy pick is really going to determine whether or not they vote on Harris side?

Nancy Cook: I think the foreign policy question is huge for Harris, but it's also something that we're still see developing. She hasn't actually been the presumptive nominee for that long. We did see some hints on how she would handle foreign policy when Bibi Netanyahu, the president of Israel came to Washington, DC and met with both Biden and Harris. Harris afterwards indicated when she gave some remarks after she met with him that she would take a tougher stance against Israel than Biden had. Again, that's like a hint reading the tea leaves of her remarks.

She hasn't been a candidate long enough. She hasn't debated. She's still putting together her team where we really don't have a full picture of what her foreign policy agenda will be. I think it's a little premature for that. I do think that people who feel like Israel and Gaza are the key foreign policy questions, they will look at whether or not she picks Shapiro pretty critically.

Kousha Navidar: We have a text here on the other side for Shapiro. It says, "Josh Shapiro, clear choice. We get 19 electoral votes and a win for Kamala. Shapiro is moderate and loved by many, including moderate Republicans who may be swayed to vote Kamala." Obviously, differing opinions there. Let's go to Josh in Brooklyn. Sounds like you want to say something about Mark Kelly. Is that right, Josh?

Josh: Yes, I do. I think Mark Kelly would make a great pick. First, I think what would be terrific about him is because of his resume, he'd be able to diffuse Trump's faux macho campaign. He was an astronaut, a fighter pilot, and also, he'd be able to attract a lot of white working class men. In addition, I think his support of his wife, Gabby Gifford, has been amazing, and that would also help firm up support among women. Also, as much as I think Josh Shapiro would make a good candidate, sad to say, because I'm also Jewish, I'm not sure the country is ready for a Black president and a Jewish vice president.

Kousha Navidar: Josh, for you, the optics really do matter quite a bit, and you think that'll affect voters all across the country. Is that fair to say?

Josh: Tremendous. Yes, tremendously. I like Mark Kelly's from what I know of his positions in general, but I think the actual optics will make a huge difference.

Kousha Navidar: Josh, really appreciate the call. Thanks for dialing in there. Nancy, I'll bring it back to you. How much are optics playing in the pick that VP Harris is going through right now?

Nancy Cook: I think optics are playing a huge role. I think that that's why we haven't seen, for instance, the governor of Michigan, who's wildly popular in Michigan but who is a woman. We have not seen her rise to the short list. She took herself out of the running. There's not going to be a Gretchen Whitmer Kamala Harris ticket. I think because people feel like in the Democratic Party that the optics of having two women on the ticket in this day and age would be a bridge too far for most voters, particularly in swing states.

I think that they are really trying to pay attention to picking someone who would add to the ticket, balance the gender, balance Harris's beliefs. I think that that is something that they're really cognizant of.

Kousha Navidar: Let's go to Dessie in Lawrenceville, New Jersey. Hi, Dessie. Welcome to the show.

Dessie: Hi. Good morning. I have really just a quick question. With the craziness that electoral period and anything goes and the divisiveness being a big issue, would picking a very moderate Republican be a possibility? I'll take your answer off there.

Kousha Navidar: Dessie, thank you so much for that question. Very interesting perspective there. Nancy, what do you think? Is there ever a possibility of a moderate Republican VP pick, as Dessie is asking?

Nancy Cook: I don't think in this particular case. There was no one who was vetted who fit that bill. I think that what the Democratic Party is trying to do is pick more centrists from their own party and vet them. I think Andy Beshear falls into that category. Certainly, Josh Shapiro would, Mark Kelly and go with that. It would have been an interesting idea, but it's not something that they explored.

Kousha Navidar: We're going to go to a break very quickly, but I'm wondering about the presumptive nominee status of Harris as well, and just the process of what's going to happen in order for her to become the actual nominee pick, potentially. I understand there's a roll call going on right now ahead of the convention. Can you unpackage that a little bit, Nancy?

Nancy Cook: Sure. She basically coalesced all the support that she needed, but now they are officially doing a roll call vote, which will give her all officially the delegates that Biden had, and they planned this roll call vote for ahead of the convention. Then at the convention, they'll unveil it. That is happening today. It's just a process, technical party thing. Then we won't have to say presumptive nominee. She will actually be the nominee.

Kousha Navidar: This is The Brian Lehrer Show. I'm Kousha Nafidar, a host here at WNYC, filling in for Brian. Today, we're talking national politics with Nancy Cook, senior national political correspondent from Bloomberg News. We're going to pause there, take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: It's the Brian Lair show on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar. We're talking national politics with Nancy Cook, a senior national political correspondent for Bloomberg News. Before the break, we were talking about the upcoming, immediate almost, VP pick that the presumptive nominee, Kamala Harris is about to announce is going through right now. We took a bunch of calls. Before we move on, I want to take one more call on this topic from Davita in Manhattan. Hi, Davita. Welcome to the show.

Davita: Good morning. Miss Cook pointed out that Kelly is for gun control, but she didn't say he would appeal to the people who carry guns because he believes in the second amendment. I think that would be a fantastic person to have because he is central and everything. He is a border state. The fact about guns, he's going to appeal to a lot of those independents who own guns.

Kousha Navidar: Davita, thank you so much for that. Nancy, any thoughts on that?

Nancy Cook: No, I think that's a great point. He is just centrist across a bunch of policy areas, as Davita said. I think that Arizona just has a more centrist vibe, a swing state. He is more centrist on the border issues, more centrist on guns. I agree with her. He could definitely appeal to more swing-state people. One thing that I forgot to mention about Kelly is he has caught some flak from labor groups who are really key to the Democratic Coalition for some of his support about the Pro Act and some labor legislation that's worked its way through Congress. That is something that could also trip him up.

Kousha Navidar: Davita, we appreciate that call and bringing that up about Mark Kelly. I just got a text here that says, can the guest get more granular on the poll difference between Harris and Biden, younger, independent, core Democrat voter, other really great texts there because we are about to move on to polling, [laughs] which you can speak to really well, Nancy, I think. It looks like Harris has definitely had an impact there. Are you in agreement that most national polls show the races as even, or at least within the statistical margin of error?

Nancy Cook: Yes. Bloomberg News and Morning Consult, we had a swing state poll that came out last week that showed basically the race in a statistical dead heat. What that means is that Harris had really made up a lot of the ground that Biden had lost over the last year against Trump. The race is much tighter in these swing states that she needs to win between Harris and Trump. They're just within one percentage points of each other. She has made up ground in a bunch of the key states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia. What is interesting is that we're seeing, based on polling, but also we have reporters across the country who report out of all these swing states anecdotally as well.

We're seeing a lot of more enthusiasm for Harris's candidacy among young voters, Black voters and suburban women. The Trump campaign has never done well since Dobbs was overturned, and the federal right to an abortion was overturned with suburban women. That's been a really weak spot for them. We see Harris's candidacy has really made that group very enthusiastic. She has made young voters very enthusiastic.

The Trump campaign also was really trying to make inroads with Black men, in particular, young Black men. I think that her candidacy really threatens that. We're seeing her gain a lot of ground in states like Georgia that has a really large african american population. Trump, I think, had wanted to do well there, but we see Harris really making inroads. She had an event in Atlanta last week there.

Kousha Navidar: When you think about that swing from Trump to Harris, is it voters moving from him to her, or is it undecided to her, or Democrats deciding they will come out and vote now? We got a call earlier saying, I was going to vote third party, but then Harris was announced now more likely to vote Democrat. Is there any trend you can see? Can you break it down that way?

Nancy Cook: Yes, so that's a great question. I think that what we're seeing is not necessarily people moving from Trump to Harris. It's more that democratic voters who were feeling really lukewarm about Biden and who may not have turned out at all, who are just going to stay home because they were so fed up with both Biden and Trump, I think they're enthusiastic now, and they will go to the polls for Harris.

We're seeing that with Black voters, women, young people. It's part of the election as a turnout game. I think she will have a much more successful time turning the vote out that she needs than Biden did. What's interesting is that I talked to some Trump campaign people over the weekend. They have really been surprised by the level of enthusiasm for her. They're calling it, it's reminiscent of President Obama when he ran two times. I think that it makes him a little worried, quite frankly.

Kousha Navidar: I guess the big question is whether this is the start or a trend of a "honeymoon," something that will carry forward and grow or a temporary bounce, especially when you put it into that historical perspective. What do you think?

Nancy Cook: I think it's a little too early to say, but she's had a honeymoon period so far. I think that this week, she'll get a lot of attention because of the vice president pick, and she's going to do so many campaign rallies place and then in two weeks is the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. I think that that will be an exciting time for the party. People are feeling much more excited about that than they were a few weeks ago.

I think she's going to have this "honeymoon period" for at least the next three weeks. Then we'll see Harris on the stump, Trump on the stump. Do you know what I mean? I think it'll be a more direct comparison. When I've talked to Trump sources, I think that Trump himself feels very annoyed by the enthusiasm for Harris, how Obama-like it is. I think that it's thrown him off his game a little bit.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, if you have an opinion on the VP pick or the state of the race in general, give us a call. We're at 212-433-WNYC. You can call us or text us at that number. It's 212-433-9692. Got another VP text in here. It's Jonathan from Sunset park. He texts, "Is there evidence that a VP pick from a non-swing state can help in a swing-state? Like, could Beshear year help, say, Pennsylvania or Walz in Wisconsin? Nancy, what do you think about that?

Nancy Cook: Sure, these are centrist white men who would help balance the ticket, and they could appeal to voters in swing-states. I don't think that voters in Pennsylvania will have the same connection to them that they would to, say Governor Shapiro, who's a wildly popular politician in Pennsylvania. Yes, a just centrist political figure can certainly help in other swing states.

Kousha Navidar: While we're on the topic of swing states, can we break down which states exactly are included as swing states? We've mentioned Arizona so far. We've mentioned Pennsylvania. What others are there?

Nancy Cook: There's seven of them. Let's run through them. There's Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, and Nevada. Those are the ones. What is interesting about the Harris candidacy is that it has really changed the electoral map. The Biden campaign thought that they basically needed to win Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania to win. That was going to be his only path to victory given the fact that these other states were really trending towards Trump. There is a lot more renewed enthusiasm for Harris as we've talked about, and so it's put other states into play.

She could potentially win Georgia, which has a huge Black population. It has some young people. She could win Pennsylvania. A bunch of voters in Michigan were very unhappy with Biden over the Israel's war in Gaza. There's a huge Arab American population there. A lot of those people were planning on not supporting Biden. Now, Harris could potentially appeal to those people. It's really just changed what is possible, and her path to victory is much more expansive than his was.

Kousha Navidar: Does the polling indicate which issues will be key to this election? You mentioned a few just now. We've been going through everything from gun control to foreign policy. The economy, I imagine that one is large as well. Haven't really gotten into that yet. What does the polling indicate issues wise?

Nancy Cook: Immigration will be a big issue, the economy, abortion and reproductive rights. Gun control is very animated for both parties, and foreign policy, obviously. Usually, what we see in elections is that the economy is the most important issue. I think that we'll see a lot of that in this election, too. What's interesting is that poll that Bloomberg News and Morning Consult did showed that voters still in swing states still trust Trump more on the economy. In just like a week, we did the polling, basically five days after she became the presumptive nominee, she had already closed a bunch of ground with Trump on the economy. She was within five percentage points of him on trustworthiness of the economy.

She is not being tagged with voters anger about historically high inflation in the same way that Trump is, which is good for the Democratic Party. I think people really want to feel like their pocketbook issues are taken care of. That's what a lot of times people vote on. Can they afford groceries? Do they feel good about their jobs? Are they mad about gas prices? How do they feel about the cost of housing? That's so often what people vote on. I think that we'll see that in this election as well.

Kousha Navidar: Let's go to Deborah in Frankfurt, New Jersey. Sounds like you want to support Pete Buttigieg. Is that right, Deborah?

Deborah: Yes, I do. I'm very impressed with him in general, and I think in terms of electability, I know it's odd. There'd be a lot of odds against him, but wouldn't it be wonderful if we had a woman of color as president and a gay vice president? For the first time in history, there would actually be two first men for the vice presidency and the presidency. I think it would overall attract a huge amount of votes from the younger generation, from the LGBTQ community and women and everyone with a family who is not a cat person. [laughs] Whether you have children or not, we all hated what the opponent was saying about people in general. It was an insult to all our intelligence. In the event that we can't get Pete, yes, I'd be great with any of the other choices. I know they wouldn't consider a woman at this point, but if they did, I would be voting for Elizabeth Warren as vice president because I think she's an amazing person.

Kousha Navidar: Deborah, really appreciate your call, your reference to cat ladies. It would be welcoming for the identities, I suppose. Deborah, thanks so much. She brings up, Nancy, an important point about identity. Generally, it's the fact that Kamala Harris would be the first woman, the first Black woman, the first Asian American to become president. Donald Trump seems to think her identity is worth focusing on with his statements about her last week at the meeting of the National Association of Black Journalists. To bring it back to polling here, does polling indicate whether identity is an issue for voters?

Nancy Cook: I don't think it has been an issue so far. What is interesting is that Trump's adviser actually don't want him to get down in the gutter and talk about her race and gender. That is not what they want him to do. They want him to just focus on policy stuff and call her out for her role in handling immigration as vice president, call out the Biden Harris administration for its role in historically high inflation. They think those are effective messages. What he's doing and said is at this national association of Black journals, he questioned whether or not Harris was Black, even though she's biracial, and that is not what they want to do.

Based on my reporting, Trump has been so frustrated by his inability to land an effective attack line on her and also all the attention she's getting from the media and all this enthusiasm from voters that he is trying a bunch of attack lines himself with very mixed results. I think the other thing your caller brought up, she mentioned a bunch of different democratic politicians like Pete Buttigieg, Elizabeth Warren. One thing that has really made me think about this vetting process is the Democratic bench is very big. There's a lot of very talented politicians who are up and comers, who are governors in the Democratic Party.

I think that's very interesting to think about, both in the context of this election year, but also the next one in 2028. I think that there could be a bunch of interesting new people who could be running for president based on what happens this year.

Kousha Navidar: Trump had a rally in Atlanta and attacked the Republican Governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, saying, "He's a bad guy. He's a disloyal guy, and he's a very average governor." That got a rise from the former lieutenant governor on CNN's State of the Nation. We have that clip. Let's listen to it now.

Jeff Duncan: This is now starting to not be Donald Trump's problem. This is starting to be the Republican party's problem. We have to call him out for what he is. He's a felonist thug who walks down the street and throws sucker punches at people like Brian Kemp, like African American journalists, journalists like John McCain, and the list goes on and on and on again.

Kousha Navidar: That was Jeff Duncan in the clip. Nancy, you just were talking about the future of the Republican Party. Does fighting with a swing state governor make sense for the Trump campaign now? How does it look for the future?

Nancy Cook: It's not something that I think that campaign officials would want Trump to do. Governor Kemp in Georgia is a very popular governor. He is the head of the Republican Governors Association. People in Georgia really like him. I don't think that Trump's top campaign officials want Trump picking fights with Kemp. That's just not what they want him to do at all. He's mad at Kemp over refusing to overturn the results of the 2020 election. He can't let that go. When he was visiting Atlanta, it just came up. It came up several times on Saturday night.

This is a time when yet again, his top campaign advisors want him to be talking about inflation, immigration, and instead, he's doing these personal attacks on Kemp, on Harris. The fact that he's attacking members of his own party, I think other Republicans think that's very deeply unhelpful.

Kousha Navidar: I'm looking at time. Maybe one more question before we let you go. By the time the Democratic National Convention comes up later this month in Chicago, the VP candidate will have been picked. We're going to have the roll call already have happened. What do we expect to happen at the DNC?

Nancy Cook: The DNC basically is being remade as we speak, because originally they had plans or convention around Biden. Now, it's around Harris. They've had to remake the whole roster of speakers who speaks when, what they're going to be saying, who they're bringing in, what the themes are each night. Usually, how conventions go is that there are speeches Monday through Thursday night. Harris will talk Thursday. The vice president will talk Wednesday, typically. Then they have a bunch of other people who talk. They have normal people who talk.

They will probably have labor leaders. Senators will get speaking slots, potentially some business people. Usually, each night is some theme. One day they'll talk maybe about foreign policy, one day they talk about the economy. It's really a way for people to see who is supporting Harris and what her agenda is. I think it'll be probably a pretty jubilant convention just because people feel very enthusiastic about her and are relieved Biden is off the ticket. It will be an interesting moment to see who's in her corner.

Kousha Navidar: Speaking of that, what will Biden's role be there do you think?

Nancy Cook: Biden is going to go one night, and I assume he's going to be talking. He's not going to be given the huge overarching role that he would have been if he was the nominee.

Kousha Navidar: We'll have to leave it there for now. Thank you, Nancy Cook, senior national political correspondent for Bloomberg News. Really appreciate you coming on here.

Nancy Cook: Thanks so much for having me.

 

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