Brian Lehrer: Brain Lehrer on WNYC. Now another appearance by a candidate in the New York City mayoral primary to answer my questions and yours. Today, it's Democratic State Senator Jessica Ramos of Queens. Her district is in north-central Queens, Elmhurst and East Elmhurst, Corona, Jackson Heights. Her campaign website leads with the line that ''In our city, there is room for everyone.'' Her bio page that comes after that says she's a proud daughter of Colombian immigrants and that growing up in Astoria, she learned the values of hard work, community, and resilience from her parents, who faced every challenge with grit and determination. The site promises a new day for New York City, mentioning five ways she would try to make it that. A new day of affordable housing for all, safe and reliable public transit, protections for all workers, a clean and resilient future, and a new day in which universal childcare and quality education are non-negotiable. We'll talk about the campaign with Senator Ramos and also touch on some of the news the governor and legislature are making in Albany right now. There's a bunch of that as it's the new legislative season in the last couple of weeks and also the impact of Trump deportation program so far in her heavily immigrant district. Senator Ramos, nice to have you back on the show. Welcome back to WNYC.

Senator Jessica Ramos: Good morning, Brian. It's great to be back.

Brian Lehrer: The first page of your campaign website, which simply says, ''The fight for the heart and soul of New York City begins today. In our city, there's room for everybody.'' Are you saying with room for everybody, bring on the immigrants, no matter how many?

Senator Ramos: I'm saying that in our city, we are so diverse and dependent on so many different groups of New Yorkers that we are fighting for a city where no one feels like they should have to leave because they can't find the quality of life they're searching for here. Immigrants have traditionally been our competitive edge. Immigrants are good for our economy. Our small business businesses especially rely on a lot of immigrant labor. What we should be asking for is cooperation from the federal government and from the state government in order to keep us all safe.

Brian Lehrer: I imagine you would disagree with the way Mayor Adams has spoken about the number of recent arrivals in the last three years. If it's really been around 200,000, which is the number that I think I see people-- as we generally hear many people think like the mayor might say, ''Hey, I'm a pro-immigration New Yorker, city of immigrants, but that's just too many, too fast for a city budget for low-income New Yorkers already here who depend on budgeted services for already too limited housing supply, supply and demand, it would push up housing costs even more. So many came not through the usual channels when so many others are stuck waiting in line.

We need more control over that. That characterizes the Eric Adams position, I think, and maybe what some decent percentage of the city would say. What would you say in response to that?

Santor Ramos: That he set the tone by saying early on that the influx of migrants would destroy New York City. He proceeded to paint a picture for New Yorkers for the many coming months that really supported that statement. I think for a long time even if we were to go back all the way to Fiorello La Guardia, who was a mayor who was beloved by New Yorkers and whose legacy we respect greatly, was precisely because he aimed to create entry points into the economy for so many immigrants through public markets, for example, the equivalent today being street vendors.

Street vending is something that can be done without having a work permit. I think there were different ways to handle the unexpected challenge. 200,000 migrants make a great difference in all of the challenges, of course, that we've already had. We could have fostered a narrative that was much more supportive and should have kicked us into high gear on all of those office conversions in Manhattan in making sure we're helping landlords with the repairs needed to free up more apartments in the market, starting with NYCHA as the landlord ourselves.

There was just a different approach that could have been taken. We have to remember many of these migrants came by bus, sent here against their will by Governor Abbott from Texas. New York City was not the intended dest for many of them. Yet, of course, we want to do the right thing because that's what New Yorkers do. We're hard workers and want to do the right thing and we want to help. We could have done that in a much more orderly fashion, establishing systems where there haven't been traditionally or for a long time because this is also likely not the last migrant influx.

This is the history of the human race, migration, and we do it for all sorts of reasons. For economic reasons, now for climate change reasons. New York is going to have to step up and really stop dilly-dallying with a lot of these challenges that we have. I mentioned affordable housing already, but also in terms of climate change and resiliency so that we can protect our housing stock and build smarter for tomorrow. I would have done things very differently.

I would have wanted to help people revalidate their careers here quicker and make sure that they were contributing in a way that really allowed them to have dignity and not allow for voids left for bad actors to fill, which is now what we've seen, particularly in my district on Roosevelt Avenue for the past year, plus, where we've seen very, very serious big gangs take advantage of women, exploiting them for prostitution and hurting also the street vendors themselves who end up having to pay for protection.

I should mention that I'm actually today calling from the 115 Precinct in Jackson Heights, my hometown precinct, where I was just meeting our new commanding officer. We're hoping that there is an understanding, actually, that we can use our discretion even on criminal summonses, particularly because they can lead to deportation proceedings. They appear on an immigration record, and of course, many offenses are very, very serious and we have to take them on with the severity that they merit.

Some of them, like street vending, which is honest work, should be something that ferments creativity and should be able to generate sales tax revenue for the city of New York.

Brian Lehrer: Well, on that point, since you brought up some of the criminal activity issues in your district and in Jackson Heights in particular, which have been in the news, the list of new day promises on your campaign website that I read from at the top does not include a new day for public safety or any reference to violent crime as a top priority. Now, it's arguable that the number one reason that Mayor Adams was elected to run New York in 2021 was public safety. Why didn't you center that in addition to housing and childcare and the other things that you did?

Senator Ramos: Health and hospitals is also something that is really important to me and to the vision I have for our city. Those are actually intertwined for me when it comes to public safety. I put out my plan called Harmony NYC that really aims to upskill EMS and EMT workers so that we can be much more deliberate about addressing mental health emergencies and hopefully relying on preventive measures so that we can all feel safe on the subway, on the street, anywhere we are.

Ultimately, and there's always a lot of debate what to do with people who are causing discord or who seem unstable, are struggling with severe mental illness. I think the biggest challenge we have above all is where to put these folks. The answer can't be Rikers. It hasn't been working for a very long time. People have been getting hurt there. People have been dying on Rikers Island, and it's supposed to close by law by 2027. I don't know that we're on the path to do that. Remember, there's a certain former governor who closed down most of our mental health institutions.

That's really at the crux of what we need in order to ensure safety for all New Yorkers. We want to prevent people from hurting themselves and hurting other people. We're going to need to build a workforce pipeline with mental health professionals who are going to be out on the street, but also to, of course, staff and reopen a lot of these mental health institutions after we refurbish them so that there are safe places for those who are struggling to go, sometimes short term, sometimes very long term. What's important is that we tackle the problem, which is severe mental health, and that there are the resources to do so responsibly and sustainably.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take some candidate questions from you for New York City Democratic mayoral primary candidate Jessica Ramos, state Senator from Queens. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. As we continue to invite all the major candidates running for mayor of New York and governor of New Jersey this year. You can also ask about state policy things like are coming from the governor. We'll get to one or two of those, or the response to the Trump administration so far as they pertain to New York State or New York City. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Let's take one right now. Laurie in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, Laurie.

Laurie Kellogg: Hi. Jessica, hi, it's Laurie Kellogg. How are you?

Senator Ramos: Hey, Laurie, how are you? Great to hear from you.

Brian Lehrer: It doesn't seem like you need me to broker a conversation between the two of you, but go ahead, Laurie.

Laurie Kellogg: Right. Give me a minute on this. Jessica, you know I've contributed for 35 years to improving the lives of workers and immigrants in this city as well as supporting progressive politicians. Now, I'm the one on a limited income. I'm the one struggling to hang onto my house. I'm older now, and so I have turned to like other people, short-term rental of an extra room in my house. That is how I'm currently surviving the exploding costs of New York City. I don't want to be thrown out of the city because I can't pay these escalating costs.

I want to know how it could be the right of the city to tell me in my little home, one and two-family homeowners only because I'm very opposed to the big guys renting and housing off the market. I'm a strong supporter of working-class people, but how is it the city's right to tell me I can't host my neighbor's mother coming to help with the kids this week? Or poor artists who are helping the exploding Brooklyn art scene? Or working-class people from around the world, musicians, labor activists, students who are considering moving to New York? They need a cheap place to stay.

Brian Lehrer: Laurie, let me cut in and get you an answer for listeners who don't know this is about the cities, what's usually considered an Airbnb ban in most circumstances. I know that's being revisited in city council right now. It sounds like, Senator Ramos, that you're on the other side of this from Laurie. Is that true?

Senator Ramos: For the listeners, it's Bill Intro 1107 in the New York City Council. For those who want to read it. I agree with Laurie in that there is great fear of the big bad guys coming in and scooping up so much of the affordable housing stock that is available. I think that this bill really makes us put our thinking caps on about how we can help the small homeowners, but make sure we're keeping the bad people out. Look, the other side of this is we of course want to make sure that we're protecting the hotel workers, which is a big industry here in our city, a very important one.

I want to be able to understand. Can I ask, Laurie, since we know each other, I hope you don't mind? Why would you rather do a small short-term rental over a long-term rental if you have the space?

Laurie Kellogg: Good question. My brother's going to come and stay with me for two months because he needs housing. My son may come back and he needs housing. I have friends, relatives, whatever, and my neighbor has a mom who's helping with the kids and can't pay $400 to stay in Manhattan when her grandkids are in Brooklyn. I'm only taking the bottom of the barrel of poor people. Some poor public school teacher from Oklahoma who's not going to stay in a $ 400-a-night hotel. I'm not threatening the hotel industry.

I'm not hurting the hotel workers. That is a bunch of propaganda. The truth is, I'm only talking about small one and two-family night. There's something really important I need to say, Jessica, can you imagine me going into Brad's house or Mayor de Blasio's house or anyone's house and telling you that you have to put someone in your living room or your extra bedroom? I don't want a permanent person, especially someone who has the right to move into my house permanently. There's a safety issue here.

Brian Lehrer: Laurie, I'm going to leave it there. Senator Ramos, one more time to Laurie, and then I want to move on to some other callers and some other things.

Senator Ramos: Yes, thanks for the question. Hopefully, there is room for that to be figured out at the city level right now. Again, I want to reiterate that there's a big difference between the big guys and the little guys. I've even met homeowners who are interested in renting out their own bedroom while they're away on vacation themselves. Those are definitely not all of the same things. I think that bill might be entirely going too far wide and we would have to really zero in on the details and make sure that we're making the right distinctions.

Brian Lehrer: Laurie, thank you for your call. Among the things we're doing in this first half of the year, with June primaries coming up in both New York and New Jersey, is interviewing all the major candidates in the primaries for both mayor of New York and governor of New Jersey. State Senator Jessica Ramos of Elmhurst, East Elmhurst, Corona, and Jackson Heights, running for the Democratic nomination for mayor is our guest right now. I want to go on to something that's state policy-related and Trump response-related.

As a member of the state legislature, I'm sure you know there's this debate around Governor Hochul's positioning so far with respect to Trump. It seems as if she's beginning to run for her own reelection next year in a way that she's not trying to respond to every provocative thing Trump does. I think she put it that way, but rather trying to show that Democrats can address the issues that got Trump elected, notably the cost of living and public safety better than he can. Is that how you see the governor so far this year? If so, what do you think of that approach?

Senator Ramos: I think if we were responding to every Trump shenanigan, that would be a full-time job within and of itself. She's got a state to run. We've all got a job to do. I think for her, she's focused on the budget negotiations that have now officially begun. Our legislative session is going into full swing. We've already outlined lots of challenges that we're facing in the city, and certainly, a lot of those are felt across the state. I'm hoping to work with her in order to really address a lot of the budget pitfalls that we're not going to be expecting from the federal government.

Maybe yes, maybe no. The uncertainty itself is something that needs to be planned for. I think that anxiety is being felt by every New Yorker not knowing exactly what's going to happen. I think over the next four years, we're going to become legal apprentices because we're just going to see a lot of whiplash with a lot of laws back and forth. It's unfortunate because we're talking about people's lives, not just words on a page. These have deep-rooted impacts on the LGBTQ community with all of the attacks on transgender people.

I imagine at some point they may fiddle with a woman's reproductive rights as well, nevermind education and certainly Medicare and all of the things that the poorest among us really depend on. There are more working poor and working people struggling to enter the middle class and stay there than ever before. This is why it's so important that there are labor standards attached to our missions, to really deliver on better outcomes on housing and health and our general safety.

Brian Lehrer: What might you be doing if you were mayor today on this issue that is of how to respond to all the things that Trump is doing that's the same or different from whatever Mayor Adams has been doing so far since you're running for mayor?

Senator Ramos: Kathy Hochul's still going to be governor on January 1st, 2026, and together we'll have to work closer more than ever. We as a city already depend on Albany for the funding for a lot of the things that hold dear. Also where we want to see expanded investments, whether it's child care, which is of course going to require additional funding for our Department of Education and all the interagency supports that are needed to build out that program, which Mayor Adams has played a lot of games with when it comes to particularly 3-K.

We want to at least get to 2-Care, if not further. I think she should be able to find a partner in me like never before so that we can both show New Yorkers that the Democratic Party is here to stay and has a strong backbone to face Donald Trump in all of his graven mistakes and displays of inhumanity, and bigotry, but at the same time that we're going to make the case that if what they care about is money and the economy, that actually a lot of these things are very good for the economy. I think the difference is where we are now, seeing a presidential administration that is completely put up by an oligarchy of big corporations.

We're here to say, as the most important city next to Washington, D.C. in our nation, that as its economic engine, we're going to need to recognize that New Yorkers are a donor city, a donor state, and we deserve our fair share to address the challenges because our city is growing, it's going to keep growing, and it's going to be the best city in the world again.

Brian Lehrer: You say put up by an oligarchy, but is there a lesson for the Democratic Party to learn in that Trump got a majority of the votes from people making under $50,000 a year, according to the exit polls?

Senator Ramos: I think the last election in which I also was reelected resoundingly, I didn't have a primary, I didn't have a general. Also, I had actually never received so many votes before. In the areas of my district that moved to the right for the presidential election, those voters also voted for me. I think people just want to have elected officials who understand how tough life is right now in so many different respects, beginning with the economic one, because the economic impacts the mental.

Let me tell you, if you're worried about making rent, that anxiety can really trigger a lot of the worst responses in a human being, and this is why I'm gonna get on my mental health soapbox. It's just so important for us to destigmatize it, but ultimately, we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing and that we're showing people that government can work and that they should believe in their public institutions again.

Brian Lehrer: We've got three minutes left before we run out of time. Let me get one more caller in for you. Here is Rick in Astoria, who I think wants to disagree with the way you elevated street vendors earlier. Rick, you're on WNYC with Senator Jessica Ramos running for mayor. Hi.

Rick: Hi. Thank you for taking my call today. I did want to reference a call that I had with Jessica a few years back on your show, Brian. I'm a small business owner in Astoria. I'm also the founder and board member for the Destination Ditmars Merchants Association. I also work with Queens Together, which is local aid agency. Our members consist of local small businesses and restaurants. Jessica, quite frankly, you're not qualified to become mayor. You were MIA during the COVID crisis when it came to small businesses.

I reached out to you, spoke to Esther and Mary in your office, attempting to make an appointment to speak with you to try to get some sort of response from your office during the pandemic.

Brian Lehrer: And Rick, forgive me, I'm going to cut in because we are going to run out of time. Another caller who doesn't seem to need this show in order to contact you, but to the particular point of street vendors and the way that the brick and mortar business owners who apparently the caller represents. I don't remember that previous call. Apparently, the caller feels is unfair competition.

Senator Ramos: This is an argument that I have heard about street vending often from all sorts of different types of brick and mortars. I understand where they're coming from because they have to pay for all sorts of other things, starting with rent and insurance, and are subject to all sorts of inspections. This is why I believe again that there should be an actual vending system to not only license vendors, but to make sure that they're certified to sell, especially when we're talking about food. Merchandise is another thing, but also so that there's a responsibility and a flow in our streets that's fair for everybody.

I think that's something that can be done by bringing all of the different stakeholders to the table. Look, I do remember this particular neighbor, Rick from Astoria. I'm very sorry that he had that experience. Lots of other businesses and especially my neighbors who were flooded with their residential homes were something that were a big priority for us given that we had people almost drown nearby in other neighborhoods. We definitely have limited capacity in a Senate office.

I am actually running for mayor precisely because I would like to be able to command a bigger team to be much more responsive to New Yorkers' issues. You can talk to my neighbors in East Elmhurst about how we were able to help them and save their homes.

Brian Lehrer: We're at the end of our scheduled time. Let me ask you to stay one more minute to ask one last question similar to what I asked Brad Lander as a candidate at the end when he was on the other day because we have had some other progressive mayoral hopefuls on this month as well, Lander and Zohran Mamdani. This would probably apply to Zellnor Myrie too. How would you tell voters that you would be a better mayor than them since I think you would agree on most issues?

Senator Ramos: Well, I believe that what sets me apart is my experience and my record. I'm the only candidate in this race that has already worked at City Hall and understands an interagency approach to administrating the city. It's not just about being someone with good ideas. It's about someone who is able to implement them and can step up to take on the responsibility in moments of crisis and all of the time in between. I love my city. I want the opportunity to earn every New Yorker's vote because I want to build on the record that I have in already addressing affordability in the last six years that I've spent in the State Senate with worker protections, raising the minimum wage and tying it to inflation, and really fighting for working families, because I come from a working family and I'm still a working family. I want to be able to really make sure that this city works for us and for everyone.

Brian Lehrer: State Senator Jessica Ramos of Queens, now a candidate in the Democratic primary for mayor of New York. Senator, we appreciate your time, and I think we're going to have time for at least one more round with all the candidates. We'll talk to you again fairly soon, I hope.

Senator Ramos: Thank you so much, Brian. I'll be happy to come back.

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